Question about Harry and Improved Destruction

[Chauncey1]

Apologies if this is a repeat.
But my guild is going to be running shroud tonight (me also, provided my wrist ain't in pain) and they want one or two melees to use weapons with Improved Destruction along with Improved Sunder to see about getting Harry's AC down so we can kill him faster.

Any thoughts? Suggestions? Analysis? Spock? Spoooock?

*edit* as pointed out by someone down thread, I said AC, when I should have said Fort.

[bowiehero]

You probably don't want a melee to be dedicating an improved destruction weapon unless it's an off-hand eKronzek.

You have a 20 second window to refresh the stack, so you can have an arty dog or have someone use an imp destruction bow and plink them once in a while. There are a lot of other ways to get imp destruction going instead of relying on one of the dps'ers to do it.

[adam1oftheround]

While Improved Destruction will net you an effective +8 to hit, your guild should have enough at it's disposal to be hitting on a 2 unless there are other issues. One person wielding Improved Destruction in off hand should be enough to keep the effect on Big Red.

You might be getting +8 hit and damage from bard buffs, +1 haste (untyped), +1 rage (Str), +1 Prayer ( luck ), 15 BAB if using divine power clickie, +5 from weapon, add to that any enhancement, strength (madstone), greater bane, righteous, insight, or exceptional bonuses and you can get +50 to hit with very little effort.

If you are having trouble hitting Harry on a 2, think back to using the correct tools for the job.

[Chauncey1]

Thanks for the input folks :)
We're not having any problems taking him down on normal or hard, but I think the guild leaders just want to experiment a bit.
And it's entirely possible I totally misunderstood what they were asking.

[danotmano1998]

Well, best way I've found to take Harry down really fast is to have a few arcanes in the party dotting him like mad.
Divine punishments are another huge bonus.

Seriously. Try a party with multiple dots. Harry goes down so fast he'll be dead before you even start to worry about the whirling blades.

[Qezuzu]

While Improved Destruction will net you an effective +8 to hit, your guild should have enough at it's disposal to be hitting on a 2 unless there are other issues. One person wielding Improved Destruction in off hand should be enough to keep the effect on Big Red.

You might be getting +8 hit and damage from bard buffs, +1 haste (untyped), +1 rage (Str), +1 Prayer ( luck ), 15 BAB if using divine power clickie, +5 from weapon, add to that any enhancement, strength (madstone), greater bane, righteous, insight, or exceptional bonuses and you can get +50 to hit with very little effort.

If you are having trouble hitting Harry on a 2, think back to using the correct tools for the job.

The point is to lower Harry's fort by 8%, which increases DPS (especially for rogues).

[Crann]

The point is to lower Harry's fort by 8%, which increases DPS (especially for rogues).

This.

His AC is near meaningless, its the fort reduction that will net you more DPS.

[Arcath]

My ranger wears the HoX breastplate with destruction on (-4 to AC version) and I really don't notice any difference in the time it takes to kill him. I think the number of divine and arcane dots is a much bigger factor in how fast you can take him down.

[Uma-Quixote]

One melee character (my weakest,a gimped 2wf 19th level pally) I run shroud with is using imp destruction as an off hand... I don't think it helps much at all...would rather be imp sundering and as soon as I have a second litII I'll use that instead.

[chrichton]

You may want to re-read the description of the destruction effect. Recent changes made it behave differently. (I forget the details.)

[sweez]

The point is to lower Harry's fort by 8%, which increases DPS (especially for rogues).

Yes. However, the OP specifically said:


...see about getting Harry's AC down so we can kill him faster.


Anyway, while the fort debuff is indeed useful, if you can't hit Harry (whichever diff) on a 2, well...

[porq]

One melee character (my weakest,a gimped 2wf 19th level pally) I run shroud with is using imp destruction as an off hand... I don't think it helps much at all...would rather be imp sundering and as soon as I have a second litII I'll use that instead.



The point is to lower Harry's fort by 8%, which increases DPS (especially for rogues).

Yeah.

Improved destruction would probably be a lot more noticeable if the melee had a heavy reliance on Sneak Attack or criticals for a large portion of their output.

I heard from someone(convincing, eh?) that Destruction and Improved Destruction stack now. If that is actually true then it should add to -12% fort, which should stack with Improved Sunder too.

[Chauncey1]

I got confused, I said AC instead of fort on my original post.
Apologies.

[Polarkin]

If your guild is trying to develop tactical approaches to how you engage in a raid then this is totally worth the time doing.

While harry (norm/hard/elite) may not really *need* improved destruction, making your guild (and melee in particular) aware and/or cognizant of the value of debuffing weapons and abilities will pay off in the long run.

Walking into an epic LoB where nobody has:
Destruction
Improved Destruction
Wrack Construct
Improved Sunder
Cursespewing
Improved Cursespewing

Is probably not the most efficient use of a raids time and resources.

[Chauncey1]

Yeah.

Improved destruction would probably be a lot more noticeable if the melee had a heavy reliance on Sneak Attack or criticals for a large portion of their output.

I heard from someone(convincing, eh?) that Destruction and Improved Destruction stack now. If that is actually true then it should add to -12% fort, which should stack with Improved Sunder too.

Anecdotal evidence FTW!

Seriously though, that would be sweet if true.

[Chauncey1]

If your guild is trying to develop tactical approaches to how you engage in a raid then this is totally worth the time doing.

While harry (norm/hard/elite) may not really *need* improved destruction, making your guild (and melee in particular) aware and/or cognizant of the value of debuffing weapons and abilities will pay off in the long run.

Walking into an epic LoB where nobody has:
Destruction
Improved Destruction
Wrack Construct
Improved Sunder
Cursespewing
Improved Cursespewing

Is probably not the most efficient use of a raids time and resources.

Indeed, LoB was mentioned in the guild forum on the same thread regarding Imp. Destruction. I think they're wanting to get a static guild raid group going, and want everyone to be prepared.

[JollySwagMan]

I think Strength Sapping can work on Harry (if he rolls a 1)

Hamstring is also supposed to be nice, have read that it actually slows down his melee attacks and not just his movement speed.

[Crann]

I heard from someone(convincing, eh?) that Destruction and Improved Destruction stack now. If that is actually true then it should add to -12% fort, which should stack with Improved Sunder too.

From the U13 Release notes:

"◦The weapon property Improved Destruction now functions correctly. "

Hopefully the stacking is what they fixed. I know they used to stack when it was only the AC reduction.

I made a set of holy silver swords, destruction on one, and imp. destruction on the other, just to use on my bard as a debuffer but they did not stack pre U13.

I need to try them again.

[Dragavon]

If you are having trouble hitting Harry on a 2, think back to using the correct tools for the job.

It is not only about the AC debuff, there is also an 8% fortification debuff on imp dest. That means higher DPS overall ;)

[MrkGrismer]

I know it doesn't break DR, but I wonder if the new Envenomed Blade would be useful since it has AP -10%. I'm currently trying to farm a pair for my FvS, just because I think they are cool, but it hadn't really occurred to me that if i use them for a few seconds in a boss battle it might work to lower the fort...
(http://ddowiki.com/page/Envenomed_Blade)

[Dozen_Black_Roses]

Your guild may also want to have a favor soul up with the melees for the fortification debuff from divine condemnation. It stacks. Take a look here (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4098065&postcount=34) for more details from Eladrin.

[Qezuzu]

I know it doesn't break DR, but I wonder if the new Envenomed Blade would be useful since it has AP -10%. I'm currently trying to farm a pair for my FvS, just because I think they are cool, but it hadn't really occurred to me that if i use them for a few seconds in a boss battle it might work to lower the fort...
(http://ddowiki.com/page/Envenomed_Blade)

I wouldn't.

Bosses whose fort is worth lowering will generally have high DR, and you'd lose a lot of damage before you consider the slightly higher crit rate.

I would simply get a kronzeks. It deals a lot of damage, and break DR with an arty+slot.