THIS is why people hate "share plz" [Archive] - Dungeons & Dragons Online Forums

axel15810

02-19-2012, 06:51 PM

I agree completely, what i hate the most is when people ask you to share a quest even though they ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO PASS BY THE QUEST GIVER ON THE WAY TO QUEST ANYWAYS!!! That's just so ignorant. I don't mind it when its out of the way but that's a different story.

That's true for some people. Some will always ask for a share and not think about whether the questgiver is near the quest or not. However it's my experience that most of the time people that ask don't know where the quest is or where the quest giver is. If they are asking for a share then they are not aware that the giver is right near the entrance in the first place so it's silly to get angry at someone for that. Not everyone has memorized where all the quest and questgivers are.

Sharing just saves time for everyone. And if you know you're just going to be waiting for a party to gather anyway just do it. If you play with someone over the course of a few quests and they are still asking for a share every time then I think it's ok to say something about it.

Alrik_Fassbauer

02-19-2012, 06:52 PM

Is "share please" a sign of laziness of some people like in this screenshot ?

Malky

02-19-2012, 06:57 PM

Lol, good one ;)

Phemt81

02-19-2012, 06:59 PM

He didn't even write "pls" for the first three times!!!

Legendary epic lazyness ftw on this guy!!!:D

katz

02-19-2012, 07:03 PM

to be fair, i've been known to occasionally request a share when i know a quest has a million-and-one dialog screens to go thru. prime example of a quest that's RIGHT THERE, but annoying-as-h***... Tempest Spine. BUT... i don't just do "share plz". meh.

"hey guys. thanks for having me. OMW BRT. any chance i could grab a share so i don't have to click all those dialogs?" *pause* "thanks!" is how it usually goes.

and just yesterday i got all the way to HoX just to realize i forgot to grab the quest (how often has that happened to you? lol) and that was "ahh c***. can i grab a share? nub moment, forgot to pick it up >.> " and they LOLed and shared.

Habreno

02-19-2012, 07:09 PM

"hey guys. thanks for having me. OMW BRT. any chance i could grab a share so i don't have to click all those dialogs?" *pause* "thanks!" is how it usually goes.

Yup.

and just yesterday i got all the way to HoX just to realize i forgot to grab the quest (how often has that happened to you? lol) and that was "ahh c***. can i grab a share? nub moment, forgot to pick it up >.> " and they LOLed and shared.

I normally grab my quest log, go to Korthos Island q's, and share Cannith Crystal, THEN share Hound. After the obvious LOL.

Ungood

02-19-2012, 07:10 PM

To be fair. there is a world of difference between:

"Hey guys, I am feeling a bit lazy today, can someone share the quest and save me a bit of run around"

and

"shr plz"

katz

02-19-2012, 07:12 PM

I normally grab my quest log, go to Korthos Island q's, and share Cannith Crystal, THEN share Hound. After the obvious LOL.

oh you meanie! :D

Phemt81

02-19-2012, 07:12 PM

i don't just do "share plz". meh.

"hey guys. thanks for having me. OMW BRT. any chance i could grab a share so i don't have to click all those dialogs?" *pause* "thanks!" is how it usually goes.

I bet you created an alias for that, SLACKER!!! :p ;)

Vint

02-19-2012, 07:50 PM

Funny how everyone loves to get on the band wagon of being nice and sharing quest, but they dont dare post here and defend this "un-knowledgeable" person.

/grabbing popcorn waiting for them to.

WruntJunior

02-19-2012, 08:01 PM

Funny how everyone loves to get on the band wagon of being nice and sharing quest, but they dont dare post here and defend this "un-knowledgeable" person.

/grabbing popcorn waiting for them to.

Oh, I'll be nice and share for a quest where it'd be reasonable to not have it (explorer area quest that isn't a walkup, other type of quest where the person isn't by the quest entrance/isn't the quest entrance). This is different, though - this person is a moron. Of course, I might not be as nice as the people you're referencing.

Vint

02-19-2012, 08:07 PM

Oh, I'll be nice and share for a quest where it'd be reasonable to not have it (explorer area quest that isn't a walkup, other type of quest where the person isn't by the quest entrance/isn't the quest entrance). This is different, though - this person is a moron. Of course, I might not be as nice as the people you're referencing.

I agree. I have ran with you enough to know. We always have a good time and try to make it pleasent for everyone. My original post was to the people that are yelling about having patience with people. I want them to get off their soapbox and come defend this guy and tell the OP that he is wrong.

They cant do it.

MeliCat

02-19-2012, 08:10 PM

I've been playing with some new players lately and it really does help to share the quest to help orientate them around the harbour.

Also sharing mult dialog things like TS. And testing for raid timers.

But it can also lead to good discussions about flagging mechanics and what flagging even is. So the OP was dealing with a level 9 fighter that may well have not had the chance of having a new type of flagging need maybe having done TS if that. I guess I would have taken the opportunity to talk a little about HIPS and the two quests needed. They may not even realize there are questions to ask. They maybe super new, very casual or English not their first language. This posting on the forums maybe harsh?

Now the level 18 hitting my abbot practice runs with a share please and us reminding them that this is one of the ones you can't share... er that was a little surprising maybe

Hambo

02-19-2012, 08:34 PM

Is "share please" a sign of laziness of some people like in this screenshot ?

As far as I'm concerned, "Share Please" is downright polite and civil.

Omitting all the vowels (Shr Plz) is the very definition of laziness and illiteracy, and indicates someone who can only type with their thunbs :D

Phemt81

02-19-2012, 08:36 PM

I agree. I have ran with you enough to know. We always have a good time and try to make it pleasent for everyone. My original post was to the people that are yelling about having patience with people. I want them to get off their soapbox and come defend this guy and tell the OP that he is wrong.

They cant do it.

Yeah we know you want drama bud :D

Vint

02-19-2012, 08:44 PM

Yeah we know you want drama bud :D

aye +1

MRMechMan

02-19-2012, 08:51 PM

The harbor turns people into sharebots.

If the first words out of their mouth are "share please", there is a good chance they are bad.

If it is in anyway shortened or has Z's in it, the chance goes up.

If the quest giver is nearby, the chance goes up even more.

If the quest giver IS the quest, the chances are very high indeed.

And if the current quest is a chain that can't be shared it's nearly certain.

You might as well say "I am deadweight and will be carried through this quest, please"

If they say hi first or even "could I bum a share" it's fine. They aren't sharebots.

But when it's the very first words out of their mouth, typed "shr plzors" for deleras part4 xp farm, it's pretty obvious that they are just more dungeon scaling at best and a -10% coupled with a longer completion time at worst-along with a huge headache.

7-day_Trial_Monkey

02-19-2012, 09:05 PM

I agree completely, what i hate the most is when people ask you to share a quest even though they ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO PASS BY THE QUEST GIVER ON THE WAY TO QUEST ANYWAYS!!! That's just so ignorant. I don't mind it when its out of the way but that's a different story.

If by ignorant you mean 'a lack of knowledge' then yes I would agree. If by ignorant you mean rude then I would have to disagree.

Would not the reasonable assumption be that they don't know that they will be passing by the quest giver on the way to the entrance? Why jump to an insulting conclusion instead of the reasonable one?

tkneip1874

02-19-2012, 09:08 PM

my favorite is when i put up lfm for say gwylans stand, elite for streak, know quest, byoh and get the share plz from first person to join...

katz

02-19-2012, 09:23 PM

Auran82

02-19-2012, 09:37 PM

"Share plz" usually results in me sharing the most obscure quest I happen to have in my quest log. I like to challenge myself and see how many fellow party members don't have that particular quest already.

MeliCat

02-19-2012, 09:48 PM

ok... this guy had one person tell him "i can't share. i don't even have the quest." and another person try to share, and then said "shared. you don't meet the requirements".. and he asked for a share again... there's some reading comprehension fail going on there.

if it's a language barrier thing... i'm all for people from other countries playing, and i'm no more expecting them to learn my language than i am me to learn theirs, but they should at least learn a few key phrases. "I can't" and "Are you flagged" are good ones to start with. :rolleyes:

Yes I read it. I'd postulate that any very new player who has never come near this flagging mechanic is going to understand your response as anything more than the dismissive vet they've become used to.

Their greetings may be graceless. Yours doesn't have to be.

But whatever. It makes for easy forum entertainment.

NaturalHazard

02-19-2012, 10:01 PM

When I say share please its not the quest I want its you large scales, scrolls, seals, shards and raid loot. :D

~Quilny

02-19-2012, 10:06 PM

He didn't even write "pls" for the first three times!!!

Legendary epic lazyness ftw on this guy!!!:D

typing in please would take to much effort you will be lucky if you see Plz Laugh out loud :D People like to shorten up everything.My biggest pet peeve is ( y ) this means (why ) or it means (yes) might mean other stuff as well but i often feel like I need a decoder ring when I am reading.

HAL

02-19-2012, 10:35 PM

Vint

02-20-2012, 01:46 AM

LOL. Sorry but that's not even remotely similar to what people are talking about.

It is what I am talking about. Sure most groups have people that just type shr plz, but there are quiet a few where the pugger is just as bad as this. Go ahead and defend sharing and pretend that this stuff never happens, but I think you know the truth.

NaturalHazard

02-20-2012, 02:18 AM

I can understand in this case but I don't understand why some people get so offended when someone dares to ask share please in different circumstances like say for example they are the last person to join and it would save us all a little time to share it to him and save the minute or so it would take for him to run and find the quest giver then get into the quest. Some people froth at the mouth and go all anal over something so small and petty. Its like that person is asking them for a bj or something. Sometimes when its like someone asking for a chronoscope share to save them running accross the market I, or someone else will share that then some kortho's quests for laughs, most people find this funny but some people have no sense of humour and will fly into a rage over the smallest thing, I like it when this causes them to rage quit the party don't want to play with people like that DDO is a *gasp* game not triple bypass heart surgery.

Forzah

02-20-2012, 02:27 AM

Can you even enter subterrane at lvl 9? (or is there a different subterrane i don't know of?)

Lleren

02-20-2012, 02:33 AM

LOL. Sorry but that's not even remotely similar to what people are talking about.

That is all the essence of all the less then a complete sentence requests for a Share as the first words out of someones mouth.

That is actually a nicer version of how it looks.

Callavan

02-20-2012, 02:35 AM

Funny how everyone loves to get on the band wagon of being nice and sharing quest, but they dont dare post here and defend this "un-knowledgeable" person.

/grabbing popcorn waiting for them to.

Nothing to defend here. Somebody already took the nice guy approach. The quest was shared. The person proved to be an idiot, and got themselves kicked.

Doesn't mean you have to be a jerk to everyone who asks for a share.

Denegrator

02-20-2012, 02:46 AM

alvarego

02-20-2012, 02:58 AM

LOL. Sorry but that's not even remotely similar to what people are talking about.

Exactly, everyone talking about their hate for "shr plz" but the real problem here is that player is unable and/or unwilling to read ... the real problem with this player would come after the sharing is done, if he cannot understand something like this try to figure out what could be trying to teamwork in quest, way impossible.

I use to be patient but with people who doesn't even make the least effort to understand you better give up asap :mad:

Naera

02-20-2012, 03:29 AM

...
But it can also lead to good discussions about flagging mechanics and what flagging even is. So the OP was dealing with a level 9 fighter that may well have not had the chance of having a new type of flagging need maybe having done TS if that. I guess I would have taken the opportunity to talk a little about HIPS and the two quests needed. They may not even realize there are questions to ask. They maybe super new, very casual or English not their first language. This posting on the forums maybe harsh?

The raid is usually preceded with flagging runs, and the person hosting the event is more than willing to teach, providing also detailed info on how to get the raid quest and how to get to the quest itself.
here, the said fighter either just didnt listen at all, or indeed it was some language barrier

SirShen

02-20-2012, 04:04 AM

Daggertooth

02-20-2012, 04:13 AM

Funny how everyone loves to get on the band wagon of being nice and sharing quest, but they dont dare post here and defend this "un-knowledgeable" person.

/grabbing popcorn waiting for them to.

Was just about to say that as I was scrolling down the thread...

I mean its pretty clear that the guy was new to the whole thing and was clueless as to what the 'taxi' service even meant. He probably just completed both both flagging quests and didnt realize that the next step was for him to then find the entrance to the raid.

So my question is ... the OP can easily tell that the guy was clueless why did he keep insisting on ramming the 'taxi' thing down the guy's throat? It wasn't obvious that the guy didn't know what he was talking about? To be honest this is what I don't like about many of the 'experienced' players. Their definition of 'help' is alot like Katy Sagal tossing the salad when the cigarette she is puffing on falls out of her mouth and lands in it during the opening credits of Married With Children.

OP is like "TAXI!" "TAXI!" "TAXI!" and the guy is like 'what the **** are you talking about?'

Where are the people in this game who can nudge someone in the right direction without making them feel like a complete ass for god forbid not being a psychic and knowing where to go next? Granted, the guy could have researched the wiki or something but based on how difficult it is to actually find a group that is running most of the obscure quests in the game, cant people be a little nicer instead of stomping thier feet like a caveman and shouting "ME TAXI!" "ME TAXI" YOU NO KNOW??? ME TAXI!...."

Obviously the OP was helping many people at once so probably wasnt in the most generous mood and thats understandable but for the future if its obvious the person doesn't know the procedure why not just refer them to the wiki or explain that he is not actually 'flagged' for the raid because the next part of the 'adventure' is for him to explore the isles and find the entrance to the forge? Is that such a complex concept? Apparently for today's 'mmo' generation it is.

Alrik_Fassbauer

02-20-2012, 06:36 AM

but they should at least learn a few key phrases. "I can't" and "Are you flagged" are good ones to start with. :rolleyes:

THis implies the knowledfge of the term "to be flagged". ;)

The DDO community had developed a LOT of special terms I had severe difficulties to understand when I was new to the game. I still don't understand everything, but I'm glad that almost all are in the Wiki ...

Yesterday someone wanted to do a quest called "nash". Didn't understand it. Had to ask the player. Only then I understood the meaning.

Regarding this "sharing" : I have had my own parts with it. Being a newbie, doing a guild run with a guest pass. Of course I didn't know the Sharn Syndicate, since I didn't have it. Of course I was confused, but the guildies already knew me from another forum and they were so polite to tell me what I needed and waited for me to catch up, too, most of the time.

A few days ago, on my very first PUG, I *knew* that Archer Point was the second quest they wanted to do - but having just finished the Gladewatch Outpost with them just before, I was SO confused I couldn't remember the quest-giver of Archer Point anymore ! Imagine that ! ;)

So, I was writing into the chat window (don't have voice chat yet), "I'm sorry, but where are you now ?" - because I was confused. Then someone "shared" the quest for me. For which I'm thankful.

Apart from that all - to look at it from a little bit deeper level : Is it possible that "share please" can also be interpreted as a sign of laziness that a person doesn't want to go through the dialogs and just hop into the action right away ? If so, is this then a sign of perhaps a newer generation (?) of gamers who have begun role-playing games in the form of action games ? I mean - if one has "grown up within gaming", so to say, and this person's first game is an Action-RPG, could it be that the way an Action-RPG is being played could be transported to other role-playing games ? Meaning : Drop all dialogs and immediately jump into the action, slashing here, hacking there ? This is what I'm (currently) wondering about.

Yvonnel-1

02-20-2012, 06:40 AM

if it's a language barrier thing... i'm all for people from other countries playing, and i'm no more expecting them to learn my language than i am me to learn theirs, but they should at least learn a few key phrases. "I can't" and "Are you flagged" are good ones to start with. :rolleyes:

this implies ppl are willing to learn,

what again requires ppl to be able to read

and after that they also have to be willing to read (after/if acquiring the ability to do so)

not an easy task :P

katz

02-20-2012, 06:56 AM

Yes I read it. I'd postulate that any very new player who has never come near this flagging mechanic is going to understand your response as anything more than the dismissive vet they've become used to.

Their greetings may be graceless. Yours doesn't have to be.

But whatever. It makes for easy forum entertainment.

hah. yer funny. ANYone presented with a new question they weren't expecting ("are you flagged") should have the wherewithall to respond "what's flagged?" at which point it could be explained politely and part on good terms. personally, i don't care that much if someone joins and says 'shr plz'. i think its slightly rude they didn't at least say "hi" first, but i usually open my quest log and dutifully share the quest in question. if the quest fails, it fails. if we have a rough run, we have a rough run.

i am FAR from the "dismissive vet". i constantly stop in the harbor and the marketplace (even in the middle of my own quests at times) to answer questions on the /advice channel... sometimes guiding thru things step by step, sometimes encouraging and guiding to use other tools (i helped someone learn to use their map in house Cannith yesterday) i give cr** away, and i join those "need guide" LFMs if i have the time for it.

and honestly, that was the first time i've kicked someone for something so 'petty'. why? because i didn't think i'd actually be able to teach him anything. if he'd asked me something, i would have answered. i asked him questions, he didn't answer me. when faced with an unflagged person in the past, i prefer for them to drop group, not to have to kick them. i've given lists of quests that must be completed to flag, i've even explained how to drop group when someone didn't know how and was asking that i kick them because he thought he couldn't leave the group on his own.

LOL. Sorry but that's not even remotely similar to what people are talking about.

then what, pray tell, ARE people talking about, please?

Can you even enter subterrane at lvl 9? (or is there a different subterrane i don't know of?)

ya know, i'm not sure. but if someone hadn't been able to enter (like the other person, who thought the foothold was the sub, actually... turns out he didn't own the vale pack yet) i would have relocated somewhere else where they COULD enter and teleported them from there (which i did).

Sarisa

02-20-2012, 07:00 AM

Can you even enter subterrane at lvl 9? (or is there a different subterrane i don't know of?)

You cannot enter the Subterrane yourself until you are 14 or higher. You can, however, enter the Subterrane at any level as long as somebody in party is in already. It's a very effective way of getting a group of low level TR's up to bind up in the Portable Hole.

Ungood

02-20-2012, 07:05 AM

Failedlegend

02-20-2012, 07:19 AM

To be fair. there is a world of difference between:

"Hey guys, I am feeling a bit lazy today, can someone share the quest and save me a bit of run around"

and

"shr plz"

Actually the first one is what people for some dumb reason assume the person is saying when they say Share Please.

Moreso it's ussually

Ah sorry guys I forgot grab the quest can you share it instead of having me run all the way back (ie. Demon Queen 1)

or

I have no idea where the quest giver or quest is you COULD explain it to me or tell me to check the wiki but if you share the quest I get a handy dandy arrow that points they way.

If it's unsharable instead of being a ****** why don't you I dunno...tell them..be helpful for once

ReaperAlexEU

02-20-2012, 08:53 AM

It is what I am talking about. Sure most groups have people that just type shr plz, but there are quiet a few where the pugger is just as bad as this. Go ahead and defend sharing and pretend that this stuff never happens, but I think you know the truth.

the way i see it there are 2 types of player in this situation:

1: the player is an arse, after a few attempts to open up communication katz did the right thing in kicking them.

2: there is a language barrier in the way, with no way to communicate all katz could do was to kick.

obviously i wont defend player type 1, but as an english man who is typically dreadful at any language other than english (and even then some foreigners are better than me) i can't hold a grudge against any player who cant speak a word of english beyond "share".

its the equivalent of the international language of pointing which i employ when i'm interacting with people that cant speak english (i feel its better than the traditional english method of just shouting in english louder, or maybe speaking in english with a fake foreign accent). i'll point at the menu and say "that one", then i'll point at the hand full of strange coins in my hands and say "which ones do you need?", despite the words meaning nothing to them i've found its a very easy way to buy things and i'm relying on general decency for not getting ripped off.

in the same way someone who can't speak english can use the word "share" to get through the bulk of DDO. i bear them no ill wishes but it would be nice if upon seeing a mass of gibberish they at least tried to tell us what language they do speak, there is always a chance that someone can translate.

i don't like seeing "shr plz" as the first words out of a new party members mouth, i prefer someone to talk to. but after seeing my home server turned off i'd much rather have a large chunk of players like that than risk living on a ghost town of a server again. besides, i think we've done very well with the quality of players DDO has attracted since going FTP, far better than other games i've seen where local chat is nothing but an endless flood of obscenities mixed with the odd "noob" and "l2p". no, we've got lucky and if "shr plz" is the biggest irritation to suffer then i think its one i'd gladly choose over many alternatives.

so, how's that for a drama free defence of "share"? :p

edit: last minute addition, 3rd type, vets doing it for giggles because they know it irritates people.

Denegrator

02-20-2012, 09:30 AM

i don't like seeing "shr plz" as the first words out of a new party members mouth, i prefer someone to talk to. but after seeing my home server turned off i'd much rather have a large chunk of players like that than risk living on a ghost town of a server again. besides, i think we've done very well with the quality of players DDO has attracted since going FTP, far better than other games i've seen where local chat is nothing but an endless flood of obscenities mixed with the odd "noob" and "l2p". no, we've got lucky and if "shr plz" is the biggest irritation to suffer then i think its one i'd gladly choose over many alternatives.

Yes we are lucky in this regard to be perfectly honest, still doesn't take the irritation factor away though. ;)

so, how's that for a drama free defence of "share"? :p

Absolutely pathetic, was expecting more from you, so in the words of those in other games: GTFO + L2P Nub. :p :p (Joking, fairly drama free tbh man, but I still opt for boot prints on arses. :))

Vint

02-20-2012, 11:08 AM

the way i see it there are 2 types of player in this situation:

1: the player is an arse, after a few attempts to open up communication katz did the right thing in kicking them.

2: there is a language barrier in the way, with no way to communicate all katz could do was to kick.

obviously i wont defend player type 1, but as an english man who is typically dreadful at any language other than english (and even then some foreigners are better than me) i can't hold a grudge against any player who cant speak a word of english beyond "share".

its the equivalent of the international language of pointing which i employ when i'm interacting with people that cant speak english (i feel its better than the traditional english method of just shouting in english louder, or maybe speaking in english with a fake foreign accent). i'll point at the menu and say "that one", then i'll point at the hand full of strange coins in my hands and say "which ones do you need?", despite the words meaning nothing to them i've found its a very easy way to buy things and i'm relying on general decency for not getting ripped off.

in the same way someone who can't speak english can use the word "share" to get through the bulk of DDO. i bear them no ill wishes but it would be nice if upon seeing a mass of gibberish they at least tried to tell us what language they do speak, there is always a chance that someone can translate.

i don't like seeing "shr plz" as the first words out of a new party members mouth, i prefer someone to talk to. but after seeing my home server turned off i'd much rather have a large chunk of players like that than risk living on a ghost town of a server again. besides, i think we've done very well with the quality of players DDO has attracted since going FTP, far better than other games i've seen where local chat is nothing but an endless flood of obscenities mixed with the odd "noob" and "l2p". no, we've got lucky and if "shr plz" is the biggest irritation to suffer then i think its one i'd gladly choose over many alternatives.

so, how's that for a drama free defence of "share"? :p

I feel the same way about the language barrier. I have a few guildies that have rather good English skills; it is just sometimes hard to communicate.

But you say you won’t defend person #1 . What % of people do you think are lazy as in shr plz, and what % ask for share due to language barrier? Is it language barrier every time my LFM says
Farming Shadow Crypt
Farming Deleras 2 and 4
Farming eastern 2
Farming GH side quests
And so on?

I am all for being nice to people but it gets old real quick when almost every pug you start you get a shr plz request.

As for your assertion that the servers will be a ghost town, that is not my problem. When I do pug it is to sometimes quicker to have competent people with me. I do not put up LFM's in hopes that someone will come save the day. I can just as easily two box 95% of the game. I could care less if all the incompetent lazy share plz quit the game. It is not like I go out of my way to try to group with them.

To the last point, I could care less if people quit and it costs Turbine to close servers. My character selection screen does not have a character named Euphoria challenge, DDO Quest guide, or Wiki quest info. I am not paid to help anyone and could care less if the servers are shut down or I can’t run a Shroud again because everyone quit.

It is one thing for the language barrier, but neither you nor anyone else can convince me that what the OP experienced was an isolated incident. In some cases I will be the nice guy and share a quest that might be out of the way, but I refuse to play the guess game of lazy/language and coddle people.

Alrik_Fassbauer

02-20-2012, 11:28 AM

or maybe speaking in english with a fake foreign accent

I can speak English with faked foreign accent, too ! And I'm German ! ;)

I feel the same way about the language barrier. I have a few guildies that have rather good English skills; it is just sometimes hard to communicate.

One problem is, or can be, when someone is exited or/and confused. Because non-English speakers need to translate everything "on the fly" (think of "assemblies" created by the Java or the Net runtime), this can come into a ... studder ? stutter ? when there is time pressing on. Confusion furthermore interrupts this semi-automatic "translating process".

Another thing is, that the phrase of "share, please" and its variations has become a kind of symbol, a kind of keyword like in a programming language (whereas most programming languages use English-language words as symbols/keywords, which - in my eyes - gives English "native speakers" an advantage over anyone else in the world using this programming language. And programming language experts still stubbornly refrain from creating programming languages which actually use localized symbols/keywords). Or like a ... meme ? It could be that the original meaning gets lost, and what remains is ... an equivalent of a proverb. No-one knows anymore what it *originally* means - but *everyone* knows its figurative sense.

Daggertooth

02-20-2012, 11:47 AM

i've seen a few threads in the past week discussing this much maligned phrase. and as i was digging thru my screenshots today looking for a totally different image, i stumbled upon this gem i took a while back, and figured i'd share... why... EXACTLY... most people HATE the 'shr plz' crowd.

background info: i was on my wizzie offering taxi service to a well-known-on-Orien twice weekly PUG Titan run. i wasn't flagged myself, but nothing prevents me from sitting around casting greater teleport to help out for a little while. my LFM said something along the lines of "Taxi service for *name's* Titan raid. don't forget to repair sigil"

http://i.imgur.com/CeNFv.jpg

So when the guy said he was 'at the wild man leader where should he meet you' that wasn't an obvious cue that he didn't know what you were talking about?

You need to keep yelling "TAXI! TAXI! TAXI"? Why not just tell him that he is not flagged and that his next step is to find the forge? :o

Seems like its today's MMO generation. They are so enthralled with loot and buzzwords that often the actual point of the game is lost in translation. Just my impression if the OP wasn't so impressed with himself for offering the 'taxi service' he might have been a little more helpful by simply telling the guy that his next step was to find the twilight forge..

Vint

02-20-2012, 12:06 PM

One problem is, or can be, when someone is exited or/and confused. Because non-English speakers need to translate everything "on the fly" (think of "assemblies" created by the Java or the Net runtime), this can come into a ... studder ? stutter ? when there is time pressing on. Confusion furthermore interrupts this semi-automatic "translating process".

Another thing is, that the phrase of "share, please" and its variations has become a kind of symbol, a kind of keyword like in a programming language (whereas most programming languages use English-language words as symbols/keywords, which - in my eyes - gives English "native speakers" an advantage over anyone else in the world using this programming language. And programming language experts still stubbornly refrain from creating programming languages which actually use localized symbols/keywords). Or like a ... meme ? It could be that the original meaning gets lost, and what remains is ... an equivalent of a proverb. No-one knows anymore what it *originally* means - but *everyone* knows its figurative sense.

I could definately understand this. I should have added that all of my LFM's will have know the quest, zerg, be sufficient, etc,etc. When someone joins my LFM I assume that a very good majority understand that if the box says "The Maze of Madness", and they are able to read this they should be able to read what I wrote in the comment box. I agree that there are some that might not be able to read "The maze of madness", hence not understanding my comments, but I find it more that people are just lazy.

I understand that it is not popular to have an LFM like mine, but I am being up front with people. I dont have an "all welcome" LFM where people might get the idea that it is a laid back slow run.

Algreg

02-20-2012, 12:07 PM

Was just about to say that as I was scrolling down the thread...

I mean its pretty clear that the guy was new to the whole thing and was clueless as to what the 'taxi' service even meant. He probably just completed both both flagging quests and didnt realize that the next step was for him to then find the entrance to the raid.

So my question is ... the OP can easily tell that the guy was clueless why did he keep insisting on ramming the 'taxi' thing down the guy's throat? It wasn't obvious that the guy didn't know what he was talking about? To be honest this is what I don't like about many of the 'experienced' players. Their definition of 'help' is alot like Katy Sagal tossing the salad when the cigarette she is puffing on falls out of her mouth and lands in it during the opening credits of Married With Children.

OP is like "TAXI!" "TAXI!" "TAXI!" and the guy is like 'what the **** are you talking about?'

Where are the people in this game who can nudge someone in the right direction without making them feel like a complete ass for god forbid not being a psychic and knowing where to go next? Granted, the guy could have researched the wiki or something but based on how difficult it is to actually find a group that is running most of the obscure quests in the game, cant people be a little nicer instead of stomping thier feet like a caveman and shouting "ME TAXI!" "ME TAXI" YOU NO KNOW??? ME TAXI!...."

Obviously the OP was helping many people at once so probably wasnt in the most generous mood and thats understandable but for the future if its obvious the person doesn't know the procedure why not just refer them to the wiki or explain that he is not actually 'flagged' for the raid because the next part of the 'adventure' is for him to explore the isles and find the entrance to the forge? Is that such a complex concept? Apparently for today's 'mmo' generation it is.

I think I know this raid group and those people are nicest people on the whole server. That being said, did you actually read another screenshot than me? OP tried to explain, that dude didn´t bother the least what OP had to say.

katz

02-20-2012, 01:05 PM

Was just about to say that as I was scrolling down the thread...

wow. sorry i missed this post the last time i read thru this thread earlier. LOL. i'll address your points in order.

I mean its pretty clear that the guy was new to the whole thing and was clueless as to what the 'taxi' service even meant. He probably just completed both both flagging quests and didnt realize that the next step was for him to then find the entrance to the raid.

just completed both flagging quests? possible, but unlikely.

So my question is ... the OP can easily tell that the guy was clueless why did he keep insisting on ramming the 'taxi' thing down the guy's throat? It wasn't obvious that the guy didn't know what he was talking about? To be honest this is what I don't like about many of the 'experienced' players. Their definition of 'help' is alot like Katy Sagal tossing the salad when the cigarette she is puffing on falls out of her mouth and lands in it during the opening credits of Married With Children.

OP is like "TAXI!" "TAXI!" "TAXI!" and the guy is like 'what the **** are you talking about?'

i was talking to 3 different people in that exchange. one of the first lines i said was a canned copy-pasta for everyone who joined my group that day. i understand that from the brevity of that screenshot it's hard to tell, but my first "i'm taxi" (after nub joined the group) is directed towards clueless_nub_01, and my second "i'm taxi" is directed toward the other person in my group. i was explaining to the second person that i was in the sub, not the restless isles because i myself was not flagged yet (nub moment of my own, i forgot i could just greater teleport myself to the foothold, flagged or not).

so the responses that the person in question got to their "share" was 1. "I can't share, i don't even have the quest." and an attempted share from someone else.

if he had ACTUALLY SAID "*** are you talking about... i would have answered him!

also, i'm a girl

Where are the people in this game who can nudge someone in the right direction without making them feel like a complete ass for god forbid not being a psychic and knowing where to go next? Granted, the guy could have researched the wiki or something but based on how difficult it is to actually find a group that is running most of the obscure quests in the game, cant people be a little nicer instead of stomping thier feet like a caveman and shouting "ME TAXI!" "ME TAXI" YOU NO KNOW??? ME TAXI!...."

hyperbole much?

Obviously the OP was helping many people at once so probably wasnt in the most generous mood and thats understandable but for the future if its obvious the person doesn't know the procedure why not just refer them to the wiki or explain that he is not actually 'flagged' for the raid because the next part of the 'adventure' is for him to explore the isles and find the entrance to the forge? Is that such a complex concept? Apparently for today's 'mmo' generation it is.

so i was sitting around in the sub for a full hour because i wasn't in a generous mood. with absolutely no prospect of personal gain, too. ok then.
if the guy had given me one iota of a hint that he actually HEARD (read) what i said, i would have been more than happy to explain the flagging procedure at length and in great detail. i've done so before. i'll do it again in the future i'm sure. instead it was a broken record of "share. share. share." it was the please at the end that made me LOL actually, after being told 1. i could NOT share, and 2. he didn't qualify. but meh

herzkos

02-20-2012, 01:25 PM

lfm for von5/6 at level.
(no screenie, sorry :()

shr plz.
crickets.

shr plz.
uhhm, can't share it mate.

shr plz.
(about 4 people) you have to be flagged by running von1-4 to get in. We can't share it.

SHR PLZ!!!.

soandso has been dismissed from your group.

what I like the best is a character says shr plz right off the bat, then starts telling you how awesome
his character is. 5 minutes later: "Hey, what house is this in?"

HAL

02-20-2012, 03:05 PM

LOL. Sorry but that's not even remotely similar to what people are talking about.

then what, pray tell, ARE people talking about, please?

I think that just about everyone in this game can agree that a person like that is one of two things:

1. Not a Native English speaker / a child (not teenager) or
2. Not paying attention.

If the first, I understand. If the second, even I would be irritated. But most of the "Share Please" threads abound with people who are irritated by the very words "share please". Those threads are not about a context such as the one you are presenting, which is obviously irritating. Read the other threads and witness the many players who state that anyone who simply uses the words "share please" is offensive to them. This is what people like me argue against: the words "share please" in and of themselves are not inherently offensive.

katz

02-20-2012, 03:26 PM

heh. people are irritated by the very words "share plz" because they've run into far too many people like i encountered.

so my point is still valid.

Lleren

02-20-2012, 03:48 PM

I think that just about everyone in this game can agree that a person like that is one of two things:

1. Not a Native English speaker / a child (not teenager) or
2. Not paying attention.

If the first, I understand. If the second, even I would be irritated. But most of the "Share Please" threads abound with people who are irritated by the very words "share please". Those threads are not about a context such as the one you are presenting, which is obviously irritating. Read the other threads and witness the many players who state that anyone who simply uses the words "share please" is offensive to them. This is what people like me argue against: the words "share please" in and of themselves are not inherently offensive.

No

That is a classic example of the Share Please meme. All less then a sentence requests are equal to this screenshot.

Side effect of overexposure.

HAL

02-20-2012, 06:14 PM

No

That is a classic example of the Share Please meme. All less then a sentence requests are equal to this screenshot.

Side effect of overexposure.

And again, it is too bad that there are players that lump everyone that they don't even know into one pot like that. I certainly take note when people are idiots, but I don't compare other people to them based solely on two words. :rolleyes:

NaturalHazard

02-20-2012, 06:15 PM

HAL

02-20-2012, 06:19 PM

Was just about to say that as I was scrolling down the thread...

I mean its pretty clear that the guy was new to the whole thing and was clueless as to what the 'taxi' service even meant. He probably just completed both both flagging quests and didnt realize that the next step was for him to then find the entrance to the raid.

So my question is ... the OP can easily tell that the guy was clueless why did he keep insisting on ramming the 'taxi' thing down the guy's throat? It wasn't obvious that the guy didn't know what he was talking about? To be honest this is what I don't like about many of the 'experienced' players. Their definition of 'help' is alot like Katy Sagal tossing the salad when the cigarette she is puffing on falls out of her mouth and lands in it during the opening credits of Married With Children.

OP is like "TAXI!" "TAXI!" "TAXI!" and the guy is like 'what the **** are you talking about?'

Where are the people in this game who can nudge someone in the right direction without making them feel like a complete ass for god forbid not being a psychic and knowing where to go next? Granted, the guy could have researched the wiki or something but based on how difficult it is to actually find a group that is running most of the obscure quests in the game, cant people be a little nicer instead of stomping thier feet like a caveman and shouting "ME TAXI!" "ME TAXI" YOU NO KNOW??? ME TAXI!...."

Obviously the OP was helping many people at once so probably wasnt in the most generous mood and thats understandable but for the future if its obvious the person doesn't know the procedure why not just refer them to the wiki or explain that he is not actually 'flagged' for the raid because the next part of the 'adventure' is for him to explore the isles and find the entrance to the forge? Is that such a complex concept? Apparently for today's 'mmo' generation it is.

This ^

So many experienced players don't seem to realize that this game that they like so much that they have played every bit of it umpteem times and memorized will cease to exist without new blood. If you treat that new blood like **** and drive them away, this game will cease to exist and they won't be able to play it at all, nevermind in the rigidly-dictated way that they demand now...

ReaperAlexEU

02-20-2012, 06:20 PM

I feel the same way about the language barrier. I have a few guildies that have rather good English skills; it is just sometimes hard to communicate.

But you say you won’t defend person #1 . What % of people do you think are lazy as in shr plz, and what % ask for share due to language barrier? Is it language barrier every time my LFM says
Farming Shadow Crypt
Farming Deleras 2 and 4
Farming eastern 2
Farming GH side quests
And so on?

I am all for being nice to people but it gets old real quick when almost every pug you start you get a shr plz request.

As for your assertion that the servers will be a ghost town, that is not my problem. When I do pug it is to sometimes quicker to have competent people with me. I do not put up LFM's in hopes that someone will come save the day. I can just as easily two box 95% of the game. I could care less if all the incompetent lazy share plz quit the game. It is not like I go out of my way to try to group with them.

To the last point, I could care less if people quit and it costs Turbine to close servers. My character selection screen does not have a character named Euphoria challenge, DDO Quest guide, or Wiki quest info. I am not paid to help anyone and could care less if the servers are shut down or I can’t run a Shroud again because everyone quit.

It is one thing for the language barrier, but neither you nor anyone else can convince me that what the OP experienced was an isolated incident. In some cases I will be the nice guy and share a quest that might be out of the way, but I refuse to play the guess game of lazy/language and coddle people.

i'm not trying to say you should show the patience of a saint, i'm well aware many people log onto DDO after a hard days work and just want to unwind in their own way. while it may sound horrible i'm in an adults only guild because we all work hard and when we log on for the night we don't want to have to deal with kids. we've tried it before and bless em but they arnt half hard work. nothing personal against our younger players but its not something i want to deal with when i'm unwinding. bah humbug and all that.

having said that i do often enjoy playing the tutor, i'll often spend hours tending to harbour /advice and have been known to let a newbie lead a quest they have never seen before to ensure they experience it properly for the first time.

but you challenged people to put up a defence for the "shr plz" phenomenon and there are some legitimate reasons why a player might say that while still being a good player. another good reason is a vet doing it for giggles, or asking if the high level quest is in the harbour (have a guild who loves that one, so now when he's not sure i tell him its in the harbour)

so by all means play the game your way, having fun in a party is important and we're not all going to get along together. i'm personally happy to take the "shr plz" problem with the change in player base FTP has given us as i really didnt appreciate semi-loosing years worth of character development to a dying game. sure i have them all back again, but they are stuck on a server thats not my home, and as a light RP guild we have done well with out airship and new characters so moving server to play our old characters is not really an option.

its good that your not as attached to your characters as i am, probably a sign of a far healthier mind ;)

any way, i'm not here to convince you to change your mind, just to point out some sensible reasons why a player might not be a colossal pain in the butt just because they said "share please". you've acknowledged those so thats your challenge met. now if you want to further challenge us to try changing your mind on it then thats another thing entirely and i'm thinking it might be an exercise in futility :)

so, fight fun, however you choose to do so

ReaperAlexEU

02-20-2012, 06:26 PM

This ^

So many experienced players don't seem to realize that this game that they like so much that they have played every bit of it umpteem times and memorized will cease to exist without new blood. If you treat that new blood like **** and drive them away, this game will cease to exist and they won't be able to play it at all, nevermind in the rigidly-dictated way that they demand now...

but there is a bit difference between a newbie asking questions and a player you cant communicate with. the OP's subject showed no signs of attempting to communicate, the subject was also not flagged and with no way to explain what needed to be done to flag there wasnt much else to do but kick. as you can see the OP was already dealing with 2 other newbies who were both in need of a guiding hand but most importantly were both communicating.

so the OP was not treating the new blood like #beep#, she was helping as best as she was able for a quest she wasnt even going to participate in. its a little unfair to accuse her of being elitist and an unfriendly vet when she has gone to all that trouble to help others, newbies and vets alike.

i'm not saying that there isnt a problem in the game with elitist vets being unhelpful and unfriendly, but this is not such a case.

ReaperAlexEU

02-20-2012, 06:30 PM

Yes we are lucky in this regard to be perfectly honest, still doesn't take the irritation factor away though. ;)

Absolutely pathetic, was expecting more from you, so in the words of those in other games: GTFO + L2P Nub. :p :p (Joking, fairly drama free tbh man, but I still opt for boot prints on arses. :))

ahhh, go and boil your bottom you son of a silly person. your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries! :p

HAL

02-20-2012, 06:36 PM

but there is a bit difference between a newbie asking questions and a player you cant communicate with. the OP's subject showed no signs of attempting to communicate, the subject was also not flagged and with no way to explain what needed to be done to flag there wasnt much else to do but kick. as you can see the OP was already dealing with 2 other newbies who were both in need of a guiding hand but most importantly were both communicating.

so the OP was not treating the new blood like #beep#, she was helping as best as she was able for a quest she wasnt even going to participate in. its a little unfair to accuse her of being elitist and an unfriendly vet when she has gone to all that trouble to help others, newbies and vets alike.

i'm not saying that there isnt a problem in the game with elitist vets being unhelpful and unfriendly, but this is not such a case.

Repeating that you're a taxi when he obviously doesn't understand isn't helpful. And I don't understand about how many people the OP had to deal with. Was there a timer I didn't read about? If the Leader said "Ok, we're starting without anyone not here", the "taxi" would then have plenty of time to chat with the confused person. And why would there be no way to explain what was needed to flag?

But if you read my other posts, my objection is to the OP's entire premise that the reason people hate the words "share please" is because occasionally they have to deal with someone like this, so they condemn everyone who asks for a share.

katz

02-20-2012, 07:10 PM

lol. am i gonna have to start screencapping when i'm helpful and nice, just to prove that i'm not a heartless elitist veteran b**ch or something?

jeeze

Ungood

02-20-2012, 07:11 PM

Side effect of overexposure.

I would have to say this is what it really boils down to.

Not so much a hate of the phrase, but too many jaded players realizing that "Share Please" or it's variants is a warning sign that is going to go bad.

Particularly under specific conditions, IE: Raids that require flagging or can't be shared, walk-ups (Giant Hold, Vale), and when you need to go through the quest giver to get to the quest (Kobold Assault for example), or when you said slayers and rares and they asked for a share......

Now to be fair, I can't tell you the number of times I have asked for a share for Reavers Fate after I face planted into the door, simply because I was too lazy to run over to the quest giver. So sharing a quest is not the issue for most players, it's the conditions by which the request is given and how it is delivered.

MeliCat

02-20-2012, 07:34 PM

lol. am i gonna have to start screencapping when i'm helpful and nice, just to prove that i'm not a heartless elitist veteran b**ch or something?

jeeze

No. But take this as a good example where textural humor may not come off correctly. I've done it. Your pariah status is a mere glitch that will soon be forgotten in light of your overall actions. Just ignore it and move on.

/wry smile

Ungood

02-20-2012, 08:52 PM

No. But take this as a good example where textural humor may not come off correctly. I've done it. Your pariah status is a mere glitch that will soon be forgotten in light of your overall actions. Just ignore it and move on.

/wry smile

Some People like to fuss. It's a quick matter to see who is here to add something earnest to the discussions and who is here to offer nothing but strife.

HAL

02-20-2012, 10:06 PM

lol. am i gonna have to start screencapping when i'm helpful and nice, just to prove that i'm not a heartless elitist veteran b**ch or something?

jeeze

I think your phrase is a little over the top and doesn't accurately describe anyone's reaction to you. All we're commenting on is this one screen shot in your OP, not whatever you do outside that. Is being a taxi helpful, of course. Were you helpful to the subject of your jabs? Not really. He was obviously confused about something. Whether that was due to language, age, mental acuity or some substance, we have no way of knowing. It seems clear to me that he wasn't being purposefully lazy or obnoxious. I like to keep in mind that a lot of communication problems come from language or age discrepancies. It keeps me from putting down people who can't help it and making myself feel bad.

Ungood

02-20-2012, 10:59 PM

He was obviously confused about something. Whether that was due to language, age, mental acuity or some substance, we have no way of knowing. It seems clear to me that he wasn't being purposefully lazy or obnoxious.

It was not clear at all, in fact, all he said was Share, even after he was told by the Leader they could not share the quest, and even after a failed share, all he said was Share.

So yah. That was on purpose. because they sure didn't do it on accident.

Lleren

02-21-2012, 02:47 AM

Has anyone ever used share please as a joke? I have, and it also provides another service it helps you find those people who seem to have a constant pineapple or something shoved up their neither regions so you know who to squelch for the duration of the quest/raid, whatever.

Pushing the buttons of folk ceased to be fun to me, well... before the internet existed. I'm old and cranky. "Now get off my lawn ya whippersnapper!"

And again, it is too bad that there are players that lump everyone that they don't even know into one pot like that. I certainly take note when people are idiots, but I don't compare other people to them based solely on two words. :rolleyes:

I'd like to point out, that I'm not the one calling folks idiots. That appears to be you. I simply choose not to play with them, that day.

My squeltch list is currently 0 peoples, same as my do not group list. Folks can get on, but it gets cleared every month or so.

Maugrim101

02-21-2012, 03:19 AM

I'm not surprised this guy was kicked at all. If after being told a few times that the quest can't be shared and he still come back with "Share", how is the party leader going to have any hope of passing out any in-quest instructions. I've only done forge a few times, but I seem to remember a part where you need some kind of stone to run through a tunnel type thing or you're killed. Then there's the green room thing with all the D Doors etc and plenty more which I don't remember at the moment. If the guy can't handle the simplest instruction about getting to the quest (Doesn't really matter why), then it's going to be a nightmare in the quest itself.

As for the whole "Share please" thing, for me it's like some others have pointed out already. Sometimes it doesn't bother me and other times (Generally when the quest can't be shared) the alarm bells start to ring. If the LFM is blank or doesn't look elitist in anyway, I don't really see a problem with it. Those LFMs are taking all comers and that includes people who have no clue where the quest is and might need a share to get the arrow point them there. If it's a LFM that is Elitist "BYOH, TR/Vets, know the quest or something similar" then not knowing where it is and applying is a bit silly.

ReaperAlexEU

02-21-2012, 07:14 AM

Repeating that you're a taxi when he obviously doesn't understand isn't helpful. And I don't understand about how many people the OP had to deal with. Was there a timer I didn't read about? If the Leader said "Ok, we're starting without anyone not here", the "taxi" would then have plenty of time to chat with the confused person. And why would there be no way to explain what was needed to flag?

But if you read my other posts, my objection is to the OP's entire premise that the reason people hate the words "share please" is because occasionally they have to deal with someone like this, so they condemn everyone who asks for a share.

it seems we've comprehended the screenshot in 2 very different ways. i see 1-2 newbies getting help and the subject blindly spamming "share" without responding to any other communications.

let me re-type the screenshot to make it clearer which line is from the other newbies, which is from the subject and which is from katz, i'll also add my comprehension of the chat in italics.

katz: [raid leader] is runnin the raid. join him. i'm just taxi
i assume this is to another newbie who needs a hand on what to do after the taxi ride
random newbie has left party
Subject would like to join your party
you accept subject's request to join your party
subject has joined your party
katz: i'm in the sub. repair your sigil and head on down
i assume this is to Subject who has just joined, her canned welcome message to all
random newbie: ok
subject: share
standard request for a share, nothing abnormal here
katz: i dont have it. i'm not even flagged. i'm just taxi
explanation to Subject on why katz cant share
katz: are you flagged?
attempt to open a dialogue with Subject
subject: share
ignores attempt to open up communication, starting to look like brainless spam or massive language barrier issue
random newbie: i went down, ddnt see ya
random newbie: shared
random newbie is flagged and tried to share quest with Subject
random newbie: (Standard): Subject did not meet one of the requirements for this quest.
random newbie feeds back the result of the attempted share to Subject
katz: i'm not in the restless isles. at all.
said to random newbie who had dived into the tunnels under the restless isles due to not knowing what the sub was
subject: share
subject: please
nice to see the please, but completely wasted after ignoring one explanation on why a share wasnt possible, an attempt to open up communications and an actual share attempt followed by a copy+paste of the failure for feedback. its at this point i assume its a massive language barrier as opposed to a brainless spam, but its still impossible to work with as the subject has not even asked a question in their own language
random newbie: did that
random newbie tells Subject they have already tried to share
you dismiss Subject from the party
situation is seen as futile and player is kicked as they completely failed to communicate at all

so, as far as i've read into this katz was helping newbies with questions and problems, she did try to talk to the subject about flagging mechanics but all communication with the subject was completely ignored. i've dealt with language barriers before, but never one quite like this. normally after a few attempts they will say something in their language and if i'm very lucky another party member will dive in and translate. the subject was clearly either not bothering to, or completely unable to read any of the responses they were getting, so the communication was one way and that counts as a complete communication failure. its not for want of trying on katz's part and the other newbie in party.

so, i responded to your post as you seemd to be unfairly accusing katz of not attempting to help in any way. yet i saw katz making an attempt and another newbie making an attempt too.

as for painting all players that say "share" with the same brush, i wont argue against you with that as i normally give the benefit of the doubt. but in this one case it does seem to be quite impossible to help the subject, so you either leave them in party spamming "share" until they get fed up and drop or you kick them. without any way to talk to them there isnt much else you can do

as for the OP this is indeed a good example of why sp many players don't like the whole "shr plz" thing. i can't argue with that, but i do choose to let "shr plz" people into my parties and it takes a very special kind of player for me to reach for the kick button. but then i do love to pug, good and bad and i dont expect others to be as accommodating as i am.

i hope this post makes you see the screenshot in a different light, to me its a vet being helpful and having one out of many they just couldnt help. to you its a vet being obnoxious, i hope that much i've been able to change. as for your other point on not tarring players with the same brush, i'm on your side with that one as i've already posted in this thread.

katz

02-21-2012, 02:29 PM

it seems we've comprehended the screenshot in 2 very different ways. i see 1-2 newbies getting help and the subject blindly spamming "share" without responding to any other communications.

let me re-type the screenshot to make it clearer which line is from the other newbies, which is from the subject and which is from katz, i'll also add my comprehension of the chat in italics.

so, as far as i've read into this katz was helping newbies with questions and problems, she did try to talk to the subject about flagging mechanics but all communication with the subject was completely ignored. i've dealt with language barriers before, but never one quite like this. normally after a few attempts they will say something in their language and if i'm very lucky another party member will dive in and translate. the subject was clearly either not bothering to, or completely unable to read any of the responses they were getting, so the communication was one way and that counts as a complete communication failure. its not for want of trying on katz's part and the other newbie in party.

so, i responded to your post as you seemd to be unfairly accusing katz of not attempting to help in any way. yet i saw katz making an attempt and another newbie making an attempt too.

as for painting all players that say "share" with the same brush, i wont argue against you with that as i normally give the benefit of the doubt. but in this one case it does seem to be quite impossible to help the subject, so you either leave them in party spamming "share" until they get fed up and drop or you kick them. without any way to talk to them there isnt much else you can do

as for the OP this is indeed a good example of why sp many players don't like the whole "shr plz" thing. i can't argue with that, but i do choose to let "shr plz" people into my parties and it takes a very special kind of player for me to reach for the kick button. but then i do love to pug, good and bad and i dont expect others to be as accommodating as i am.

i hope this post makes you see the screenshot in a different light, to me its a vet being helpful and having one out of many they just couldnt help. to you its a vet being obnoxious, i hope that much i've been able to change. as for your other point on not tarring players with the same brush, i'm on your side with that one as i've already posted in this thread.

yes, exactly. thank you! this is what happened, and what i was trying to portray.

But if you read my other posts, my objection is to the OP's entire premise that the reason people hate the words "share please" is because occasionally they have to deal with someone like this, so they condemn everyone who asks for a share.

yeah, except that IS exactly my point. people are just that petty. after all, whole guilds get blacklisted because one person fouled up and p***ed someone off. deal with one or two clueless nubs like what happened in my screenshot, and it sours someone to the whole thing. it represents someone who doesn't know/doesn't care/doesn't listen/can't communicate. it's NOT the words themselves that are objectionable... it's what they represent

but, as i've said before... i could care less if someone says 'share plz' when they join my group. it's slightly rude, but in-and-of itself not kick-worthy.

Alrik_Fassbauer

02-21-2012, 02:43 PM

What does the term "taxi" mean, after all ?

And no, this is is a serious question ... I honestly don't know its meaning from within the DDO context ...

ReaperAlexEU

02-21-2012, 02:49 PM

What does the term "taxi" mean, after all ?

And no, this is is a serious question ... I honestly don't know its meaning from within the DDO context ...

hehe, and its a good question too.

in a dungeon a high level caster can use the greater teleport spell, this will also teleport all party members in range. you often see it after a quest to quickly take everyone back to the quest giver for the reward. its also handy for the titan raid to bypass the twisting tunnels and fights which you cant do with a full raid party to get to the raid entrance. in this situation you need a raid dungeon to form in for the spell, the subterrainian is perfect for this

the word taxi is used because the caster is giving everyone a lift. it could have just as easily been the word bus instead, or even train. however taxi is the one that caught on and spread into common DDO slang.

katz

02-21-2012, 02:50 PM

the Titan Awakes (http://ddowiki.com/page/The_Titan_Awakes) is an obnoxious-to-get-to raid, but greater teleport has TWO (not one, but two) locations in the restless isles which makes it much easier to get everyone to the raid... one to the foothold (which is where the quest giver is), and the other to the twilight forge (the entrance to the raid itself). the "taxi" is someone who waits in a convenient location and casts greater teleport on people so they can get to the raid entrance faster and more easily

Alrik_Fassbauer

02-21-2012, 02:52 PM

Ah, thank you very much ! :)

Sarisa

02-21-2012, 03:00 PM

What does the term "taxi" mean, after all ?

And no, this is is a serious question ... I honestly don't know its meaning from within the DDO context ...

In addition to what katz said, Titan is a raid, but in order to walk there, you cannot be in a raid group. The Restless Isles explorer area is a 6-person party instance only. It's also rather frustrating to get to, and usually involves a fair bit of fighting. The Restless Isles does not have a working map, so it can be difficult to know where you are going.

For doing the raid, like she said, someone will usually be in a convenient raid instance location like the Subterrane or Tempest Spine or Chrono (usually the Sub these days, as it's easiest to get to, close to the Foothold, and almost everyone has the Vale).

People grab their Sigil of Dal Quor out of the bank, head into the foothold, retake the raid, then repair their sigil. Then they'll enter the taxi location and get Greater Teleported to the Twilight Forge.

Cauthey

02-21-2012, 03:00 PM

I shared Partycrashers (mundane) just last night. I wasn't even ugly about it. I feel it wasn't my place to spout off, really, as I was not the party leader.

Had I been the party leader, it would have been:

"The quest giver is right out in front of the Phiarlan Illusionarium - DIRECTLY in front of the quest. But, regardless, here you go. *share*"

OP, based on your screenshot, you exhibited a CONSIDERABLE amount of patience. I owe you a +1 (gave my last out from another very sensible remark in this thread made by someone you know well). :D

HAL

02-21-2012, 03:03 PM

yeah, except that IS exactly my point. people are just that petty. after all, whole guilds get blacklisted because one person fouled up and p***ed someone off. deal with one or two clueless nubs like what happened in my screenshot, and it sours someone to the whole thing. it represents someone who doesn't know/doesn't care/doesn't listen/can't communicate. it's NOT the words themselves that are objectionable... it's what they represent

but, as i've said before... i could care less if someone says 'share plz' when they join my group. it's slightly rude, but in-and-of itself not kick-worthy.

First, here is my PM reply to Reaper:

I'm taking this private because I wanted to respond to your thoughtfully-worded message but I didn't want to drag the thread out.

My points are these:

1. The only information katz gave the "subject" was that s/he was a taxi. S/he didn't offer anything helpful about the flagging process - s/he kicked him.

2. Yes, katz asked a question. And since the subject was not flagged and didn't seem to understand the explanation about being a taxi, it is likely to me that he would not understand the question about being flagged either.

3. Who knows where the subject was and what he was fighting so I don't fault him for not responding or typing one word at a time.

Since it is obvious that katz wasn't doing anything else, s/he could have simply explained the flagging process without a response from the subject. That would have been far more helpful than the kick.

I have friends who speak English as a second language (poorly). I have been in situations where I couldn't type because I was fighting. I know that young children and mentally-challenged people play this game. For all these reasons I don't see the subject as being at fault at all. I choose to give people the benefit of the doubt unless they are obviously being rude.

Second, if you believe that people who "blacklist" an entire group are being petty, I don't understand why you made this post where you seem to agree with them.

MeliCat

02-21-2012, 03:08 PM

Failedlegend

02-21-2012, 03:11 PM

"The quest giver is right out in front of the Phiarlan Illusionarium - DIRECTLY in front of the quest. But, regardless, here you go. *share*"

If I was the party leader and you said that to someone who joined the group I'd kick you out...he obviously didn't know where the quest giver was and sharing the quest would give him a nice arrow to the quest entrance...so after pressing share I would POLITELY tell him whereabouts the quest giver is so he knows for next time and I wouldn't have a self-important jackhole in my group anymore.

Now to clarify..if somebody says Share Plz and the quest is unsharable for w/e reason and this is explained to him/her...thats a different story.

Cauthey

02-21-2012, 03:19 PM

If I was the party leader and you said that to someone who joined the group I'd kick you out...he obviously didn't know where the quest giver was and sharing the quest would give him a nice arrow to the quest entrance...so after pressing share I would POLITELY tell him whereabouts the quest giver is so he knows for next time and I wouldn't have a self-important jackhole in my group anymore.

Now to clarify..if somebody says Share Plz and the quest is unsharable for w/e reason and this is explained to him/her...thats a different story.

That's why I stated this:

Had I been the party leader, it would have been:

I am MOST demure when I am not leading the party! And, I am always friendly! :D My giving of information about where the quest giver is would be done over voice, and stated in a non-aggressive, matter-of-fact tone with no judgements.

Further, if such voice hints did not evoke response in either voice or chat, I would type in chat and ask if all in the party are able to hear voice chat. I do try to be accommodating!

katz

02-21-2012, 03:32 PM

If I was the party leader and you said that to someone who joined the group I'd kick you out...he obviously didn't know where the quest giver was and sharing the quest would give him a nice arrow to the quest entrance...so after pressing share I would POLITELY tell him whereabouts the quest giver is so he knows for next time and I wouldn't have a self-important jackhole in my group anymore.

LOL. if there's anything Cauthey isn't, it's a "self-important jackhole". he's very patient and friendly. also notice he did NOT say that. but then again i seem to have a few people painting me with the "elitist jerk" brush in this thread because i didn't bend over backwards to figure out why someone wasn't communicating BACK to me when i was attempting to communicate with them. NO. i wasn't in a rush. YES i could have launched into a detailed explanation of the flagging procedures for the Titan raid. HOWEVER, the lack of understanding of a simple statement (I can't share.) and a simple question (Are you flagged?) said to me that trying to explain would be a lost cause due to some unknown barrier. it said to me "if i explain this whole raid to this person, he will answer me with one word... "share."

if he had responded with "what?" or "flag?" or "dont understand." or ANYTHING other than another "share"... i would have gladly told him all about it, wished him well, and told him i hoped to see him for next week's titan run after he was done with the flagging.

ReaperAlexEU

02-21-2012, 03:36 PM

First, here is my PM reply to Reaper:

Second, if you believe that people who "blacklist" an entire group are being petty, I don't understand why you made this post where you seem to agree with them.

i guess it could be akin to pointing out a nasty wasp sting and saying "and that folks is why some people dont like wasps". doesnt mean you dont like wasps, just that you can see why some people dont like wasps.

p.s. thanks for the PM, still havent finished my reply so brace your self for a wall of text :)

hehe, ok, its not that bad, i've had food and other bits to sort out, but i have read it and i am enjoying the discussion

ahpook

02-21-2012, 03:38 PM

Actually the first one is what people for some dumb reason assume the person is saying when they say Share Please.

Moreso it's ussually

Ah sorry guys I forgot grab the quest can you share it instead of having me run all the way back (ie. Demon Queen 1)

or

I have no idea where the quest giver or quest is you COULD explain it to me or tell me to check the wiki but if you share the quest I get a handy dandy arrow that points they way.

You have interpreted two valid interpretations of "share please". However, there are many many more ways that someone can interpret those words. How they will be interpreted is entirely up to the person on the other end. If you chose to shorten your communication to "share please" and allow the person on the other end interpret it as they will, you have begun the communication by showing a disinterest in communicating.

If the person on the other end has noticed a correlation between those words and people who are difficult to play with, they have every right to hear "share please" as "I am lazy and will be a burden". The fact of the matter is that many lazy burdensome people use that phrase. If you do not wish to be blindly lumped in with those people by accident, it only takes a few more words (as many have indicated in this thread) to differentiate yourself from those people. There have been more than enough threads on this subject that one should be aware of the stigma those words (and especially shortened forms of that phrase) hold.

If it only takes 5 more words to differentiate oneself from the lazy burdensome people then one must wonder why one would be too lazy to type them.

And again, it is too bad that there are players that lump everyone that they don't even know into one pot like that. I certainly take note when people are idiots, but I don't compare other people to them based solely on two words. :rolleyes:
But the OP didn't lump the person into that camp and tried to help. But you lumped the OP into the "share please" haters. You may not be as generous with your interpretations of other motives as you think.

ReaperAlexEU

02-21-2012, 03:39 PM

LOL. if there's anything Cauthey isn't, it's a "self-important jackhole". he's very patient and friendly. also notice he did NOT say that. but then again i seem to have a few people painting me with the "elitist jerk" brush in this thread because i didn't bend over backwards to figure out why someone wasn't communicating BACK to me when i was attempting to communicate with them. NO. i wasn't in a rush. YES i could have launched into a detailed explanation of the flagging procedures for the Titan raid. HOWEVER, the lack of understanding of a simple statement (I can't share.) and a simple question (Are you flagged?) said to me that trying to explain would be a lost cause due to some unknown barrier. it said to me "if i explain this whole raid to this person, he will answer me with one word... "share."

if he had responded with "what?" or "flag?" or "dont understand." or ANYTHING other than another "share"... i would have gladly told him all about it, wished him well, and told him i hoped to see him for next week's titan run after he was done with the flagging.

been thinking about what else you could have done. my assumption is the player didnt speak a word of english. so my theory is if you had addressed them directly by their name it might have prompted some sort of "i cant speak english" response, which at least would have cleared up the confusion as to why they were just spamming "share" over and might have even prompted another newbie to pipe up with a translation (had that before). its hind sight but might be handy for the future.

katz

02-21-2012, 03:40 PM

i guess it could be akin to pointing out a nasty wasp sting and saying "and that folks is why some people dont like wasps". doesnt mean you dont like wasps, just that you can see why some people dont like wasps.

beautiful explanation. thank you

MeliCat

02-21-2012, 03:49 PM

i am FAR from the "dismissive vet".

Oh and katz - just to be clear here - I never called you a "dismissive vet". What I said is in the 1 minute interaction you had with these low level characters you may have been *perceived* that way.

It's interesting thinking about this all. You and I because we've been playing for a while have a framework in which to put a lot of these terms can make jumps in our understanding from the knowledge we have. When you're starting out there are just huge such huge knowledge gaps. So a personality type that just doggedly hits every lfm and immediately joins with "share please" (sans everything else - including shame and shyness) which seems to be this magical phrase that gives them the power to go and get xp could well be the type that hit your lfm.

I guess we'll never know.

MeliCat

02-21-2012, 04:10 PM

Some People like to fuss. It's a quick matter to see who is here to add something earnest to the discussions and who is here to offer nothing but strife.

I'm still enjoying the irony of this post btw.

katz

02-21-2012, 04:12 PM

he's defending his wife's honor :D

but i think we're having a mostly civil conversation at this point.

meh

HAL

02-21-2012, 04:38 PM

beautiful explanation. thank you

Well, all I can say is that playing "devil's advocate" can be uncomfortable unless you either don't mind being lumped in with them or make it very clear that you are playing devil's advocate... :D

ReaperAlexEU

02-21-2012, 05:57 PM

Well, all I can say is that playing "devil's advocate" can be uncomfortable unless you either don't mind being lumped in with them or make it very clear that you are playing devil's advocate... :D

which is especially important on a forum where a good chunk of the readers might be speed reading at work when they should be :)

Ungood

02-21-2012, 07:52 PM

I'm still enjoying the irony of this post btw.

I am glad you enjoy the irony to be honest, I am enjoying the show to say the least. Would you like to see what I see, so maybe you can join for me the enjoyment?

First Point:

The first thing I noticed, as opposition rose was assumptions began to be thrown around. Never a good thing to assume much in these situations. We should work first with what we know. But assumptions were used. mainly 2 very big ones were tossed out:
The Subject was:

New to the Game
Low Level

Neither of these are known, they were purely assumed. For all anyone really knows, the Subject could have been a member of a high level guild, and been working on their 15th life. The people making the assumptions so far, really have no idea about the subject.

Note: It was assumed they were new and low level, mainly because that is what was needed to be presented to demonize Katz, to present the stereotypical battles of of the "The Evil vet is Picking on the New Person" in all these situations, it's very cliche', I know, but that is, none the less what the critics are doing in this case. It is only effective if people are sympathetic to such a plight or are led to believe every situation where this happens that is case. It is a means to make a victim out of the person who said "Share Please". Trite but effective to any who fall for it.

Next Point: Communication issues:

The Adversaries here assume that the Subject could not speak or respond, and dismiss the concept they perhaps the person was simply unwilling. Again, this is make a victim out of the person who said "Share Please" to make them helpless, and this again, playing a sympathy card for them, as anyone who does anything to a helpless person is evil, especially if they are kicked from the group.

So, they propose, that the person could not respond for any number of reasons, Primarily:

Did not Speak English
Slow or Mentally Limited

Now, neither, either or both of those could be true, but, their is no way to know for sure.

However, Communication, is part of what you know, and part of what you use:

Notice: that the Subject knew the word "Please" and did NOT use it in conjunction with the first request, only after their demands were not met, did they opt to apply the socially acceptable courteous act of adding in "Please"

So, we know that initially this Subject was not opening up being nice. They were being demanding. To assume they are not being obnoxious would be an incorrect assumptions, because we know, that they knew common graces and for whatever motive did not use them. That is hardly a victim.

But the fact remains, this person did not even open with a commonly known line of "Share Please" they simply said "Share" If we went in the other direction, it could easily be assumed they are being a demanding snot.

Third Point: What you Can and Can't Do.

Katz after hearing the First Share, tried to explain she could not share the quest, she did not have it. I mean, really, what do her critics expect her to at that point? She tried to explain in clear simple words. She couldn't.

She is using an Unflagged Toon, to port people to a quest to save them a walk.

I mean, really, it's laughable at this point that her Adversaries would have issues, even the most polite person needs to express, what they can do and what they can't do that. She was not flagged, ergo she could not share. What do they expect her to do, drop everything, leave everyone else hanging, just to run off, and flag herself so she can share a quest with a guy that can't even give her the decency of saying "Please" with their request?

That is laughable.

I suppose I could go on and on, about this, especially after the other person shared the quest, and the individual was not flagged and still asked for a share.

But at the end of the day, The OP was a prime example of exactly why people do not like "Share Please", and this whole topic is a prime example of why they don't like the people who tell them that they should like it.

Failedlegend

02-21-2012, 08:26 PM

@Ungood: I'm sorry but I've been playing since mid 2009...and I still don't know where half the quests are located, which ones require flagging, which ones are walk-ups, which ones have quest givers half way across the planet and hell i just recently learned what the hell a taxi was. It doesn't matter if you've just completed your 32nd TR there's probably still some things you don't know and guess what thats ok.

From the looks of the OP yes some of the options you desribed are some SUGEESTIONS we made for reasons why the person would be misunderstanding...one of which could be the player has no idea what a Taxi is and asumed that had nothing to do with them...also just because Latz doesn't have the quest for sharing im sure there was plenty of people in the quest that had it...or someone who could help

Overall I'm VERY disappointed in this bored alot with people demoning phrases lkike "Heal PLz" or "Share Plz"...cause you know you NEVER use short forms in DDO...oh sorry Dungeons and Dragons Online.

You don't see wizards or bards *****ing when someone says "haste plz" or at least I don't. If you do take the game THIS seriously I think some of you need to stop playing for a bit...go do something else...unwind.

Ungood

02-21-2012, 08:49 PM

@Ungood: I'm sorry but I've been playing since mid 2009...and I still don't know where half the quests are located, which ones require flagging, which ones are walk-ups, which ones have quest givers half way across the planet and hell i just recently learned what the hell a taxi was. It doesn't matter if you've just completed your 32nd TR there's probably still some things you don't know and guess what thats ok.

I agree with you 100% with this, and I fully agree with you that contractions are needed for fast effective communication in MMO's.

However, what I have issue with is that people get on their high horse and fail to realize that Katz did not kick him for saying share, she was simply unable to share the quest, and tried to tell him as much. The reality is, She did all she could as far as that went and waited till after he got a share and then asked for a share again before giving up on him. And lets be real, if ever there was a point to give up on someone, that is pretty much it.

Vint

02-21-2012, 09:05 PM

@Ungood: I'm sorry but I've been playing since mid 2009...and I still don't know You don't see wizards or bards *****ing when someone says "haste plz" or at least I don't. If you do take the game THIS seriously I think some of you need to stop playing for a bit...go do something else...unwind.

This is a well thought out post, but it is different for everyone. I deal with idiots all day long and when I log onto the game I want to relax and get away from it.

I understand that people play the game for different reasons. XP/min is not always the priority of some in game. Do you PUG often? I would hate to think that you would burden other people for share all the time if you don’t know where the half the quests are and you have been playing for over 2 years. Even if so I guess some people have to take the game serious enough to research were the quest givers are.
To each their own but don’t go assuming that peoples “unwind” time means hugging puggers

MeliCat

02-21-2012, 09:12 PM

I agree with you 100% with this.

However, what I have issue with is that people get on their high horse and fail to realize that Katz did not kick him for saying that, she was simply unable to share the quest, and tried to tell him as much. The reality is, She did all she could as far as that went and waited till after he got a share and then asked for a share again before giving up on him. And lets be real, if ever there was a point to give up on someone, that is pretty much it.

I think you'll find that the issue is not so much that she kicked him. But then she goes to the forums and makes a post about how annoying it is when really, what was she doing but hanging around in the sub?

He said 4 lines in party of one word is all. He clearly didn't understand her. He didn't understand pugger number 2s sharing of the quest result.

At that point, while hanging around in the sub and being in her own party (ie pugger number 1 is not even clogging up a party spot from what I can understand), she has a choice of various things:

- futher explanations - granted she's tried. it's pretty clear they're clueless for whatever reasons (odd terms like 'taxi', even 'raid' or 'flagging', youth, language, whatever we don't know)
- a comment like "heya catch you another time" before dismissing him.
- just dismissing him.

Just dismissing them is a perfectly valid option. They're probably used to that. There is a chance that they don't even know how to leave the party of their own volition (entirely possible - level 9 speed leveled in some way).

Calling her "graceless" was perhaps a bit harsh on my part for which I apologise.

I have no need to know about Katz - my response was based entirely on the OP. I value that you are defending your friend here but I hope you can see why I and others have responded the way we have. I don't really think there is much victim defending or demonizing going on. There is more that can be done for "new" players but granted we don't necessarily have to be the ones to do so.

And around now there are some who will be positively *choking* on their popcorn so I'll stop now.

Ungood

02-21-2012, 09:50 PM

I think you'll find that the issue is not so much that she kicked him. But then she goes to the forums and makes a post about how annoying it is when really, what was she doing but hanging around in the sub?

The real issue here is that you were given an example of why some players don't like to hear Share Please because of the impending futility that typically follows, however, as opposed to understanding their frustration, you opted to attack the messenger.

MeliCat

02-21-2012, 09:57 PM

The real issue here is that you were given an example of why some players don't like to hear Share Please because of the futility that typically follows, however, as opposed to understanding their frustration, you opt to attack the messenger.

I can't see how that situation is frustrating and am truly surprised that the OP does. You are totally right that I don't understand although I have made some attempt to do so. It has obviously got you very upset that I don't understand her. Not much I can do about that sorry.

Ungood

02-21-2012, 10:04 PM

he obviously didn't know where the quest giver was and sharing the quest would give him a nice arrow to the quest entrance...so after pressing share I would POLITELY tell him whereabouts the quest giver is so he knows for next time

Just a heads up, this does not work in explorer areas unless the player already has been to where the quest entrance is.

You would be better off standing outside the quest and telling them to come to you (follow the blue arrow) assuming you do not have everyone spread out all over the zone. :rolleyes:

katz

02-21-2012, 10:17 PM

this whole thing has just become LOL.

i'd like to point out 2 things. 1. i wasn't frustrated. it was much more of a 'facepalm' moment.

and 2. i wasn't posting this here for the lulz. for people to point and laugh. it was supposed to be an example of what not to do. why people hate 'shr plz'. this situation has only happened to me once. every other time someone has asked for a share on a raid and i respond with "are you flagged" it has opened a dialog for me to discuss with them what they need to prepare for the raid. every time.

but eh.

HAL

02-21-2012, 10:34 PM

I am glad you enjoy the irony to be honest, I am enjoying the show to say the least. Would you like to see what I see, so maybe you can join for me the enjoyment?

Some problems with your "vision":

New to the Game
Low Level

Neither of these are known, they were purely assumed. For all anyone really knows, the Subject could have been a member of a high level guild, and been working on their 15th life. The people making the assumptions so far, really have no idea about the subject.

I didn't see anyone state that this WAS the case, simply that it might be the case. Please point me to the post if I am wrong.

It was assumed they were new and low level, mainly because that is what was needed to be presented to demonize Katz,

I didn't read anyone state this, do you read minds?

The Adversaries here assume that the Subject could not speak or respond, and dismiss the concept they perhaps the person was simply unwilling. Again, this is make a victim out of the person who said "Share Please" to make them helpless, and this again, playing a sympathy card for them, as anyone who does anything to a helpless person is evil, especially if they are kicked from the group.

First, the definition of "Adversary":
ad·ver·sar·y
[ad-ver-ser-ee] Show IPA noun, plural -sar·ies, adjective

noun
1.
a person, group, or force that opposes or attacks; opponent; enemy; foe.

No one attacked katz or declared her an enemy. Discussion =\= Fight.

And again, how do you know the motivation of these "adversaries"? Again, do you read minds?

But the fact remains, this person did not even open with a commonly known line of "Share Please" they simply said "Share" If we went in the other direction, it could easily be assumed they are being a demanding snot.

It could also be assumed that they were not. Why make negative assumptions?

I mean, really, it's laughable at this point that her Adversaries would have issues, even the most polite person needs to express, what they can do and what they can't do that. She was not flagged, ergo she could not share. What do they expect her to do, drop everything, leave everyone else hanging, just to run off, and flag herself so she can share a quest with a guy that can't even give her the decency of saying "Please" with their request?

I think you need to go back and re-read the posts. No one suggested that and I even suggested the opposite: that she finish what she was doing and THEN attempt to help this player understand.

HAL

02-21-2012, 10:36 PM

But the OP didn't lump the person into that camp and tried to help. But you lumped the OP into the "share please" haters. You may not be as generous with your interpretations of other motives as you think.

The OP lumped herself into that camp by disparaging the "share please" subject of her screenshot and empathizing with the "share please haters". No assumptions or interpretations on my part were necessary.

Norean

02-22-2012, 02:30 AM

This isn't a reply to the op but rather a reply to some of the subsequent posts but jeez, how hard is it to share a quest?

~jradnut

02-22-2012, 02:45 AM

I would just like to point out that by posting this sort of thread you have name yourself elitist, and all know elitist is bad. You should have gone WAY out of your way to get this person a share so as to avoid the elitist tag...which is bad.
I, personally, and me, would never join such an elitist raid with elitist peoples who will not share on demand. Is a button...push it, or get a friend to cuz I have a puppy gnawing on my shoe and cant do it myself and momiscallingandpaperisdueandlawnneedsmowing.
Thank you for ruining my day!

*flounce*

goodspeed

02-22-2012, 04:12 AM

I think my favorite shares are when the npc is right there at the entrance.

Theirs no getting around the bastard he's right there, and he sends you to the quest.

You literally have to click the **** npc to get into the quest.

It's like a nub asking for a share to ways stand. You ask have they done it before. They reply tons of times. Then you reply, then get ur ass over here and click on the npc.

Ungood

02-22-2012, 06:05 AM

I didn't see anyone state that this WAS the case, simply that it might be the case. Please point me to the post if I am wrong.

It was implied, and used as a bases to belittle the OP. Case in point, by you and a very recent post by another in your camp.

So many experienced players don't seem to realize that this game that they like so much that they have played every bit of it umpteem times and memorized will cease to exist without new blood. If you treat that new blood like **** and drive them away, this game will cease to exist and they won't be able to play it at all, nevermind in the rigidly-dictated way that they demand now...

Highlighted, this makes the assumption the person or subject in question was new to the game, and being victimized by a vet by insane expectations.

I have no need to know about Katz - my response was based entirely on the OP. I value that you are defending your friend here but I hope you can see why I and others have responded the way we have. I don't really think there is much victim defending or demonizing going on. There is more that can be done for "new" players but granted we don't necessarily have to be the ones to do so.

Again, to make an assumption that this about "New player vs Vet". it could have been two vets, just with a communication barrier because the other person was not willing to open up dialogue. Even if in their own language.

First, the definition of "Adversary":
ad·ver·sar·y
[ad-ver-ser-ee] Show IPA noun, plural -sar·ies, adjective

noun
1.
a person, group, or force that opposes or attacks; opponent; enemy; foe.

No one attacked katz or declared her an enemy. Discussion =\= Fight.

The OP lumped herself into that camp by disparaging the "share please" subject of her screenshot and empathizing with the "share please haters". No assumptions or interpretations on my part were necessary.Seems pretty clear where the stands and sides are in this and where you stand.

And it's a fight, not a discussion. A discussion is when YOU are willing to have your opinion changed by opening up dialogue with another person, and you make it very clear, that is not the case with you.

And again, how do you know the motivation of these "adversaries"? Again, do you read minds?Oh of course not.

I have friends who speak English as a second language (poorly). I have been in situations where I couldn't type because I was fighting. I know that young children and mentally-challenged people play this game. For all these reasons I don't see the subject as being at fault at all. I choose to give people the benefit of the doubt unless they are obviously being rude.

I don't need to read your mind when you are willing to tell me your motive to my face.

You make it quite clear you have crusade to fight for your friends invested in this discussion, and thus openly admit that your view is skewed because of this.

I think you need to go back and re-read the posts. No one suggested that and I even suggested the opposite: that she finish what she was doing and THEN attempt to help this player understand.She was prepping to go run a raid, not sit in sub all day with nothing to do, a taxi is no different then if someone put up a "ToD entrance Run" LFM so that the people who had not made that run could join them for a guide to the quest entrance and then join the actual raid after they arrived. That is neither the time nor the place to hold someone's hand and walk them though the game.

And again, it is too bad that there are players that lump everyone that they don't even know into one pot like that.

This something we both agree upon, I agree, it is quite the pity when people make all kinds of assumptions about people and situations they know nothing about.

katz

02-22-2012, 06:43 AM

The OP lumped herself into that camp by disparaging the "share please" subject of her screenshot and empathizing with the "share please haters". No assumptions or interpretations on my part were necessary.

wow. really? do you have any characters on Orien? if so, who. so that way i can just throw you (and you alone) out of my groups if you ask for a share, so i can live up to your expectations of me.

*facepalm*

i give up.

just like the subject of my OP... you aren't listening to me, and you don't care. so i'm wasting my breath. here ya go *kick*

Denegrator

02-22-2012, 06:59 AM

*facepalm*

i give up.

just like the subject of my OP... you aren't listening to me, and you don't care. so i'm wasting my breath. here ya go *kick*

Shr Plz. :p

Seems appropriate at this juncture. :)

HungarianRhapsody

02-22-2012, 07:04 AM

I just dislike "shr plz" and its variants because the people who start a conversation with that phrase consistantly turn out to be a waste of party space at best and an active hinderance at worst.

Feel free to call me a "dismissive vet" if you want, but I'm happy to take a thoroughly undergeared character into a quest with me who is actually interested in *trying* to help themselves instead of a character (regardless of gear or "skill") who wants other people do do everything for them.

...and for quests like Relic of Sovereign Past or HoX/VoD/MA/LoB where people might ask for the quest at the entrance because they forgot to pick it up or want to save the party/themselves a long run time to the questgiver and back? The players who are worth having in your party *STILL* won't open their conversation with "shr plz".

Ungood

02-22-2012, 07:07 AM

Shr Plz. :p

Seems appropriate at this juncture. :)

I owe you a +1 This was /Win! :D

Denegrator

02-22-2012, 07:09 AM

...and for quests like Relic of Sovereign Past or HoX/VoD/MA/LoB where people might ask for the quest at the entrance because they forgot to pick it up or want to save the party/themselves a long run time to the questgiver and back? The players who are worth having in your party *STILL* won't open their conversation with "shr plz".

Aye, I agree, unless they are being deliberately facetious about it. :)

katz

02-22-2012, 07:10 AM

Shr Plz. :p

Seems appropriate at this juncture. :)

are you flagged for this thread? :D

HungarianRhapsody

02-22-2012, 07:11 AM

Aye, I agree, unless they are being deliberately facetious about it. :)

I'll admit that I've done that, but I always make sure that I'm in a wilderness area or in the quest before I let that go into party chat. ;)

Denegrator

02-22-2012, 07:12 AM

are you flagged for this thread? :D

Who did what now? :p :p

ahpook

02-22-2012, 07:26 AM

The OP lumped herself into that camp by disparaging the "share please" subject of her screenshot and empathizing with the "share please haters". No assumptions or interpretations on my part were necessary.

I don't agree with either of those bolded words and do not see them in the OP. My point was that you brought them to the thread because of previous opinions you hold. This really isn't much different from those you wish to demonize.

For the record, I have never kicked anyone for saying "share plz". But I do think that before joining an LFM one should have taken the quest or know it well enough to know if one is qualified to run it. If they have done neither they should at least take the extra 3 seconds to have a real conversation. By doing none of that what message are they sending? Again I query, if it takes 5 words to display one is not lazy why would someone be too lazy to type them?

katz

02-22-2012, 07:28 AM

Who did what now? :p :p

oh that means you need to read half a dozen rage threads about 'shr plz' first before you can do this thread. unfortunately i seem to have misplaced my list of links, so i can't share. can anyone help me out here? :confused:

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Ungood

02-22-2012, 07:29 AM

unfortunately i seem to have misplaced my list of links, so i can't share. can anyone help me out here? :confused:

Shr plz. :p

katz

02-22-2012, 07:31 AM

Shr plz. :p

YOU'RE NOT LISTENING TO MEEEEEE *RAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE* ;)

lol

Ungood

02-22-2012, 07:32 AM

YOU'RE NOT LISTENING TO MEEEEEE *RAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE* ;)

lol

*Kick* :p

HAL

02-22-2012, 08:53 AM

I don't agree with either of those bolded words and do not see them in the OP. My point was that you brought them to the thread because of previous opinions you hold. This really isn't much different from those you wish to demonize.

Ok, I'll bite: You say the OP didn't lump the object of her screenshot into the camp of people who are irritating/idiots/whatever because they use "share please" - that seemed to be the entire point of her example. And that IS disparaging: "to speak of or treat slightingly; depreciate; belittle".

You say that I lumped the OP into the share please hater camp - I didn't have to do that, she did it herself in her OP. Empathy: "vicarious experiencing of the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of another". She says "this is why people hate..." - she either reads minds or she empathizes with them.

Phemt81

02-22-2012, 09:13 AM

YOU'RE NOT LISTENING TO MEEEEEE *RAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE* ;)

lol

*Kick* :p

Oh guys YOU take this game too seriously... :rolleyes:

You, not the others :D

Vint

02-22-2012, 09:29 AM

oh that means you need to read half a dozen rage threads about 'shr plz' first before you can do this thread. unfortunately i seem to have misplaced my list of links, so i can't share. can anyone help me out here? :confused:

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

lmao

Ungood

02-22-2012, 09:35 AM

Oh guys YOU take this game too seriously... :rolleyes:

You, not the others :D

*Kick* :p

Cauthey

02-22-2012, 09:43 AM

I was over in another thread in another forum section. Where am I supposed to go?

Ungood

02-22-2012, 10:11 AM

I was over in another thread in another forum section. Where am I supposed to go?

*Kick* :p

RumbIe

02-22-2012, 10:14 AM

Wow. Another one of these threads. I almost want to make one called "THIS is why people hate people who hate "share plz""

I think the OP has an extreme case on their hands given the screen shot in the initial post and while I generally don't agree with their statement, or others following suggesting that anyone asking to share is a less intelligent individual, I would have to side with the OP in this case given the repeated request by the accused without obviously paying any attention to response.

I often ask for a share. The main reason is I appreciate everyone's time as I expect others to respect mine. I like it when someone asks for a share and indicates they are on their way. Usually when I join a group I'll say "Hi. Buffing and on my way" I've been playing a while so I know where most of the quests are and usually click repeat once I turn a quest in or gather all in an area when I'm around. Since I've been playing a bit I have the benefit of experience to know this is helpful in saving time. We often forget newer players haven't figured out where every quest is yet.

Let me give an example of when I asked for one, but I was mistaken in my request. I joined a Cursed Crypt in Necro 3. I'd completed the chain and actually run it before in elite, which was a request of the LFM poster (asked for someone who could open elite). I tell him I can open on elite and that I'm buffing and on my way. (Note: First words out of my mouth were not "share plz")I zone in off my airship to the Orchard drop off and start running. I know that I will need to run down, zone to the lower necro, get the quest and run all the way back up. I had noticed that this LFM had been up for a while and only recently started to fill so I figured I'd hurry as they had already been waiting a while. Added to this is that another elite opener had joined and jumped in as I was running thus starting the timer so they asked me to hurry in. I asked for a share. I got a response they couldn't. Now I know I had run the chain before and the quest itself so I was eligible to run it again. I also know there is a group of individuals (see many posted here) that are naturally averse to sharing for some reason. I asked if they were just making an assumption and explained I have run it before on this char and was flagged (some flagging quests still allow you to share regardless). I do this as I am still running to collect the quest. I was informed that it was grayed out. This is a learning point for me. I apologize, thank them for the new info and tell them I'm grabbing it and will be right there. I do, we run it and complete no issues.

So here I am a "Quest Share" requester. Have I greatly offended anyone? What was wrong with what I did?

The problem with both sides is that there is a crowd that dosn't read responses. I.e. in the OP's initial thread. If they had said Share Plz and then read the OPs response and said Oh sorry. I'll go grab the quest I would hope that no one in here would have been outraged, though I know a few still would. The other side get's so easily offended and they know it all or expect others to conform to their style of game play that may involve more interaction than another player feels like contributing that day.

Personally I don't care if someone asks for a share. It takes me literally, not figuratively, 3 seconds to share a quest. I mean when I know the quest giver is by the entrance or it's a walk up I do raise my eyebrow, but I don't get bent out of shape over it. It's just a game and perhaps sharing will help them find it on the map quicker or remind them where it is so they get to it quicker. A please or a thank you is nice. Idle chat is fine, but I've run quests with people who haven't said a word before and ran it flawlessly. It didn't ruin my day that I didn't find out how their day was or who they were. I don't care. It's an online game to kill time. I'm not trying to make friends with every kid I meet who's sitting in a cyber cafe in Singapore at 3 in the morning on their 5th coffee. If someone starts conversation I'll respond, but i don't require it.

I guess the bottom line is we are all looking for different things from this game. Some come to chat. Some come to just run quests. For some it changes based on the day they had. Maybe they just want to blow off some steam playing and not talk to anyone. Maybe it relaxes them form a tough day at work or school. Then you get a hard time by some person who can't spend 3 seconds to share a quest (again the OP is not guilty of this here) We all need to be a little more respectful of other players here and let them be who they want to be. So the haters take the 3 seconds and share. Don't let it bother you. What harm did it really do? To the share requesters, recognize that an equally quick "Hi. Hows it going" first also only takes 3 seconds and sets up a nice gateway for a "sharz plox"

BigSlugger

02-22-2012, 10:25 AM

Shr plz

PersonalityA: OMG this person is gonna backpack the whole quest!

PersonalityB: Ok, shared, whatever

PersonalityC: This person might not know where quest giver or the quest is. Maybe I can help him/her.

The original post is simply a demonstration of why people think like PersonalityA, doesn't mean she is such.

Is this thread p2p?

Vint

02-22-2012, 10:27 AM

We all need to be a little more respectful of other players here and let them be who they want to be.

I do not find it respectful when the first thing typed or said is "share plz". And I willl also let them be who they want to be. However, they show no respect, they get no respect. And I will follow you logic and be who I want to be.

I understand it will only take me 3 seconds to share, but the 3 seconds add after a while. At the same time instead of asking for a share everytime a person runs a quest, why not go see what Wiki or the quest guide has to say. The same goes for people not knowing how to solve a Shroud puzzle. I dont want another thread about this, but people are to lazy to learn puzzles after the 100 time. Same is said about shr plz people. Dont ask me to be a nice guy if you just want to be lazy.

Cauthey

02-22-2012, 10:29 AM

Is this thread p2p?

Yes. It's the Drama Pack. If you don't already own it, you should buy it. It's highly entertaining. The end rewards, ultimately, are kind of meh, though.

Luxgolg

02-22-2012, 10:29 AM

Expectations people.
My time online is just as important as yours. XP per minute has reduced many of the friendly pugs to +10 rage -6 neg level pugs. My 30% XP pot burns just as fast in guild groups as pugs. LFM's are put up to help eachother out, not to discriminate against less experienced players. "TR's only, BYOH, casters only, know it, no noobs" and the like is just impatience. Several weeks/months/years ago YOU were the person you are complaining about today.

Love the game. Love the people. Love the haters.

I'll always share. I'll always help.

When I become more concerned with XP per minute and which TR life or loot farm i'm on, I'll go back to work.

ahpook

02-22-2012, 10:39 AM

Wow. Another one of these threads. ....
I guess the bottom line is we are all looking for different things from this game. Some come to chat. Some come to just run quests. For some it changes based on the day they had. Maybe they just want to blow off some steam playing and not talk to anyone. Maybe it relaxes them form a tough day at work or school. Then you get a hard time by some person who can't spend 3 seconds to share a quest (again the OP is not guilty of this here) We all need to be a little more respectful of other players here and let them be who they want to be. So the haters take the 3 seconds and share. Don't let it bother you. What harm did it really do? To the sh"Ware requesters, recognize that an equally quick "Hi. Hows it going" first also only takes 3 seconds and sets up a nice gateway for a "sharz plox"

Good post. I just want to comment on this last part. While true and fair there is a flip side. It takes 3 seconds to be more polite and social than "Share plz".

"Forgot where quest giver, can I have a share please?"
"Haven't run this quest, can someone give me directions or share. Thx",
"Can someone share so I can get there quicker?"

Why is ok to tell some people to be more tolerant and spend 3 seconds, but when they ask for the same 3 seconds from the requestor they are elitist haters? I don't get it.

RumbIe

02-22-2012, 10:43 AM

"Share plz" does not show disrespect. It shows complete neutrality. If they said "Hey suckers. Give me a share moron" then that would show disrespect. You are just hyper sensitive and can't let things go. Who cares. "Share plz". Oh my feelings are so hurt. How will I make it through the day????? Come on. I know you're not like that, but that's what it comes off as.

Sure someone can go wiki it, but to be honest I'd rather just share it. 3 seconds to share as opposed to someone ALT Tabbing out or hitting MyDDO (by the way if they don't know enough about the quests I doubt they know how to link pages in MyDDO). Then they have to pull up the info, read the quest and then pull up their maps in game and find the guy. Meanwhile I'm sitting at the quest wondering where this guy is and why he's taking so long and thinking what a punter he is for wasting my time, all the while he's just trying to be "respectful" but if he asked to share I'd be more than happy to.

By the way another good time I like to get share requests right off the bat. When I'm in a raid group. I'm more than happy to share and then see the listing of who's still on a timer. Better to find out then than have someone join the group, go buff, run to the quest giver and then let you know after 5 minutes of your life and own buff have run off that they are still on a timer.

Let things go. Relax. Enjoy life. No one is intentionally asking for a share to hurt your feelings or be disrespectful. In fact let's look at it this way. Maybe the person on the other end doesn't speak English very well and is not comfortable talking or embarrassed about it. Hey welcome to the game my foreign friend. You don't speak English you're out even if you do know the quest inside and out. Now who'd being disrespectful.?

HungarianRhapsody

02-22-2012, 10:49 AM

RumbIe

02-22-2012, 10:49 AM

ahpook - I agree. When I ask for a share it' snot the first thing out of my mouth. However for some it might be and it doesn't bother me. A lot of the times my requests look like this. I've just run to the quest after buffing and was maybe the second to last or last person joining the group so I'm conscious of time. I get there and realize I don't have the quest. Maybe like a Wiz King where the quest giver is back in town. I've already joined say "Hi. Quick buff and on my way." Niceties out of the way and all. But now I don't have the quest. So I say "I'm an idiot. Forgot to grab the quest., Can someone share please." A little self deprivation always encourages sympathy for my forgetfulness.

This is my personality though. I recognize a couple extra words make it easier on all. But some people have different personalities and it doesn't mean we can't play an online game together or spend 20 minutes enduring each other for a greater good (to complete the quest). We just need to all relax a bit and just let things go. Life is too good to get caught up in petty or minor things.

RumbIe

02-22-2012, 11:03 AM

Denegrator

02-22-2012, 11:35 AM

Yes. It's the Drama Pack. If you don't already own it, you should buy it. It's highly entertaining. The end rewards, ultimately, are kind of meh, though.

Aye, there's 3 flagging quests before you are Drama ready. There's: Mountainous Molehills, Jumping to Conclusions, and Petty Politics/Picky People (also called Rant n' Ravers). :D :D

oh that means you need to read half a dozen rage threads about 'shr plz' first before you can do this thread. unfortunately i seem to have misplaced my list of links, so i can't share. can anyone help me out here? :confused:

See above Katz, I checked the wiki. :D

HungarianRhapsody

02-22-2012, 11:54 AM

So Hungarian you have never had an experience where the player who asked for a Share was either adequate or actually really good? If not then you have had bad luck. I don't associate the Share Plz with any kind of ability. First I sometimes ask for a share and I hand out pots at the end of LoB on my melee if needed (or did when we all were first learning the quest), spend tons on raise dead scrolls and heal scrolls on my UMD characters and will even show a "noob" how to get back up to the top in Tempest Spine after they are blown off and I was not because I remember what it was like to be left in the lava. All of this from a "Share Plz" kind of guy.

There's a guy on my server, Prelude, who is a cleric TR. I've run with him on almost all my characters at about every level range at some point. This guy doesn't say anything in quests, but he is squared away. He solos epics often and will invite others in for chests not requesting gear or shards from them. I ran eADQ1 with him my first time and died about 6 times. He never said a word, came, got my stone and rez'd me. I learned by watching him use 6 hires, dismissing each to get DV from them all, how to do it on my own. Rarely says a word, but this guy knows hi s thing. Even though he doesn't speak or prattle on about stuff I don't really care about I don't get offended. It doesn't affect my game play and it isn't an indication of the type of player he is. He's competent and giving (he didn't need to rez me or get my stone if he was in a zerg state of mind). Maybe his english isn't that good. Who knows. But I'll always quest with that guy and share a quest if asked.

Don't stereotype all people who ask for a share. I could equally stereo type all people who are offended by Share Plz as needy individuals who are going to slow up the quest wasting time chatting with their friends or guildies in guild chat or expect all clerics to be healbots, etc. I don't because I don't care.

So relax, let the person in your group. Take 3 precious seconds and share to help a person out and maybe you'll be surprised who's in your group. If not then blacklist the individual, but not the whole entire masses.

I'm sure that there are some lovely, delightful, exceptionally competent people who start their conversations with "shr plz". I just think that there a tiny minority.

I'm very happy to show someone where the questgiver is. I'm always glad to help people learn how the game works. I'm happy to cast any buffs that people need whenever I have those buffs. But I also like when the other players in the party have some minimal instinct for self preservation and are willing to put forth at least a small effort in that direction. Sadly, the large majority (not all, but it has been a large majority) of the people that I've run quests with that start their conversation with "shr plz" or some variation have been burdens on the party who aren't willing to actually do anything for themselves.

When past experience has been very consistent and has provided very few exceptions, I think it's reasonable to believe that there is some kind of relationship between the two. I don't want them to quit DDO. I don't want to change their behavior. I don't want to try to make them act differently than they want to. I just want them to enjoy DDO in someone else's party. I don't think that's unreasonable. Why do you have trouble letting me be who I want to be?