Let's Talk: New Korthos Dungeon Master

[Melange]

Greetings <strike>DDOnians</strike> <strike>DDOites</strike> <strike>DDOtiates</strike> personages of extreme personatude!
My name is Ryon, and I am one of the newest content designers here on the DDO team. I really enjoy D&D and working here on DDO, so I hope you will all look forward to some of my content in the upcoming expansion. Let’s see, what else can I say about myself to give an idea of who I am and what I’m about?

Ninjas > Pirates
I am an epic level pun-o-mancer
My favorite D&D Monster is the second edition Invisible Stalker (It has the best image in any Monstrous Manual)


And that’s a bit of yours truly. Nice to meet you all! I have ulterior motives for introducing myself today, and that’s because I’d like to pick your brains about one of our newer projects…

Some of you may have noticed new Dungeon Master text and objectives that have sprouted up in Korthos Island as of Update 13. Obviously Korthos is pretty straight forward, but the idea is that we would expand this technique to other public areas in the future once we’re confident in the implementation. Let’s get started!

Newer Players

Was it helpful for finding your way?
Was it easier to follow along with the story of what happens in Korthos?
Did it help immerse you deeper into what was happening with the Korthos storyline?
Was it distracting, and if so, what specifically was distracting?
If you used it in Korthos, do you feel like you missed it once you reached the Harbor and no longer had it?
If it ISN’T helpful, what is it lacking?
Is there anything that it’s doing particularly well that you want to see more of?


Veteran Players

Did you notice it, and if so, did you try to follow along with it?
Did it help you to understand anything about the Korthos story you may have missed when you played it previously?
If it ISN’T helpful, what is it lacking?
Is there anything that it’s doing particularly well that you want to see more of?

[cdbd3rd]

Hi! Welcome. ...aboard. :)



(Woohoo! First!) :rolleyes:






Ninjas > Pirates
No. CNR>ninjas>pirates>Chuck Norris ...( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLnapb-30hA&ob=av2e )
I am an epic level pun-o-mancer
You will be loved, or hated. Nothing in between.

My favorite D&D Monster is the second edition Invisible Stalker (It has the best image in any Monstrous Manual)
BLASPHEMY!! MM1 Succubus was pure FTW.




*Ahem!* Corrections above in greenisness.

But moving along...



Veteran Players

Did you notice it, and if so, did you try to follow along with it?
Did it help you to understand anything about the Korthos story you may have missed when you played it previously?
If it ISN’T helpful, what is it lacking?
Is there anything that it’s doing particularly well that you want to see more of?



Been a while since I've been out there, so will go look and return later with something returnableworthy.

edit:

Didn't play all the way thru the Island, but must say that those doubled DM voices at Jeets (being the first stop for newbs) is gonna set a bad First Impression on folks. Good overall idea for the fresh newbs hitting the island, otherwise.
Would not care to see too much of this kind of mentoring further along. Maybe some in Harbor to help newbs transition, but not in/beyond Marketplace. Exception to that = STK, as it falls in behind WW.

[geoffhanna]

Now I regret skipping the storyline when I TR'd a couple of days ago :(

[madmaxhunter]

I'm a vet, TRed with two guildies, we really liked the changes. Not necessary for us of course but we felt that it's less confusing for just-off-the-boat newbs.

[brightfang]

I noticed this DM guidance bugs if you made a toon before Update 13, completed the Grotto, completed Kaja's quest and then stopped playing said toon until after Update 13, at which point you log in and The Dungeon Master tells you to "Help Kaja with her troubles" even though you already did. Otherwise, very well done! I love Korthos and this helps with the storyline.

[Hutoth]

Veteran Players

Did you notice it, and if so, did you try to follow along with it? Yes and Yes
Did it help you to understand anything about the Korthos story you may have missed when you played it previously? I'm sure it would have, had I not understood.
If it ISN’T helpful, what is it lacking? This, everywhere.
Is there anything that it’s doing particularly well that you want to see more of? More meta-quest DM'ing, I like it.


Cool, hi, welcome.

[cheekysmile]

Hola

I noticed it but have ran Korthos to death in the past so i don't really think there was much else to miss.

Reckon it's a good idea though as i still remember the very first time i logged on and explored (smashed every barrel and everything for the pick ups, oh the time i wasted on that). The hook that got me was that you could get immersed in the storyline so any improvements to that the better.

I think once you start to group with others and invariably group with those that run the game on auto pilot, you tend to lose the whole notion that you're on a grand campaign. I had no idea what the hell shroud was about the first time i ran it, just followed everyone else.

Better signposting and immersion can only be good for the game i reckon. I'd love to redo a lot of the stuff for the first time and really get into the story again. Bit numb to it now.

Please no really long sequences that you can't skip through though. If i have to listen to the Lord of Eyes rant about chess one more time i won't be responsible for my actions.....

[Avidus]

My favorite D&D Monster is the second edition Invisible Stalker (It has the best image in any Monstrous Manual)
Yes. Yes it does.

[Feralthyrtiaq]

...I get the same feeling of nostalgia every time I TR and get asked "OI, You'e Awake!....."

But...

was level 13 on life 4 when U13 hit so will have to let you know in a few days ;) (a Fuzz into Rank 89 and holding....)

[danotmano1998]

My name is Ryon, and I am one of the newest content designers here on the DDO team. I really enjoy D&D and working here on DDO, so I hope you will all look forward to some of my content in the upcoming expansion.


Awesome! Welcome to the fold, and yes, I do indeed look forward to some of the new content. Vigorously.



Veteran Players

Did you notice it, and if so, did you try to follow along with it?
Did it help you to understand anything about the Korthos story you may have missed when you played it previously?
If it ISN’T helpful, what is it lacking?
Is there anything that it’s doing particularly well that you want to see more of?


Yes, I noticed it. Frankly, I was very impressed. The new voice overs and guides are a huge boon, IMO. I thought it was AWESOME when I heard how the village had heard of my exploits and suggested I visit the local tavern.

Brilliant work. Bravo!!

I found myself thinking "Wow, how come more quests aren't worked this way??" and "As a newer player, this would have been GREAT!! How come it wasn't around back then?"

Yes, In my opinion it helped the storyline quite a bit. There was more immersion! Bonus!

The only thing negative I can mention is that it did not progress the storyline past talking to the captain of the ship. A minor bug, really. I already knew where to go.

[psteen1]

I didn't like how the new DM and the old DM both tried talking at the same time. It did a number on my ears. Specifically, I believed this happened as I was entering Heyton's Rest (that's the first dungeon, right?)

[Phemt81]

...I get the same feeling of nostalgia every time I TR and get asked "OI, You'e Awake!....."

"Can you move?" :D

[Ninety]

Greetings <strike>DDOnians</strike> <strike>DDOites</strike> <strike>DDOtiates</strike> personages of extreme personatude!
My name is Ryon, and I am one of the newest content designers here on the DDO team. I really enjoy D&D and working here on DDO, so I hope you will all look forward to some of my content in the upcoming expansion. Let’s see, what else can I say about myself to give an idea of who I am and what I’m about?

Ninjas > Pirates
I am an epic level pun-o-mancer
My favorite D&D Monster is the second edition Invisible Stalker (It has the best image in any Monstrous Manual)


Veteran Players

Did you notice it, and if so, did you try to follow along with it?
Did it help you to understand anything about the Korthos story you may have missed when you played it previously?
If it ISN’T helpful, what is it lacking?
Is there anything that it’s doing particularly well that you want to see more of?


Hi Welcome

I saw the new text in korthos when I TR'ed.
I'm sorry, but I ignored it completely. I went with the lowest xp quest to the highest xp quest in korthos area when I'm there to build up streak, and the DM text doesn't go in that order.

[luvirini]

Played a while so replying to the veteran part:


>Veteran Players
>Did you notice it, and if so, did you try to follow along with it?

Followed it a bit, not the whole run

>Did it help you to understand anything about the Korthos story you may have missed when you played it previously?

No, but then I have done korthos more than hundred times sofar...

>If it ISNT helpful, what is it lacking?

I think that it is extremely helpful for someone new, but if you can do something with your eyes closed it is not that helpful.

>Is there anything that its doing particularly well that you want to see more of?

Tying together the storyline from multiple quests as a sort of "master quest".

It would be nice if there were similar master quests for the many story lines in DDO. Though a simple journal type thing with chapters like quest lines have would likely be enough. The individual quest lines would then be the chapters of that master quest.

[dejafu]

I noticed this just last night when I TR'd for the first time since the new update. While I did what many others did and quickly rushed off to Stormreach for the high XP quests, I actually got curious enough after an hour or two to go back and run the basic quests on Korthos.

After trying it out, I can say that this is a GREAT idea that was implemented VERY well. I know a lot of people complain that DDO doesn't have much in the way of story going on because they don't have the time or inclination to read the dialogue boxes. The new DM narration gives just enough information to show the underlying coherence of the story and tell you WHY you now need to go talk to the guy in the tavern for your next quest, etc. Many quest chains in DDO (of all levels) could benefit tremendously from implementing something similar (Delera's and Threnal, I'm looking at YOU).

Oh, and good choice for the voice actress as well. She and the British guy are my personal favorites (I still make it a point to turn on DM audio whenever running Lord of Blades just to hear "But perhaps there is ANOTHER way to reach the upper level!!").

[waterboytkd]

Veteran Players

Did you notice it, and if so, did you try to follow along with it?
Did it help you to understand anything about the Korthos story you may have missed when you played it previously?
If it ISN’T helpful, what is it lacking?
Is there anything that it’s doing particularly well that you want to see more of?


I did notice it, but I didn't try to follow it. Even then, I barely noticed it. I've run Korthos so much (most of my guildies skip it when they TR, but I love Korthos, so I run it every time), that I'm on auto-pilot. I noticed the new box in the corner of my screen, telling me where to go, and I noticed the green arrows, but that's about it.

It wasn't helpful, but not because it lacked anything, but because if there's one thing I don't need, it's a guide for Korthos. That said, I can say that it didn't detract from anything while running Korthos, either. So, at least from this player's perspective, though it doesn't help veterans or Korthos (isn't there a guild with that name?), it also isn't obtrusive or annoying.

[Dandonk]

Hi and welcome :)

I ran through Korthos recently on a TR, and yes I noticed the new DM stuff. While it didn't tell me anything I didn't know, I think this is a great addition. I have several RL friends who have stopped playing DDO, in part because they don't know where to go and what to do. This should be a great help to newer players trying out the game for the first time, and prevent other newer players from feeling lost.

It didn't detract from my own experience in any way, so /thumbs_up

[THAC0]

Nice to see a new Dev on the boards. Looking forward to some new content too!

My fav critter is the Flumph :-)

Thac0

[dejafu]

Oh, and one other thing... if you ever get around to implementing this in the Inspired Quarter, please just flat-out replace the current DM narrator in there. It's embarrassing how TERRIBLE the voice acting is for those quests. Not funny-bad like the male narrator doing the female "prisoner's" voice in Cry for Help, just BAD-bad.

[Tholar]

Greetings <strike>DDOnians</strike> <strike>DDOites</strike> <strike>DDOtiates</strike> personages of extreme personatude!



Greetings nerds. If they don't accept it at this point, they are fooling themselves.

Signed,

one big nerd.

[Psiandron]

Hey Melange,

Welcome aboard. I'm sure you'll spice things up around here... Bwhahaha...I kill me.

Sorry I can't provide feedback on the newest Korthos changes. I haven't been out there that recently.

Ninjas are better than pirates, but the Succubus pic was way the best.

[waterboytkd]

"Can you move?" :D

"Talk to me!"

[Tholar]

Unfortunately, I know a lot of vets who won't hear this because of the way sound works in this game.

You have to turn everything way down to hear voice chat, some just turn off DM voices all together.

I personally turn mine on for 'a cry for help' every time.

[yawumpus]

Include my hi and welcome!

I'm afraid that crafting may mean that those hitting 1750 favor and making a stable of veteran alts won't be bothered to go back to Korthos and pick up the goodies (they may want the non-BB favor for those bank accounts, and I doubt ranger and barbarian get the archivist necklace free).

I noticed that lama had issues if you did the quests out of order, but this has been fixed. I am convinced that storehouse should be done first, crystal likely second, and finally the crypt. Partially due to ramping up in percieved difficulty (and the crypt appearing much larger to newbies), and partially to get newbies to think in terms of picking quests in terms of rewards (assuming they have been there before and know the static tables). I will admit that the new voiceovers make the crypt a better starting place.

Finally, can you fix the remaining "features" in Misery's Peak? These issues were put in to make Korthos a "gold farmer jail" to make it less profitable to create new accounts after current gold farmers were banned. After turbine managed to send the gold farmers to Spammerwrath, they allowed players to freely leave Korthos (to get mail, switch to sunny Korthos, grab free bags, etc.). This leaves Misery's Peak as a griefable quest right were previously banned individuals can mix with those less addicted to DDO. It is long past due to remove the "you must gather your party before venturing forth" issue (in DDO "I won't leave anyone behind).



BLASPHEMY!! MM1 Succubus was pure FTW.
Any truth to the old saw about D&D encouraging devil worship was largely due to her.

[Felyxe]

Greetings and welcome to DDO!

Regarding your questions:

I am a long-time player who recently started a new character with two friends who are new to DDO. The new system was extremely helpful in leading them through Korthos, as it adds a great sense of guidance that I can appreciate as a veteran of the game.

To re-iterate what some posters have previously mentioned, the DM voice-over outside of the dungeons was a superb idea that immersed me all the more into the storyline of Korthos. I felt as if our little rag-tag group was having a real effect on the in-game world, and I look forward to seeing this system expanded in the future.

The only unfortunate aspect of this new system is that is disappears once you leave Korthos. One of my friends voiced some confusion as to what to do next, but thankfully I was there to help him out. I believe that implementing this system could not only be logistically beneficial to new players, but could also further immerse them in the world of Stormreach and Eberron (especially with the proper use of new DM narration outside of dungeons).

All in all: Great system that should be expanded.

[houxer1]

not sure if this would apply for this thread but seeing that its Kothos island there is a quest where you have to protect someone from the sanguin. there is a alternate path in there that is blocked from proceding with a blue barrier and looks like there is a clickable door that is impossible to open where you save that guy. i was hoping that at some point this would open up or become available to explore either a higher level or maybe something that can be achieved for those who TR? making it some secret that is rewarded to those who do TR and since there are more doing it now it would be a nice gift!!!!

[Melange]

Hey everyone!

Thanks for the words of welcome!

Also, I'm happy to hear that people are getting a chance to see this new system and that it's getting pretty positive results. We will definitely be looking into the bugs/glitches mentioned above (we already got one of them put in the queue for things that we need to get taken care of before we expand the system further).

We definitely want to get this put into all the areas of the game if we can (obviously the pace of this will be based on how many people we can get working on it at any given time).

And yes, getting to hear the voice work was an incredible pleasure - I had put the lines in and was reading them to myself over and over, but getting to hear it for the first time was great. Obviously there are no guarantees we'll be able to get her for every region, but personally, I hope we can.

Thanks again, everyone!


(P.S. I'm sad <strike> didn't work here. It was supposed to strikethrough the text, but I guess HTML is blocked here. Ah well, better things to do than going back and editing it all)

[Fefnir_2011]

Veteran Players

Did you notice it, and if so, did you try to follow along with it?
Did it help you to understand anything about the Korthos story you may have missed when you played it previously?
If it ISN’T helpful, what is it lacking?
Is there anything that it’s doing particularly well that you want to see more of?


Hello, and welcome! Always nice to see another dev on the forums



I did notice it, and I followed along with it when i TR'd my Wizard recently.

It certainly elaborated on the storyline, and in fact I think it might be too helpful. Sometimes the narration can get a bit, "HMMM, I FOUND A CREST SHAPED LIKE A BAT, WASN'T THERE A BAT-SHAPED HOLE IN THE WALL 3 ROOMS BACK WINK WINK NUDGE NUDGE", but I suppose those sort of narrations are good for early levels where people aren't likely to understand certain game mechanics.

One thing i think it is lacking is a bit more exposition. I can't get enough exposition personally, and I always love to hear more story about this great playground you've built for us. :D

The check boxes on the overworld was a pretty nice feature, it gives a real sense of flow to an otherwise open world setting. I also enjoyed the elaboration on the story, and I think more narrative flow would be nice.

[Avidus]

<snip>
(P.S. I'm sad <strike> didn't work here. It was supposed to strikethrough the text, but I guess HTML is blocked here. Ah well, better things to do than going back and editing it all)

Sadly there are a very few BB codes that work here on the forums. For a full list of what is supported look here (http://forums.ddo.com/misc.php?do=bbcode).

[Shamurai]

I've TR'ed 3 toons since U13 and I've really enjoyed the updated Korthos. I remember stepping out of the tavern after the Collaborator and heard the announcement that "ive become known as hero" or something like that. and I will admit it made me smile. This could be used all over the place .. like after achieving 400 favor (which unlocked Drow for me 3 years ago) hearing people on the street say something as I ran past.. like the first few times... actually hear something like "Hail hero of house Phiarlan" or something. Sure allow a UI toggle to turn this off for the uber zergers but those of use who enjoy a little of the RP aspect would Love it. I for one (when playing my HORC Bar GRRONND) almost always speak in character... just for the fun of it. But, alas I don't like "reading" too much text (I read computer text all day at work) so hearing audibles is a welcome change.
Places this could be used:
- Favor levels / house
- Chain completions. ( I almost always level my toons in the marketplace- don't ask me why) but what a great place for the Sharn Guy to say "Hail Shamurai, smasher of villany" or something (like I said.. maybe just the first few times)
- First time in Gianthold, Meridia, Amrath etc "Oh, look a newbie"
- First Raid completion of any given raid.
- First death (someone comes and commiserates at the tavern.. heck even offers ya 5 gold for repair bills)
- First time you buy 100 of any item in a vendor "Stocking up, eh?"
- Guild Ship greeter for invites. "Hail, and welcome to XX guild ship, enjoy your stay"
You get the point.

[LeoLionxxx]

since now players will theoreticly be more educated, do you think after the first, second, or 3rd run of korthose quests could produce end rewards other than those named items? Whenever I do them again I feel ripped off; I already got the item I wanted, why not give me some more stuff?

[Vengeance777]

TR'd a toon last night so got a chance to test it out.



Veteran Players

Did you notice it, and if so, did you try to follow along with it?

Yes I noticed it and I followed it along.



Did it help you to understand anything about the Korthos story you may have missed when you played it previously?

I've played Korthos a ton so know the story pretty well lol. Can see this helping new players understand it though.



If it ISN’T helpful, what is it lacking?

If its expanded to other areas of the game break it down into categories like storylines and related quests in the area. Maybe have a + and - option so you can display only the quests in the storyline you are currently on in the area but still easily see the other quests with a click.



Is there anything that it’s doing particularly well that you want to see more of?


Definitely expand it to the harbor and marketplace. I remember being lost on where to go first time I played the game once I reached the harbor as most of the quest givers were inside places and multiple storylines startup so its easy to get the stories confused on a first time player.

[Tyrande]

Greetings <strike>DDOnians</strike> [...]
My name is Ryon, and I am one of the newest[...]

Some of you may have noticed new Dungeon Master text and objectives [...]

Veteran Players
Welcome to the team, Ron!



Did you notice it, and if so, did you try to follow along with it?

Yes, I noticed it when I TR'd into an artificer the other day and follow along with it.



Did it help you to understand anything about the Korthos story you may have missed when you played it previously?
Yes.


If it ISN’T helpful, what is it lacking?
Not sure if this feature would increase the lag in high end raids and such. Time to feed the hamster with more power?



Is there anything that it’s doing particularly well that you want to see more of?

I really like the voice overs and the crowd gathering chanting, "Hero!" part after completing the three basic quests. Really help boosting the ego in a bad economy.

[danotmano1998]

The only unfortunate aspect of this new system is that is disappears once you leave Korthos.


Yes, I remember when I started thinking that the story lines were going to be absolutely epic only to realize that the immersion was over as soon as I left Korthos. Kind of a bummer because it gets your expectations up there and then *poof* gone. I stood around for a bit, thinking, "Now what?!?!"

Glad to hear that you guys are looking at expanding the immersion factor and making things a bit easier for the newcomers.


Oh, and yeah. I'm a devoted D&D'er. Been playing since the first box set came out waaay back when. I love Gary Gygax's work. I really do.

But his voice has no business doing the voiceovers in ANY quest.
I'm sorry, Gary. Your voice acting was abysmal.

On a positive note, the new voiceovers are awesome.

[Gimpinator]

Ninjas > Pirates

You lost me here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76p_ncbffCE

[hewimeddel]

hearing people on the street say something as I ran past.

Oh yes, i think this would be approriate:
"I used to be an adventurer like you, then i took an arrow in the knee"

;)

bye
hewi

[bigolbear]

I know this may be a little off topic as its not specificaly about korthos but it seems like a good time to make these comments.

One of my favourate things about DDO is the DM interaction, As I have 20+ years of DMing under my ample belt Im particularly enamoured with quests such as 'a cry for help' where the DM not only describes the situation but also attempts voices for major characters - even better that these voices are done by one guy attempting (badly) to put on the voices. (more of this please)

On the other side there is the 'binders'. Im honestly not sure if it was intentional or simply a mistake, and if it is intentional then more kudos to the devs for bravery. In sharn syndicate the family are refered to as the 'binders' pronounced (bin - ders) whereas they are of course book binders by trade meaning that the obvious pronounciation should have been (bine - d - ers). To this day im realy not sure if it was a voice over cockup or a clever reference to DM's reading from module books and mis pronouncing stuff. Either way it could probly use fixing if your doing a pass on voice overs - or stick with it but make the 'joke' a tad more obvious as its lost on most folks.

[karnokvolrath]

I didnt really notice the DM narration change but honestly i dont pay much attention to it after the 1st few times in a quest. I think early in the game solid narration wouuld be good for new players, but later on it seems a waist of time.

Im sure this post wont be helpful at all but why bother working on DM naration that most people have turned off anyway?

I do understand it for Korthos as its a new player area, but getting twards mid level quests i think it would be much better to spend the time updating old items.

Gwlands, Stormcleave, Tear of Drhakann just to name a few.

Not to mention some of the horrors in necro, Fell Rapier of Ice anyone?

[Melange]

Oh, and yeah. I'm a devoted D&D'er. Been playing since the first box set came out waaay back when. I love Gary Gygax's work. I really do.

But his voice has no business doing the voiceovers in ANY quest.
I'm sorry, Gary. Your voice acting was abysmal.

On a positive note, the new voiceovers are awesome.

On a side note, a number of years back, I got to meet Gary and watch him run a 1st ed game. Very cool experience. But I digress.

[Quetzacoala]

She and the British guy are my personal favorites

Heresy!

You forgot that the voice of the all-powerful Yaulthoon surpasses all others!

[sirgog]

I always rush Korthos and so didn't really see much of the narration there, but IMO this system has potential.

The question though is - can it be made to work in areas with more than one storyline? (Think the Harbor, where it's not all that clear which of the content you'd want to direct level 2 'fresh out of Korthos' types to).

Do you send them to Waterworks straight away or would you send them to other content first? If so which other content (there's no real unifying storyline in the Harbor). Or do you add more of an overarching storyline, getting people to do all the Kobold quests (Dirk, Butcher's Path, Garrison's Missing Pack, etc, skipping the horrible Kobold Assault) and culminating in a mission to smash your way into the main Kobold 'stronghold' of the Waterworks?

Where it will really struggle is the Necropolis. I can see this working really well in Gianthold, the Desert, Meridia, and anywhere else with flagging raids however. And also, I can see 'optionals' being used well - e.g. in Amrath, you have the main arc saying 'strike a blow against the Devils at each of Genesis Point, Iron Maw, the Hall of the Third Legion and whatever the Sins building is called', and then you are directed to TOD, but also get an optional appear: '(Optional): Convince the paranoid Yugoloth alchemist that you are not a spy by achieving 75 favor with the Yugoloth faction'.

[macubrae]

On a side note, a number of years back, I got to meet Gary and watch him run a 1st ed game. Very cool experience. But I digress.

I started with the blue box and still have some of the dice, but hearing the creator in action is full of WIN. If only he sounded like the "state farm" guy.

[InsanityIsYourFriend]

Yes i noticed it
No like a lot of people I skip korthos completely as it sometimes feels like a waste of time
Yaulthoon is awesome!
I think there should be more voices that at least try to match what is being said and by whome (in the same pack that yaulthoon was introduced there was that one guy with the "angry" voice that you couldnt here too well over the awesome music)
as for the "female" prisoner calling for help wasnt it a (insert name of cat thing with backwards hands here)?
that would explain why the voice sounded fake, it WAS fake

I know people will hate me for this.... give kobolds more voice in area's other than challenges, i want to hear that kobold mutter to kill the evil giant not giant thing that has a huge "clunk" YOU KILLED ________ NOW YOU PAY! ooohhhh shiney! "clunk"

[learst]

Greetings <strike>DDOnians</strike> <strike>DDOites</strike> <strike>DDOtiates</strike> personages of extreme personatude!
My name is Ryon, and I am one of the newest content designers here on the DDO team. I really enjoy D&D and working here on DDO, so I hope you will all look forward to some of my content in the upcoming expansion. Let’s see, what else can I say about myself to give an idea of who I am and what I’m about?

Ninjas > Pirates
I am an epic level pun-o-mancer
My favorite D&D Monster is the second edition Invisible Stalker (It has the best image in any Monstrous Manual)


Hi and welcome!


Veteran Players

Did you notice it, and if so, did you try to follow along with it?

Yes, I noticed. But no I didn't. I play in permadeath and we tend to run the Storehouse first which is slightly easier.



Did it help you to understand anything about the Korthos story you may have missed when you played it previously?

Not really. The korthos story was quite clear for me. But the added DM voiceover added more urgency/background/flavour to the Korthos storyline.



If it ISN’T helpful, what is it lacking?

No comment.



Is there anything that it’s doing particularly well that you want to see more of

The added DM voice is nice, but please KIV the timing and the number of things it said. There are quite a few parts, like when meeting Jeets, Heyton's and the completion of Misery Peaks where a few voiceover is triggered almost simultaneously (i.e. overlapping each other). Perhaps use triggers which are more spaced out in time, e.g. (after recalling out to dungeon from quest etc).



Responses in red.

[Aaxeyu]

Ninjas > Pirates

No.

[Brennie]

Hai new guy!

First off, let me say that voice-acted bits are one of my absolute favorite things in DDO - When it goes right. The grotto, although not exactly the most fun quest ever from a mechanics standpoint, it's still one of my favorites, simply because I feel like I'm *part* of something, and i also feel like i know whats happening, why its happening, and what I'm supposed to do at all times.

This feature is sadly lacking from most other quests, although it has slowly been introduced more and more in new content (Acute Delirium does a spectacular job of narrating whats happening, and the voice-acted kobolds from Crystal Cove have actual personality). But even the new content doesn't have the same liveliness and memorable-ness (?) that the characters from the Grotto do.

Long story short - I'm a bit of a Zerger. I've been playing this game for years, and i know how to quickly accomplish most quests in the game. And yet, i have no idea what the storyline *actually* is for a good majority of them. All i have are guesswork from mission objectives and scripted events.

However, just because I'm a bit of a zerger doesn't mean i don't enjoy atmosphere, storyline, and content. It just means I'm not willing to sit down and read 5 minutes worth of fluff dialogue for a 15 minutes quest. BUT i would *LOVE* to have the storyline given to me auditorially (Is that a word? Well... it is now!) as I gleefully massacre my way through the quest!

So if you are the new dev in charge of storyline, continuity, DMing, and directions all tied into voice-over work, please *please* make it an important part of new content. Having it added to older content would be absolute icing, and I applaud your decision to attempt that endeavor.

This is just my opinion, but i strongly feel that DMing is not the be-all, end-all of voice over work. The Grotto has shown how bringing characters to life via individual voice overs can have a huge impact on how vibrant and impactful a quest is. People who have been playing this game for years still like to quote Jeets, a character who is the most real and memorable of any in the game for me (Including Harry, Suulo, Velah, and other keystone characters of DDO, who feel flat and lifeless). Quests like "in the Flesh" show how a mixture of DMing and character acting make the experience much more immersive. So please, in the future, have DMs be the storytellers, but always look for avenues to allow the story to have its own life!

So... that was a bit of a tangent. For your original question: I TR'd recently, plowed through the Grotto (And enjoyed it, even though my intention was to skip it, and i kinda Fubar'd that somehow), and immediately left Korthos to hit my bank and gear up. When i came back, I hit Cannith Crystal, then Storehouse, and then Heytons Rest. It was only AFTER Heytons rest that the DM kicked in for me, and i was pleased to hear that I was a hero, and delighted that new players woudl be directed to the bar (Since its not particularly intuitive to look for a quest there, when the other three are outside).

Overall I thought the little snippet i had was great. As for what I didn't like, I did find fault in the Mandatory order though - If its possible to have more generic DM text for the first 3 individual quests, to allow players to get the "Full experience" regardless of order, that woudl be great (Especially if a newbie wanders into, say, Storehouse Secret first, and then loses the tutorial track because of it).

As to what i liked, and would like to see more of - Gratification for running quests. Being called a hero. A binding of quest-arc quests together through overarching storyline, making them feel like a grand adventure rather than solitary experiences necessary to progress onwards.

I'm curious to try out the new stuff in order, as directed, to see if that makes the esperience even better. Overall, though, i highly approve of the changes.

PS - Wouldn't that giant wall of text have been much easier to get through if you could have had it narrated while you did other, much more relevant and important things? Yeah. Stories told almost entirely through voice acting, with vibrant, indvidually voice acted characters, rather than annoying text and anti-immersive DMs-as-characters. Thinkaboutit.

[Grieve]

Veteran Players

Did you notice it, and if so, did you try to follow along with it?
Did it help you to understand anything about the Korthos story you may have missed when you played it previously?
If it ISN’T helpful, what is it lacking?
Is there anything that it’s doing particularly well that you want to see more of?


I'll keep this short. My overall opinion of the change is that it's a great idea and makes the process of following the story and quest sequence easier for people that have yet to complete the quests. I also think it should be implemented in other areas of the game. I have one caveat though; if possible, design it so that if a veteran player doesn't want to deal with it they can disable it by either checking a box in the options menus or having it be a quest in the Quest Log that you can deselect.

[dejafu]

Heresy!

You forgot that the voice of the all-powerful Yaulthoon surpasses all others!

I thought that the person voicing Yaulthoon (blessed be his tentacled visage) WAS the British guy :confused:

[Dendrix]

I recently redid korthos. I though it was a great bit of a helping hand.

[SardaofChaos]

Oh, and yeah. I'm a devoted D&D'er. Been playing since the first box set came out waaay back when. I love Gary Gygax's work. I really do.

But his voice has no business doing the voiceovers in ANY quest.
I'm sorry, Gary. Your voice acting was abysmal.


I'd say the same for Threnal (slightly less so) but wouldn't ever take them out. It's a good tribute, and to those who actually had a DM doing voices it brings back memories.

[My2Cents]

Welcome to the mayhem. When you read the responses to your posts, please be assured that "we;re not all like that!" :)

Haven't been to Korthos since U13, will make it a point to go take a look...

I've not yet joined the "Reincarnate Culture", and the few new characters I've created recently are veterans. I will eventually go back of course...

[Antheal]

Hi there.

Who's the new voice actor for Heyton's Rest, and is it the same person who does the voice work in Lordsmarch Plaza? She sounds a little like Melendy Britt but there's nothing in the credits.

After completing Misery's Peak the checkbox to talk to the reward person and then sail on "To Stormreach" isn't being completed, even though I've talked to him, gone to Stormreach, talked to Mari and got my new bags.

[Fanatic_Guru]

I TRed a few days ago and I noticed the changes and liked them very much especially when the DM narrated that the towns people were taking notice of my achievements.

I thought to myself that the developers where attempting to make for a better first impression for the newbie free-to-play person checking the game out.

I love DM narrative especially when it is true narrative describing the scene or providing background lore and story.

Voicing characters is nice but lots of games have that. I like the idea of a DM that is a third person narrator that tells me additional things about the environment I am.

One being physical descriptive details that attempts to pull my into the environment in an imaginative way with well written words. As good as the graphic engine is my imagination can make it all the better with a little narrative nudging.

The other is with history and lore that attempts to pull me in to the story. I don't want to stop the action and sit for two minutes reading some long dialog panel or book entry. I don't even want to sit and listen to the story but I love having the DM tell me the background story as I continue exploring and killing stuff if I don't have to stop the action to hear it.

All and all the concept of a DM voice telling you stuff is kind of unique to DDO. DDO players just accept it as it is a known part of D&D, other games players might find it weird that strange voices keep rambling on in your head. DDO needs to leverage this story mechanic more and more as the concept of a DM is defining to D&D and DDO so does not seem strange at all and it a great way to convey information to the player without interrupting the flow of play.

[Silverleafeon]

TRed Fawngate a few days ago.

Recall talking to my friend, that the recent improvements to Korthos were rather good.

Impressed, thanks.

[MarDeRoam]

Who's the new voice actor for Heyton's Rest, and is it the same person who does the voice work in Lordsmarch Plaza? She sounds a little like Melendy Britt but there's nothing in the credits.
.

I think the voice actress you heard is Cindy Robinson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cindy_Robinson)
If i'm not mistaken she did U12 and the Crystal Cove Kobolds as her first DDO job.

[geoffhanna]

Oh, and yeah. I'm a devoted D&D'er. Been playing since the first box set came out waaay back when. I love Gary Gygax's work. I really do.

But his voice has no business doing the voiceovers in ANY quest.
I'm sorry, Gary. Your voice acting was abysmal.

On a positive note, the new voiceovers are awesome.

I dislike every part of this post. If there were 1000 dislike buttons on it, I would push them all.

DO NOT consider the community in favor of removing Gary and Dave. We are not. There are dozens of quests now that can have all the professional voiceovers you want. Leave these two alone.

[Feralthyrtiaq]

Played a while so replying to the veteran part:


>Veteran Players
>Did you notice it, and if so, did you try to follow along with it?

Followed it a bit, not the whole run

>Did it help you to understand anything about the Korthos story you may have missed when you played it previously?

No, but then I have done korthos more than hundred times sofar...

>If it ISNT helpful, what is it lacking?

I think that it is extremely helpful for someone new, but if you can do something with your eyes closed it is not that helpful.

>Is there anything that its doing particularly well that you want to see more of?

Tying together the storyline from multiple quests as a sort of "master quest".

It would be nice if there were similar master quests for the many story lines in DDO. Though a simple journal type thing with chapters like quest lines have would likely be enough. The individual quest lines would then be the chapters of that master quest.

Master quest lines that tied Heroic quests like tangleroot spawn of whisper doom etc.

Could also help players follow quest progression Hint Hint Threnal (:

[clkpacker]

Veteran player:

I really enjoy having voiceovers outside of quests. It makes everything feel more unified. I hope we get that feature in the rest of the content; as another poster pointed out, it's much easier to hear the storyline than to read it. I've really enjoyed many of the new quest packs specifically because of the combination of storyline and voicework and hope that trend continues and is expanded upon. If older quests were rehauled to add these aspects, I'd be ecstatic (although please do not mix DM voices. It's always jarring).

One thing that did bother me with the new setup is that the green arrow showing your current target did not switch to the quest entrance after speaking to the quest giver. I also experienced the overlapping voiceovers that others have reported.

[Myrddinman]

Thanks for soliciting some feedback :D

I have not been to Korthos since the update, but when I TR next or roll a new toon, I'll make it a point to pay attention and give some feedback.

However, I would like to say that I would love to go from level 1 to 20 (just once at least) with DM narration outside of quests; something that tells the entire story and ties everything together as you progress.

[Antheal]

I dislike every part of this post. If there were 1000 dislike buttons on it, I would push them all.

DO NOT consider the community in favor of removing Gary and Dave. We are not. There are dozens of quests now that can have all the professional voiceovers you want. Leave these two alone.

But, but... The tomb opens up into a LARJUR space!

Just because he's one of the fathers of Dungeons & Dragons doesn't mean that his voice acting isn't abysmal.

[eterna1_drag0n]

Sorry if someone already said this, as i did not read the entire thread; Everything was easy to follow in the Korthos 2.0 and i think it will help new players. But there are 3 things that stand out as major flaws in the system and have been sense the beginning of Korthos.

1. The first quest players are introduced to, Heyton's Rest, has a trap in it, OH noes! But you are not given Thieves Tools at start or in one of the guide me chests, even as a rogue, to disarm it, doh!

2. For the Misery's Peak quest there are not one but TWO people you have to talk to outside in the slayer area to get the quest. Please move them both to a more suitable location, like by the door/gate before the slayer area or just outside the quest itself.

3. Please put all the trainers together in a building and call it the hall of attainment/advancement or something like that, maybe even have those houses/buildings spring up in Stormreach too as finding specific ones becomes annoying; and why wouldn't all the teachers/trainers form a school/university... tuition should be free because... Well, it should be! / That's where my AH fees go!

[Ralmeth]

I'm a vet, and rolled up a 1st level character to try out the new DM voice. I got as far as finishing the tavern quest and here are my thoughts.

-In the tutorial quest, in a few places (most noticeably when you first meet Jeets) the DM was talking over or really close to one of the NPC voices. I recommend smoothing this out. The DM voice over should flow with what the NPCs are saying (even if you are running through the quest at top speed).

-When the DM voice flowed with the quest, I thought it really added to the ambiance. Instead of just running through the quest, it brought the story into more focus.

[yawumpus]

Sorry if someone already said this, as i did not read the entire thread; Everything was easy to follow in the Korthos 2.0 and i think it will help new players. But there are 3 things that stand out as major flaws in the system and have been sense the beginning of Korthos.

1. The first quest players are introduced to, Heyton's Rest, has a trap in it, OH noes! But you are not given Thieves Tools at start or in one of the guide me chests, even as a rogue, to disarm it, doh!
I am wondering about this. I know I've disabled the trap (which changes Jeets' lines to "not that I don't trust your skills, but why don't you go through the door first"). I thought that the tools now drop in the chest with the battleworn chain, but maybe they don't even drop anymore.
2. For the Misery's Peak quest there are not one but TWO people you have to talk to outside in the slayer area to get the quest. Please move them both to a more suitable location, like by the door/gate before the slayer area or just outside the quest itself.
Not so sure about this one. You have to speak to Ursa outside (after finishing redemption) and then speak to Amalgam "at the base of Misery's Peak when you're ready". There is a warforged outside the gate (also Amalgam?), but unless they changed something with the new voices, you don't have to talk to him.
3. Please put all the trainers together in a building and call it the hall of attainment/advancement or something like that, maybe even have those houses/buildings spring up in Stormreach too as finding specific ones becomes annoying; and why wouldn't all the teachers/trainers form a school/university... tuition should be free because... Well, it should be! / That's where my AH fees go!
I'm really failing to see the advantage. The two groups in the marketplace seem to be an outdoor copy of what you are asking for, along with a few appropriate (or less so in House J) trainers in the Houses.


filler.

[geoffhanna]

But, but... The tomb opens up into a LARJUR space!

Just because he's one of the fathers of Dungeons & Dragons doesn't mean that his voice acting isn't abysmal.

He was not a voice actor. He was a dungeon master.

The dungeon master.

[eterna1_drag0n]

Originally Posted by eterna1_drag0n View Post
Sorry if someone already said this, as i did not read the entire thread; Everything was easy to follow in the Korthos 2.0 and i think it will help new players. But there are 3 things that stand out as major flaws in the system and have been sense the beginning of Korthos.

1. The first quest players are introduced to, Heyton's Rest, has a trap in it, OH noes! But you are not given Thieves Tools at start or in one of the guide me chests, even as a rogue, to disarm it, doh!

I am wondering about this. I know I've disabled the trap (which changes Jeets' lines to "not that I don't trust your skills, but why don't you go through the door first"). I thought that the tools now drop in the chest with the battleworn chain, but maybe they don't even drop anymore.


2. For the Misery's Peak quest there are not one but TWO people you have to talk to outside in the slayer area to get the quest. Please move them both to a more suitable location, like by the door/gate before the slayer area or just outside the quest itself.

Not so sure about this one. You have to speak to Ursa outside (after finishing redemption) and then speak to Amalgam "at the base of Misery's Peak when you're ready". There is a warforged outside the gate (also Amalgam?), but unless they changed something with the new voices, you don't have to talk to him.


3. Please put all the trainers together in a building and call it the hall of attainment/advancement or something like that, maybe even have those houses/buildings spring up in Stormreach too as finding specific ones becomes annoying; and why wouldn't all the teachers/trainers form a school/university... tuition should be free because... Well, it should be! / That's where my AH fees go!

I'm really failing to see the advantage. The two groups in the marketplace seem to be an outdoor copy of what you are asking for, along with a few appropriate (or less so in House J) trainers in the Houses.




1. I guess I mean the first real quest, if you skip the quest getting to Kothos from the shipwreck you do not get Thieves Tools. I never do the run from the boat quest, I guess they give Theives Tools there?

2. If you don't talk to Amalgam you don't get an end reward, quest does not advance even after completion.

3. The Market is not DDO first impression spot, Korthos is; The fact that you use The Market's trainer area as a good example of what a training area should be is exactly what I'm getting at: Scattered trainers = Bad / All trainers together = Good

[sdrocky]

On a side note, a number of years back, I got to meet Gary and watch him run a 1st ed game. Very cool experience. But I digress.

You lucky lucky bastard.

[arkonas]

i love it personally because players when they come to ddo and not with a friend. they dont know where to start or what to do. sure the vet players might not like it but its not about them. korthos is the beginner area and i dont see anything wrong with introducing them to the game. i really like the idea

[EatSmart]

Veteran Players

Did you notice it, and if so, did you try to follow along with it?
Did it help you to understand anything about the Korthos story you may have missed when you played it previously?
If it ISN’T helpful, what is it lacking?
Is there anything that it’s doing particularly well that you want to see more of?


First impression:
TR'd a day or two ago with a 3+ lifer. The green floaty arrow served quite well at saying "cooey, adventurer, come talk to this person". The arrow stayed over the questgiver though after I spoke with her, which was confusing. Logically it should have moved to hovering over the quest entrance.

Difficulty curve:
Whilst geographically the closest to where the adventurer spawns, I dont think the new Hayton's is appropriate as the 2nd quest a new player attempts. (Counting grotto as 1st) Heyton's is a meaty dungeon in comparison to storehouse and cannith crystal.

In storehouse, there are lots of breakables that supply the player with handy bits and bobs (especially health pots). Storehouse is a nice chilled introduction to normalish questing, with only one new game mechanic (a puzzle). This is a great quest to be doing 2nd, as it lets the player get used to ddo combat and controlling the rate that they encounter new monsters.

In cannith, the quest is very short, and mistakes result in relatively immediate consequences with the player being able to fail and reenter quickly when they make them. One new quest mechanic is introduced (defensive objectives), and the player faces multiple casters for the first time. (Yes, I know there are some in grotto, but you can afk that fight and still win as the NPCs are very powerful.) This is a good 3rd quest. It is harder than storehouse as the player is not in control of the pace of the encounters, and is forced out of the "turtle" mindset.

Heyton's introduces several mechanics simultaneously, and expects the player to learn them quickly. The player was given a fire touch weapon of their choice in the grotto. This is likely to have been a weapon best suited to their build. In Heyton's, they're told to put that weapon away to deal with skeletons or zombies (or both!) depending on damage type, getting a dps downgrade. The dungeon is sparse on breakables, so while it's cute that the DM tells you to pay attention to your health, there's not much you can do about it unless you brought some pots with you. You're meeting the damage reduction mechanics at the same time as being under time pressure (stop the necromancers raising more stuff!), and also learning about breakable objects with HPs (the alters). There's quite a lot going on.

The quests are all level appropriate in difficulty, none need a nerf or a boost, but the order grotto -> heytons -> storehouse -> cannith in which they're encountered is eccentric as a difficulty curve. The order grotto -> storehouse -> cannith -> heytons makes much more sense, and sets up better expectations for collaborator.

As a veteran, I'd like a "dismiss" option for the UI elements of the area objectives. One of the first things I do when making a new character is to turn hints off, and I'd like to be able to do similarly with this.

[FranOhmsford]

I've ran Korthos too many times to count BUT unfortunatley not since the update.

As for the Harbour: I'd suggest starting out by leading the newbies fresh off the boat roundin this order.

1. Speak to Baglady.
2. Arachnophobia {Solo}
3. Collect quest to find Leaky Dinghy at bottom of ramp.
4. Go to Dinghy - Collect Quests.
5. Bringing the Light
6. Info is Key
7. Back to Dinghy
8. The Miller's Debt {Solo}
9. Haverdasher
10. Durk's
11. An Explosive Situation {Solo}
12. The Bank, Weapons and Armour Shop, Ingredients and Potions Shop.
13. Garrison's Pack
14. Mailbox, Auction House, Airship Access
15. Collect Quests next to Market Gate
16. Kobold's New Ringleader
17. Home Sweet Sewer {Solo}
18. Wayward Lobster {collect quests}
19. Baudry Chain
20. Smuggler's Warehouse
21. Stealthy Repo
18. Cerulean Hills
23. Butcher's Path
24. Waterworks
25. Irestone Inlet.
26. Into the Marketplace, Trainers, Speak to Yorrick then head to the Rusty Nail {Sharn comes later}
27. Sunken Sewer and MIA
28. STK {First Pay to Play pack}.

Some thought should be given to changing the levels of these quests to fit in with where they'd appear in this list.

[Dark_Helmet]

Hi Welcome

So you are into jokes. Are you the new prankster around the office?


On a side note, a number of years back, I got to meet Gary and watch him run a 1st ed game. Very cool experience. But I digress.

How about an interview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGS8re8cIVI) with him?


:D

[Ziindarax]

I found the new changes to be relatively useful while not being annoying to veterans, such as myself. I don't really have a lot to say on the matter as I've done Korthos enough to know its every nuance.

My only beef with the changes was the sudden need to change Talbron's voice. Maybe Turbine wanted him to sound more mechanical, or something but I think the new voice is rather inferior in quality compared to the original, in my honest opinion.

For those of you who aren't sure what I am talking about, here's a a link to a video with the original voice acting for Talbron. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxnElwJWqBw)*

* Note - this was the only video I could find where Talbron was actually speaking (or wasn't being overwhelmingly drowned out by commentary).

[Silverleafeon]

1. The first quest players are introduced to, Heyton's Rest, has a trap in it, OH noes! But you are not given Thieves Tools at start or in one of the guide me chests, even as a rogue, to disarm it, doh!Jeets handed my rogue some thieves tools in the intro quest at the trap.

.

[Luis_Velderve]

Ninjas > Pirates


Introducing yourself with provocative statements to elicit responses. Nice job and welcome.

[Melange]

I have one caveat though; if possible, design it so that if a veteran player doesn't want to deal with it they can disable it by either checking a box in the options menus or having it be a quest in the Quest Log that you can deselect.

Actually, those are both already options. You can disable it from the Options Menu "Don't Show Global Objectives" (we will likely be changing that name, though), if you click the "x" in the actual objective list, the objective disappears until readded by the Quest Journal. We tried to make it as disable-able as possible for people who don't want it.

[bhgiant]

I just recently did my first TR. Not sure if that makes me a veteran.




Was it helpful for finding your way?


Yes, even as someone who's run it about 8 times already.




Was it easier to follow along with the story of what happens in Korthos?


Absolutely. You can still get the general idea from reading the text but you miss stuff that way. This is the first time I think I really understood it.




Did it help immerse you deeper into what was happening with the Korthos storyline?


HECK YES! I felt apart of the game, just like in PnP. I had done something there. My Character felt so freaking epic.




Was it distracting, and if so, what specifically was distracting?


nope




If you used it in Korthos, do you feel like you missed it once you reached the Harbor and no longer had it?


Yes. As someone who enjoys PnP, I was actually sad to leave. I enjoy good immersion and feeling apart of the game. Imo, that's the one thing this game lacks the most is the feeling of connection with the story.




Is there anything that it’s doing particularly well that you want to see more of?


I would like to see it implemented in all storyline quests with the option to turn it off. This is such a massive and complex game that a little direction in public areas would be nice.

tl;dr - Public area narrations added a lot to the immersion and helped give me direction and focus. It also drove the story and made me feel more uber. I would love to see more of it.

[Havok.cry]

The necropolis needs this the most. I really had very little idea what exactly was going on there till I hit the orchard for the first time. Until then it was just, "oh there's undead here, ok, I'll kill them all."

[MrFister]

The only thing I didn't like about the global quest objective thing on Korthos was how linear it was.

Why does helping (guy who gives storehouse quest or crystal quest) only pop up after finishing helping Kaya? Why wouldn't those objectives pop up when you talked to them, even if you haven't done Heyton's Rest?

And then, if you do Cannith Crystal first, then Heyton's, then you have to do Cannith Crystal again, like it has no idea you already have.

Either enforce them as a quest chain, or make the objectives more sandboxy.

Otherwise, great!

(Vet player response)

[Grieve]

Actually, those are both already options. You can disable it from the Options Menu "Don't Show Global Objectives" (we will likely be changing that name, though), if you click the "x" in the actual objective list, the objective disappears until readded by the Quest Journal. We tried to make it as disable-able as possible for people who don't want it.

Sorry, I did not notice that, I was only on Korthos for all of 45 minutes this past life on my Wizard. It's nice to know that the capability is available though.

[herzkos]

/snip
Oh, and yeah. I'm a devoted D&D'er. Been playing since the first box set came out waaay back when. I love Gary Gygax's work. I really do.

But his voice has no business doing the voiceovers in ANY quest.
I'm sorry, Gary. Your voice acting was abysmal.


Removing either Dave Arneson(Threnal) or Gary Gygax(Delera's) from the DM narrative would be a huge
mistake by Turbine. I posted a thread while playing through Deleras and thought they changed the voice/
removed some of the parts. Checked back when I finished part 2, it was on the myddo browser in game which does not update
when you re-open the window and thought my oops went unnoticed( like most of my threads) and edited my post to d'oh.
then took a nap.
Moral of the story, i was wrong. The community feels so strongly about those men that I received about
400 neg rep over less than 5 hours. Got about 100 back once i explained what happened but I would seriously
discourage Turbine from alienating a large percentage of their player base.

just a heads up to anyone who has any doubt about how forumites in general feel about the founders
of DDO

[AbyssalMage]

Some of you may have noticed new Dungeon Master text and objectives that have sprouted up in Korthos Island as of Update 13. Obviously Korthos is pretty straight forward, but the idea is that we would expand this technique to other public areas in the future once we’re confident in the implementation. Let’s get started!
Well been playing sense March of 2011 so I still consider myself (very) new with all the content which I have experienced less than 50% of it...



Newer Players
Was it helpful for finding your way?
Honestly, Korthos is quite linear. It may have helped in spots but nothing memorable. Now, adding the same DM voice to the Harbor or Marketplace would be a different story


Was it easier to follow along with the story of what happens in Korthos?
Again, Korthos is quite linear and if you read the text (and comprehend it), you can follow the story easily. Now for younger players or those who have difficulty reading, A+


Did it help immerse you deeper into what was happening with the Korthos storyline?
The first time, yes, but when running the quest multiple times, it quickly becomes irritating. Having a flag to turn it off after the first successful run would be great. I think this is why most people turn off "DM voice." The annoyance factor of running a quest multiple times and hearing the DM's voice.


Was it distracting, and if so, what specifically was distracting?
*Read above* Basically running the quest 3+ times causes it to become like "nails across a chalk board"


If you used it in Korthos, do you feel like you missed it once you reached the Harbor and no longer had it?
When I first started, very much so. Not that I know my way around quests in the 2-5 range very well, I don't miss it until I make a new alt.


If it ISN’T helpful, what is it lacking?
Make it go away on multiple runs of the same quest PLEASE!


Is there anything that it’s doing particularly well that you want to see more of?
It does a very good job when you have run a quest for the very first time. Although I enjoyed the male voice over the new female voice, they both have their advantages. Maybe having a mix of male and female voices where one is doing the describing and the other doing the NPC speech would make it even more distinct. After all, this is DDO, not PnP Dungeons & Dragons, you have the ability of using multiple different voices to do one quests. You have a whole staff of developers who can be immortalized in DDO with their voices.

p.s. My grammar stinks at the moment. 3 hours of sleep will do that to you. Finals week: 7 days and counting 'till its over.

[pjstechie]

Veteran Players

Did you notice it, and if so, did you try to follow along with it?
Did it help you to understand anything about the Korthos story you may have missed when you played it previously?
If it ISN’T helpful, what is it lacking?
Is there anything that it’s doing particularly well that you want to see more of?


1) yeah I noticed it, though I was kind of looking for it since I saw this first
2) not really, but I had a pretty good grasp of it before hand
3) maybe a more obvious "turn me off" button or hint on how to do so (though I have hints turned off...)
4) the one thing that really stood out was the comment that was something like "as you pass through town the name hero is on peoples lips". That gave towns real nice pnp vibe for me, fleshed out the artists rendering of a village kind of thing. Really interested to see more of that in other areas. I also liked how it was the main quest line and it left theotherquests out as side quests. Left good room for exploring and finding those extra things to do

[Propane]

Greetings <strike>DDOnians</strike> <strike>DDOites</strike> <strike>DDOtiates</strike> personages of extreme personatude!

My name is Ryon, and I am one of the newest content designers here on the DDO team.
Veteran Players

Did you notice it, and if so, did you try to follow along with it?
Did it help you to understand anything about the Korthos story you may have missed when you played it previously?
If it ISN’T helpful, what is it lacking?
Is there anything that it’s doing particularly well that you want to see more of?


Yes I did - yes I did to along with it. My latest TR found it - was a nice addition.

I do like the way it ties the entie island together.

I did have any issue with one of th last tasks - speaking with the person before going to Stormreach... that box always remained unchecked - even after a few log in/outs and visits to Stormreach....

[Silverleafeon]

I did have any issue with one of th last tasks - speaking with the person before going to Stormreach... that box always remained unchecked - even after a few log in/outs and visits to Stormreach....

Happened to me too.

.

[Taryana]

Welcome! I'm a 5+yo vet, and liked everything about Korthos when it was implemented, and I still like it. One (a new player) gets immersed into story easily, and it is also a well balanced one, so a newbie can cope with it,with or without experienced party.

[jkm]

Welcome! I'm a 5+yo vet, and liked everything about Korthos when it was implemented, and I still like it. One (a new player) gets immersed into story easily, and it is also a well balanced one, so a newbie can cope with it,with or without experienced party.

You like the snowy side vs sunny side mechanics? Sorry, but this is just a horrid mechanic that is much harder on the classes that are relatively weak at level 1 (like say a wizard).

Melange, I should be up for a TR in the next week. I'll give it a thorough feedback session with our group of 5.

It would also be helpful if you guys would explain exactly what you are trying to fix here. Its obviously aimed at some particular attrition reason of new players, like confusion. While I agree that it can be confusing, there are some other issues that new players face that could be bigger causes for frustration.

[Ague]

Veteran Players

Did you notice it, and if so, did you try to follow along with it?
I noticed it and did try to follow along with it. Unfortunately, I have a totally different rhythm for running new toons through Korthos Island/Village so the order was a bit strange for me.
Did it help you to understand anything about the Korthos story you may have missed when you played it previously?
DDO is full of robust story, but too many players, both old and new, just click straight through all of the dialogue so they can be awarded the quest. I have always tried to read all the dialogue for every quest giver and other various NPC's. So, no, this did not help me to understand the story line any further, but I'm sure it will help others learn the story line.
If it ISN’T helpful, what is it lacking?
I don't think it's lacking anything, really. I'm sure there are people out there that wouldn't mind an option to turn it on/off. I do feel that it should only be used for chain style quests, ie Catacombs, Vault of Night, Delera's Tomb (would help people get the end reward without bugging the chain), Sorrowdusk, etc... It would help people to understand the story behind those quests a little more.
Is there anything that it’s doing particularly well that you want to see more of?
The objective style box is similar to the quest objective box, which makes it a smooth transition going from public area to quest zone.


Responses are in yellow.

[Systern]

I just TR'd and followed through the Korthos story line.

I liked it. I liked the new voice overs. I was a little surprised that Sacrifices, Stop the Sahuagin, and Necromancer's Doom aren't slotted into the story arc in the objectives list. Or at least, I didn't get them to trigger. Heyton's Rest. Cannith Crystal. Storehouse Scroll. The Collaborator. Redemption. Misery's Peak...

Okay, so maybe you didn't want to make the experience totally linear, but I would have guessed that after Redemption there would have been (optionals) or something for the three that are left out... Some indication in the list that "Yes there's more to do here that's relevant to this story."

[Balewind]

Did I notice the big obnoxious box in my already cluttered field of view in Korthos? Yes I did. It is really annoying. I found it didn't reveal anything new... simply covered up what I would like to see: the world. We're getting to the point where the HUD is too busy and taking away from immersing yourself in the game.

I just introduced a friend to DDO and do you know the first thing he asked me when he got to Korthos?: "How do I get rid of this stupid quest box thing in town?"

So it's a swing and a miss there for that addition. Hopefully just a trial and gone with the next patch.

[Melange]

It would also be helpful if you guys would explain exactly what you are trying to fix here. Its obviously aimed at some particular attrition reason of new players, like confusion. While I agree that it can be confusing, there are some other issues that new players face that could be bigger causes for frustration.

The main points of the system is to help tie together the stories, helping the player feel like they are actually a part of a greater story than just a bunch of individual quests, and to help give a gentle nudge to indecisive players when they first set foot in a new area.

Also, we're mainly point at quests that are integral to the story-line. We don't want to hold your hand through the entire game - at the end of the day, it's still your experience and your story.

[arkonas]

Sorry if someone already said this, as i did not read the entire thread; Everything was easy to follow in the Korthos 2.0 and i think it will help new players. But there are 3 things that stand out as major flaws in the system and have been sense the beginning of Korthos.

1. The first quest players are introduced to, Heyton's Rest, has a trap in it, OH noes! But you are not given Thieves Tools at start or in one of the guide me chests, even as a rogue, to disarm it, doh!

2. For the Misery's Peak quest there are not one but TWO people you have to talk to outside in the slayer area to get the quest. Please move them both to a more suitable location, like by the door/gate before the slayer area or just outside the quest itself.

3. Please put all the trainers together in a building and call it the hall of attainment/advancement or something like that, maybe even have those houses/buildings spring up in Stormreach too as finding specific ones becomes annoying; and why wouldn't all the teachers/trainers form a school/university... tuition should be free because... Well, it should be! / That's where my AH fees go!


there was a guy that responded to the trainer question but i couldnt get his response.

anyways those are in other areas. hes referring to korthos who are scattered all over the place. when i first came into ddo i was looking for my trainer for a while. so maybe if not a building like a outdoor type hut where their all under it instead of all over

[Dendrix]

One of the best bits of Korthos it talking to all the NPC's AFTER you complete misery's Peak, they really make you feel like a hero. Encouraging people to do that before they leave would be good.

[donblas]

The main points of the system is to help tie together the stories, helping the player feel like they are actually a part of a greater story than just a bunch of individual quests, and to help give a gentle nudge to indecisive players when they first set foot in a new area.

Also, we're mainly point at quests that are integral to the story-line. We don't want to hold your hand through the entire game - at the end of the day, it's still your experience and your story.

Thanks Melange. I'd really like this sort of thing to be rolled out across the whole game (obviously with the possibility to disable it if you've done everything a million times).

I was really thrilled when I did Hidden in Plain Sight and realised there was a whole back story behind the low level harbor quests. Some narration to move a player along the whole story about what is going in in the game would have been great when I first started (and now actually!)

There is a slight problem I could see in that some chains that presumably you would be encouraged to do in their entirety include quests at different levels. At present i sometimes do the lower level quests and then go back when I have levelled to do the later ones. This would unfortunately break up the plotline - is there an easy solution?

Other than that I really appreciate what has been done to the Korthos quests. Thanks for your ongoing improvements to the game :)

[red_cardinal]

As a veteran player - I didn't notice anything except redesigned Heyton's rest and a helpful DM voice. For new players, great stuff as an introduction.

Probably the best thing about this game is that you can do quests in any order you please - most of the time - but you can also do it in a story-order. So, while the story may be important to some at some time, it may be completely irrelevant to somebody at some other time. Keep the free choice quests, don't tie them to much together. But for those who do read the storyline, keep it up.

[Eighnuss]

talibron's new voice- come on. rehire the old voice actor for him please.

[Arlathen]

talibron's new voice- come on. rehire the old voice actor for him please.

Actually, I thought the new voice for Talbron was more inline with how I imagined a Warforged to speak.

The very first peice of DM speech when you wake up on the beach needs delaying by about 5 seconds. It plays over the top of Jeet's first utterance inviting you to speak to him.

[Razcar]

The main points of the system is to help tie together the stories, helping the player feel like they are actually a part of a greater story than just a bunch of individual quests, and to help give a gentle nudge to indecisive players when they first set foot in a new area.

Also, we're mainly point at quests that are integral to the story-line. We don't want to hold your hand through the entire game - at the end of the day, it's still your experience and your story.
Just TRd a character through Korthos, and thought the new system worked well and I can see how it would help a new player. Wasn't intrusive either, like the old help tips popping up in Korthos were. Good job.

[LightBear]

Veteran Players

Did you notice it, and if so, did you try to follow along with it? Yes and followed it untill I saw a LFM that involved going to the harbor, this I did by skipping ahead in the storyline. If you decide to return to kortos you, ofcourse, wind up on the sunny side. I think that broke the dm-narration as well.
Did it help you to understand anything about the Korthos story you may have missed when you played it previously? I don't think I've missed anything before, tho I do think the narration realy has it spot on.
If it ISN’T helpful, what is it lacking? You might want to clearify the differance between Snowy Side / Sunny Side. You might wanna help new players team up.
Is there anything that it’s doing particularly well that you want to see more of? Storyline tracking, it helps you to see if you're "Flagged"!


And Welcome!!!

[jkm]

The main points of the system is to help tie together the stories, helping the player feel like they are actually a part of a greater story than just a bunch of individual quests, and to help give a gentle nudge to indecisive players when they first set foot in a new area.

Also, we're mainly point at quests that are integral to the story-line. We don't want to hold your hand through the entire game - at the end of the day, it's still your experience and your story.

Okay so I got feedback from our TR group of 5 tonight.


On zone into shipwreck shore there were up to 3 wave files playing at the same time. You have these out of synchs all through the game, but you should AT LEAST fix the first touchpoint with your prospective new players. This was commented on by all 5 players in the group.

The arrows are a very good addition. One of the things that helped me the most when I started way back when was the cheezy arrows in Euphonia's challenge. They pointed out little things about the quest that I wouldn't have even come close to picking up.

The tooltips for the adventure box within Korthos need to be expanded. Currently, you have them just giving the text from the quest giver. What would be more helpful is if you clicked them they would give directions to the quest giver/entrance (similar to the rays for a rogue finding a trap -> White to quest giver Red to quest entrance.

You need to utilize this mechanism to add optional quests that cover classes as well as the UI. These optional quests would take the place of the NPCs standing around that provide zero help. A secondary thought is to bring back the old training golems from Euphonia's challenge to help people walk through things. DDO's combat system is its greatest advantage and you have to showcase it early to capture people's attention.

One of our group didn't like the changes at all. Turning them off by default on a TR would probably be a wise move -> His exact quote was "this is both annoying and stupid."

The last problem is the DM voices. Right now, Korthos has 4 different DM voices that chime in at random places in quests. It just seems so amateurish especially since some of them are totally unneeded like the inspired dude who chimes in "the skeletal mage is put to rest". It is the only place you are going to hear that guy for 17 levels and its just a random statement. I know how expensive/time consuming recording sessions can be for this, but you really need to think of a policy that Korthos is always uniform by quest. It is for all intents and purposes your storefront display for potential new customers, you just can't randomly throw a case of Coke in your Pepsi display.


There are a lot of other things that need to be done to korthos -> getting rid of the snowy/sunny side -> Changing the Cannith Crystal to not be so annoying on elite -> Getting rid of the gather mechanics in Misery's Peak -> Taking out all of the locked chests in the quests -> Adding a 10% striding buff in town -> Fixing the entrance to Sewer Rescue so that it doesn't always say "Blocked", etc etc.

[qoolboxer]

There are a lot of other things that need to be done to korthos -> getting rid of the snowy/sunny side -> Changing the Cannith Crystal to not be so annoying on elite -> Getting rid of the gather mechanics in Misery's Peak -> Taking out all of the locked chests in the quests -> Adding a 10% striding buff in town -> Fixing the entrance to Sewer Rescue so that it doesn't always say "Blocked", etc etc.

"getting rid of the snowy/sunny side"
Why? This is one of the most amazing things in DDO! After misery's peak, returning to korthos to find the snow has disappeared - priceless.

"Taking out all of the locked chests in the quests"
again, why? this makes rogues shine and appreciated. these are low level loot anyway, for veterans, it is better for you to just skip them. for newcomers, once again these are priceless.

"Adding a 10% striding buff in town"
not that i like it, but the slowness helps to make the place feels larger... it wows newcomers. speed the toons up and suddenly korthos becomes smaller. eventually familiarity and impatience sets in, that is why we have striding items.

remember that korthos is supposed to be the starter area. no doubt you will be sick of this place by now but you have to think of the newcomers - the little things that attracted you the first time round, after redoing countless times, you tend to take them for granted.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

Not funny-bad like the male narrator doing the female "prisoner's" voice in Cry for Help, just BAD-bad.

This reminds me of the male DM/GM "voice-acting" a female voice (the one of the female NPC protagonist) in "The Claw Of Vulkoor" (The Red Fens). I still want that changed.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

After misery's peak, returning to korthos to find the snow has disappeared - priceless.

I agree !

[Phemt81]

Is there anything that it’s doing particularly well that you want to see more of?
[/LIST]

You know how you this could be used?

In Threnal, when you talk to the NPC a big WARNING appears and the DM tells you: "if you proceed with this dialog you could reset your chain quest progress, BE CAREFUL"

And it would be profit players/developers sides.

No need to thank me for the idea :cool:


Thanks everybody for reading.

[Aldured]

Ok after reading this whole thread...

DMs past and present

Ok so I honestly like them both, and unlike everyother poster (though not necesarily gamer) I actually like the fact that I can hear both DMs in Korthos.

Previous DM had a class thats hard to match. His flair gave every quest a feeling of intrigue and awe that made me go WOOOOWWWW when I started and stand still until he finished talking.

New DM has a vitality that brings life to every char she does voices to, and gives a sence of struggle and urgency.

Hence if we were exploring an ancient library with rows upon rows of books looking for an ancient tome Id certainly favor the previous DM, yet if I were resisting an invation from say Droamm armies I certainly prefer the more dynamic DM. Both are incredible, and can bring so much to each quest.

Uhm removing the founding fathers of D&D ?? Yeah right!... :P

Still if anything you could make a new voice over and an option to use that or use the "vintage" narrator... That could be good, I certainly can see some guidance added outside the quests, and perhaps some expansion within (though many would complain about having more than one DM)


Quest objectives

I love RPGs, so though I understand most zergers to look for an off button my only complain was that in Heytons rest I couldnt both listen to the complete DM narration and finish all the optionals (more out of pride than XP but if its there I want to do it), which is no real complain after all.

Ill add to chorus of people who would like to see this outside of Korthos.


Voice overs

The biggest difference between Celimas and Drexelhand is not their aligment or flair. I dont really like her that much but fact is her voice makes her unique. Not saying Jacoby deserves one, but I honestly laughed silly at the mining challenges. Voice brings life to chars, though too many would simply dilute them... Still Id like to hear the archbishop at the catacombs and find him even more unfriendly...

BTW Is it just me, or did Talbron have his voice made less robotic (io two changes)?

Quest order

I agree on the quest order change:

1) Bar - binder

2) Storehouse (next to the bar after binding, few fights, simple)

3) Heytons rest (more fights, but not too many, you get a lot of pots and even some gear)

4) Protect the crystal (why? its easier to kill people than to avoid people from being killed; this to me is a much more advanced type of quest; everyone gets their say)

Perhaps the crystal is easier on normal, but it isnt on hard/elite; if people tend to group, theyll also tend to go in, you can tell them not to, but ego>reason...

Omissions

First off, add a party creation tutorial. No party no grotto (just before you enter, Im sure the friendly warforged could cover it). This should help newcomers to not solo their way until lvl 5 which is unfortunately very common.

I know the enhancements UI is under development, and Im sure the interface will be much much better. Still many newbies level but dont use their AP. So perhaps in the future this tutorial could point them to the right trainer when they get their first action point (considering normal difficulty and following progression if not monitoring your actual XP)

Guilds, banks, mail, etc... Well all in due time (and in Stormreach)

Final comments

Liked it, a lot. Some would love to be able to Skip/Unskip, personally I love RPGs and often played from beggining to end even once I had beaten them and knew all the dialog (Faxanadu in a day :D).

Hope this slowly makes its way into the rest of the content; this by itself is enough a reason to retry Korthos.

[jkm]

"getting rid of the snowy/sunny side"
Why? This is one of the most amazing things in DDO! After misery's peak, returning to korthos to find the snow has disappeared - priceless.

"Taking out all of the locked chests in the quests"
again, why? this makes rogues shine and appreciated. these are low level loot anyway, for veterans, it is better for you to just skip them. for newcomers, once again these are priceless.

"Adding a 10% striding buff in town"
not that i like it, but the slowness helps to make the place feels larger... it wows newcomers. speed the toons up and suddenly korthos becomes smaller. eventually familiarity and impatience sets in, that is why we have striding items.

remember that korthos is supposed to be the starter area. no doubt you will be sick of this place by now but you have to think of the newcomers - the little things that attracted you the first time round, after redoing countless times, you tend to take them for granted.

1. The problem with Snowy/Sunny is the mechanics that separate new players from everyone else. You can't cross group, you can't show them anything. They are stuck finding their way with people just as new as they are. This isn't that big of a deal if there are constantly 40 people on snowy side to help you, but that isn't the case. Most of the time, these people have to get through it on their own by soloing everything. Regardless of the buffs given to Korthos gear, remember that some classes are extremely weak at level 1 (Rogues/Wizards/Sorcs/Bards). The snowy side discriminates against these non-soloable classes and causes frustration that leads to quitting.

2. The problem with the locked chests is that it encourages players to take a level of rogue just to open chests. Korthos has almost as many locked chests in it as the rest of the game does. New players are rather annoyed when they get to the harbor and find out that their 1 wizard/1 rogue/1 cleric sucks and they need to reroll. Korthos needs to reflect the realities of the rest of the game, not have weird mechanics that don't exist anywhere else.

3. It may make the place seem bigger, but 0% striding is the absolute worst thing in the world about running around in the city. As a matter of a fact, it is the #1 reason I don't roll new characters. Korthos is a storefront, its supposed to attract and hook new players. Even if you bend the rules a little, you need to make sure that people keep playing until level 9. After that you'll have them hooked.

[qoolboxer]

1. The problem with Snowy/Sunny is the mechanics that separate new players from everyone else. You can't cross group, you can't show them anything. They are stuck finding their way with people just as new as they are. This isn't that big of a deal if there are constantly 40 people on snowy side to help you, but that isn't the case. Most of the time, these people have to get through it on their own by soloing everything. Regardless of the buffs given to Korthos gear, remember that some classes are extremely weak at level 1 (Rogues/Wizards/Sorcs/Bards). The snowy side discriminates against these non-soloable classes and causes frustration that leads to quitting.

2. The problem with the locked chests is that it encourages players to take a level of rogue just to open chests. Korthos has almost as many locked chests in it as the rest of the game does. New players are rather annoyed when they get to the harbor and find out that their 1 wizard/1 rogue/1 cleric sucks and they need to reroll. Korthos needs to reflect the realities of the rest of the game, not have weird mechanics that don't exist anywhere else.

3. It may make the place seem bigger, but 0% striding is the absolute worst thing in the world about running around in the city. As a matter of a fact, it is the #1 reason I don't roll new characters. Korthos is a storefront, its supposed to attract and hook new players. Even if you bend the rules a little, you need to make sure that people keep playing until level 9. After that you'll have them hooked.

1. Separating new and veteran players is PRECISELY why we have sunny/snowy sides - it protects the new players. Veteran players who want to play mentor can roll a new level 1 toon and stay on the snowy side. Newbie players can also consciously make the choice to skip the Korthos storyline and get on the sunny side. The choice is there. Not having this sunny/snowy side can really spoil the game for newcomers, with veterans spoiling newbies showing them everything, just zerging through, or insisting that everyone do silly "leet" bravery bonus streaks. Those classes you claim are non-soloable - well, great way to make them use hirelings. Korthos is a great place to learn how to play your class - first solo on normal/casual, or group in hard/elite.

2. Rerolling is one of the realities of the game - again, great place to let them know. And a level of rogue is not gimp, just like not all TRs are guaranteed non-gimp.

3. Once 10% striding is the norm, it will feel slow. Speed is relative.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

1. Separating new and veteran players is PRECISELY why we have sunny/snowy sides - it protects the new players.

This is my opinion as well. It also hinders griefing.