Turbine DOES Listen. Examples:

[Cauthey]

I got stirred up in another thread. An opinion that "Turbine does not listen" was expressed. I believed this opinion to be patently false, and I set out to gather some facts. Below are some of the examples of Turbine hearing the players and acting upon the players desires. These are in no particular order:


Players: We want more upper level and epic content!
Turbine:
Menace of the Underdark, coming June 25th (Epic levels 21-25) (http://underdark.ddo.com/)
Update 11: Secrets of the Artificers (3 new quests, 2 new raids) (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Release_Notes_Update_11_Official#Of_Special_Note:)
Update 13: Web of Chaos (3 new F2P quests, including epics) (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Release_Notes_Update_13_Official#Of_Special_Note)


Players: How do you expect us to send bug reports when half the time the in-game bug reporting tool doesn't even work?!
Turbine: We made changes! (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=367157)


Players: We hate the Enchancement UI!
Turbine: We hate it, too! (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=357100)


Players: Give us some bonuses!
Turbine:
DDO Bonus Days! (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=4374120)
DDO Bonus Days! (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=4365587)
DDO Bonus Days! (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=4354073)
DDO'S SUPER WEEK! (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=360021)


Players: MyDDO Character Log not appearing after update!
Turbine: Quick fix! (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=4373001#post4373001)


Players: We want to play Druids!
Turbine: Introducing the Druid! (http://underdark.ddo.com/druid)


Players: Here are all of these broken things! (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=363607)
Turbine: Fixes coming / we're working on it. (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=4359759#post4359759)


Player: I want a Unicorn Mount!
Turbine: Princess Celestia does not approve. (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=4358087#post4358087)


Players: We want an epic Abbot raid! It is not hard enough, already, as it is!
Turbine: Be glad I'm not a content developer. (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=4350265#post4350265)


Players: I didn't get my Cake and/or Pre-Purchase Goodies!
Turbine: 70+ individually directed posts saying "We will take care of you." (http://forums.ddo.com/search.php?do=process&query=cakes&titleonly=1&showposts=1&searchuser=tolero)


Players: Are eChrono scrolls dropping post U13?
Turbine: Looks like an issue. We're investigating. (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=4344678#post4344678)


Players: Can you make the cursor easier to see?
Turbine: We're working on it. (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=4339708#post4339708)


Players: We are tired of grinding for the gear we want!
Turbine: Special end reward lists after three completions. (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Release_Notes_Update_13_Official#Quests.2C_Challen ges.2C_and_Adventure_Areas)


Players: Could we get a Dev Diary or ...
Turbine: The Art of Lolth (http://www.ddo.com/en/ddogameinfo/developer-diaries/1905-the-art-of-lolth)



So, there you are. Turbine truly is powered by its fans. Turbine is powered by me. *spin!* *spin!*

[Cauthey]

MOAR listening:


Player: Teleport Icon Upgrade (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=3832052)
Turbine: Hmmm I wouldn't be surprised if I were to see this in the next Update (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=4012282#post4012282)


Player: I propose that Mari now give three small bags: Gem, Collectable, and now - Ingredient. (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=322828)
Turbine: House Cannith's Fabricators Guild NPCs in the Harbor and Marketplace now give Tiny Ingredient Bags to players when one of them is first visited. (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Release_Notes_Update_10_Patch_1_Official#NPCs)


Players: Suggestion: Lets have the ability to retain tomes after a TR (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=355560)
Turbine: Ability Tome benefits are now preserved after True Reincarnation. (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Release_Notes_Update_13_Official#Reincarnation)


Players: FIX LAG
Turbine: Probable fix incoming! (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=4376821#post4376821)


Players: Madstone Boots change...why? (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=359437)
Turbine: Madstone Rage will not be changing with U13 (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=4293532&highlight=madstone#post4293532)


Players: The Shroud grind stinks!
Turbine: Now moar chests on hard and elite, and materials on end reward! (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Release_Notes_Update_12_Official#The_Vale_of_Twili ght)


Players: Shroud blades are too hurty and miserable!
Turbine: Presenting The Shroud, now with new and improved softer, more compassionate blades. (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Release_Notes_Update_13_Official#The_Shroud)


Players: Let us choose to have Metamagic On a spell! (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=3452700#post3452700)
Turbine: Metamagic feats can now be applied to specific spells. (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Release_Notes_Update_11_Official#Spells)


Players: This new UI sucks! I can't see! I can't heal! (Response to new UI changes in Update 11 (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Release_Notes_Update_11_Official#UI_Improvements))
Turbine: Changed, based on player feedback. (Update 11, Patch 1) (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Release_Notes_Update_11_Patch_1_Official#UI_Improv ements)


Players: We want Greensteel Deconstruction!
Turbine: One of my designers is...<snip>...creating a partial-deconstruction system (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=4227635#post4227635)

[JohnRove]

Those posts prove nothing. They only show that Turbine fixes problems people complain about if it is already in the cards for them to do so, or if it will make them money in the DDO store. I see no mention in any of those threads about the numerous requests to add <Insert Random OP Feat/Item/Race/Class> to the game. You, sir are nothing but a Turbine fanboy who will find any shred of "evidence" to back up your baseless claims of responding to customer complaints.

[Memnir]

They do indeed listen. My two examples: example one (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=3832052#post3832052), example two (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=322828)

They just don't take every suggestion or request. But, over time, I've noticed that a lot of things players have asked for repeatedly here on the forums pop up in game eventually. It just takes a while, and an idea that makes the game better for all - not just the person asking for a certain thing.

[Qzipoun]

Ironic from someone who has "FIX LAG" in their forum signature...

Edit: And now he changes it :rolleyes:

[HungarianRhapsody]

We want TWF style users to not have an offhand proc for tactical abilities because that would make them too much more powerful than THF.
Granted!

We want monks to have only one use of a tactical ability instead of two (with a possibility of a doublestrike third use) because it's important for Monks to not stun more enemies than a Barbarian could.
Granted!

We want to use clickies and torches in challenges/cove while wearing our Madstone boots.
Granted!

We want Favored Souls to lose their wings in raids because that's the part that is really overpowered.
Granted!

Peacemaker had too few HP on Lamannia. It should have at least 100,000 HP so that we can really savor and enjoy that end fight.
Granted!

Non-endgame raid bosses don't have enough HP. Their HP should be increased by at least 50% so that we don't get bored by those raids on our capped, epic geared characters. Because beating on the exact same boss for 50% longer will much more exciting that the way that the raid currently works.
Granted!

[Cauthey]

Thank you, Memnir, for your contributions to the list. :D


Those posts prove nothing. They only show that Turbine fixes problems people complain about if it is already in the cards for them to do so, or if it will make them money in the DDO store. I see no mention in any of those threads about the numerous requests to add <Insert Random OP Feat/Item/Race/Class> to the game. You, sir are nothing but a Turbine fanboy who will find any shred of "evidence" to back up your baseless claims of responding to customer complaints.

Those are not all purely complaints. But, as I stated in the OP, I was responding to the claim that "Turbine does not listen." On the contrary, Turbine is listening. And they are making efforts to communicate better with the player community.

Call me a fanboy, or fanboi. I'll wear it as a badge of pride. :D Turbine folks are the proprietors of a great product. And I dare say that if their product wasn't great, you wouldn't be here.


Ironic from someone who has "FIX LAG" in their forum signature...

Not ironic, at all. Turbine is listening. Nonetheless, I leave FIX LAG in my signature file as a reminder that we players are suffering from the latency issues that make some raids neigh playable. But, I have faith that Turbine is making progress (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=4376821#post4376821) with these issues.

[Monkey-Boy]

We want TWF style users to not have an offhand proc for tactical abilities because that would make them too much more powerful than THF.
Granted!

We want monks to have only one use of a tactical ability instead of two (with a possibility of a doublestrike third use) because it's important for Monks to not stun more enemies than a Barbarian could.
Granted!

We want to use clickies and torches in challenges/cove while wearing our Madstone boots.
Granted!

We want Favored Souls to lose their wings in raids because that's the part that is really overpowered.
Granted!

Peacemaker had too few HP on Lamannia. It should have at least 100,000 HP so that we can really savor and enjoy that end fight.
Granted!

Non-endgame raid bosses don't have enough HP. Their HP should be increased by at least 50% so that we don't get bored by those raids on our capped, epic geared characters. Because beating on the exact same boss for 50% longer will much more exciting that the way that the raid currently works.
Granted!

I wish this would fit in my signature.

[Bakarne]

I bet you I can get Turbine to stop reading this thread with only one word.

Abbot

Lock thread now - nothing to see here.

[grayham]

Thanks for compiling this Cauthey, will +1 when I can next. I think Turbine have really responded well to user feedback and I get sick of all the whinge posts and absence of 'thankyou' threads.

See also response to player feedback on Madstone Boots both in terms of actually suggested changes (allowing madstoned players to run torches in challenges!) and suspension due to feedback on said changes.

[Cauthey]

See also response to player feedback on Madstone Boots both in terms of actually suggested changes (allowing madstoned players to run torches in challenges!) and suspension due to feedback on said changes.

Gyeah. You're going to make me hunt those threads, too, aren't you? :p :D

[Aeolwind]

Turbine listens, they just have:

1) Selective Hearing
2) Bad Hearing Aid Batteries
3) AT&T as a cell phone carrier
4) Actual Turbines in their office producing noise


Any of the above 4 will work!

All joking aside, I think they are trying much harder thanks to the efforts of Floyd, 404Error, MajMal & crew. Var, FoS, Kookie, et al have been stellar with communications recently and I for one appreciate it.

[Cauthey]

I bet you I can get Turbine to stop reading this thread with only one word.

Abbot

Lock thread now - nothing to see here.

LOL! :D

I think that they are reely TRYING to make Abbot mo bettah. I didn't want to list that one in here just yet. :p

[Ravoc-DDO]

Still doesn't list "Brought the game back into balance". /fail

[KainLionheart]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i308/Tevez_2006/i_like_this_sticker-p217154438548739863z85xz_400.jpg

[Aeolwind]

I bet you I can get Turbine to stop reading this thread with only one word.

Abbot

Lock thread now - nothing to see here.

Handwraps
Handwraps
Handwraps

5p says MadFloyd appears....to beat me.

[Cauthey]

Turbine listens, they just have:

1) Selective Hearing
2) Bad Hearing Aid Batteries
3) AT&T as a cell phone carrier
4) Actual Turbines in their office producing noise


Any of the above 4 will work!

All joking aside, I think they are trying much harder thanks to the efforts of Floyd, 404Error, MajMal & crew. Var, FoS, Kookie, et al have been stellar with communications recently and I for one appreciate it.

They have to be at least somewhat selective. If they were to act on every suggestion (even the good ones) that every player makes, they would spiral out of control with no composed direction, and the game would end up becoming something that nobody can be happy with. Further, catering to every single players' whims (or, even just the forum's 5%) would eat up all of their time, and they would not be able to keep meeting their aggressive content schedule.

If they turn off the hearing aids when I start talking, that's fine. :D But, I really do not believe that they are doing that.

[KookieKobold]

Lurked by a Dev.

[Aeolwind]

They have to be at least somewhat selective. If they were to act on every suggestion (even the good ones) that every player makes, they would spiral out of control with no composed direction, and the game would end up becoming something that nobody can be happy with. Further, catering to every single players' whims (or, even just the forum's 5%) would eat up all of their time, and they would not be able to keep meeting their aggressive content schedule.

If they turn off the hearing aids when I start talking, that's fine. :D But, I really do not believe that they are doing that.

I'm a firm believer that community can provide ideas for direction & content but should never be a driving force in development. That is like leaving the fox to guard the hen house. I think some of the ideas they've acted upon recently are silly, but not to the point where I've been ready to hang up my cod piece. I like the fact that FoS has been speaking on things they won't be doing. There needs to be more of that. I dub it the 'FOSlap'.

[smatt]

Of course they listen...... They just listen to the wrong people :D

[Lifespawn]

how about any mention of read by a dev on that healing amp and other stuff on the char screen thread?

[Raithe]

I'm a firm believer that community can provide ideas for direction & content but should never be a driving force in development. That is like leaving the fox to guard the hen house. I think some of the ideas they've acted upon recently are silly, but not to the point where I've been ready to hang up my cod piece. I like the fact that FoS has been speaking on things they won't be doing. There needs to be more of that. I dub it the 'FOSlap'.

This deserves quoting and emphasizing.

I don't think I would have spent very much time at all with DDO or posting on the forums if it didn't seem like the entire direction of the game was continually up for public debate. I suppose it's been very interesting watching the game waffle too and fro, but I think I ultimately would have preferred a miserable failure or an epic success to the luke-warm mixture of horrible blunders and delightful designs.

I don't know why people want Turbine to be "listening." I just want them to design the game they want to play themselves. (Of course, the problem has probably always been they don't agree amongst themselves...)

[voodoogroves]

Of course they listen...... They just listen to the wrong people :D

Heh ... the changes that have been made at the insistence of a very vocal minority ...

I can think of a couple .. you?

[Claransa]

Those posts prove nothing. They only show that Turbine fixes problems people complain about if it is already in the cards for them to do so, or if it will make them money in the DDO store. I see no mention in any of those threads about the numerous requests to add <Insert Random OP Feat/Item/Race/Class> to the game. You, sir are nothing but a Turbine fanboy who will find any shred of "evidence" to back up your baseless claims of responding to customer complaints.

Always a laugh to hear from the hate turbine/anti store crowd because nothing ever pleases you.

[MeliCat]

Lurked by a Dev.

OOOOH!! It's a Kookie!!

I like positive threads like these. Thank you... am at work and distracted atm... but I'll come back and add some stuff in a bit. Thanks Cauthey :D

[Jay203]

dear people
please be able to distinguish between "listening" and "obeying"

turbine listens, doesn't necessarily mean they'll obey your every demand

[Mattytron]

I accidentally purchased the expansion pack on a tester account I made quite some time ago instead of the account my multi-life TR is on. I panicked when I realized it and called their customer support. The CSR was amazing friendly and fixed my SNAFU in a matter of minutes. I give Turbine HUGE props for that. Every MMORPG has it's bugs and tweaks, but overall I'd judge Turbine to be trying to give us what we ask for. You can't please everybody all the time but I'd have to say for the diverse group that plays this game they do try to accommodate the different factions as well as they can.

[Qzipoun]

dear people
please be able to distinguish between "listening" and "obeying"

turbine listens, doesn't necessarily mean they'll obey your every demand

please be able to distinguish between "listening" and "hearing"

turbine hears, doesn't necessarily mean they'll listen to our every 'demand'

[Aeolwind]

please be able to distinguish between "listening" and "hearing"

turbine hears, doesn't necessarily mean they'll listen to our every 'demand'

I think a frustrating piece is that things 'we' want them to listen to are sometimes overshadowed out of necessity rather than wanton disregard. Development may have a path they are on, and when a good suggestion or idea comes down the pipe from us, it might not be feasible to fit it onto that path.

Would be nice to have a 'dev thread' of things we offer up that might be in consideration? We have a known issues thread, why not a dope improvement thread?

[Orratti]

I'm pretty sure they've used a couple of my suggestions before or adapted them.

[Cauthey]

Always a laugh to hear from the hate turbine/anti store crowd because nothing ever pleases you.

Actually, on my second look, it would appear that Mr. JohnRove made those statements if only to yank my chain. :p :D

And if not, well... then he owes me a Spell Storing Ring. :D

[Jay203]

please be able to distinguish between "listening" and "hearing"

turbine hears, doesn't necessarily mean they'll listen to our every 'demand'

oh, i know the difference, do you? :D:D:D:D

[TekkenDevil]

Me: "Cleric Hirelings are undisputably THE most broken things in the game right now."
Turbine: "One person tested it and it worked TOTALLY fine for him."

Me: "Necro II crypt has a graphical bug that causes minifreezes in your game if you have a certain graphics option turned on. I'm not even sure if this is healthy for my hardware, and I hate changing graphical settings in-game without a restart. Can you please fix it?"
Turbine: *Chirp chirp chirp*

Me: "Please make unpopular adventure packs relevant again. The same way you nerfed Gianthold, you need to buff Sorrowdusk, Restless Isles and Threnal."
Turbine: "We don't really care about that, though.

Me: "Please fix Abbot. Like... completely. Just... just fix it. Please?"
Turbine: "Well we almost did, but then we accidentally broke it even further, so we gave up."

Me: "Please stop breaking so much **** with every update.
Turbine: "Nah, we'll just pretend it's impossible to do a good job, even with our own code that we should know inside out after all these years. It's easier to just hide behind the word MMO and let everyone think that makes it super hard to develop for."


You'd think your average DDO Update, 5 or so years after the start of the game, would be done in better quality than SWTOR on release date.

[Uma-Quixote]

Its not a question of "listening" or "not listening"....Frankly I don't care if suggestions about monks, Dungeons and hit points etc are taken up or not...
What I care about is that the game works as it is supposed to...that it isn't a bug-ridden lag-fest. That bugs can be fixed, lag resolved BEFORE more and more content is released (which ALWAYS creates more lag and more bugs)

Other games seem to manage this

Why can't this one?

If Turbine are actually listening, perhaps they could explain the above.

[Camarde]

Those posts prove nothing. They only show that Turbine fixes problems people complain about if it is already in the cards for them to do so, or if it will make them money in the DDO store. I see no mention in any of those threads about the numerous requests to add <Insert Random OP Feat/Item/Race/Class> to the game. You, sir are nothing but a Turbine fanboy who will find any shred of "evidence" to back up your baseless claims of responding to customer complaints.

/agreed

[Candela90]

We want TWF style users to not have an offhand proc for tactical abilities because that would make them too much more powerful than THF.
Granted!

We want monks to have only one use of a tactical ability instead of two (with a possibility of a doublestrike third use) because it's important for Monks to not stun more enemies than a Barbarian could.
Granted!

We want to use clickies and torches in challenges/cove while wearing our Madstone boots.
Granted!

We want Favored Souls to lose their wings in raids because that's the part that is really overpowered.
Granted!

Peacemaker had too few HP on Lamannia. It should have at least 100,000 HP so that we can really savor and enjoy that end fight.
Granted!

Non-endgame raid bosses don't have enough HP. Their HP should be increased by at least 50% so that we don't get bored by those raids on our capped, epic geared characters. Because beating on the exact same boss for 50% longer will much more exciting that the way that the raid currently works.
Granted!


+1 xD
But I hate most of these changes (well... maybe torches are not bad :D). All of them.
But I still feel that nerfing ptp classes is pure stealing.
Some people payed for them, and Turbine changed them AFTER the buy.
Its like selling little child a piece of cake, and then taking out creme after child payed ;p



And THIS:

Of course they listen...... They just listen to the wrong people :D

[Melt-emi]

Me: "Cleric Hirelings are undisputably THE most broken things in the game right now."
Turbine: "One person tested it and it worked TOTALLY fine for him."

Me: "Necro II crypt has a graphical bug that causes minifreezes in your game if you have a certain graphics option turned on. I'm not even sure if this is healthy for my hardware, and I hate changing graphical settings in-game without a restart. Can you please fix it?"
Turbine: *Chirp chirp chirp*

Me: "Please make unpopular adventure packs relevant again. The same way you nerfed Gianthold, you need to buff Sorrowdusk, Restless Isles and Threnal."
Turbine: "We don't really care about that, though.

Me: "Please fix Abbot. Like... completely. Just... just fix it. Please?"
Turbine: "Well we almost did, but then we accidentally broke it even further, so we gave up."

Me: "Please stop breaking so much **** with every update.
Turbine: "Nah, we'll just pretend it's impossible to do a good job, even with our own code that we should know inside out after all these years. It's easier to just hide behind the word MMO and let everyone think that makes it super hard to develop for."


You'd think your average DDO Update, 5 or so years after the start of the game, would be done in better quality than SWTOR on release date.

+1, still causing tons of bugs after each update, real nonsense.

[Silverleafeon]

They tend to listen even more if one is polite to them...

(Most humans have this tendancy, by the way.)

[UltraMonk2]

That bugs can be fixed, lag resolved BEFORE more and more content is released (which ALWAYS creates more lag and more bugs)

It is impossible to find all the bugs in any decent sized piece of software.



Other games seem to manage this


Which games are those?


If Turbine are actually listening, perhaps they could explain the above.

Sure go and do a programming course and then develop and release a decent size program. You will then fully understand the explanation. :-)

[twiliteslayer02]

I actually see that a few handfulls of the mods and devs are looking at the forums, making actual adjustments and generally doing their best to appease our needs. For that I give kudos.

However, it still perplexes me to no end that the single most complained about issue in this game is still an issue as is the single most annoying one after , weell, since rather, the release of the game.

Lagg
The ladder bug


Be a chap and explain how the ones that are the most account-relavant like lagg are still not fixed, and for gods sake DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE LADDER BUG!


if thsoe two thing actually get fixed, I'll beleive they are doing more than giving us just enuf rope to hang ourselves, otherwise, i take the info given, i test it, and then make my choices as to whether or not to gripe , or applaud , in general, any response is better than none, and some of the responses ARE at least trying to be helpful. in-game help however.... thats a different story.

[UltraMonk2]

DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE LADDER BUG!

Sorry I can't find the dev quote but it was mentioned by a dev quite a while back that if you find a problem with a ladder somewhere then bug report it so they know which ones to fix.

Which is understandable because if they don't know which particular ones are broken then they will never know they need to fix it. :-)

[zwiebelring]

They listened. For Shroud they did. For several other things they did. Thing is, without fanboys like Cauthey people wouldn't even notice.

Right now, I only see shiny happy people.

Scroll drops... well, it is frustrating, yes, but I think, it is even frustrating for Turbine. It is one of the biggest incentives to run endgame in a game which gives reward by items and upgrading them.

[Sarnind]

We want more chalenge in epic quest

[HungarianRhapsody]

It is impossible to find all the bugs in any decent sized piece of software.

Which games are those?

Sure go and do a programming course and then develop and release a decent size program. You will then fully understand the explanation. :-)

I don't think that anybody is asking that the code be bug free. All that people really want is for there to be fewer bugs after each code release than before. Progress, not perfection.

As long as Turbine is fixing more things than they break, then most people will be pretty happy and I think that's a fairly reasonable goal. Also, fixing more bugs than they break doesn't mean fixing 3 ladder stuck spots and introducing 1 economy ruining exploit plus a new raid breaking source of lag in an update.

[psteen1]

They listened. For Shroud they did. For several other things they did. Thing is, without fanboys like Cauthey people wouldn't even notice.



The Shroud fix was huge. And seemed to be driven by community complaints. Thanks for doing that!

[Eleia]

Every mmorpg has bugs. You can go right now to any forum and find threads with people complaining about bugs. It's the nature of the mmo beast.

There's this game I used to play, it had the worst launch of any mmo to date. years later they still hold that title. Multiple instances didn't work to to point that you would have to run in/out over, and over, and over again just to zone in. It was that way for years. YEARS! (drove me out of my mind.)

They just fixed it a while ago and it still doesn't work. They also promised a graphics update so those of us with new computers could actually play. That was four or five years ago.

My point is Turbine is actually a stand up team. Every patch and update has a laundry list of fixes mixed in with their content. If they say they're going to do something you know they will. It's the waiting for it that gets hard, but it'll be there.

There are other games out there that when things are promised all you do is snort.

I'm not a turbine fanboi by any means, but they've worked hard to keep this game going by any means possible and not close it down.

It's also the only mmorpg I know of where just about everything is purely instanced and I can't imagine the coding nightmare that is for them.

It's easy to take ddo for granted, but it really is loaded with things that most mmorpgs hadn't done when ddo came out, or only pick a few of the things they've put in that we consider standard.

I know it's the "new thing" to hate on your mmo devs but they do listen, and they do work hard.

[UltraMonk2]

I don't think that anybody is asking that the code be bug free. All that people really want is for there to be fewer bugs after each code release than before. Progress, not perfection.

Granted, however there could be bugs in the game that no one has encountered yet, or very few people have encountered. There may be a 1000 bugs in the game right now for all we know, but unless someone triggers those bugs they can't be identified and fixed.

You can run extended tests on something with successful results every single time, but you cannot take into account every single possible variable. You release that code and suddenly some obscure circumstance triggers a bug in it.

But once you have identified a bug you have to prioritize it, and something that may seem simple to fix may actually be complicated to fix.

So how much time and resources do you want them to spend on finding the cause of a particular bug and fixing it? Sometimes it is better to let the bug slide in the meantime knowing that at some point because of other code you will be writing that bug will become easier to fix.

As an example I know that originally Druid's could not be implemented because of problems with the game, so what they most probably have been doing is every single update altering some part of the game code so eventually they could do Druid's. The same principle would apply to some bugs being fixed, in that alterations have to be made gradually for the bug fix to be put into place.

If a ladder hitches 1% of the time in a particular quest, do you think that should be high priority, and if you do make it high priority then that means other bugs become a lower priority.

Fixing bugs can be a nasty time consuming process, it isn't easy as people think. Sure there may be X bug here that takes 5 seconds to fix, but that other bug over there may take weeks due to some weird circumstances.

[evilgardengnome]

Don't forget my favorite change- The ability to apply metmagics to individual spells!

[Kaytis]

Please fix zone crashing? It's gotten so bad that I don't even need to step into sands anymore. After two or three toon swaps the client can crash just running through the market place. Please please have someone look at this.

But thank you for fixing shroud. People are running it as much as they used to, if not more so, on multiple difficulties. It is fun again for everyone. You did the right thing there.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Fixing bugs can be a nasty time consuming process, it isn't easy as people think. Sure there may be X bug here that takes 5 seconds to fix, but that other bug over there may take weeks due to some weird circumstances.

I used to work in QA. I absolutely agree with this. I still think it's an entirely reasonable expectation that the number of significant bugs should decrease over time as you continually work to fix those bugs. New bugs will be introduced and that cannot be entirely prevented, but if more bugs are being introduced than fixed, that indicates a serious structural problem in Turbine's process and management needs to take a step back and figure out a way to reverse that trend.

I have tremendous sympathy for the developers and QA staff working for Turbine today since they're all working with legacy code that was written by people who have long since left the company. Even with that handicap, I still think that it's entirely reasonable to expect that the fixed bugs should outnumber the newly introduced bugs as time passes. There will always be individual problem releases that introduce big new bugs, but the trend over time should be positive.

[Cyr]

We want TWF style users to not have an offhand proc for tactical abilities because that would make them too much more powerful than THF.
Granted!

We want monks to have only one use of a tactical ability instead of two (with a possibility of a doublestrike third use) because it's important for Monks to not stun more enemies than a Barbarian could.
Granted!

We want to use clickies and torches in challenges/cove while wearing our Madstone boots.
Granted!

We want Favored Souls to lose their wings in raids because that's the part that is really overpowered.
Granted!

Peacemaker had too few HP on Lamannia. It should have at least 100,000 HP so that we can really savor and enjoy that end fight.
Granted!

Non-endgame raid bosses don't have enough HP. Their HP should be increased by at least 50% so that we don't get bored by those raids on our capped, epic geared characters. Because beating on the exact same boss for 50% longer will much more exciting that the way that the raid currently works.
Granted!

Yup, this list is a good example of what happens when different developers listen to different niche groups and not use common sense gained through first hand experience in the game and in development as well as ignoring the rest of the feedback being offered.

You missed one of the biggest ones though...

Arcane casters are too weak. They should be able to do great dps versus boss mobs, instant kill everything else, and if they don't feel like instant killing dps down everything else. Because having CC, self healing, instant kills, top AoE dps, and stellar single target dps is clearly not unbalanced.
Granted!

[zeonardo]

Of course they listen...... They just listen to the wrong people :D

This.
This sums up pretty much everything I would say. And it's less acid. (Believe me)
If I would change anything, I would put "3-4" between "the" and "wrong".

[red_cardinal]

Well, I've said alot and it didn't matter much.
They have their way of doing things and nobody can change that, probably not even their managers.

They know - they don't have to listen. Eardweller is always on I guess - primarily ranting here about undone enhancements until now :p.

But nvm.

[Hambo]

They tend to listen even more if one is polite to them...

(Most humans have this tendancy, by the way.)

... But not the inclination. :D

[JohnRove]

I suppose now is a good time to clarify that my post was meant just to mess with Cauthey. He is someone I run with in-game alot, and I constantly applaud him for the optimistic look he has toward DDO development. I actually think Turbine have been doing well at listening to major concerns and trying to find ways to fix them.

My post was also meant to be a poke at the ppl who would inevitably have found the thread and posted something similar and actually meant it.

[quijenoth]

chiming in with a planned fix to Greensteel Deconstruction Request from players with Dev response! (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=355465)

[LeoLionxxx]

Lurked by a Dev.

This MUST mean that they read EVERYTHING we post on the forums. Thus, our every whim is awnsered swiftly and surely.
Thumbs up Turbine, for paying attention to your players :D

[fatherpirate]

forum --- <suggestion>
Dev --- interesting

Forum --- same suggestion said 100 different ways
Dev --- ok, ok forwarded

Forum ---- same suggestion 500 different ways with 200 posts that hate it
Dev --- gezzzz

Forum --- 100 threads now in argument over suggestion
Dev --- ackkk

Dev --- Ok, we are looking into this. There, that should help
Forum --- all new threads flaming the idea

Dev --- I need a vacation.

[danotmano1998]

Below are some of the examples of Turbine hearing the players and acting upon the players desires

Good Post!
+1 :D

[zwiebelring]

We want more chalenge in epic quest
No we don't.

[GrampaBill]

Sorry, but I can't get all misty eyed over this subject. Turbine has shown a vast disconnect between the staff and player game playing experience. An overriding sense I get from their past actions is there is a prevailing attitude that most players are a bunch of complaining noobs who don't know what they are talking about. They have also shown to be related to the mule as most times it requires the application of force utilizing a long piece of wood over the top of their craniums to get them to pay attention to what the user base is saying.

For how long was lag blamed upon the user's equipment before they finally decided to consider that there may be a problem at their end?

For how long did players lose green steel equipment in Abbot before they decided that it really was happening?

For how long did players complain about the unasked for change in the Normal Shroud blades before it was acknowledged as an oopsy?

To me, one of the greatest sins is to say that something was fixed in the Release notes and in actuality it wasn't.

I could go on and I'm sure there are many here who could fill pages with examples.

This all said I must also say that there are beacons of hope being displayed recently. The "Let's Talk" forum topics are a fantastic way for the staff to begin to appreciate the player experience. The Bravery Bonus was a great idea. The overhaul of some epic items was greatly appreciated (and yet still needs vast expansion). So, while I neither condemn nor hold Turbine harmless I do hold out hope for a better future.

[HAL]

Cauthey, give it a rest man. Talking about how they respond to problems that THEY created doesn't help matters. Everyone who falls all over themselves to be grateful when a dev responds to a bug report is pathetic. It doesn't say anything good about this game that people are impressed that devs respond to bug reports...

[Uma-Quixote]

It is impossible to find all the bugs in any decent sized piece of software.



Which games are those?



Sure go and do a programming course and then develop and release a decent size program. You will then fully understand the explanation. :-)


Been playing a lot of Rift lately.....and guess what?

I haven't experienced ANY lag!....and it seems the only time lag is discussed it's by ex DDO players who rejoice in not having to put up with it anymore.

[Ew_vastano]

Been playing a lot of Rift lately.....and guess what?

I haven't experienced ANY lag!....and it seems the only time lag is discussed it's by ex DDO players who rejoice in not having to put up with it anymore.

funnily enough i been playing swtor and hellgate and guess what I love finaly after 2 1/2 years not having any lag

but seriosly op turbine hasnt listened to players for the first 2 years i was here, funny how they have suddenly started listening and doing things just after large amounts of ppl left for star wars and all of a sudden theres 3 new f2p games coming out ( ie diablo 3 release may 15 2012, guild wars 3 going into beta shortly, neverwinter online funnily enough a d & d game based in FR release just after exp).


dont stand there and tell me turbine listenes the only reason they are doing things is because there will only be ppl like the op left if the game carries on as is

[arjiwan]

I created an elaborated reply to this thread showing my opinions, but ended up deleting the whole thing.


I'll just make this short instead since my opinion was never validated nor even listened to. (I want some internet hugs).

My opinion is, they only listen to the people they want to. I've seen good posts, suggestions and even valid respectful complains. Sad to see them being ignored.

I really respect DDO so much. I've spent countless hours of my free time. This is definitely a great game.

Sadly, I feel that they aim for profits first, good product later.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

They recently fixed a bug I had encountered and sent in.

Promptly several high-level players came in and demanded that "feature" to be given back to them !

(It was a case of accidentally overwriting shards bound to an item. To me, this is a bug, to others it is a "nice feature", because they used this "accidentally overwriting" as a tool right until then.)

However, a more serious translation bug has never been covered so far. And it is imho really serious, because it spreads the - supposedly - wrongly translated abbreviation of the Artificer throughout ALL German-language scrolls ...

[UltraMonk2]

For how long was lag blamed upon the user's equipment before they finally decided to consider that there may be a problem at their end?

I think you misunderstand the process of determining the cause of lag and therefore finding if it is the server or not.

Example: 100,000 people play X game, 1 player reports a problem. Suggested Solution: Player looks at their own system for cause of problem. The majority of the time a problem is found with players system.

It is only when multiple people report the same issue that it can be upgraded to possibly being a server issue, and even then it still could be a particular make of video card, a particular isp, etc.

Any game developer is not in the business of providing support for a persons own computer problems or even network problems. However the more concise descriptive information is given, the better the outcome.

People have been known to blame power outages on their own ISP.

[UltraMonk2]

Been playing a lot of Rift lately.....and guess what?

I haven't experienced ANY lag!....and it seems the only time lag is discussed it's by ex DDO players who rejoice in not having to put up with it anymore.

I was actually responding to your comments about bugs, not the lag. But hey fair enough call as I wasn't specific with that response.

From the Rift Forums:

* Can't connect or having lag? (23-Mar-2012 Dev Post)
http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-general-discussions/general-discussion/307290-cant-connect-having-lag-were.html

In the Rift Tech Support Forums:

* Lag and frequent d/c since patch fix
http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-general-discussions/tech-support/307687-lag-frequent-d-c-since-patch-fix.html

* Massive latency spikes
http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-general-discussions/tech-support/306584-massive-latency-spikes.html

* Vid card temps (Hey I found it interesting)
http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-general-discussions/tech-support/306637-vid-card-temps.html

* Still getting lag spikes
http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-general-discussions/tech-support/307612-still-getting-lag-spikes.html


Every single MMO has some customers that have lag issues. It isn't unique to DDO.

All I am trying to say is that every single lag issue that is reported does not mean it is Turbine's fault or their end, yet some people consistently carry on like it is.

[Master_of_None]

Here's another example for you. One of many threads on this subject.
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=3452700#post3452700

[Razcar]

Sorry I can't find the dev quote but it was mentioned by a dev quite a while back that if you find a problem with a ladder somewhere then bug report it so they know which ones to fix.

Which is understandable because if they don't know which particular ones are broken then they will never know they need to fix it. :-)
The ladder bug which they "fix" sometimes is IIRC due to two (or more) ladders that have been glued together, and your character starts to hitch when you reach the gap. But the general ladder bug can affect any ladder when you first start to climb it.

Thus the maneuver that has been perfected by all Stormreach adventurers worth their salt - the ladder leap. No one climbs the first step of a ladder in this fantasy realm, instead they make a fearless vault right to the middle of it. Let's just hope that any player won't forget themselves and start doing this in RL... :eek:

[GrampaBill]

In the end, I sincerely hope that we don't get a post like the following that was posted for Eve Online: http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=2672

A relevant part of the post: Somewhere along the way, I began taking success for granted. As hubris set in, I became less inclined to listen to pleas for caution. Red flags raised by very smart people both at CCP and in the community went unheeded because of my stubborn refusal to allow adversity to gain purchase on our plans. Mistakes, even when they were acknowledged, often went unanalyzed, leaving the door open for them to be repeated.

I hope we don't get it because that'd likely mean it's too late to turn the ship. But I do hope that some at Turbine read that post and pay attention to what happens, then maybe they'll come to a similar realization: The greatest lesson for me is the realization that EVE belongs to you, and we at CCP are just the hosts of your experience. When we channel our passion for EVE constructively, we can make this vision a reality together.

[FrostBeard]

Cauthey sad to say but i think you care more about turbines honor then they do.

[Alavatar]

We want TWF style users to not have an offhand proc for tactical abilities because that would make them too much more powerful than THF.
Granted!

We want monks to have only one use of a tactical ability instead of two (with a possibility of a doublestrike third use) because it's important for Monks to not stun more enemies than a Barbarian could.
Granted!

We want to use clickies and torches in challenges/cove while wearing our Madstone boots.
Granted!

We want Favored Souls to lose their wings in raids because that's the part that is really overpowered.
Granted!

Peacemaker had too few HP on Lamannia. It should have at least 100,000 HP so that we can really savor and enjoy that end fight.
Granted!

Non-endgame raid bosses don't have enough HP. Their HP should be increased by at least 50% so that we don't get bored by those raids on our capped, epic geared characters. Because beating on the exact same boss for 50% longer will much more exciting that the way that the raid currently works.
Granted!

This looks like you are quoting Shade. :p

[Ravoc-DDO]

We want more chalenge in epic quest

You must be playing casters mostly...

[Cauthey]

Updated the "MOAR Listening" post. Thank you for those that have added links or reminders. :D



Still doesn't list "Brought the game back into balance". /fail

I disagree, kind sir. Their accomplishments are NOTFAIL. Instead, they are biting off more than they can chew, and they're chewing it (http://i.qkme.me/57.jpg).

Class balance will likely always be an issue to some degree. They can make tweaks here, and adjustments there. But, anytime they introduce a new class, they run the risk of tipping the balance scales in one direction or another. Does that mean that Turbine should staunchly take the position of "No more new classes!" ? No, it does not.

Anything they add, I feel sure that they will have rigorously tested. But I seriously doubt that anyone except the balls-out, hardcore, live player community will be able to give any new content an adequate test to protect against possibly unbalanced new features. Turbine simply does not have the budget or the time to provide the diversity and scale of testing that the live player community does.

For example, they could release a new and harmless Fart Catcher class. Well, it would be completely harmless until someone decides to unleash a potent, hybrid multiclass build that breaks the game: like the Evasion-style Fart Repeater Mechanic build. You just can't see poo like that coming. :D :D :D

[waterboytkd]

To the OP, the last 3 months have actually been pretty amazing. The open dialogues, the fairly quick responses to players, the earlier Lama launches that can actually incorporate our changes--it's pretty sweet. One thing to consider, though, is what we just came from, and why a lot of people are so negative. I wasn't here for the vast and mysterious nothing that happened when Atari and Turbine had their big breakup, but from what I hear from guildies that were, it was awful.

However, I was here for:


We want TWF style users to not have an offhand proc for tactical abilities because that would make them too much more powerful than THF.
Granted!

We want monks to have only one use of a tactical ability instead of two (with a possibility of a doublestrike third use) because it's important for Monks to not stun more enemies than a Barbarian could.
Granted!

We want to use clickies and torches in challenges/cove while wearing our Madstone boots.
Granted!

We want Favored Souls to lose their wings in raids because that's the part that is really overpowered.
Granted!

Peacemaker had too few HP on Lamannia. It should have at least 100,000 HP so that we can really savor and enjoy that end fight.
Granted!

Non-endgame raid bosses don't have enough HP. Their HP should be increased by at least 50% so that we don't get bored by those raids on our capped, epic geared characters. Because beating on the exact same boss for 50% longer will much more exciting that the way that the raid currently works.
Granted!

Now, in all fairness to the Madstone one, they psuedo-killed it. Players showed their displeasure in the Lama forums, and the devs killed it...kind of. One change somehow still slipped through (the fatigue thing), but the greater bulk of changes were stopped--that should count as listening.

However, all those other changes happened in 2011. Other than U9, I view 2011 as the DDO Dark Ages, where shortsightedness and reactionary tendencies ruled the day. The changes to the tactics was insane--in fact, it ran against pretty much everything everyone on the forums was saying. Casters had become so much better at end game than melees with U9, yet it seemed like melees were on the receiving end of unnecessary nerfs. To me, at least, it seemed like everyone was asking for full proccing for tactics, to both the offhand and to glancing blows*.

The wings thing...I don't want to get into that again. But yeah...I felt the wings were not the problem.

Boss hp, though, is a thing that was beyond my comprehension. Especially with an expansion in the works, why would they bother trying to "expand" the end game by buffing the middle-game? And the fortification changes...look above to melees vs casters. Again, it seemed like more nerfs to melees while casters were still better. They then hacked some boss hp down, and gave us more ways to overcome fortification...but those tended to be feats, and melees are already super-strapped for feats (you need 3 feats for your fighting style, Power Attack, Improved Crit, and Toughness already, so 6 of your 7 non-bonus feats, leaving you 1 feat for PrE prereqs; making it almost required to take Imp Sunder, as well, is a bit much for Barbarians, Paladins, and Rogues, and even Rangers).

Turbine, if you're listening/lurking (looking at you, KookieKobold), the changes of 2011 should still be seriously reviewed and reconsidered. A lot of them were bad. I mean, you know it was bad when a lot of players considered the bag bug exploit in December to be one of the best changes to happen that year. :S

*Dear Turbine, if you're still listening even after that last paragraph, I think some serious consideration--and by serious, I mean like terminal illness serious--should be given to letting tactics proc to off-hands AND glancing blows. This would accomplish three things: first, it would make the use of tactics more popular, thus reducing the notion of melees being one-dimensional dps machines (a notion I think leads to some serious fallacies, and even worse, if those fallacies are believed by enough, it leaks into game design--I LOVE the idea that even the hardest raid in DDO can be soundly beaten without requiring players to bring only full-****** [insert party role here]); second, it would make melees who actually use those tactics more effective in end-game quests, especially 6-man epic quests--both stuns and trips make an enemy stop attacking, which gives the melee the damage mitigation that it ABSOLUTELY needs to survive those quests without a babysitter glued to their back; third, it would create a very clear difference in the play styles of THF vs TWF.

I want to elaborate on that last idea: part of the TWF change in U5 was to bring the dps of TWF and THF closer together. You don't want one style being so clearly better than the other. My proposed tactics change would also close any viability gaps, not by making them closer to the same, but by giving them their own role. If tactics procced to TWF offhands (even if it did it incorrectly as some monk special attacks seem to--getting as many as 4 additional procs of an ability, for example, which is not as big of a problem as it may seem), then TWF tactics users would excel at landing those tactics on single targets. The target would most likely be forced to make multiple saves to resist the tactic, making it less likely that it would actually resist. On the other hand, if tactics procced onto glancing blows, it would turn THF tactics users into great AoE melees. Throw down a stunning blow, and watch all the mobs in your front arc make a save vs stun. Throw out a trip, and watch the group standing right in front of you fall down.

So TWF tactics users would be better at dealing with and eliminating single targets, while THF tactics users would be able to mitigate the effectiveness of entire groups of mobs.

It would be awesome. More melee builds would have more roles than just beat stick in the end game vs trash, which in turn would make more melee builds more effective at end game vs trash, and it would make different melee builds actually feel quite different, all while keeping them all effective.

Sorry if my post went a little off-topic from the thread, but as long as we're talking about devs listening, I figured, throw something out there they could listen to. :P

[Cauthey]

<snip feedback about other MMO experiences>

dont stand there and tell me turbine listenes the only reason they are doing things is because there will only be ppl like the op left if the game carries on as is

No, I will stand here and tell you that Turbine listens. I have 20+ examples (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=367272) of Turbine 1) witnessing community gripes/desires/feedback, and 2) acting upon it. Some of those examples were quicker responses than others, and some are still pending. But, my argument is sound: Turbine DOES listen.

I did not set out to dispute or discuss your experiences in other MMOs. Clearly, yes...those are DDO's competitors. And to be successful, Turbine will need to strive to be the best in their class. I believe that they are doing that, but that is a separate topic.

Further, I should hope that you chose to invest your game playtime into a game that you thoroughly enjoy, for your sake and everyone else's. :D



I created an elaborated reply to this thread showing my opinions, but ended up deleting the whole thing.

Man, I effing hate that. Better copy/paste this response right now to keep that from happening. I feel your pain, bro. :D



I'll just make this short instead since my opinion was never validated nor even listened to. (I want some internet hugs).

My opinion is, they only listen to the people they want to. I've seen good posts, suggestions and even valid respectful complains. Sad to see them being ignored.

I really respect DDO so much. I've spent countless hours of my free time. This is definitely a great game.

Sadly, I feel that they aim for profits first, good product later.

*internet hug* *internet hug* :D

Profits are certainly high on their agenda. But, really, who's agenda are profits not on? Especially these days.

The good product will come. And, the good product will come easier when they can establish sustainable profits. My hope is that they have done that and are continuing to do that, especially with all of the mentions of growing their Dev team.



For how long <snip>

For how long <snip>

For how long <snip>

This is an MMO, with 10s if not 100s of thousands of players (I've never claimed to be a scholar of their population stats). For the most part*, 24/7/365 uptime. Nothing is going to move fast in that kind of an environment. Plus, you don't want their cycles to be fast! If they were, we'd probably be seeing bugs 10 fold compared to what we're seeing currently.

Another post in response to yours stated it well. Turbine is less likely expend resources to research a bug that has only been submitted by 1 player out of 100,000. Also, it's human nature to shrug much of our disgruntled experience off, and not go back to the source to report it. In Raving Fans (http://www.amazon.com/Raving-Fans-Revolutionary-Approach-Customer/dp/0688123163), it's stated that maybe 1 person out of 10 that have an overwhelmingly negative experience will bother to bring that bad experience to the attention of the business. Instead, some of those 10 will either shrug it off, and come back anyway. Or, they'll take their business somewhere else. So, if 1,000 out of 100,000 experience game crippling lag at a particular moment, Turbine might only receive 100 bug reports on it. Of those 100 bug reports, how many of them do you think are actually legible, or include helpful information? :p

With sneaky, not-all-the-time type problems, human nature and the math are NOT on the side of getting things identified and fixed swiftly. Sad, but true.

* Yeah, yeah, whatever! Sure they have maintenance downtime! But, for the most part, DDO is 24/7/365.


To me, one of the greatest sins is to say that something was fixed in the Release notes and in actuality it wasn't.

I could go on and I'm sure there are many here who could fill pages with examples.

This all said I must also say that there are beacons of hope being displayed recently. The "Let's Talk" forum topics are a fantastic way for the staff to begin to appreciate the player experience. The Bravery Bonus was a great idea. The overhaul of some epic items was greatly appreciated (and yet still needs vast expansion). So, while I neither condemn nor hold Turbine harmless I do hold out hope for a better future.

I can forgive them the errors in the Release Notes. Though, I see your point. If they're going to say x, then it darn tootin' had better be x. Still, I can appreciate and forgive the occasional mistakes. Particularly for people that I believe are busting their butts to stick to an incredibly aggressive content schedule.

The "Let's Talks" are definitely a great series. They have been a really constructive avenue for the community to pile in feedback to the Devs. I just get the impression with their current deliverable that are pending (read: Lolth!), coming and "playing" on the forums is not very high on their list right now.


Cauthey, give it a rest man. Talking about how they respond to problems that THEY created doesn't help matters. Everyone who falls all over themselves to be grateful when a dev responds to a bug report is pathetic. It doesn't say anything good about this game that people are impressed that devs respond to bug reports...

I'm just saying that they listen. I have a lot of respect for them, and I do try to fall all over myself to thank them and congratulate them. Because just like the 10 negative experiences where only 1 gripes, the same is true for positive. For every 10 that think that Turbine's doing a great job, they may only get 1 pat on the back. Maybe even less since humans tend to focus and remark only on the negative, and not on the positive.

I like it when I get praise for doing a good job. I'm sure that most reading this are the same. Therefore, I will try to go out of my way and recognize others when I see jobs well done. Because I know that 9 others aren't going to be bothered to.


Cauthey sad to say but i think you care more about turbines honor then they do.

I imagine that they care about their own honor plenty. They're just not as foolish as I am to attempt to defend their honor in an internet forum. :p :D

[MindCake]

No, I will stand here and tell you that Turbine listens. I have 20+ examples (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=367272) of Turbine 1) witnessing community gripes/desires/feedback, and 2) acting upon it.
Many of those could be nothing more than http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

For example, let's look at the first one:


These are in no particular order:
Players: We want more upper level and epic content!
Turbine:
Menace of the Underdark, coming June 25th (Epic levels 21-25) (http://underdark.ddo.com/)
Update 11: Secrets of the Artificers (3 new quests, 2 new raids) (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Release_Notes_Update_11_Official#Of_Special_Note:)
Update 13: Web of Chaos (3 new F2P quests, including epics) (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Release_Notes_Update_13_Official#Of_Special_Note)

Seriously? You take an increase of level cap as a sign of Turbine listening to the players? What were they going to do otherwise? Keep the same level cap FOREVER?



Granted, a couple of points sound pretty convincing.
But when you have thousands of people, some saying "go left" some saying "go right", some saying stop, accelerate, spin in circles or do a barrel roll, then whatever you do, it may seem you listened to someone.

Eg. Druids, sure, there are posts amounting to "Give us druids"... and there are also posts amounting to "Fix some bugs before making another class.", "Finish enhancement lines for the existing classes before introducing new ones", "new classes should be free to VIPs", "add gnomes first", etc.
Did Turbine really listen to the group wishing for druids, and decided their case is more important than the gnome peoples'?
Or did they just compare costs and profits of Artificer and Horc sales and go with the more efficient one?
Not to mention Druids are a core class, and were on the "to do" list very long ago, possibly from the very beginning even.

New enhancement UI? Great idea. Copying enhancement trees? Not so much.


And the bug reports? It's great they treat them seriously, really. So what are the answers to the serious bugs?
-Fixes coming / we're working on it.
-Be glad I'm not a content developer.
-Looks like an issue. We're investigating.
-We're working on it.
-Probable fix incoming!
Listening: +
Acting: pending


So yeah. I'm not saying it's all doom or anything, but colour me not impressed.

[Uma-Quixote]

You must be playing casters mostly...

Thanks for the laugh!...this thread has been pretty serious...moar gags, less lags