Renown Decay: Hard Coded Minimu Size.

[DocBenway]

It would seem that the smallest Modified Guild Size the game uses for decay math purposes is 10.

A lvl44 guild with a Modified Guild Size of 5 should lose 767 renown daily according to wiki formula:
(LevelMultiplier * AccountMultiplier) = 51.110400 * (5+10) = 766.656.

What is actually lost is 1020 renown. This plugs into the math as though the Modified Guild Size is 10:
(LevelMultiplier * AccountMultiplier) = 51.110400 * (10+10) = 1022.208

Today one of those 5 accounts became incative, so the Modified Guild Size dropped to 4, take a guess as to how much renown was lost:

Not 715.5456, but 1020.

I would like to know why this hard coded smallest size exists.

[Rumbaar]

Hmmm, I might have to test this on my 6 man guild and compare the numbers too. Maybe the wiki is wrong ... never knew where they go the numbers from.

[DocBenway]

Even if the wiki is wrong, a Modified Account Size of 4 should lose less renown than a Modified Account Size of 5, but they both lose the same amount, which happens to work out via wiki math to a Modified Account Size of 10.

[Narmolanya]

I have noticed something is askew with it as well but never thought about it being a hard coded minimum.

I few weeks ago there was another thread up where the OP was saying that inactive accounts were being added to his decay modifier. I looked into it on my own guild that consisted of 7 active accounts and 3 inactive accounts. According to the wiki we were losing renown as a level 53 guild with 10 accounts instead of 7.

I booted the three inactive and waited the two weeks for their recent departure to go away. I quickly noticed this made no difference in how much decay we had it was still being applied as if it was a guild of 10.

[DocBenway]

Just adding some quotes from the thread in the seldom visited In-Game Customer Service thread on renown wonkyness:

...
This is an example of specific information. In both cases, the numbers match up to a modified account size of 10, rather than the account numbers given. What this likely means is that the guild renown decay formula sets a minimum on the guild size (for decay purposes) of 10, regardless of the size of the guild. In other words, if your guild has less than 10 accounts (modified account size), it will still count as 10 accounts for renown decay purposes.

When I figured out the renown decay formula, my information went as low as 15 modified accounts and as high as 1007 modified accounts, but I never looked at guilds smaller than that, so it's likely that Turbine has had this minimum for quite some time. Just that now very small guilds are finally able to reach the levels to notice this, when before it's only been large/medium/small guilds that are high enough level to get decay.


Our guild leader actually sat down and ran some numbers he's been keeping track of and although it says we are a modified guild size of 9, it is giving us renown, and decay, at guild size 10 (according to the numbers off the wiki). Not sure why. We're still gaining, but at a lesser rate than we should given our guild size. We can't find a phantom 10th account either. We actually had a guildy log off and then on, which should have increased us in guild size, but it still showed as 9. We still have a little bit to go before he becomes inactive again - I am wondering if it will go down to possibly 8 or stay as 9?

Something is definitely wonky with the renown lately.


I'm the leader of my guild Knights of the Screaming Eagles, VANSHILAR we're not talking about renown gain but loss, here is some usefull info for you, this is how DDOwiki works it out for my guild.
Guild lvl 37, Member Count 5
Renown lost = Lvl/Multiplyer x Accounts/Multiplyer
Renown lost = (18.994875 x (5+10))
Renown lost 284.923125 ( note there may be some rounding up).
Now I know how many accounts there in the guild, me,my brother,my friend and his wife and my friends friend who I also know.
Since reaching lvl 37 eight days ago we have been losing 378 per day at 10pm GMT but we should only be losing 285, so were losing 33% more than the renown loss calculator, we only play between 10am and 9pm when we can. On the Monday DDO had trouble I did not get to log on untill 10.30 GMT, so I know that no one had been playing and we had lost 704 renown.
When we were at lvl 36 we were losing 348 per day which is 33% more than calculator, so this excess renown loss has been going on for some time.

[toastjeff]

Noticed the same thing with my modified guild size of 7. Decays as if we are 10.

[danotmano1998]

Hmmm.
Wonder if this is WAI, or a bug, or just plain laziness on their part?

At least with this many threads and reports about it, hopefully they can look at it and give us some sort of answer, even if it's just ... "Yeah, we're looking into it."

[anndurill]

Just a thought were all talking about small guilds under 10, but the renown loss counting as 10 even if you have 5 accounts, what about those guilds over that they must be losing out big time.

[macubrae]

My guild is three acounts, fluctuating up to six some times. I would much prefer a three account decay to a ten account decay. I recently had a three month period where work got real busy and I had little time to play. Making up for two or three accounts decay, when I came back would have been easier then ten.

[Parsley]

Ooh, NVM. I misread the formula. The formula is 10+modified size on the ddowiki.

[Kinerd]

Just a thought were all talking about small guilds under 10, but the renown loss counting as 10 even if you have 5 accounts, what about those guilds over that they must be losing out big time.I can verify that a 16 account guild is (still) decaying as 16 accounts.

[DocBenway]

Here's another example from one of the numerous, never formally addressed, threads about renown:


The Guild Renown loss calculator on DDOwiki must be wrong because im in a small guild just 5 accounts all playing in the UK, so no one plays to late into the night, any way we were at lvl 36 and our loss was 33% higher than it should be 348 as opposed to 263, on the day they had problems on the update we lost 704, just got to lvl 37 and our loss is still 33% higher. Put in a bug report, just wondering if any other guilds are having the same problem.

[Barrandill]

My guild leader is Anndurill, I am just a member in the Knights of the Screaming Eagles, I think that Anndurill has got our point of view across about guild renown loss very well, my post was just another point of view even if most of what I said she used in her post!.

[anndurill]

Barrandill posted our original moan about renown loss, I just carried the flag about posts being the leader of the guild, I don't think that from my point of view that there's anything to add, were losing 378 per day which is 33% more than we should, we've put in bug reports and I don't see what else we can do.

[anndurill]

Finished questing on 02-26-12 at 21:30 Gmt, loged back on at 22:30 and renown loss was 378, will not quest on 02-27-12 untill after the update to see what happens with renown loss.

[anndurill]

This is a quote from DDOwiki.
"Note: Inactive accounts do not hurt your guild renown production or decay. However recent departures do. Thus booting inactive accounts actually hurts your guilds overall renown production. As your modified account size will go up by one for 2 weeks after the last character from that account is removed from the guild. You'll also lose 25% of the renown that character gained while a member of the guild."

[anndurill]

Loged back on after update and lost 237 renown, however I think that is still not the amount we should be losing at this guild lvl and account #.
It should be 285
Will check back after 22:00 tonight to see if we lose anymore as this is the time we had been losing renown.

[anndurill]

OK loged on at 22:00 Gmt but MYDDO was down, its now 00:02 and we haven't lost any more renown, so it looks like renown loss is back to 15:00 Gmt.

[DocBenway]

Post update decay: No correction to the formula.

Still losing renown for 6 phantom accounts.

Why does this hard coded minimum modified guild size of 10 exist?

[DocBenway]

Another 2 weeks and continued complete silence on the workings of the renown mechanics, and specifically why there is a minimum modified account size of 10 for renown decay purposes.