So whats the verdict? (new epic items)

[Asmodeus451]

So what is eveyrone's verdict/opinion on the new epic items?

me personally, i dont see anything particularly stellar aka nothing i'll be farming for


lets hear your thoughts

[maddmatt70]

The dwarven war axe is the best dwarven war axe in the game and better then the LS2 dwarven war axe. How does the dwarven war axe compare to the LS2 khopesh? Well at least this makes the number folks break out their dps calculators and ponder because it is that sweet. The bastard sword is similiarly good but dwarves get +2 damage with the axe just saying. There are some interesting niche weapons the bow/the umd one handed item/etc..

[Viisari]

Flameward will be awesome as a UMD swappable, armors are ****, those holy weapons look good, blunt bows excel for epics/abbot, the raksasha hide looked pretty good for any light armor AC builds, poison weapons might be decent against trash but useless against many bosses.

So all in all pretty decent I guess?

As a side note, scroll drop rate seemed higher than other epics, a bunch of people took some notes from several different groups and figured it'd be around 1:50 kills in the new quests, seals seem to drop from every chest and shards apparently from each quest end chests including any optional chests (atleast in the final quest, the optional chest for keeping the flame alive dropped a shard for our group).

[Asmodeus451]

so, took a second look and that b-sword is quite nice looking, tho i'd need 2 of them and about 40 tokens (slot one with silver, other adamantine)

the eFlameward is essentially a +8 CHA item, AND has +5 UMD. HOLY @%*&

everyone and their mother is gonna want one of those, Sorcs and bards especially

[tinyelvis]

so, took a second look and that b-sword is quite nice looking, tho i'd need 2 of them and about 40 tokens (slot one with silver, other adamantine)

the eFlameward is essentially a +8 CHA item, AND has +5 UMD. HOLY @%*&

everyone and their mother is gonna want one of those, Sorcs and bards especially

Im guessing you dont play a sorcerer or bard. That item isnt really for a charisma based toon. Its a +9 UMD item for those who need it (typically not bards or sorcerers). Combine that with a heal scroll in a hotbar for example if you are a fighter self healer.

No real loot here for casters again.

[Asmodeus451]

Im guessing you dont play a sorcerer or bard. That item isnt really for a charisma based toon. Its a +9 UMD item for those who need it (typically not bards or sorcerers). Combine that with a heal scroll in a hotbar for example if you are a fighter self healer.

No real loot here for casters again.

i disagree. a single item that provides +8 CHA is great for CHA based toons

[NaturalHazard]

i disagree. a single item that provides +8 CHA is great for CHA based toons

my spellsinger will like this +1 more to dcs yes please!!!!!!:D:D:D:D

[tinyelvis]

i disagree. a single item that provides +8 CHA is great for CHA based toons

You do realize dont you that you can build a +9 charisma weapon with more bonus effects at 12th level. I think this item was miss labeled. It should have been called,

Staff of healing.

[NaturalHazard]

You do realize dont you that you can build a +9 charisma weapon with more bonus effects at 12th level. I think this item was miss labeled. It should have been called,

Staff of healing.

Do you mean a +6 charisma weapon with a +1 and +2 *exceptional* charisma bonus on it? Because its a different thing to a +9 charisma item.

So this new epic item is really only a +6 charisma item with a +2 exceptional charisma? if thats the case then meh can make a greensteel item or get a tod ring which will give more of a charisma bonus.

I got excited because I saw +8 charisma which is better than my +7 epic edge.

[sweez]

eFrost helm slotted with +1 cha is a +8 cha item... so is an eEdge with a +1 slotted cha.

[Asmodeus451]

Do you mean a +6 charisma weapon with a +1 and +2 *exceptional* charisma bonus on it? Because its a different thing to a +9 charisma item.

So this new epic item is really only a +6 charisma item with a +2 exceptional charisma? if thats the case then meh can make a greensteel item or get a tod ring which will give more of a charisma bonus.

I got excited because I saw +8 charisma which is better than my +7 epic edge.

its actually a +7 with +1 exceptional on the same item. which is EXACTLY the same as +8

[Asmodeus451]

eFrost helm slotted with +1 cha is a +8 cha item... so is an eEdge with a +1 slotted cha.

and the club is a +7+1 AND a red slot still open...........

[sweez]

and the club is a +7+1 AND a red slot still open...........

True, seems like a better eEdge for a bard that doesn't melee a lot I guess. Fire absorb is also nice for eDragon, although the IMPROVED fire resistance has me lost for words lol.

[NaturalHazard]

its actually a +7 with +1 exceptional on the same item. which is EXACTLY the same as +8

I dont think it is exactly the same its a +7 with a +1 exceptional, saying something is +8 is misleading because yes I *did* think wooohooooo +8 with my +1 and +2 exceptional cha from my tod ring whoot +11 to charisma.

+7 and a +1 that doesnt stack with other +1 exceptionals is not Exactly +8.

[Asmodeus451]

True, seems like a better eEdge for a bard that doesn't melee a lot I guess. Fire absorb is also nice for eDragon, although the IMPROVED fire resistance has me lost for words lol.

fire absorb10% +20 resist is still prob more damage mitigation than 30 or even 40 pts of resist. and its also not like 30 pt resist isnt incredibly common



in any case, i'm done arguing the merits of a single item. thats not the purpose of this thread. would love to hear people's thoughts on the other items

[Asmodeus451]

I dont think it is exactly the same its a +7 with a +1 exceptional, saying something is +8 is misleading because yes I *did* think wooohooooo +8 with my +1 and +2 exceptional cha from my tod ring whoot +11 to charisma.

+7 and a +1 that doesnt stack with other +1 exceptionals is not Exactly +8.

ok, you made your point. please see my post above regarding the thread

[NaturalHazard]

ok, you made your point. please see my post above regarding the thread

I don't know it might be more useful for sorcs than bards? they could use take out a tod ring for a epic ring of elemental essence any other good rings for sorcs?

Anyway you made me feel stupid lol getting all excited over +8 charisma like a noob.

I was drooling lol.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I definitely want one of these on my sorcerer. Sorc ToD rings don't come with +1 exceptional charisma so I'm currently using Shard of Xoriat of all things (as I'm not going to slot epic items until I have a final gear set to avoid wasting tokens).

Slot the club with +2 good luck and it becomes a +11 UMD stick, omfg.

I'll be looking for a silver slinger for my Artificer life. A bow of the silver flame for my following archer life (so a ways off).

I'll be looking for an Epic Darkstorm Helm to replace my minos on my PM (not sure where to put heavy fort or toughness in that case though).

I'll be looking for Epic Golden Guile for my unarmed rogue.

Scroll drop rate was good but got pretty skunked as far as seals/shards/base items went, oh well, about to do another run.

[sirgog]

Epic Flameward is obviously good if you aren't yet fully geared, or as an item geared toons swap in when they have death penalties and still need to scrollheal. (You don't want to be that idiot that fails a Heal scroll in epic LOB at a critical time because you have a death penalty or two and you roll a 2+37 on your UMD check).

The shield is best in slot for Defenders in fights where your AC is too low to matter but the boss throws a lot of elemental damage, and also is quite solid as an AC item alongside Epic Chimera's Fang. Great on Cojoined Abashai Devastator, Lailat, any future boss that uses stacking DOTs, Master Artificer titans (if your Balance is extraordinarily high) and no doubt there are other places too. It's also solid all around and probably equal to or slightly better overall than Levik's.

The DWA and Bastard Sword are top-notch.

Darkstorm Helm will fit many Pale Master builds too; depending upon whether or not you use the Mabar robe.


So yeah, there's good stuff. Nothing game-changing though like the eClaw gloves.

[Asmodeus451]

Epic Flameward is obviously good if you aren't yet fully geared, or as an item geared toons swap in when they have death penalties and still need to scrollheal. (You don't want to be that idiot that fails a Heal scroll in epic LOB at a critical time because you have a death penalty or two and you roll a 2+37 on your UMD check).

The shield is best in slot for Defenders in fights where your AC is too low to matter but the boss throws a lot of elemental damage, and also is quite solid as an AC item alongside Epic Chimera's Fang. Great on Cojoined Abashai Devastator, Lailat, any future boss that uses stacking DOTs, Master Artificer titans (if your Balance is extraordinarily high) and no doubt there are other places too. It's also solid all around and probably equal to or slightly better overall than Levik's.

The DWA and Bastard Sword are top-notch.

Darkstorm Helm will fit many Pale Master builds too; depending upon whether or not you use the Mabar robe.


So yeah, there's good stuff. Nothing game-changing though like the eClaw gloves.


how would you compare the B-sword to the eFang, or an Alchemical 3xAir?

[Muspellsheimr]

As a side note, scroll drop rate seemed higher than other epics, a bunch of people took some notes from several different groups and figured it'd be around 1:50 kills in the new quests, seals seem to drop from every chest and shards apparently from each quest end chests including any optional chests (atleast in the final quest, the optional chest for keeping the flame alive dropped a shard for our group).

I have received 3-4 scrolls in under 100 total kills farming echronoscope. I saw three scrolls drop for the same person (in a full group of 12) in under 50 kills in the raid.

I completed the entire new chain on epic, with two scrolls drop (both in the second quest) for the group.

You need a LOT more data before you can claim scroll drop rates are actually higher.


Oh, and not a single seal for our entire group. I pulled a shard of the envenomed blade in the chest behind the barrier of the optional fight in Servants. Someone else pulled a shard of (I think) bulwark in the non-epic end chest of Spinner. No named items or shards/seals in the epic chest for anyone, any of the three quests.


On topic, some of the new items are actually pretty nice. Nothing that I want, however. Maybe eventually I will use some of them.

[xveganrox]

Most look pretty meh to me. A few reactions on the ones I've seen - -

Cruel Nobility - If we could change the Unholy into Holy this would be a suitably epic scimitar, especially with druids on the way (scimitar proficiency). As is, the slicing/bleeding/disint combo is nice, but there's nothing that breaks DR so it'll need to be slotted to work on devils. At least you can make a couple to wreck Running With Devils.

Flameward - I'm making one of these when I get a chance, because the huge one-item boost to UMD is unique and powerful. Forgot DW and have 6 negative levels now? Forget using Restoration scrolls, with one of these and a skill boost I can pull out a greater restoration. Ditto with death penalties.

Fury of the Flame - At first glance, "neat, a two-hander..." at second, ".. that looks much less effective than my eAG or triple-pos maul in every situation.." On the bright side, it has impact, so it can be used by someone without improved crit: blunt (which is... everyone, right?). Fracturing is a nice free 2d6, but the crit profile sucks, which is why people don't often specialize in mauls. Not much reason to get this.

Luminous Truth - The world needs more decent quarterstaves. I don't see this as fitting that niche, unfortunately. Base threat range of 19-20 is huge for q-staff users, though, so this is definitely a start. Combined with the other effects, this makes for a solid weapon on non-fire resistant mobs. I collect q-staves, so I'll definitely make one.

Some of the armor looks halfway decent for someone who hasn't got other epic/end-game gear, too, which got me sort of thinking - that's who this stuff should appeal to. These are F2P epics, and looked at without comparison to P2P packs, the gear in them is top-notch.

[tinyelvis]

I definitely want one of these on my sorcerer. Sorc ToD rings don't come with +1 exceptional charisma so I'm currently using Shard of Xoriat of all things (as I'm not going to slot epic items until I have a final gear set to avoid wasting tokens).

Slot the club with +2 good luck and it becomes a +11 UMD stick, omfg.

I'll be looking for a silver slinger for my Artificer life. A bow of the silver flame for my following archer life (so a ways off).

I'll be looking for an Epic Darkstorm Helm to replace my minos on my PM (not sure where to put heavy fort or toughness in that case though).

I'll be looking for Epic Golden Guile for my unarmed rogue.

Scroll drop rate was good but got pretty skunked as far as seals/shards/base items went, oh well, about to do another run.

+2 good luck is a buff you always want active, so better to slot it to a permanent spot. The +7 charisma with +1 exceptional charisma is something someone who does not have a charisma based toon could use best. Especially in weapon swappable form. The fact that it comes with +5 umd means that a self healing melee, for example, could then equip this item with heal scrolls to his hotbar. Any time he needs a heal he gets the buff. Furthermore, he does not have to wear (or swap to) a +5 UMD item anymore and it opens a slot and makes for quicker healing. Whether the developers planned it that way or not, this is clearly a melee or non-charisma based scroll healer oriented item.

I suppose if you are a charisma based toon and you have poor gear this might be useful, but do you really want to grind for the epic version of this when you could easily pick up the same or higher bonus elsewhere, especially if you dont mind using a weapon spot for your charisma bonus? Keep in mind the +1 exceptional buff is pretty much the easiest buff to fit to an epic item. It can fit into any weapon or item crystal spot.

Other weapons with +7 charisma and potential for +1 exceptional include dynastic falcata and elyd edge. These items are rarely used by a sorcerer, though some bards use the later. The addition of the +5 UMD is only imperatively useful to someone with UMD below say 39 (not typically a capped sorcerer or bard).

Since the plus 5 bonus is supposedly competence it should not stack with seven fingered gloves. I predict melee and other non charisma based scroll healers will be grinding for this swappable weapon to buff charisma and replace the gloves. In the unlikely event that the +5 UMD comp bonus stacks with gloves, then I predict a mad rush by all melee for this item.

[wax_on_wax_off]

crit profile sucks, which is why people don't often specialize in mauls.

Mauls have the same crit profile as great axes.

[FuzzyDuck81]

From what i've seen, the new stuff looks good - perfectly decent & viable, yet not really competition for some of the existing epic gear, which IMO is about right.. unless i'm being very dumb & missing something obvious, aren't these the first (barring challenges & events) free2play epic quests (& therefore epic loot available to f2p) in the game?

[Esserbe]

They are indeed, and I'm looking forward to hear of fully F2P "I won't ever buy anything to support the game I play and enjoy!" people tackling the second quest on epic.

[NaturalHazard]

Mauls have the same crit profile as great axes.

Yeah thats right, anyway I thought most people go for slashing because theres more to choose from, greataxes and falchions and more slashing epic weapons.

[Zonixx]

I want an epic silver slinger for my arti :)

[Viisari]

You need a LOT more data before you can claim scroll drop rates are actually higher.

Sure it could've been luck, but when there's a dozen groups reporting the same thing it starts paint a different picture.

And two scrolls is more than some of my groups have gotten when we've ran through all the desert quests :p

Yes there needs to be more data, but that was merely the initial impression.

[djl]

The end fight of the second quest is brutal. You need an EDA-ready CC caster to have any chance-- I don't see it being pugged on epic much. It's pretty much like an Epic Weapons Shipment.

[DDOisFree]

For all the people raving about the bog standard +7 / +1 Cha item, why not just make an epic helm of frost and a pure Cha GS item?

Elyd edge is still better as it has sup potency 6 on it too.

[Candela90]

Well I liked only the Epic Golden Guile. Fine thing for mine rogue

[Matuse]

The end fight of the second quest is brutal. You need an EDA-ready CC caster to have any chance-- I don't see it being pugged on epic much. It's pretty much like an Epic Weapons Shipment.

It must really scale up a ton then. I ran it on solo-normal and the spawn sizes were pretty tiny. 4-5 monsters in each wave.

[Esserbe]

It must really scale up a ton then. I ran it on solo-normal and the spawn sizes were pretty tiny. 4-5 monsters in each wave.

I ran it on elite, full party, and it was pretty crazy with how many mobs were active. Definitely like elite WS in a group.

[Sarisa]

The end fight of the second quest is brutal. You need an EDA-ready CC caster to have any chance-- I don't see it being pugged on epic much. It's pretty much like an Epic Weapons Shipment.


It must really scale up a ton then. I ran it on solo-normal and the spawn sizes were pretty tiny. 4-5 monsters in each wave.


I ran it on elite, full party, and it was pretty crazy with how many mobs were active. Definitely like elite WS in a group.

Definitely. On Epic, at one point, we had close to 40 mobs alive at once, and reached orange alert when the Jarilith wave spawned, though many were Fascinated so they weren't all active. It's brutal, and the only way my group survived as due to Fascinate.

[wax_on_wax_off]

+2 good luck is a buff you always want active, so better to slot it to a permanent spot. The +7 charisma with +1 exceptional charisma is something someone who does not have a charisma based toon could use best. Especially in weapon swappable form. The fact that it comes with +5 umd means that a self healing melee, for example, could then equip this item with heal scrolls to his hotbar. Any time he needs a heal he gets the buff. Furthermore, he does not have to wear (or swap to) a +5 UMD item anymore and it opens a slot and makes for quicker healing. Whether the developers planned it that way or not, this is clearly a melee or non-charisma based scroll healer oriented item.

I suppose if you are a charisma based toon and you have poor gear this might be useful, but do you really want to grind for the epic version of this when you could easily pick up the same or higher bonus elsewhere, especially if you dont mind using a weapon spot for your charisma bonus? Keep in mind the +1 exceptional buff is pretty much the easiest buff to fit to an epic item. It can fit into any weapon or item crystal spot.

Other weapons with +7 charisma and potential for +1 exceptional include dynastic falcata and elyd edge. These items are rarely used by a sorcerer, though some bards use the later. The addition of the +5 UMD is only imperatively useful to someone with UMD below say 39 (not typically a capped sorcerer or bard).

Since the plus 5 bonus is supposedly competence it should not stack with seven fingered gloves. I predict melee and other non charisma based scroll healers will be grinding for this swappable weapon to buff charisma and replace the gloves. In the unlikely event that the +5 UMD comp bonus stacks with gloves, then I predict a mad rush by all melee for this item.

Last time I checked I have to swap in Cartouche if I want to have no-fail heal scrolls. Did I build wrong?

Stats:
18+5+2+6+1+4+4+2=42 charisma with ship/yugo (just missing +7 item, +3/4 tome, +1 exceptional)
11+15+4+2+3+3+6=44 UMD capable with maximum buffs and spyglass equpped (so LotD taken off). That gives me a flexibility of 1 point to maintain 100% on resurrection scrolls. I like resurrection scrolls. I also like to be able to hit a scroll even if things are going wrong.

Honestly, no one cares what you're capable of in a good group, it's irrelevant. Things go to hell? That's when it matters.

[Chauncey1]

So what is eveyrone's verdict/opinion on the new epic items?

me personally, i dont see anything particularly stellar aka nothing i'll be farming for


lets hear your thoughts

Well, I suppose when they're fully upgraded, they'll be SUPER nice.
Right now, they're still very nice, just not as good as some other named or GS items.
But so far, I've only seen a few of the items, a couple of xbows, a necklace, and that's about it.

[Pank]

One of the x-bows, Doublecross, has in the epic version, 10% fortification debuff and enervation, and INT-based to hit, according to wiki: http://ddowiki.com/page/Update_13_named_items

Epic Doublecross Bow - Repeating Light Crossbow (2d8) - +6, Poison Burst, Crippling, Armor-Piercing - 10%, Nightshade Venom, Enervation, Red Slot

It seems to me this is an impressive trash beater. Would love to have mine epic crafted to test.
On an Arty with IPS...sweet

[Thrudh]

as I'm not going to slot epic items until I have a final gear set to avoid wasting tokens).

Good luck with that with epic levels coming out in June.

I think we're ALL going to be doing the old inventory shuffle. I'm saving all my tokens.

[Cyr]

Ho hum...nothing that I am excited about really.

I will probably run it for the heck of it anyways, but I am certainly not going to be bugging guildies to farm it with me.

[Merrelll]

so, took a second look and that b-sword is quite nice looking, tho i'd need 2 of them and about 40 tokens (slot one with silver, other adamantine)

the eFlameward is essentially a +8 CHA item, AND has +5 UMD. HOLY @%*&

everyone and their mother is gonna want one of those, Sorcs and bards especially
Also rogues. :)

[tinyelvis]

Last time I checked I have to swap in Cartouche if I want to have no-fail heal scrolls. Did I build wrong?

Stats:
18+5+2+6+1+4+4+2=42 charisma with ship/yugo (just missing +7 item, +3/4 tome, +1 exceptional)
11+15+4+2+3+3+6=44 UMD capable with maximum buffs and spyglass equpped (so LotD taken off). That gives me a flexibility of 1 point to maintain 100% on resurrection scrolls. I like resurrection scrolls. I also like to be able to hit a scroll even if things are going wrong.

Honestly, no one cares what you're capable of in a good group, it's irrelevant. Things go to hell? That's when it matters.

I'm a little confused here. You have a 44 UMD, so dropping the +3 cartouche bonus gives you still 41 which is plenty high to cast a heal scroll. Or did you mean that you intend to replace the +3 carouche bonus with a +5 bonus to give you 44. But even here without the +5 you sit at a 39 which again is good enough for no fail heal scroll. Did I add wrong?

This discussion might be for naught. The epic version of the flameward was removed recently from the wiki. I wonder if the epic value actually is +7/+1 charisma +5 UMD comp. bonus. I suppose it will be some time before we really know.

[sirgog]

I'm a little confused here. You have a 44 UMD, so dropping the +3 cartouche bonus gives you still 41 which is plenty high to cast a heal scroll. Or did you mean that you intend to replace the +3 carouche bonus with a +5 bonus to give you 44. But even here without the +5 you sit at a 39 which again is good enough for no fail heal scroll. Did I add wrong?

This discussion might be for naught. The epic version of the flameward was removed recently from the wiki. I wonder if the epic value actually is +7/+1 charisma +5 UMD comp. bonus. I suppose it will be some time before we really know.

Mediocre ones build a character that is 'good enough if nothing goes wrong', then blame luck when they wipe. Good players recognise that they will sometimes die, plan for it, and have the tools to recover - after all, there has been only one epic LOB completion with no deaths across ALL servers combined.

39 or 40 UMD is not appropriate for a scrollhealer in epic LOB. I've seen a group wipe on Hard because their bard (last healer up after a mishandled Whirlwind) failed a Heal scroll because of their two death penalties.

But if a character with 39 UMD in their normal raiding gear carries an epic Flameward and then dies to something (Tactical Detonation when an arti spawns at 5%, Cometfall at an awful time, whatever), they can be raised, swap to an epic Flameward, and be no-fail scrolling again immediately.

That bard could be mediocre and say 'it wasn't my fault'. Hell, they did well trying to salvage the raid. But if they were a top-notch player they would have thought 'I need to consider hotswap items for situations like this' and so they'd get an Epic Flameward.

[Sarisa]

If I didn't have Seven Fingered Gloves on every character, I'd go for the Flameward. I have no problems passing those parts to guildmates so they can get good UMD gear. I agree with Sirgog, every little bit of extra UMD is good in order to help recover from bad situations. 43 UMD is also no-fail for Resurrection scrolls.

I plan on making an Epic Rakshasa Hide for my evasive Paladin for AC mode. Not quite as good as Duelist Leathers, but I don't have a set of Leathers made. Even the non-epic Hide increased by AC by 3 over my Epic Vulkoorim Fighting Leathers, and that's without a dex item (I have 6 DEX slotted on the Fighting Leathers).

I want to make a Luminous Truth for my Cleric, more for fun than anything else.

I may work toward a Darkstorm Helm for my caster's final life back to Air Savant, unless I decide to go with a 3-piece Abishai set instead.

[voodoogroves]

The shield is best in slot for Defenders in fights where your AC is too low to matter but the boss throws a lot of elemental damage, and also is quite solid as an AC item alongside Epic Chimera's Fang. Great on Cojoined Abashai Devastator, Lailat, any future boss that uses stacking DOTs, Master Artificer titans (if your Balance is extraordinarily high) and no doubt there are other places too. It's also solid all around and probably equal to or slightly better overall than Levik's.
I love the shield; I'm curious if someone can confirm on live if it is BTA or becomes BTC? (some of the notes I've seen conflict)


The DWA and Bastard Sword are top-notch. Drool.


Darkstorm Helm will fit many Pale Master builds too; depending upon whether or not you use the Mabar robe.
Many have given up and are slotting INT items in the armor slot, so for those this could be a potential fit.

I also am liking the Guile. I'm using a shimmering pendant on my rogue in must epic PUGs right now, just for the diplo to shed aggro ... and I have to swap in for bluff. Nice consolidator here, with a bonus +1 skills and improved deception - much better combo. Also allows me for a kinda seamless upgrade path on TR lives using a Ring of Lies early, then at 20 rearranging to a different ring.

[tinyelvis]

........

39 or 40 UMD is not appropriate for a scrollhealer in epic LOB. I've seen a group wipe on Hard because their bard (last healer up after a mishandled Whirlwind) failed a Heal scroll because of their two death penalties.

But if a character with 39 UMD in their normal raiding gear carries an epic Flameward and then dies to something (Tactical Detonation when an arti spawns at 5%, Cometfall at an awful time, whatever), they can be raised, swap to an epic Flameward, and be no-fail scrolling again immediately.
...........

Not sure this has much to do with my main point. Namely, that a non charisma based scroll healer would value this item typically more. I also don't recall writing that there never would be a good reason for someone with a 39 UMD to pick up more UMD.

I, however, could come up with a scenario where swapping was a bad idea. For example,


....But if a character with 39 UMD in their normal raiding gear carries an epic Flameward and then dies to something (Tactical Detonation when an arti spawns at 5%, Cometfall at an awful time, whatever), they can be raised, swap to an epic Flameward, and lose a point of UMD if they swap that item with their +9 GS charisma item while also wearing seven fingered gloves.

Now, I came up with a hypothetical that outlines a bad time to use the epic flameward. Could I then go on to imply that you are foolish and dont realize that +9 charisma is better than +8? I suppose I could, but other than forum rhetoric designed to make you look foolish it would have no real substance. Because, I pretty well know, even though you didn't explicitly state it that you understand that +9 charisma is as good or better than +8. Just as you surely must know that I understand that if someone can improve their UMD with the device (even possibly just under unusual situations) and want to carry it for that reason, its a perfectly valid idea.

However, none of this in any way refutes my main point. Namely, that typically, a non charisma based scroll healer would value this item more. He does not have to equip a charisma item. He doesnt have to epuip a +5 UMD item (potentially opening two item spots on his toon). And he can scroll heal as fast or faster.

[-Avalon-]

Dunno... I think the Fury of the Flame maul is pretty sweet! Without having an Improved crit feat, it is very close to eSoS DPS according to the calculator (maybe 5 points shy) in epic base form... So, for builds that are trying to get decent DPS, but are a little feat starved and used to FORCE IC into their lists at the cost of some other great feats... Is pretty nice.

The fact that it gives a slightly less optimal 2H to F2P people is even better. I don't have VoN, I have 7 packs, but VoN is not one of them =/ So, for me, it works out awesomely! The only real drawback is that the ability listed on the FoF does not count for a pre-req to getting OC, so still would be best to get IC lol

Btw, OC REALLY gives a bump to DPS with it, since it is already a 19-20 range, with x3, the +1 modifier on 19-20 means a simple straight forward +1 modifier IMO... and that bumps up the base damage, but also gives an extra 2d10 on crits due to the double crit enchantments (Flaming Burst/Brilliance)...

If using the dreadnought ED, there is no 'sword bonus' on top tier, but there is one for blunts (and axes)... which would give it an 18/x3;19-20/x4 then... Which would bring it even closer to eSoS... and actually, on DPS calc, shows eFoF as being AHEAD of it at some points...

So, yeah, I think the FoF/eFoF is actually a pretty good weapon... Looking forward to getting a second one and making one of them epic (since I am about to TR)