DDO`s difficulty:Noob easy button.

[StableKobold]

Whats your own?<Edt:Notice-Translation from half english half koboldish down at post #3.>
I got afew of myself.
1)Warfoge arcane/Maybe +evasion
2)Artificer warfoge.
3)Favored soul warfoge.
Oh oh i find out something intresting.
What is in comment to all those 3?
1)Warfoge<Ftw>
2)Spellcasting.
Well,If we`ll check it out,Almost any toon you`ll make have some style of 1 of those 2.
Barbarian horc?Warfoge DR.
Cleric drow?Spellcasting.
Elf ranger?Ranged demage-Spellcasting<?>-Exception
Halfing bard?SPellcasting.
Dwarf rogue?I)Tanking as a warfoge,2)UMD,3)Arti? xD
So-Have turbin done some mistake by adding to the game warfoge?
And is there something i missed?
Tyvm,
Koaboa.

[Zenthalas]

Whats your own?
I got afew of myself.
1)Warfoge arcane/Maybe +evasion
2)Artificer warfoge.
3)Favored soul warfoge.
Oh oh i find out something intresting.
What is in comment to all those 3?
1)Warfoge<Ftw>
2)Spellcasting.
Well,If we`ll check it out,Almost any toon you`ll make have some style of 1 of those 2.
Barbarian horc?Warfoge DR.
Cleric drow?Spellcasting.
Elf ranger?Ranged demage-Spellcasting<?>-Exception
Halfing bard?SPellcasting.
Dwarf rogue?I)Tanking as a warfoge,2)UMD,3)Arti? xD
So-Have turbin done some mistake by adding to the game warfoge?
And is there something i missed?
Tyvm,
Koaboa.

You missed stating your point for this thread, but from what I gather you think all WF casters be them arcane or divine are an easy button & you also think that Turbine made a mistake by incorporating a core race. The rest looks like VCR instructions in chinese to me.

[StableKobold]

You missed stating your point for this thread, but from what I gather you think all WF casters be them arcane or divine are an easy button & you also think that Turbine made a mistake by incorporating a core race. The rest looks like VCR instructions in chinese to me.

Sorry,Let me"Translate it". =P
I have 2 questions.
Firstly,What you think is the ddo's Noob easy button?
And the second,Is-Why warfoges are so Overpowered?

[Antheal]

Noob easy button?

Mana pots.

[NaturalHazard]

I think Trolls are the most over powered race and are a noob easy button.

[StableKobold]

lol not bad-Tho,Mana pots require afew PPz-Which shall be aquired somehow,WHich require to have some charter b4.I speak about a first charter of every noob will pawn.

[Esserbe]

You forgot -50% healing amp, inability to use robes and armours (of which there are far more excellent named ones compared to docents), -2 CHA (= -1 DC/UMD), inherent arcane spell failure. Warforged are not overpowered or unbalanced.

They were however unbalanced when they were considered the worst race in the game, bar none.

I disagree with the notion that any class or race combination is an easy button.

[NaturalHazard]

You forgot -50% healing amp, inability to use robes and armours (of which there are far more excellent named ones compared to docents), -2 CHA (= -1 DC/UMD), inherent arcane spell failure. Warforged are not overpowered or unbalanced.

They were however unbalanced when they were considered the worst race in the game, bar none.

I disagree with the notion that any class or race combination is an easy button.

Come on........ how can you not agree that trolls are over powered and are easy buttons?

[Memnir]

Experience and Knowledge - DDO's Easy Buttons.

[Callavan]

Easy "corner store" access to potions and other magical effects.

I want to say ship buffs also but frankly since the Devs' idea of proper game balance isn't terribly balanced anyway... meh.

[Lleren]

Sorry,Let me"Translate it". =P
I have 2 questions.
Firstly,What you think is the ddo's Noob easy button?
And the second,Is-Why warfoges are so Overpowered?

I think reading a selection of build and advice posts that eventually points one to the wiki is the New Player Easy button.

Noobs can not benefit from any easy button, ever. They can only rage and hate when things do not go thier way.

Note: Noob only reads as the filter bypassing insult version to me. i.e. Just another N word.

I do not believe Warforged in themselves are currently overpowered. I do think that melee's have a defense system that has been neutered at the top levels, and therefore most do not build for it in the lower levels.

[StableKobold]

Ess-Now tell me the truth.
Most of the guys who you see and know who are the best are?Sorcerer.
Repair the sentence:The last guy standing?Warfoged wizard.
That awesome healer who is also an amazing tank,High HP DR and SP?FvS-Mostly a warforged.
That dude who saven us all on most of the quests,servove it,And use almsot no gear?
Cleric18/monk2 who tanked sully.
Other example for fine builds would be maybe rogue/monk,Barbarian,Fighter,And almost everything-But,
Those require gear.
All who i just said require potency,GFL,Wizardry and GS wepon<Maybe> and theyre rocking hard time.
Ofc with a better gear they will even do better.
Take for example the PvP arenas.
Arcane rule there.
Rest my case.

[Antheal]

Greensteel and TRing are easy buttons. Maybe not n00b easy buttons, but easy buttons nonetheless.

[StableKobold]

Greensteel and TRing are easy buttons. Maybe not n00b easy buttons, but easy buttons nonetheless.

Greensteel-Agree.It`s easy to farm,Require 1 pack,And used by any newb.
Tho-If you ask me,The fastest ways are just creating a naked caster.Get maxi,Empower,Toughtness,And at level 8 my alt named Spellmastery killing easily level 14 monks<Bun,Shub,Adaralan,Watsup? lol>

[StableKobold]

Greensteel and TRing are easy buttons. Maybe not n00b easy buttons, but easy buttons nonetheless.

Greensteel-Agree.It`s easy to farm,Require 1 pack,And used by any newb.
Tho-If you ask me,The fastest ways are just creating a naked caster.Get maxi,Empower,Toughtness,And at level 8 my alt named Spellmastery killing easily level 14 monks<Bun,Shub,Adaralan,Watsup? lol-I even dont have empower>

[Kmnh]

I used to think "metagaming and knowing the quests is the biggest easy button". Then I did the madness packs for the first time on my sorcerer, solo, on elite, without prior knowledge. The only quests that gave me any trouble were In The Flesh (That end fight is awesome, I wasn't ready for that) and Acute Delirium (so many respawning mobs - I easily got through this one by swapping in mass charm. Suggestion would be even better.).

The dots are so broken. Cast one spell. Run away for 12 seconds. Cast the same spell again. At some point, you will win, no risk involved. They are the biggest "noob easy button" in the game.

Quickened self-heals are close behind, but my fleshie sorc doesn't have those :)

[Lleren]

Ess-Now tell me the truth.
Most of the guys who you see and know who are the best are?Sorcerer.
Repair the sentence:The last guy standing?Warfoged wizard.
That awesome healer who is also an amazing tank,High HP DR and SP?FvS-Mostly a warforged.
That dude who saven us all on most of the quests,servove it,And use almsot no gear?
Cleric18/monk2 who tanked sully.
Other example for fine builds would be maybe rogue/monk,Barbarian,Fighter,And almost everything-But,
Those require gear.
All who i just said require potency,GFL,Wizardry and GS wepon<Maybe> and theyre rocking hard time.
Ofc with a better gear they will even do better.
Take for example the PvP arenas.
Arcane rule there.
Rest my case.

DDO is not balanced towards PvP. It is an addon that gets nearly no attention.

Many melee's only need Heavy Fort, some Hitpoint/Con gear, and a decent weapon to be "Epic Ready". Rogues add Trapskill gear for some quests. Ones with Tactics likely want something to add to those, possibly including a specific belt from the challenges.

[StableKobold]

Not bad!Dots,Warfoges,Spellcasters,Greensteel so far.+1 ; )

[StableKobold]

DDO is not balanced towards PvP. It is an addon that gets nearly no attention.

Many melee's only need Heavy Fort, some Hitpoint/Con gear, and a decent weapon to be "Epic Ready". Rogues add Trapskill gear for some quests. Ones with Tactics likely want something to add to those, possibly including a specific belt from the challenges.

Sorcerer warfoge 20 holding 1 potency VI heavy mace,Nothing else,Fire savent,Heat death,Or air savent,Trip immune,Against barb 20 horc with 800 HP<Which is quite high> holding +5 greatsword.I know who wins.Chain lighting/Heat death is above 1k demage avrage,Empowered and maxied.Yea it is non balanced,Tho,This guy who i just spoke of<Sorcy> Can solo most of the quests in vale except shroud,Sully,And more,While the barb i spoke of wont do that good.

[Ugumagre]

Ultimate easy button:

Wining the lottery and making people to play for you for 6$ an hour. YEAH!!

[MRMechMan]

Sigh...here we go again.

Perhaps change your moniker to UnstableKobold.

Warforged AM>>fleshie AM (self healing is king. going fleshie AM is a poor choice)
Warforged PM<fleshie PM (same self healing, fleshies get better DCs, possibly extra feat, same immunities)
Warforged sorc>fleshie sorc (generally, but have seem some amazing fleshie sorcs...more often though are dung)
Warforged melee<<<fleshie melee (reasons below)
Warforged divine<fleshie divine (reasons below)

So for sorc and wiz AM, wf are better. 1 and a half classes? Yea...really overpowered.

Warforged melee are one of the worst races to pick at endgame. Probably the worst actually. PA enhancements are expensive and to-hit matters a lot for most builds too. Extra con with ***** healing amp is not useful. Brute fighting is silly...at the hardest difficulties scroll healing is important, and wf just can't really be scroll healed well. Horc trump warforged completely and utterly. All the benefit at endgame and better amp. Human even moreso..extra feat, huge healing amp and damage boost.

Halfelf dillys and damage boost. Even halfling and dwarf are better choices. When it's a mass healing situation, you pretty much need 10%/20%/30% (ie, gloves of the claw) amp or heals only hit you for 250-300 even with empower healing. ~370-400 with 10% and 20%. So warforged melee are utterly tied at the hip to 30% amp, and there is only ONE non-weapon item with that ability. It's shards have low drop rates (115 runs of deeps to get my first) and it's scrolls are expensive (for good reason). Immunities mean next to nothing at endgame-ELOB kiting is about all the benefit there is.

Fleshie fvs are straight up better than wf fvs, and that is as someone who's main is a wf fvs. The extra con is negligable. Fleshie fvs can still buff to 900+ hp (yes I have seen this) If you have an ESoS maybe melee wf fvs viable but other than that, the melee damage is mediocre. The -2 wis means that casting at a high level is difficult. The -amp means you can't really tank as heal scrolls hit you for 100-150, where they hit fleshie fvs tanks for upwards of 350-400+. Fleshie clerics are better than wf clerics...even more so as the aura is very amp dependent. Healing amp is a huge part of this game and WF just get left in the dust.

Is it any suprise the classes that are standing last are the ones that can self heal? Melee have a few good options for self healing, they just never seem to take advantage of them.

I play WF cause they are freaking bada$$, not because they are the strongest race.

[Freeman]

Experience and Knowledge - DDO's Easy Buttons.

This is all it really comes down to. My wife and I recently leveled up a pair of first life characters. We had an elite streak going from level 4(Vet status) until we capped at 20. Our equipment was usually whatever we could scrounge, and nothing special. However, we literally blew through virtually all the quests we had to run to get to 20. It wasn't about build(We were both fairly normal pure classes) or equipment(fairly standard stuff we picked up as we went, with a few exceptions from BtA items). We just knew what we were doing. That's all it really takes.

[Viisari]

1)Warfoge arcane/Maybe +evasion


Human/drow PM is equal or better, wizards have no use for evasion.


2)Artificer warfoge.

I haven't really played around with arties yet, but I do see plenty of fleshie ones running around too.


3)Favored soul warfoge.

Human evoker is much, much more powerful than any wf fvs you can conjure up.


1)Warfoge<Ftw>

Only if they're arcane casters, if they're melees or divines they offer little to no benefit over other races while having a *huge* penalty to their healing amp.


Why warfoges are so Overpowered?

They're not. If anything they're kinda gimped atm if compared to humans, helfs and horcs.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I tried to read the OP but it all blurs together due to utter lack of anything even vaguely resembling proper English. Please try to type more grammatically correct sentences.

[donblas]

Exploits are the biggest noob easy buttons, at least for high level noobs.

[StableKobold]

Edt:HORRIBLE grammer.Sorry guys ;)
Sorry,Sorry,I`m tired at 1 am,Thats aint wrong aint it?I`m here just for staying awake ; )
nobody said warfoges are the best RACE.I said theyre the best soloers.
Warfoge FvS is a great tanker and healer.With all the recpect for fleshies,And i have some,When you run out of SP your tanking ability is what metters-Warforged wins. Count the fact that i have about as much SP as you do,And i can yet heal myself with 1 heal<Even tho low heal amp,I take healers friend,DT,Etc.etc.>-I wont say there are no benefits for warfoge over fleshy FvS.
Viisari:
Firstly,PMs are great.Tho- Yet If you want to solo stuffs,You shall have some defense.Sully is FAR easiyer to play with evasion feat.and if you can sometimes even melee it<Korsat can tell you>,As a PM warfoge<O.O>,Thats a sighn you are a great soloer.
In addition,Arti fleshlings have lower repair amp then non fleshlings,And can not use any scrolls at all with full heal amp as reconstruct scrolls we use.Because of those reasons,Warforged can also selfheal with reconstruct far better then fleshlings.Fleshys are better maybe as trappers,Maybe because they can get healed from a healer,But sorry-Arti soloer is yet warforged.
I`m not sure about that third quote you putted there.After you run out of SP,Which you shall be prepered for-Well-You are in trouble.As i said before,Warfoge wins in those cases.Either ways,About FvS warfoge i have afew disadvantages.So yea,It`s a bit of troublish,But surely noteable. I also assume that there will come some guy among the forums that will write up about why FvS warforged is better,either ways,I dont have the power or the time to describe ^^
Well,About the 4th quote:
They maybe got 35% less heal amp<Most of guys i met take at least healer friend I>,Tho,They can be healed by arcanes,They are cursed-Wound-Immune<Reconstruct ftw>, And they got amazing HP to cover the fact they cant be healed so fast sometimes,They also got DR<I saw a dr build which shocked me not long ago,Forgot the link,But he had above 70/-......>,And they can take pots just as everybody else.Trust me they do good.To be honest About the last one,i`m not sure.I said something about arcanes b4.Well,there is NOTHING that can fight the warfoge arcane soloer.Nothing,Dont even try.As well as the DPS-My sorcy hits 1.2k per chain,Not empowered,it costs to him 37 SP,He got 3011-And pots,Clickeys,Etc...Not counting ear dweller,Etc. etc.....

Mech-Is there any stable kobold? ; )
So,Arcane warfoges,Divine<Everything here> are a bit OP as soloers.Any more examples?
Oh oh,And is there anybody who is yet sane?
But,WHO SAID INSANE IS WRONG?!
YARRRRRRK!

[MRMechMan]

Terrible.


Take a lap.

[Viisari]

I said theyre the best soloers.

Wrong again.

Reading any further than that is also horribly painful for me, your posts could use some better grammar and spelling.


Trust me they do good.

My main melee toon was a wf for first three of his lives. After going horc and human I can tell you that warforged offer *nothing* of any considerable benefit over human or horc melees. Nothing.

And no, they're not immune to healing curse, they can't be healed if they have it. They can be reconstructed, but nobody on Thelanis does that with their tanks because it's horribly inefficient when compared to a high healing amp fleshie.

[StableKobold]

Terrible.


Take a lap.

Sorry,I know.Tryed to make it readable.Hope it`s easier to understand now.
By the way,Guess what i saw not long ago:

Bow down before warforged, the master race.
lol.you know it`s true ; )

[MRMechMan]

It wasn't the grammar or the spacing or the weird symbols, although those did make it incredibly frustrating and difficult to read.

It was the content.

You are either lying or straight up WRONG about 95% of what you have posted.

70/- DR? Screenshot please!

[StableKobold]

It wasn't the grammar or the spacing or the weird symbols, although those did make it incredibly frustrating and difficult to read.

It was the content.

You are either lying or straight up WRONG about 95% of what you have posted.

70/- DR? Screenshot please!

Look for Grisdaiili around Argonessen server.Ask him for one.It`s not me,It`s a friend-Tho,It was hard to beliave for me first as well.I think there is a post of a screenshot around Fellowship of the Shrine site-Not sure about it,Look for it at Myfastforum.Com

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

I think reading a selection of build and advice posts that eventually points one to the wiki is the New Player Easy button.

Noobs can not benefit from any easy button, ever.

I agree.

I'm new to this game (since last October), and I've been learning a LOT by reading the Wiki. Didn't find a rare encounter ? Wiki has it !

I'd add Cannith Crafting, too.


But my greatest grudge about this discussion here is the scorn older and more experienced players look upon Newbies. It is almost as if a Porsche driver looks at an Opel driver (Opel is a european daughter company of GM, constantly troubled by ... err ... "wrong" management decisions).

I very often read this scorn here. Often not openly. Sometimes between the lines.
It is the exact same behaviour adults have regarding teenanger : The older, more experienced DDO players just seem to forget how they had been Newbies once. Their memory becomes distorted and blurred. They only remember only parts of their past "Newbie life", if ever (how long is DDO here now ? 6 years ? - that's quite a long time for remembering events within a game).

I do remember almost everything. And I have written it down, elsewhere. I do remember how difficult things were - and this is why I personally look at some sort of respect to everyone who manages it into the Harbour (from Korthos Island, I mean).

My ranger had died too many times. He (or rather me, as his role-player) often used techniques I'm about to laugh about nowadays. I was incompetent. Yes. I was a Noob. Yes. I died because I didn't know how to handle situation. I didn't even know about monster resistances, and monster weaknesses. All I did was to barely survive. Once I came to the Harbour, a whole new world opened up to me.

And still - I was still incompetent. I got struck and weakened so much I died I think 2 times on "Redfang The Unruled". I didn't know about resistances. Against poinson, for example. I didn't know about willpower. I didn't know how to resist spells. I didn't even know what all of these feats were going to chose when I had selected them. I had to learn.

Now, myriads of deaths later, I'm more competent. I still do fail. But I remember the road. I remember every bit of my failures. And I learn of them.

And this is why I just can't stand this scorn. It's like ... someone who went all the way up to become a millionaire suddenly decided to - poof! - forget all of his youth. And the struggle on the way up. It just disappears, like ... a cut through the brain.

And this is - in my opinion - what distinguishes people in (real-world) charity organizations from those who are at the top but decide not to help others : Those in charity organizations REMEMBER the struggle. They keep it in their hearts so that they are driven by mercy. They truly believe that EVERYONE needs a chance.

Even Newbies.

[Havok.cry]

Only easy button is having freinds you trust. If you have that, everything else falls into place.

[NaturalHazard]

Wrong again.

And no, they're not immune to healing curse, they can't be healed if they have it. They can be reconstructed, but nobody on Thelanis does that with their tanks because it's horribly inefficient when compared to a high healing amp fleshie.

And if hes talking about tanking suulo in vod and TOD a AC flesh tank is much easyier to keep healed than a 0 AC warforged tank. In difficulties of hard-elite VOD ive seen arcanes struggle to keep a 0 AC warforged tank up even drinking pots. I get my ranger/monk to do it and he doesnt even need healing the clerics aura is enough.

[Domfig]

The thing with easy buttons is that no one forces you to use them and make the game too easy for yourself.
Ship buffs making it easy ... don't take them.
Crafted Greensteel with a ML of 12 making all quests from 12 -20 too easy... don't use it or even more shocking don't craft it.
TRing making your DC's so high you are like unto a living God.... don't do it....
Buying store mana pots and rez cakes so you never fail to complete a quest.. well you see my point.
Please don't moan about easy buttons if you are using them! Memnir got it right with his observation because its the only button you can't just turn off. Once you know where traps spawn, mobs cluster and the tactics for situations the quests do become a lot easier even on a first life untwinked con dumped flavour build. Lol if Turbine could employ about triple its staff it could have every quest in the game spawn from one of three random instances a la shadow crypt so you could never be sure exactly where the trap is or the mobs cluster..
Anyway went off on a tangent, blame my age.

TL;DR
Don't use an easy button then moan about easy buttons.
I'm olderer then dirt.

[Lleren]

Even Newbies.

Newbie does not equal Noob.
Newbie is older then the Internet, sort of like dirt. Noob is only as old as Online Gaming, about early Everquest Era, so back when dinosaurs where still roaming.

I use New Player if I want to be positive. Newbie started out as a gentle warning that the person did not know our cultural mores/norms to a fellow in the culture. Noob started out as a form of filter bypassing insult.

Noobs well, its sort of their calling to have been playing forever, to still not know anything, and to get really upset over gaming.

[NaturalHazard]

Is this yet another thread crying and wailing that warforged divine/and arcane casters need to be nerfed?

Funny thing is the most powerful divine and arcane casters I know are not warforged but flesh.

Most powerful sorc I know, is a human, does the works CC, Instant kills and aoe damage and my spellsinger can regen her sp for more CC, more instant kills and more aoe, can even dot tank the bosses while I scroll heal. In epic devils assault we pretty much twiddle our thumbs while she practically solo's most of it.

Most powerful cleric's? Yep none are warforged in fact I think ive only run into 1-2 warforged clerics while ive been playing.

Most poweful favoured souls sorry they are human, one in our guild solo's epic DA and when we do epic DA even the pale master complains he can't get any kills before the favoured soul fricken kills everything. Ive also seen these human favoured souls dot tanking and they where much much easyier to scroll heal over the warforged tanks ive had to scroll heal.

Wizards I do know some very powerful AM warforged wizards but they are multiple tred geared to the hilt. For first lifers in epics I see PM human/helf/ and even *gasp* that most gimp of all races elves do generally better than warforged esp in the instant kills department. Haha and in lich form often the pms have had as much hp as the first lifer wf am's or even more.

[Dartwick]

Anyone who doesnt think warfaorged arcane is an easy button has an agenda(or they are a really really bad player.)

[Viisari]

Anyone who doesnt think warfaorged arcane is an easy button has an agenda(or they are a really really bad player.)

Oh it's an easy button alright, but so is a palemaster and any divine caster.

Warforged are not overpowered when compared to other options available to casters, it's that casters in general are overpowered when compared to melees.

And there are only few if any situations where a warforged would make for a better melee character than a fleshie.

[Vint]

Experience and Knowledge - DDO's Easy Buttons.

Perfect. I see many, many, many, many WF, Divine, Arcanes that have not a clue.

[Vint]

Anyone who doesnt think warfaorged arcane is an easy button has an agenda(or they are a really really bad player.)

Can you solo Sins on a melee toon? I can. Does this make the whole fighter class OP, or is it the skills that the actual player has?

[Dartwick]

Can you solo Sins on a melee toon? I can. Does this make the whole fighter class OP, or is it the skills that the actual player has?


There are specific melee builds, gear intensive usually requiring multiple lives that effectively combine killing power and survivability. But the same can be said of casters.

On the other hand its simple to make an easy button caster. That can can destroy a melee in the large majority of content.

[valharan01]

Sorry,Let me"Translate it". =P
I have 2 questions.
Firstly,What you think is the ddo's Noob easy button?
And the second,Is-Why warfoges are so Overpowered?

I am guessing punctuation is not your first language?

[NaturalHazard]

There are specific melee builds, gear intensive usually requiring multiple lives that effectively combine killing power and survivability. But the same can be said of casters.

On the other hand its simple to make an easy button caster. That can can destroy a melee in the large majority of content.

mine doesnt have multiple lives and was doing it earlier without most of the gear he has now.

[Lonnbeimnech]

It's not so much that WF is an easy button, or even WF caster is an easy button. It's the ability to heal yourself more than the damage you take, while dealing more damage than the enemy can heal. This can be done in many ways by many builds, some more easily than others. It's also not noob friendly.

About WF artis, most of them carry reconstruct scrolls because an arties sp pool isn't that big. This is on a class with full umd, so an 8 cha fleshy can get a no fail heal scroll with no special umd gear. The WF's self healing is only slightly better than a fleshies because of access to an emergency quickened recon, assuming he took the feat. He will mostly be healing with scrolls and saving his sp for blade barriers, just as the fleshy would.

You can also get a no fail heal scroll on a fleshy sorc, without swapping gear, though it will take a bit of work.

The most impressive builds I've seen have been human, bonus feat + completionist work well together. And also Half elf mutliclasses with dilatant allowing for some very powerful combinations.

[FengXian]

How did this get to 3 pages again?