"TR's only" groups...

[mobrien316]

For anyone who posts LFM's that read "TR's only", I just wanted to ask what the rationale is behind them?


I'm not trying to criticize; anyone can post whatever they want on an LFM. But I'm curious why you restrict your LFM to TR's only.

Do you believe TR's are better players? Do you want to make sure all optionals are hit so you get the maximum XP possible and you think non-TR's won't appreciate that?


Over the weekend I saw a Shroud LFM that read "TR's only." I sent a tell to the leader to ask if I could join with my non-TR rogue, and explained that I have other characters with multiple past lives but that this rogue is on his first life. I never got a response and the LFM was up for another ten or fifteen minutes or so before it filled.

I just don't get it. I can't think of any reason why I would only want TR's in my group. I certainly prefer good players rather than bad, but in my opinion you are no more likely to encounter a poorly-played character who has no past lives than you are compared to a person with past lives.

[garlor]

I don't understand it either, I usually post my lfm's as "no noob friendly" "be useful" or something in the lines, because there are many new toons that have solid players behind, and many tr's that have junk players behind, most usually the ones putting this "TR only" are the junk players that think only a TR toon can be a good toon/player, that's why I tend to avoid em

[SirShen]

For anyone who posts LFM's that read "TR's only", I just wanted to ask what the rationale is behind them?


I'm not trying to criticize; anyone can post whatever they want on an LFM. But I'm curious why you restrict your LFM to TR's only.

Do you believe TR's are better players? Do you want to make sure all optionals are hit so you get the maximum XP possible and you think non-TR's won't appreciate that?


Over the weekend I saw a Shroud LFM that read "TR's only." I sent a tell to the leader to ask if I could join with my non-TR rogue, and explained that I have other characters with multiple past lives but that this rogue is on his first life. I never got a response and the LFM was up for another ten or fifteen minutes or so before it filled.

I just don't get it. I can't think of any reason why I would only want TR's in my group. I certainly prefer good players rather than bad, but in my opinion you are no more likely to encounter a poorly-played character who has no past lives than you are compared to a person with past lives.

Really it says more about the person with the lfm - Big ego and thinking TRs are better players. Really it makes me laugh. Iv been in a party with a person that had a 5 life TR and they had no idea what they were doing in the quest and then said this is the first time iv done this quest and no it was not a new quest from U13.

[danotmano1998]

I'm guessing the rationale behind it is that if you are a TR, you would have run most if not all the quests in the game already, and you are on an XP train.

I have to admit, I run a TR significantly different than a non-TR character.
On a TR (read XP HOG!) I will typically zerg quests faster, skip optionals if they arent worth a lot of xp, and only run with an Elite bravery streak going.

Also, another huge consideration of a TR is generally that they will already be gear loaded, so they're wearing their GS stuff and generally have more resources/survivability.

On a NON-TR, I stop to smell the flowers, join whichever group sounds good, and don't worry about XP/min or speed.



It's more of a mindset than anything else, but that's typically how I run my Tr's and how I read LFM's up that are posted "TR's only" or similar verbage. Results may differ wildly based on personal experiences.

[Drekisen]

I have played with a lot of TR's...I can assure you plenty of them are not good players at all.

Don't forget...not all things with wings are beneficial.

It's mostly a niche........TR's feel that other TR's will be more in tune with their autonomous way of leveling.

A lot of TR's are only concerned with getting to "god" mode as quick as possible.....and many of them don't know how to have fun.....so don't take it personally......actually be happy of it...you don't wanna play with people like that anyways.

[Gremmlynn]

Some players just think TRing makes them an elite player and only want to associate with other "elite players". To me, it just points out that the poster has no clue as to what makes an elite, or even competent, player.

Though, I suppose, it could be a very poor attempt to filter for players that have similar goals, when simply posting those goals (I'm guessing; fast run for maximum xp) when simply posting those goals would work a lot better.

[~Quilny]

Really it says more about the person with the lfm - Big ego and thinking TRs are better players. Really it makes me laugh. Iv been in a party with a person that had a 5 life TR and they had no idea what they were doing in the quest and then said this is the first time iv done this quest and no it was not a new quest from U13.

not about Ego its abotu finding people who wont out level you after the 1st few quests lol. 1st lifer sneeze and they are 20. I liek to find peopel around my level and try to stay with the same party all the wy to 20 can't do that with 1st lifers unless they willing to hold levels.

[Tyrande]

I have played with a lot of TR's...I can assure you plenty of them are not good players at all.

Don't forget...not all things with wings are beneficial.

It's mostly a niche........TR's feel that other TR's will be more in tune with their autonomous way of leveling.

A lot of TR's are only concerned with getting to "god" mode as quick as possible.....and many of them don't know how to have fun...

I have a few Legend and hero builds myself.

I have to concur with the quoted text though. I have run with lots of TRs and some of them were just extremely fast grinding and dying a lot without having fun. Some of them just leave spawns behind and not cleaning them up, generating lots of dungeon alerts. When you do not have a fast computer/graphics card/internet connection/no lag to catch up to him/her, they spawn monsters behind you blocked your progresses in a door and those spawn monsters kill you...

Some of them charmed all monsters, and not releasing them, but when you get to them; they were not charmed due to time ran out and killed you... It was not fun grouping with people not willing to kill monsters and generates lots of dungeon alerts and not waiting for you when you don't run as fast as him/her.

Some of them are just plain rude... They timed those explosive charges just to kill you... like in the quests "Blown to Pieces" and "Undermine"...

[hecate355]

It reads like 'quick, smooth and effortless runs/farms' to me. If you are Tr and equipped to the gills with raid/rare stuff, then its easy assume such mindset. Only thing you are after is leveling process, not the drama.

Essentially its looking for like-minded people, whatever way you reason, quick/fast/painless runs are more likely to take place in TR group.

[msdesign]

How I do understand you.

And I have a few more examples on that kind of behaviour, as...

- A group created by a wizard, flagged "only for undead with self-heals".
- A group created by a warforged wizzard. When I tried to enter the party with my multiclass elf sorc 4 / cleric 1 / rogue 1, he declined and answered me after I ask why: "your build is junk"
- And the groups "for TR" only.

Well, my advice: ignore that people. Note their names if you want to. In the day you are creating a party and one of them asks to join, you can decline and tell them "you are a TR. My party is for non-TRs only" :D

[Arnhelm]

not about Ego its abotu finding people who wont out level you after the 1st few quests lol. 1st lifer sneeze and they are 20. I liek to find peopel around my level and try to stay with the same party all the wy to 20 can't do that with 1st lifers unless they willing to hold levels.
Hadn't thought about this before today. Thank you.

[Zyerz]

People who assume having a TR means you're a good player are usually not very good players themselves. It's their own cover so they can at least "look" like they are better than a 28 or 32 pt build. To be honest, I've been in groups where my 32 point build Sword and board pally leads the kill count and doesnt die, while the rest are multiple life TR tanks and end up dying and rarely getting any kills. It's all about how you build your toon, not how many TR levels you have. Anyone can get up to lv 20 and TR... Doesn't take much. It's pretty easy actually. The reason I don't level up my toons as quick as most people do is because I like to enjoy the game, and have fun. Not make it a job.

[jandhaer]

I put it in the lfms so they dont get mad when...

1. I dont babysit them or wait for them at all really if your in you get xp if not too bad run faster. DDO = Mario Kart, zerg FTW

2. You dont have to keep up but you have to stay alive (if that means piking at the beggining its better then loosing me 10% every run)

3. This isnt a LOOT run, Im going from A to B as fast/efficient as possible and dont want to have to sell after every run, get rich when your back at L20 far easier that way.

Basically its saying join if you will make this a faster smoother run if not go away please and ty, or at the very least will not be slowing us down and costing us XP constantly.

[anto_capone]

I do a lot of xp zerg runs. Sometimes I've put 'BYOH, TR's welcome' ect; and I usually end up taking anyone.

Now I don't quite understand a 'TR only' group, but perhaps the meaning of the creation of such a group would be based on XP gains. Meaning, that the 'TR only' group is XP grinding, trying to stay over 1k xp per min, zerging/skipping optionals as pertaining to xp/time, and not waiting around for a healer or specific group makeup.

But I could be wrong. Maybe they just want a lot of lightning bolts for all I know... :D

[Gremmlynn]

It reads like 'quick, smooth and effortless runs/farms' to me. If you are Tr and equipped to the gills with raid/rare stuff, then its easy assume such mindset. Only thing you are after is leveling process, not the drama.

Essentially its looking for like-minded people, whatever way you reason, quick/fast/painless runs are more likely to take place in TR group.Really? In my experience, a lot of TRs are in such a hurry to "win" the game, they generally don't take the time to learn how to play. Frankly, the whole mindset that the game is something best gotten past as quickly as possible just tends to reinforce this trend.

[MartinusWyllt]

Sound strange for a Shroud but what I generally think when I see a "TR preferred" or "TR friendly" which are usually how "TR only" tends to be phrased on Thelanis I generally think the expectation is:

1. More likely to know where the quest is.
2. More likely to have a way to heal themselves.
3. Less likely to zerg and die/ragequit. (More likely to successfully zerg if zerging)
4. More likely to have quest-appropriate weapons/pots/wands/spells.
5. Everyone joining will likely be interested in a fast and efficient completion.

(The use of more or less likely relative to the new 1st life player.)

[Lleren]

Really? In my experience, a lot of TRs are in such a hurry to "win" the game, they generally don't take the time to learn how to play. Frankly, the whole mindset that the game is something best gotten past as quickly as possible just tends to reinforce this trend.

That they do not play the game your way, does not mean they do not know how to play the game their way.

Your way and their way may not work well together, and may even look equally unskilled from the other side.

[In_Like_Flynn]

It's the same six threads, over and over.

[Gremmlynn]

Sound strange for a Shroud but what I generally think when I see a "TR preferred" or "TR friendly" which are usually how "TR only" tends to be phrased on Thelanis I generally think the expectation is:

1. More likely to know where the quest is.
2. More likely to have a way to heal themselves.
3. Less likely to zerg and die/ragequit. (More likely to successfully zerg if zerging)
4. More likely to have quest-appropriate weapons/pots/wands/spells.
5. Everyone joining will likely be interested in a fast and efficient completion.

(The use of more or less likely relative to the new 1st life player.)In my experience, all players, new and old, are 1st life, though I'm sure some will disagree based on their spiritual belief system.

The thing is, not all TRs are played by long time players, just as not all first life characters are played by new players. I myself am a good example of the later, as I've been playing a couple of years, but see absolutely no reason, after reaching level 20 on a character to do it all again with a stronger character (to me it makes about as much sense as the statement; "well we beat the quest on elite, let's do it again and see if we can beat it on casual"). So, "TR only" just makes for a poor filter.

[MartinusWyllt]

... I myself am a good example of the later, as I've been playing a couple of years, but see absolutely no reason, after reaching level 20 on a character to do it all again with a stronger character (to me it makes about as much sense as the statement; "well we beat the quest on elite, let's do it again and see if we can beat it on casual"). So, "TR only" just makes for a poor filter.

I agree it is a poor filter, I don't post those myself, I just don't see them as elitist as other people see them...and I have joined them on non-TR, but it was in "preferred" or "friendly" groups.

While I do want multiple past lives to support crazy builds I do see what you're saying; but then again I like going back through resident evil with the rocket launcher and the tommy gun after finishing the game. Its a different kind of fun.

[Eleia]

In my experience, all players, new and old, are 1st life, though I'm sure some will disagree based on their spiritual belief system.

The thing is, not all TRs are played by long time players, just as not all first life characters are played by new players. I myself am a good example of the later, as I've been playing a couple of years, but see absolutely no reason, after reaching level 20 on a character to do it all again with a stronger character (to me it makes about as much sense as the statement; "well we beat the quest on elite, let's do it again and see if we can beat it on casual"). So, "TR only" just makes for a poor filter.

I agree.

The only reason I even bothered TRing my arty was because I was just having that much fun. So I figured why not.

To the OP I don't know what the mind set of TR only groups are.

I've gotten a few tell requests to join TR only groups (before I remembered my /anon wasn't on) and from their conversations it seems to be an assumption that when you TR you're twinked to the gills and know every quest.

I'm not quite sure what those +2 extra points are susposed to do for your "eliteability," or how they make you better but meh.

The wings are cute. They wings go great with my social armor. The wings make my drow look precious. lol That's all it means to me.

[Uma-Quixote]

To be honest I find it even wierder how some big-time TR's on my server (Sarlona) just pug all the time...these guys are multi-lives...maybe 10x maybe more and are presumably going for completionist...
good for them...
but why do they put groups up and take first life noobs? Very, very occasionally when I really have had nothing better to do (and certainly should have known better),I have joined these groups. These super-toons know the content backwards (they farm it to death every couple of weeks) and zerg through leaving all lesser beings floundering in their wake....why group?
Why not just solo it? or just group with 1 or 2 similar others?...
Never understood this.

[Ganak]

For leveling I often put "TR only zerg" because:

1. To warn players what to expect. I don't want a new player to have a bad experience.
2. To weed out those who would slow down the group because as the group leader I have a responsibility to the others in the group to maintain the style of play I advertise.


I often get tells from people who say "I'm not a TR but know the quest" and I let them in. The TR only is to up front set expectations and not to be unreasonably exclusive.

[Satinavian]

Well, i don't open such lfms but i join often when on a TR.

For me it means most of the following combined :

- know the quest. There will be no explaination, no sightseeing, only 6-12 people doing the same strategy as always without loosing a single word.

- be prepared. You can fullfill the role(s) your class usually does and you have all the usual gear (fort, deathblock, poison/desease immunity or pots, dr brakers if needed, emergency healing)

- want xp. Run the quest in a fast but try optionals with huge xp. Try not to die.


If i am half asleep after a long day of work and don't want to talk strategies or pay attention to my group more than the bare minimum such a TR only run is the right thing. I am on a toon which is most likely overgeared for its level and does survive some sloppy play and with my questknowledge and powerful build i still remain useful even if not at peak performance. That doesn't mean piking - the impression to be useless is pretty much the worst experiance in the game for me.

Doing any 6-man-quest in a full TR group should be so easy that one really can relax and let the mind drift instead of being challanged. Sometimes i might want that. Yes, i could probably solo it. Which takes longer. And sometimes i am really not in the mood for explaination or guidance. Granted, if that is the case, i don't open an lfm and pretend to be a party leader which is why i never create "only-TR"-lfms. But joining them, yes.

TRs are not better players. But there are certain expectations for TRs. Meaning the players tend to feel embarrased for shortcomings a firstlifer is usually forgiven. If someone dies there is no blame on others as TRs shouldn't die in non raids if they do not make mistakes even if grouped with gimps. Similar with every other mistake or even gear/build issue. The expectation is so high that most TRs blame themselves when something goes wrong instead of the group. Less drama overall.

[Urjak]

I mean I haven't posted any "TR only groups" so far ... but recently I started to think about it ... here my reasons:

.) This has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the expected power level / skill of a player!
.) It is about a certain gaming style! When I m TRing I now always do either only elite (with BB), e/h/n (with BB on elite) or total farm modus: e/10xh/n/c ... a 1st lifer will simply rarely stay for such a group ... also I want to do those farming runs fast paced ... with that I don't mean "zerg zerg zerg insanely" (i mean yes ofc I also mean to run the quest itself fast ... but most of the time you either have other zergers in the group as well => no prob ... or I just zerg ahead, forcing the rest to either pike or follow^^) ... what I am talking about is the time BETWEEN quests ... some first lifers sell/repair/pick their nose/bio/smoke/go on a walk with their dog and eat a sandwich between each run ... when I m on a farming run I want to run the quest, recall and reenter immediately ... every hour I will take a break for rebuff/sell/repair ... and lets continue ;)
.) TRs (almost) always know about holding levels to increase the xp of certain quests ... a newbie 1st lifer will say after 3 runs "oh I gotta level" ... which more often than not takes him 20 minutes since he didn't plan ahead ... for example I never need more than one minute to take a level since I EXACTLY know what I want.
.) Last but not least: TRs (at least most of the time) know the quests .. you don't have to guide them to the quest ... if you already started, they will understand and instead of lots of drama simply ask "How far in are you? Will you do another run afterwards?", which I can give a simple answer to and everyone knows what to do^^

but all in all I still refrain from the "TR only" phrase ... instead I m thinking more along the lines of "TRs prefered" or "TR xp farming" since those IMO state clearer what this is all about^^

also if someone sends me a tell / joins with a first lifer and states he is okay with our running style ... I have no problem with this ... its more about trying to avoid communication problems^^

and lastly: "TR only" for a shroud run: I really can't think of any reason at all this could make sense O_o

[sirgog]

I put it in the lfms so they dont get mad when...

1. I dont babysit them or wait for them at all really if your in you get xp if not too bad run faster. DDO = Mario Kart, zerg FTW

2. You dont have to keep up but you have to stay alive (if that means piking at the beggining its better then loosing me 10% every run)

3. This isnt a LOOT run, Im going from A to B as fast/efficient as possible and dont want to have to sell after every run, get rich when your back at L20 far easier that way.

Basically its saying join if you will make this a faster smoother run if not go away please and ty, or at the very least will not be slowing us down and costing us XP constantly.

Yeah 3 is a big one.

TRs almost never go a long way out of their way for a chest (unless it's a somewhat special chest like the Xorian Cypher ones).

Still you get much better results (i.e. more people of a like mindset joining your group) if you post an LFM stating 'Zerging. Elitist jerks only'. No LFM works better in attracting more people that will enjoy running with you and will work well with you and less people that will not.

[licho]

Everybody has free will to post any lfm he likes. It may be tr only, dwarves only, casters only, vets/clerks/nurses... whatever-only. For some reason leader believes in either its for good, or its more funny that way.
Anyway, its good to let them do their stuff and have fun.
Often if we keep away from this lfm, its only better for us.

On side note, this is for sure funny lfm (almost as "shroud normal, bring Min II").

The right thing to do is to start own group for desired quest and do it your way.

[Seamonkeysix]

To be honest I find it even wierder how some big-time TR's on my server (Sarlona) just pug all the time...these guys are multi-lives...maybe 10x maybe more and are presumably going for completionist...
good for them...
but why do they put groups up and take first life noobs? Very, very occasionally when I really have had nothing better to do (and certainly should have known better),I have joined these groups. These super-toons know the content backwards (they farm it to death every couple of weeks) and zerg through leaving all lesser beings floundering in their wake....why group?
Why not just solo it? or just group with 1 or 2 similar others?...
Never understood this.

You don't affect their XP, so I would guess the thought process is "if you want to knock this out quickly, feel free to join". I have run several quests with fast moving completionist builds. If I really feel like getting XP without a ton of work, this isn't a bad way to do it.

[Seamonkeysix]

Just because someone has TR'd, doesn't make them a good player. That being said...

I am pretty sure Vegas would take the odds on a group of 6 random TR's getting through a quest more easily than a group of 6 random 28 point builds who just started playing.

I am on Sarlona, and I would have to say the groups of all or nearly all TR's that struggle in quests are pretty rare. Groups of newer players on 1st life toons that struggle in quests, are not so rare.

It's not elitism, it's just a fact. TR's are going to have more gear to help them through. Hopefully they have some knowledge of the quest and the resources necessary to complete it. When you are quickly grinding XP, it isn't always fun to have somebody ask to share the quest and ask which house it's in and then wait 10 minutes for them to find it. It's not saying anything about "I'm better than you". It's simply "I have done this before and want to get it done again quickly and easily".

[JollySwagMan]

When you are quickly grinding XP, it isn't always fun to have somebody ask to share the quest and ask which house it's in and then wait 10 minutes for them to find it. It's not saying anything about "I'm better than you". It's simply "I have done this before and want to get it done again quickly and easily".

Aye, I get this.

However it is much simpler to use a TR channel to build xp/min groups if you don't want to deal with newbies hitting your LFM.

[HungarianRhapsody]

I can understand TR-only groups for Gianthold or Vale quests or similar if you're going to farm content.

If you want to farm something for a while and don't want to have to keep dealing with people dropping out and coming in, TR's are much more likely to stick around for a while when farming than first life characters.

[shores11]

I just post an LFM and only restrict what class I might need, rogue, healer, fighter type, etc... Players that put TR only in their LFM's or some other silly restriction think that a TR has some huge advantage over non-TR'd characters. The advantage is really small in comparison I think.

Ignore them I say as I do even on my TR'd characters. I don't have time for such arrogance.

[Sarnind]

Tr only is a simple filter for all noobs adventurer build , usually I used this system every time in my partys or can u have My ddo filter feature for inspect equip and stats. Prefer doing solo quest with low dungeon scaling, make a full grp with newbs player is a very bad idea.

[Xeraphim]

For anyone who posts LFM's that read "TR's only", I just wanted to ask what the rationale is behind them?


Easy: Enough deaths in a row means that I have to stop what I am doing and farm something to recover the lost XP while everyone I know keeps moving forward. It's tedious, wearying and wasteful to bring folks along that will just die and be a burden.


I'm not trying to criticize; anyone can post whatever they want on an LFM. But I'm curious why you restrict your LFM to TR's only.


As I mentioned above, TRs tend to prefer folks that know what's coming and are fully prepared to deal with it head on. They don't waste time exploring the scenery, they don't ask to scale down the difficulty and break your streak just so they can be more comfortable, and they don't semi-permanently occupy a slot in your pack labelled "Soulstone".


Do you believe TR's are better players? Do you want to make sure all optionals are hit so you get the maximum XP possible and you think non-TR's won't appreciate that?


No, they are not "better players," they are players who have hit the level cap and want to gain a little extra power once they make it back to said cap. It's minor per level, yes, but in Epic difficulty quests that little +1 can tip the scales ever so slightly to bring victory from a very close defeat. They also tend to be a lot more experienced and carry extensive self healing and a personal pharmacy. If a TR is the only survivor in a difficult quest, odds are pretty good that you are completing it. That, of course, assumes that a TR has planned and prepared his second and further lives out extensively. TRing without a plan for every level and the finances to back up that plan is irresponsible and unkind to the groups said character finds themselves in (misrepresentation).


Over the weekend I saw a Shroud LFM that read "TR's only." I sent a tell to the leader to ask if I could join with my non-TR rogue, and explained that I have other characters with multiple past lives but that this rogue is on his first life. I never got a response and the LFM was up for another ten or fifteen minutes or so before it filled.


I would wager that they were doing Elite with a maximum level of 19. Most characters simply aren't properly geared for such an endeavor unless they are TRs that have already accrued the gear while they were level 20 in the prior life. This is nothing personal against you, it's just extremely aggravating to fail due to only one weak link in the group.


I just don't get it. I can't think of any reason why I would only want TR's in my group. I certainly prefer good players rather than bad, but in my opinion you are no more likely to encounter a poorly-played character who has no past lives than you are compared to a person with past lives.


Simply put: It comes down to gear and preparation that so separates a TR from a First Life. That, and the XP is much harder to come by for a TR so we like to maximize every point we can get, especially after level 17 (ugh), when we need enough XP to bring a level 1 Champion all the way to level 20 just to advance to the final rank.

[Kmnh]

TRs will stick around for longer. A first life character needs less than half the xp that a legend build needs, so he can't really be part of a semi-static leveling group.

Still, if you look around searching for elitist snobs, you will find them. Projecting and all that...

[Gremmlynn]

Simply put: It comes down to gear and preparation that so separates a TR from a First Life. That, and the XP is much harder to come by for a TR so we like to maximize every point we can get, especially after level 17 (ugh), when we need enough XP to bring a level 1 Champion all the way to level 20 just to advance to the final rank.Cool, until you take into account that any blind monkey can cap a character and join the ranks of the anointed regardless of whether you feel it is irresponsible of them to do so.

[Deathdefy]

"TRs only" doesn't filter well enough. A ludicrous number of TRs haven't done their 20 raid completions / gearing up at 20; they've just TRed for more build points or the monk or wizard active past life.

Clearly, "Legend builds only" is the best way to achieve the desired result.

In all seriousness, I completely agree with people ripping on these groups. Whether someone has a PL or not is a much sillier measure than just asking if they know what they're doing with a "Zergy" / "BYOH" / "Elitist Jerks only" LFM.

[MRMechMan]

If I put up an lfm at all, often it's for entertainment.

I don't put "TR only" generally but can't really blame people for doing that.

Honestly, when some of my friends/guildies put that, often they accept non-TRs anyway-it is more just an indicator of the mentality and speed of the group. And a "filter", if you will.

If you send a tell saying "not a TR, but knows it well and exp'd player" and STILL get rejected because you aren't a 2nd+ lifer, then the leader is a moron.

Also, if you see any endgame content with "TR only", the leader is also a moron. The biggest difference between TRs and non-TRs at low/midgame content is gear/experience. At endgame/cap 1st lifers often have the same gear (or better), the same (or more) experience, skill, etc etc. So putting "elite TOD, TR only" is just stupid, because there are plenty of great/geared first lifers out there at cap.

[Gremmlynn]

"TRs only" doesn't filter well enough. A ludicrous number of TRs haven't done their 20 raid completions / gearing up at 20; they've just TRed for more build points or the monk or wizard active past life.

Clearly, "Legend builds only" is the best way to achieve the desired result.

In all seriousness, I completely agree with people ripping on these groups. Whether someone has a PL or not is a much sillier measure than just asking if they know what they're doing with a "Zergy" / "BYOH" / "Elitist Jerks only" LFM.Which is all the more reason to avoid such groups, as anyone who uses such an ineffective filter likely isn't prepared them self or they would know better than to use it.

[Phemt81]

Do you believe TR's are better Toons?

Corrected for ya, and yes they are :D

[Phemt81]

fast run for maximum xp

Oxymoron detected.

You won't get "maximum" xp doing fast runs, usually having quick runs mean you won't complete optionals and thus get less experience points.

At the contrary, "wasting" time breaking all barrels, disabling all traps, killing all monsters will achieve more xp.

And don't forget breavery streak! ;)

[HungarianRhapsody]

Oxymoron detected.

You won't get "maximum" xp doing fast runs, usually having quick runs mean you won't complete optionals and thus get less experience points.

At the contrary, "wasting" time breaking all barrels, disabling all traps, killing all monsters will achieve more xp.

And don't forget breavery streak! ;)

Because you don't have infinite time to run quests, there is a finite amount of XP that you can earn in a session of DDO. If you want to maximise the amount of XP that you earn in a session, some optionals and some bonuses (conquest/ransack, etc) will be beneficial and some will just reduce the amount of XP that you can earn that night.

Not everything has to be about XP/minute, but it is entirely reasonable to talk about making quick runs to earn the "maximum" XP possible because you are talking about the maximum XP that you can earn in some amount of time.

[Phemt81]

Sorry, forgot to say that i don't like to zerg.

You are right.

[matttherat88]

Why do people post TR's only LFMs? To create reactions like this one.

Why do people post no-noob. know it. ~selective~ LFMs. Same reason.

Oh, the real reason is since they want to be successful at some meaningless game blah blah, don't want to waste their time losing quests LOL.

People hate, they love to make you mad. Give them a chance they will. Some won't, like you they are nice. Many will have a good time with your misery count on it.

[Vint]

Why do people post TR's only LFMs? To create reactions like this one.

Why do people post no-noob. know it. ~selective~ LFMs. Same reason.

Oh, the real reason is since they want to be successful at some meaningless game blah blah, don't want to waste their time losing quests LOL.

People hate, they love to make you mad. Give them a chance they will. Some won't, like you they are nice. Many will have a good time with your misery count on it.

I take no comfort at yelling at anyone, and I have on intentions of making people mad.

Think about this for a minute. If my LFM says know it, and someone joins that dosent know it, dosent BYOH, etc. etc, how am I not to get mad? There are people out there that seem to have no concern when it comes to reading the LFM. They apparently love to make me mad when they -10p me or whe they raise DA just before they die.

In your opinion is it okay for "noob player" to make elitist mad, but it is not okay for elitist to make "noob player" mad?

[matttherat88]

I take no comfort at yelling at anyone, and I have on intentions of making people mad.

Think about this for a minute. If my LFM says know it, and someone joins that dosent know it, dosent BYOH, etc. etc, how am I not to get mad? There are people out there that seem to have no concern when it comes to reading the LFM. They apparently love to make me mad when they -10p me or whe they raise DA just before they die.

In your opinion is it okay for "noob player" to make elitist mad, but it is not okay for elitist to make "noob player" mad?

Seriously, losing at the game makes you mad? really? I'm not sure I believe that.

Not being able to play...having people tell you they don't want to play with you...that is real. Losing some dumb game is not real.

[Vint]

Seriously, losing at the game makes you mad? really? I'm not sure I believe that.

Not being able to play...having people tell you they don't want to play with you...that is real. Losing some dumb game is not real.

This is your opinion. I dont take this game seriously enough to become an alcholoic, I just want to have fun and relax when I play. I deal with incompetent people 8 hours a day, and have no need to deal with them in my free time when I am trying to relax.

Back to the question: In your opinion is it okay for "noob player" to make elitist mad, but it is not okay for elitist to make "noob player" mad?

Silly game or not, I would like to know your view. It has nothing to do with losing the game, it is dealing with the people that have no concern for wasting my time.

[MRMechMan]

Sorry, forgot to say that i don't like to zerg.

You are right.

Basically when you start a TR train you farm a quest till you hit a certain minimum xp/minute.

At least for me, and 90% of the TRs I know, to make the double TR grind palatable it needs to be done quickly-at least while you are in a quest. Time is money, bumbling around at 300-500xp/min I find to be extremely unpleasant when I've done the same quest at 1000-1500xp/minute before. A good zerg with a group that knows it and trivializes content is a beautiful thing.

Getting ransack is often not worth it. Getting conquest is often not worth it. Some optionals are not worth it.

Sometimes they are. After playing the content you realize which are and which are not. Ransack in von3? Yep. Ransack in new ringleader? Nope. Conquest in desert caravan? yep. Conquest in wizking? nope. Optionals in shadow crypt? Yep. Optional at the end of shipwrecked spy? Not so much.

XP/min is way more important than total XP. Maraud the mines gives a lot less XP than coal chamber...but it's also a 0min quest compared to a 20-30+ min one.

[wax_on_wax_off]

There's something to be said for the gear that is available to TR's, raid loot, GS etc makes a big difference to play experience from about level 13+.

Sometimes I want someone who is a vet AND a TR, it's plausible that a non-TR'd vet might fill the spot but in all likelihood such a person would be someone who *thinks* that they are a vet but doesn't necessarily fit the bill.

Like elite crucible today, we had 5 and no healer, LFM was for healer or self sufficient TR, seemed reasonable, we ended up taking a non-TR'd WF Wiz, don't really know how much he contributed but we got through fine anyway (well, not fine, but the issues were unrelated to the class composition in the group).

[alexp80]

Personally... I don't pug.

But I really understand the point of tr-only lfm.

Tr's are quite different from first lifers.
While a vet could play a 1st life toon very good, after lvl 11 or so the scissor between a good tr opens wide.
Thats a matter of gear (gs/raid gear unavailable as first lifer while levelling up).
On my current tr, at lvl 14 (fvs) I have more sp and hp than the cleric that was in a eVon I joined few days ago. I think you get the point.

[a-xp]

TR only =
BYO Healing/Buffs/Wands/Pots
Dont die
Know the quest
Zerg
Multiple runs for exp

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

In its essence, "TR only" looks to me similar to "know it".

[stoerm]

TRing without a plan for every level and the finances to back up that plan is irresponsible and unkind to the groups said character finds themselves in (misrepresentation)

Quote of the week. Perhaps you could set up a True Reincarnate Character Audit and Certification Authority (TR CACA) to weed out those pesky players who dare *gasp* TR without a Plan, and strip them of their wings. Then you could set up a virtual checkpoint at every airship entry and demand TRs produce a CACA certified levelling plan. Perhaps even a sting operation with LFMs to catch bad TRs, and humiliate them publicly on a blacklist of Failed Audit TRs (FAT). Nobody wants to be a FAT CACA.

Disclosure: I am a proud FAT(tm) - accidentally spoke to Brawnpits too early, almost causing a wipe (one guy did rage quit after being burned to death).

P.S. in all fairness he burned to death about 12 times, thanks to the res shrine.

[matttherat88]

This is your opinion. I dont take this game seriously enough to become an alcholoic, I just want to have fun and relax when I play. I deal with incompetent people 8 hours a day, and have no need to deal with them in my free time when I am trying to relax.

Back to the question: In your opinion is it okay for "noob player" to make elitist mad, but it is not okay for elitist to make "noob player" mad?

Silly game or not, I would like to know your view. It has nothing to do with losing the game, it is dealing with the people that have no concern for wasting my time.

Honestly, look at the word's you are using: "incompetent", "noob", "people that have no concern..."

These are hurtful words.

We are not talking about griefers, we are talking about people( in your imagination ) who make honest mistakes. If you can't deal with people making mistakes you need to deal with that on your own.

There is a culture in DDO surrounding the concept of the "n00b". It is based on hate. That is my point.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Quote of the week. Perhaps you could set up a True Reincarnate Character Audit and Certification Authority (TR CACA) to weed out those pesky players who dare *gasp* TR without a Plan, and strip them of their wings. Then you could set up a virtual checkpoint at every airship entry and demand TRs produce a CACA certified levelling plan. Perhaps even a sting operation with LFMs to catch bad TRs, and humiliate them publicly on a blacklist of Failed Audit TRs (FAT). Nobody wants to be a FAT CACA.

Disclosure: I am a proud FAT(tm) - accidentally spoke to Brawnpits too early, almost causing a wipe (one guy did rage quit after being burned to death).

Furthermore, having a plan for each level ends up being less efficient than just winging it in many situations. A while ago I leveled an AC build and spent considerable resources and time getting max gear for each level to be untouchable but in the end it might have just been quicker to not bother. Didn't bother me though, I wasn't trying to break any speed records, I was just having fun :)

[Miacorva]

Nearly had the tea I was drinking explode out of my nose.

+1 to you for bringing a little humour to what was rapidly becoming another one of 'those' threads.

[Bunker]

OP: The reason for LFMs that say TR only is the prequil to this summer's addition of :


COMPLETIONISTS ONLY LFMs

See you this summer!

-Bunk

[hecate355]

Really? In my experience, a lot of TRs are in such a hurry to "win" the game, they generally don't take the time to learn how to play. Frankly, the whole mindset that the game is something best gotten past as quickly as possible just tends to reinforce this trend.

I dont think thats true, there are some worse players among TR-s, just like everywhere else. Once some one reaches level 20 and Tr-s, odds are he learned thing or two while getting there.

It would be silly to claim that some one who has gotten through game 1 to n times is somehow likely to be dumber than the one who hasnt.

Try to keep your exaggerations in control, their purpose is to highlight and give emphasis on some things.

PS. First lifers arent by definition in less hurry to 'win' the game. Imagine, you are on first life char and first time climbing up to 20, you havent seen everything yet, the more eager you are to reach new content/character options and see new things.

[gallantian]

I always get a kick out of these threads when people talk about time wasting. Really, isn't playing ano mmo nothing more than a time waster? My free time is not always that valueable, if it were I wouldn't spend it playing ano online game, but I digress...

In my opinion, a better way to gauge a player who may hit your lfm might be how much favor they have.
My lfms will now read "Must have over 2000 favor to join, screenshot required, send to ]mylfm999@hotmail .com"

Edited to make fake email 'not a link' lol

[Eleia]

I always get a kick out of these threads when people talk about time wasting. Really, isn't playing ano mmo nothing more than a time waster? My free time is not always that valueable, if it were I wouldn't spend it playing ano online game, but I digress...

In my opinion, a better way to gauge a player who may hit your lfm might be how much favor they have.
My lfms will now read "Must have over 2000 favor to join, screenshot required, send to mylfm999@hotmail.com"

lol and then put it up for a ww group at level 5.

[gallantian]

lol and then put it up for a ww group at level 5.

I like the way you think :)

[Phemt81]

Basically when you start a TR train you farm a quest till you hit a certain minimum xp/minute.


I am stating my opinions in this forum starting from the standpoint that i have the right to have a personal opinion about ddo (or whatever else) even if it differs from the one many have.

When i am talking among adults i don't need to clarify the above (not saying you are not an adult).

Said this, i can say that i am a TR and i still like to hear the DM talking, to check out for hidden rooms, chests, optionals.

Diving underwater avoiding the spikes just to get some trash loot and +10 xp.

I don't play DDO just for the sake of the grind itself, i play cause i like it, and i like to feel immerged in the quest i am doing and see every angle/room/chest of it.

Of course, all of this does not count when i am favor farming a level 5 quest with a level 20 TR toon. It is obvious.

Also, if you consider xp per quest (like me) and not per minute (like everybody else) you realize that my previous post can't just be contradicted; i mean, ransack, conquest and flawless bonuses give more xp, and you need time to achieve those.

Thanks for reading :)

[Gremmlynn]

I take no comfort at yelling at anyone, and I have on intentions of making people mad.

Think about this for a minute. If my LFM says know it, and someone joins that dosent know it, dosent BYOH, etc. etc, how am I not to get mad? There are people out there that seem to have no concern when it comes to reading the LFM. They apparently love to make me mad when they -10p me or whe they raise DA just before they die.

In your opinion is it okay for "noob player" to make elitist mad, but it is not okay for elitist to make "noob player" mad?Believe it or not, but few if any players log in to please you and yelling at them because of it just makes you look bad. A bit of advice, if the incompetence of unknown players makes you mad, avoid pugging. I wont say this is either a good or bad thing, it's just the simple truth. Yes there are people out there who have no concern with reading the LFM because they simply don't care if it ticks you off. They don't log in to please you, they log in to please themselves and they are in most cases not held accountable for what effect that has on others, so why should they care?

[gavijal]

TBh I grouped with some really bad TRs, even Legends. I dont know if they bought the account or dont know how to play that class or just bad players. Few days ago I saw TR wizzy casting Ice storm on stair in TOD wile tanking shadows..ofc 1 shadow saved and many more. TR for me doesnt mean that some1 can play.

[MRMechMan]

TBh I grouped with some really bad TRs, even Legends. I dont know if they bought the account or dont know how to play that class or just bad players. Few days ago I saw TR wizzy casting Ice storm on stair in TOD wile tanking shadows..ofc 1 shadow saved and many more. TR for me doesnt mean that some1 can play.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Ice_Storm

[Gremmlynn]

In its essence, "TR only" looks to me similar to "know it".I suppose, if by "it" you mean their account's password. Because it takes very little knowledge beyond that to get to level 20.

[gavijal]

http://ddowiki.com/page/Ice_Storm

I know what ice storm is I have TR-ed Wizard :P And I know that shadow was on group

[Xeraphim]

In its essence, "TR only" looks to me similar to "know it".


The phrase "know it" still draws in too many failbuilds, undergears and "I desperately need a healer to constantly refill my red bar and I do not have pots ever" characters. Thus, "TR Only."

The "know it" groups also have a distinct problem of luring in those that have no idea what the quest layout is, where to get it, etc and want 5 other people to drag their sorry carcass through the instance in a "Soulstone Tour."

I tried to find the Soulstone Tours program from 2006's DDO Forums but it appears to have gotten deleted.

Know this: If your character is not a TR but is well geared and prepared, you will be asked on entry with the lead's mouse hovering over "remove" what your main is or to identify a well known TR from Epic groups. If they don't know who you are, you get kicked.

[Gremmlynn]

The phrase "know it" still draws in too many failbuilds, undergears and "I desperately need a healer to constantly refill my red bar and I do not have pots ever" characters. Thus, "TR Only."

The "know it" groups also have a distinct problem of luring in those that have no idea what the quest layout is, where to get it, etc and want 5 other people to drag their sorry carcass through the instance in a "Soulstone Tour."

I tried to find the Soulstone Tours program from 2006's DDO Forums but it appears to have gotten deleted.

Know this: If your character is not a TR but is well geared and prepared, you will be asked on entry with the lead's mouse hovering over "remove" what your main is or to identify a well known TR from Epic groups. If they don't know who you are, you get kicked.And "TRs Only" means those same players have 20+ levels experience of being pulled through quests by 5 other players. The only effective way to avoid that situation is to simply not pug as TRing in no way separates the "good" players from the "bad".

[Chai]

"TR only" is the new "minimum HP required."

Now that people can cover up their questionable builds with high HP totals, we then act like having TR wings is an indicator of a decent build and quality play. We will never learn.

[Chai]

The phrase "know it" still draws in too many failbuilds, undergears and "I desperately need a healer to constantly refill my red bar and I do not have pots ever" characters. Thus, "TR Only."

The "know it" groups also have a distinct problem of luring in those that have no idea what the quest layout is, where to get it, etc and want 5 other people to drag their sorry carcass through the instance in a "Soulstone Tour."

I tried to find the Soulstone Tours program from 2006's DDO Forums but it appears to have gotten deleted.

Know this: If your character is not a TR but is well geared and prepared, you will be asked on entry with the lead's mouse hovering over "remove" what your main is or to identify a well known TR from Epic groups. If they don't know who you are, you get kicked.

Thats all fine and dandy now, but what happens is attrition at the high end occurs alot faster than it does the low end. Those who turn the game into work get burned out alot faster than those still having fun being noobs at the low end. Eventually that attrition reaches a level where you HAVE TO PUG in order to fill raids up, which is right when the hilarity ensues. Players who have these overblown expectations then try to enforce the same expectations on those they were unwilling to teach over years of time. Then the realization suddenly occurs that they are laying in the bed they themselves made.

[Ancient]

"TR only" is the new "minimum HP required."

My elitest LFM is Bat, Scorpion, Snake, Octopus, Monkey, Wolf

And no... I don't select the quest :)

[illusion28]

I think that when someones puts up a "TR only" or some crappy specification is because he/she actually is not a team player. I've seen noobs been kicked out of groups just because they need help. Come on, who wasn't like that at first? If you never needed help in a quest, or someone to help you understand, then you have my entire respect, because i did, and i really hate when others categorize others like that.

TR doesn't mean good player, just probably means more stats and better gear, but still as killable as a noob, sometimes even faster since noobs are so scared of dying... or well 1rst lifers...

I have around 4 TR's and I just like to play, there's enough XP in the game to get, there's enough runs to do, so why not if you're so AWESOME, help others? not saying you should, just saying you shoudln't forget it's a freaking game and you once needed help too.. SO HAVE FUN!..

If they're paying you to play.. please gimme the number or email of that person, i want in!!!, if not.. then just have fun... remember.. G A M E....

[danotmano1998]

My elitest LFM is Bat, Scorpion, Snake, Octopus, Monkey, Wolf

And no... I don't select the quest :)

That's actually a really good idea. Anyone that has no idea what you're referring to will either avoid it, or make it obvious by asking.

[78mackson]

I totally understand the logic, even thou I don't really apply it to my own LFM's, or really care about deaths etc..
Never pug something you can't solo-mentality, but why PUG? Soloing is boring as hell and some quests are hard/impossible to solo on certain toons; read melee. Usually at least one of the applicants is an able person.


For anyone who posts LFM's that read "TR's only", I just wanted to ask what the rationale is behind them?

To get equal minded people who will contribute to the quest and knows where it is? Some 'khortos-victims' are just a walking -10% Exp.

I.E. The other day I met a bard who was build for only buffing, while standing still... he also missed one of the quest completions in the series we did. the others in that pug was more on the same page...



I'm not trying to criticize; anyone can post whatever they want on an LFM. But I'm curious why you restrict your LFM to TR's only.

TR's will not be so overjoyed of completing an elite quest, they also need to farm it a bit, 1.9 million XP, mr Khortos, is happy and leaves the group which usually leads to mass exodus... getting a good xp-group running has been very hard lately, I've noticed. The LFMs are flourishing but the concept of hunting XP isn't really there....


Do you believe TR's are better players? Do you want to make sure all optionals are hit so you get the maximum XP possible and you think non-TR's won't appreciate that?

TR's are in general better players, since they are old timers; they have 'been there and done that'. No reason to build a toon from scratch anymore so 1.9 million XP players are more than likely a new player with very little grasp of game mechanics or pre-knowledge of quests or the reasoning of repeating a quest.

[Phemt81]

/shrug I wouldn't worry about it until you get someone's group of friends following you around neg reping you to "support" them.

You said that, not me :rolleyes:


As I've experienced it, simply holding a different opinion than another person is considered "harassing, trolling and problematic" on this forum.

Wwwwwwwwelcome to my sig! :D

Lame that moderators agree on that.

[Chai]

My elitest LFM is Bat, Scorpion, Snake, Octopus, Monkey, Wolf

And no... I don't select the quest :)

When youre in gianthold do you put up an LFM for "pleeeaaase, heeelp!!! on ELITE - currently in "Protect Patrick the Maniacal at all costs!!! IP" ? :p

[Gremmlynn]

TR's are in general better players, since they are old timers; they have 'been there and done that'. No reason to build a toon from scratch anymore so 1.9 million XP players are more than likely a new player with very little grasp of game mechanics or pre-knowledge of quests or the reasoning of repeating a quest.A few weeks playing the game makes one an "old timer" now? I'm guessing most who are on the TR only band wagon don't belong to guilds actively recruiting new players or they would have lost their preconceived notions of how much experience it takes to get there.

[Chai]

TR's will not be so overjoyed of completing an elite quest, they also need to farm it a bit, 1.9 million XP, mr Khortos, is happy and leaves the group which usually leads to mass exodus... getting a good xp-group running has been very hard lately, I've noticed. The LFMs are flourishing but the concept of hunting XP isn't really there....

Ive experienced the opposite. Since bravery bonus, the number of XP hunting groups has risen. The people who used to just solo normals in rapid succession now run elites in groups more often.


TR's are in general better players, since they are old timers; they have 'been there and done that'. No reason to build a toon from scratch anymore so 1.9 million XP players are more than likely a new player with very little grasp of game mechanics or pre-knowledge of quests or the reasoning of repeating a quest.

Stereotypically youd think so, but Im surprised at how often TR wings around ones name is not a true indicator of ability or build strength.

TRing is not just the mark of the elite endgamer. Its also done by quite a few casual gamers who would rather have one strong toon that they refine over quite a bit of time rather than a case of alt itis that leads to a bunch of level 10ish toons filling character slots they no longer use. I know some players on each of the servers I play on who have one toon and thats it, and they are all multiple lives in. Two are completionist who are now running up multiple lives of the same classes to get the 3x stacked passive past lives.

[Stormraiser]

Seriously, losing at the game makes you mad? really? I'm not sure I believe that.

Not being able to play...having people tell you they don't want to play with you...that is real. Losing some dumb game is not real.

Disagree.
Losing a quest because everyone tried and failed is fine and fun.
Losing a quest and learning is fine and fun.
Losing a quest because someone ran forward by themselves and spoke to the dwarf in Von5, or ran into Velah in Von 6 by themselves is clearly not very fun.
Having someone join an LFM that says Ataraxia elite quests IP, who doesn't know where Ataraxia is (that is fine, go here for the teleport, and here is a copy paste of the URL for the Ataraxia map) arrives there 10 minutes into it. Dies twice trying to get to the quest and then drops group is slightly annoying. Especially if someone else wanted to join, but that person took the last spot.
Having finished 2/3rds of a quest with 4 people, having a 5 person walk in, veer off the main path toward a side chest and die is a detriment. Happens in Tempest spine IP runs all the time. Often the person is even told to hold on a moment, someone will return for you.
Having a pure level 7 rogue insist he will do the traps only to watch him die or blow it up on elite. The other rogue splashes had no problems doing the traps. How fun is the soulstone express?

By default a TR is not a better play. But he is guaranteed (well almost) to:
Have have ran a good portion of the quests to reach cap.
If he didn't know about heavy fort, he probably had someone tell him about it in a prior life.
If he didn't know about the magical drow 6 con build, he probably had someone tell him about it in a prior life.
Has some amount of gear and plat.
Has possibly fallen and died in that trap before, and might even remember to avoid it now.

[gavijal]

I(m a TR, but here is one more example of " TR ". Week ago (or 2 cant remember) I saw on LFM : " PLZ help me , first time here " for EDA. I thought , of course no 1 will apply to this group, so I send tell : " m8, thats hard epic, dont put LFM like that, no 1 will come ". Guy thanked me, said he just hit lvl 20 today and that was his first epic. Hmm.. first epic and EDA ( I started with Eclaw : ) ). 3 days from that I saw same guy lvl 7 on LFM for shadow crypt or something :)

[goodspeed]

when you can grind out crystals or any other high paying challange on the fly, then take those ingredients and hella farm epic tokens, tring just became bs.

For instance take something real simple like displace. When displace is on you your survivability just skyrocketed. Course it's a short timer, costs a bit, so I can't blame mages for not casting it again and again it's costly. BUT, it is very available in non large, clicky form ie the shroud weapons.

Now you would think that when someone tr's they would have at least 1 of these made for their next melee life. Sadly they don't. They don't have alot of things. Hell some don't even have a +6 con item. Which is why wings don't mean jack. Name and reputation do.

Saw a tod raid leader looking for a tank on hard. Cause all we had was the robot and some others not built for it. The robot went on saying I can tank it, he had a couple wings on em. The leader listed a slew of reasons why he's rather he not, with the final saying he just didn't know the guy and never saw em in tod before. So he gets some tank everything fine.

Sometime later I jumped in a normal run just for a quick comp. I got to see the double tr robot tank tank tod. We wiped right after the jailer. He jump started it, couldn't hold it, and then everything just died. by the way the other tank that did it on hard was a first lifer. Prolly had good gear and everything to. I'd hope the excuse of the double tr was he just didn't give a **** about gear and not that he won in spades of sheer incompetence after tring twice.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Ive experienced the opposite. Since bravery bonus, the number of XP hunting groups has risen. The people who used to just solo normals in rapid succession now run elites in groups more often.


I'm running my way through a third life on my Wizard. I've ran Delera's part two 4 times and part four 4 times and Shadow Crypt 5 times. I enjoy all of those quests, so it really didn't feel like "farming" at all. I ran VoN-III 4 times and I ran Wiz King 4 additional times on Elite after I solo'd it because people kept asking me to run it with them. :)

I'm on a third life and I've been holding levels ever since level 6. Other than the two Deleras, Shadow Crypt and Wiz King, I haven't run a single quest more than once on Elite and I actually skipped some quests just because I didn't feel like doing them.

Everything once on Elite except for a *very* few specific quests is the new standard up until Gianthold. Chai is absolutely right about this. I expect that most people don't even bother farming Gianthold if they're not on at least their third life and *no one* farms things 9 or 10 times like they used to.

It's so much easier to get a group together for Elite quests than it used to be.

[LOOON375]

I have a 32 pt halfling Rogue that wields daggers. (personal experiment to show any weapon can be effective)

I have joined numerous TR zerg runs simply because I want to level this toon quick. Several times I ended up topping the kill count and carrying stones to shrines for rez, or I scroll rez entire party.

Those are good times.

[MRMechMan]

I know what ice storm is I have TR-ed Wizard :P And I know that shadow was on group

Just saying that ice storm doesn't even have a save. It doesn''t have an initial tick either, but generally it grabs agro FAIRLY well. It's not what I use but it's better than firewall.

Also, if a shadow is on the party it isn't always the tankers fault. Someone spamming AOEs (chain lightning/Level2 airsorc SLA in particular) WILL rip shadow agro, as will a careless manyshotter, and it's very hard to get it back-or even generate enough hate in the first place to overpower an idiot with the group.

[NaturalHazard]

They are hoping it gets them the type of player they want, but tr dosnt always mean competent player some of the worst players ive come accross have been tr's but maybe they think it will weed out the newbs and noobs from hitting their lfm?

[hecate355]

We all prefer certain ways. Have our own criterias, use our own standards.

We can discuss the 'how this game should be played' til death. Truth is, nothing really changes while doing that.

I dont think anyone in forums can seriously 'turn' or 'convert' me into something i aint.

Whether TR only lfm-s are frowned at or encouraged, that doesent make em go away. Whatever was the reasoning behind em first place.

EDIT: Mostly directed towards those 'forceful' people who try to enforce others, declaring whats right or wrong or how things really should be. Said phenomenon is much wider than this thread, DDO or online gaming, existing everywhere you look at.

[Schwarzie]

TR only is by all mean no sure way to get decent players

But at least it increases the CHANCE to weed out the worst garbadge.

I sometimes get the expression that some Newbies just click the BYOH IP TR XPZERG because they are unwilling to read a LFM. If i have a LFM for a Gianthold Quest open and someone enters my group and Asks "which house" he wont type in a second line because i already have kicked him.

And no, the wings dont make sure that you find the players you want, but at least it makes the chance a tiny bit more probable.

At the moment my Tr Barb is staying at lv16 without any progress. I made three attempts to build a group to farm xp in the gianthold, all 3 attempts were basically wasted time and therefore wasted money since i use a XP Pot. When i state a LFM with BYOH and XP Zerg why does a newbie Wizad join me who doesnt even know the way to the quest? Why does a Barbarian join me who dies at the first(!) enemy in Madstone? Why does a newbie Rogue join the group who constantly screams for heals when there are no divines in the group and the LFM clearly stated BYOH? Why does a Ranger want to join my Necro 2 runs when he doesnt even have the most basic clickys if you want to survive there without a cleric in the group?

Why do they feel entiteld to run stuff on Elite the first time they run it at ALL without ANY of the Gear that you should carry if you want to contribute in ANY way to a fast and smooth eliterun?

Why do new players join a elite XPZERG if they dont know the quest and want a tour through it?

I could rant about this for hours, but its useless 99% of all the Idiots that should read these lines arent in the forums and dont care one bit :(

[78mackson]

the BYOH IP TR XPZERG

If you were new to DDO would you know what all of this meant? I wouldn't.. heck first times I saw someone type 'brb BIO'.. I thought he went to the cinemas (which wouldn't make sense at all for a non-swedish player)...

It is not that 'they' can't read, they just do not understand what on earth we old-farts are saying.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

Any PUG having "TR" in it is a good way to let me keep away from that group.
The only exception are the members of the Guild I'm in. I know them and how they are.

[Schwarzie]

If you were new to DDO would you know what all of this meant? I wouldn't.. heck first times I saw someone type 'brb BIO'.. I thought he went to the cinemas (which wouldn't make sense at all for a non-swedish player)...

It is not that 'they' can't read, they just do not understand what on earth we old-farts are saying.
Of course i wouldnt. And because i wouldnt i just send the tell and ask. Thats the way i did it each time i encountered a unknown abbreviation. I was never cussed down for such a thing and always got an explanation.