Aggro issues when using bluff/deception

[Isharah]

On deception
Boss is being tanked. Toon's deception item procs. Boss turns around and attacks other people.

On bluff
Boss is being tanked. Toon uses bluff. Boss turns around and attacks other people.

I was told this aggro problem may be due to the change they made that when the monster has pathing issues, it switches target to something it can actually hit. Since raid bosses are usually boxed in, instead of staring blankly on a successful deception/bluff like they used to, they attack other people instead.

Anybody else having problems with this?

[EatSmart]

Deception and bluff put a movement ai override on the target of "go to attack range of the person top of your hate list, turn around and give them flanking". This is easiest to observe on rooted mobs (eg hold, ottos, storyline). What's less clear is what happens to the mob's hate list, particularly with bosses. Nobody has conclusively demonstrated if it can wipe agro or not. Regardless, bluff and deception are still extremely bad in boss encounters, where said boss will still do "crazy fun things".

[Glenalth]

I've had two instances of this happen in the last week where someone was wearing improved deception while I was tanking and it was driving me absolutely crazy trying to figure out what was wrong or what gear I forgot to equip.

Now I don't mind the deception/imp deception items doing that, but at least put some sort of information in the description of the effect that mentions it will make mobs turn when it procs.

[Kmnh]

I have never seen that happen. We even have our half elf fighters with dilletante feats abuse the improved deception procs while tanking.

Diplomacy, the other skill that rogues take to shed aggro, is designed to mess with the hate table. If you see som eone using that in a raid, call them out on it.

[Jaid314]

I have never seen that happen. We even have our half elf fighters with dilletante feats abuse the improved deception procs while tanking.

Diplomacy, the other skill that rogues take to shed aggro, is designed to mess with the hate table. If you see som eone using that in a raid, call them out on it.

there's no need to yell at a rogue for using diplomacy. it lowers *their* aggro, and only their aggro. nobody else's. the only person you should yell at for using diplomacy is the tank, if you have one.

(note: some people will argue that this can sometimes result in aggro being shed onto a divine or arcane, and that this is a bad thing. personally, on my arcane, i don't consider aggro to be a problem. i don't have a divine, but they generally *should* be perfectly capable of taking care of themselves anyways, so i really don't see the problem. in all likelihood, an arcane or divine who has aggro has more ways to deal with an aggro'd mob than the rogue did, as a general rule)

[Astraghal]

According to the folks in this thread (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=359450&highlight=deception&page=10), the Deception effect has been fixed for ages.

[Kmnh]

there's no need to yell at a rogue for using diplomacy. it lowers *their* aggro, and only their aggro. nobody else's. the only person you should yell at for using diplomacy is the tank, if you have one.

(note: some people will argue that this can sometimes result in aggro being shed onto a divine or arcane, and that this is a bad thing. personally, on my arcane, i don't consider aggro to be a problem. i don't have a divine, but they generally *should* be perfectly capable of taking care of themselves anyways, so i really don't see the problem. in all likelihood, an arcane or divine who has aggro has more ways to deal with an aggro'd mob than the rogue did, as a general rule)

Diplomacy still works in the old way. When you use diplomacy, the boss will attack someone else for 6 seconds, and then come right back to you. I know it because I tried it (and almost wiped my party :D)

[Orratti]

The only problem I've ever encountered with deception is while ranging. When it procs it pulls the aggro directly to you where upon reaching you it turns it's back to you...maybe. More often though the effect wears off right about the time it reaches you and then you are face to face with it with a range weapon in your hand.

While meleeing when it procs the enemy will turn it's back directly to you so if you are doing a boss fight or any other fight and are standing to the right or the left of the tank instead of directly on the other side of the enemy from the tank it would appear to the tank that the aggro has suddenly shifted off of him onto someone to his right or left. I could also see that if standing directly across from the tank for a moment it might do a complete circle, 1st to face the deception user then back to the tank.

If you're a tank using deception, well, that's just plain silly...maybe. I could also see that possibly being useful as you still have or can recover the aggro and have for a brief time a monster with a confused look on his face wondering why he would turn his back on his most hated enemy and give him a flanking bonus. He might during that time not attack anyone at all but op says otherwise so I'll go with that. If the consensus is that that is the case obviously a tank using deception would indeed be silly.

You don't really need to add in deception's discription that when it procs enemies will turn their back to you. It's pretty easy to figure that out when you see it happen once or twice. It would be a good idea to either use some other weapon or let a tank know you're using it so they won't be wondering what in the world is going on. Usually people will tell you not to use it if you have it for a boss fight although I agree with Knmh that it probably doesn't make a difference.

[Orratti]

Diplomacy still works in the old way. When you use diplomacy, the boss will attack someone else for 6 seconds, and then come right back to you. I know it because I tried it (and almost wiped my party :D)

Now that's how you learn stuff right there.

[changelingamuck]

Diplomacy still works in the old way. When you use diplomacy, the boss will attack someone else for 6 seconds, and then come right back to you. I know it because I tried it (and almost wiped my party :D)

The "someone else" who gets attacked by the boss after diplo is used is not randomly selected though. The person who gets the boss' aggro after someone uses diplomacy is the person who had acquired the 2nd highest amount of hate from the boss. If everyone was playing their roles before diplomacy was used... the boss then will aggro on... the tank.

That's what you want. There's no reason to not use diplomacy to shed aggro when someone is tanking a boss. There's certainly no reason to yell at someone for using it (or bluff or deception weapons for that matter).

If your party wiped after you shed boss aggro with diplomacy, you should talk to whoever was doing too much dps or lacking threat reduction gear for their class role. You could tell them to invest in diplomacy to give aggro back to the tank for instance...

[Kmnh]

The "someone else" who gets attacked by the boss after diplo is used is not randomly selected though. The person who gets the boss' aggro after someone uses diplomacy is the person who had acquired the 2nd highest amount of hate from the boss. If everyone was playing their roles before diplomacy was used... the boss then will aggro on... the tank.

That's what you want. There's no reason to not use diplomacy to shed aggro when someone is tanking a boss. There's certainly no reason to yell at someone for using it (or bluff or deception weapons for that matter).

If your party wiped after you shed boss aggro with diplomacy, you should talk to whoever was doing too much dps or lacking threat reduction gear for their class role. You could tell them to invest in diplomacy to give aggro back to the tank for instance...

That's not how aggro swipes usually happen.


You are doing ToD. The main tank went incapacitated. Horoth turn around, dropped 3 melee hits and a meteor swarm before people spread out. The second person in the hate table gets chased by horoth and dies before the healers figure out anything. everyone is spread out and shield blocking, trying to figure out whos next on the hate table. The sorcerer sees the huge pit fiend coming after him and uses diplomacy, hoping to shed his aggro into a melee. It works. Horoth starts attacking the melee, the divines are spamming heals on him, it seems like horoth is back under control... Then he goes right back to the Sorcerer. It would have been cheaper for the party if the sorcerer shield-blocked and hoped for the best. Even if he died, he would waste less of the divines' SP.