Acrobat/Wizard thoughts

[themetalhead13]

So I'm getting ready to TR for the first time, and I'm wondering what to do. First life was a mechanic, so my thought was to embrace the past life feat as much as possible in the new multi-class build I'm considering. It's kind of a battle-mage idea:

Drow, 30 point build

Starting stats:

10 STR
16 DEX
14 CON
18 INT
10 WIS
10 CHA

Take first level as a Rogue, second level as a fighter, third as a wizard. Then bounce back and forth between rogue and wizard until I've got 7 levels as a rogue; choose acrobat prestige (only tier one) and at level 20 have 12 levels of wizard. All stats would go to Jump, Tumble, Balance, Hide and Move Silently. Use quicken spell metamagic feat so I don't need concentration and can buff/immobilize enemies very quickly.

For level 20, here's a list of the feats I would have. Focusing on quarterstaff, obviously, and sneak attack as the main source of damage:

Dodge
Eschew Materials
Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Improved Mental Toughness
Lightning Reflexes
Mental Toughness
Mobility
Power Critical
Quicken Spell
Spring Attack
Toughness
Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons

List of enhancements (last number is the level I take the enhancement at):

Rogue Faster Sneaking I, 1,
Rogue Sneak Attack Training I, 1,
Improved Balance I, 1,
Improved Tumble I, 1,
Rogue Haste Boost I, 2,
Elven Arcane Fluidity I, 2,
Elven Enchantment Resistance I, 2,
Fighter Critical Accuracy I, 2,
Elven Dexterity I, 3,
Racial Toughness I, 3,
Fighter Toughness I, 3,
Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I, 4,
Wizard Energy of the Scholar I, 4,
Rogue Dexterity I, 4,
Wizard Improved Quickening I, 5,
Wizard Intelligence I, 5,
Racial Toughness II, 6,
Elven Arcane Fluidity II, 7,
Rogue Haste Boost II, 8,
Elven Dexterity II, 8,
Improved Balance II, 8,
Improved Tumble II, 8,
Rogue Sneak Attack Training II, 9,
Rogue Thief-Acrobat I, 10,
Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II, 10,
Rogue Dexterity II, 11,
Rogue Sneak Attack Training III, 12,
Wizard Spell Penetration I, 13,
Wizard Energy of the Scholar II, 13,
Wizard Improved Quickening II, 14,
Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I, 15,
Wizard Intelligence II, 15,
Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II, 16,
Rogue Faster Sneaking II, 16,
Wizard Energy of the Scholar III, 17,
Wizard Improved Quickening III, 20,
Wizard Subtle Spellcasting I, 20,
Wizard Intelligence III, 20,

Most of the spells would be boosts, like Shield, Nightshield, Haste, Prot Elem, Fox's Cunning, Cat's Grace, and a few offensive, immobilizing spells like Cyclone blast, chain lightning, hold monster, slow... that way sneak attack works with ease against enemies that are stunned/held/slowed. The idea for the build is to be a very fast attacker; immobilize enemies and sneak attack with a staff while hasted. AC would be around 40 with "decent" gear. I plan on +2 tomes and +6 to all stats gear, with all stat points going to INT.

What's the verdict?

[AMDarkwolf]

prob gonna hate me but...

.. casters should go pure, or at LEAST 18 levels. Your just gimping yourself(HEAVILY) to have a lackluster ability in combat, and EVEN MORE so, since u 'dumped' str, your gonna have a HELL of a time meleeing ANYTHING.


Acrobat is oly worth it if u get tier II. So 12-13 lvs of rog. Not at ALL worth it, on ANY level, for a caster.

My only advice, i know lots do it, and Im sorry its not unique, but 18-20 levels of caster if u want to be caster. If not drop the idea now and make a 'real' build.


(Im not elitist at all, but honestly, i'd never take you on any 'real' quest with that build. Not trying to be mean or trolly, just trying to speak the facts)

Edit, not only that, with that few wiz levels, not a single hold/mez ability u would cast would land on anything higher than casual mobs at level.

I strongly suggest that you try a alternate build idea, go melee, or try fvs. Remember too that even a 'pure wiz' can melee with decent ability up to lv 10 or so(Anyone can) with masters touch, an axe, and this is without gimping himself so severely.

[Failedlegend]

Ignore Darkwolf...there is going to be some changes that need to be made to get this to work but Gishes are not impossible...take my bone knight for example.

- First dump Int the only attack spells your going to use will be the no save/save for half anyways and your buffs don't Int only take enough for easy access to spells

- You don't need 10 in every stat there's little to no benefit to it

- Your Best bet is at least 16+Str 12+Dex 14+Con 8+Int (don't have time to calculate actual numbers right now)

- Don't go drow there's little to no benefit to it for this build Warforged or Half-Orc is probably best...Human and Dwarf are good too

- The following feats are useless:
Dodge
Eschew Materials
Improved Mental Toughness
Lightning Reflexes
Power Critical
Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons

These ones are meh but as you'll be dancing in firewalls it's not useless but it does require 3 feats...I'll try to fit it in

Mobility
Spring Attack


- Feats you NEED

Extend (Absolutely required for a Palemaster)
Maximize & Empower (Your going to love your DoT Spells)


- Feats you SHOULD take if you can fit it

THF, ITHF, GTHF, PA

I've got to start work now but I'll add more advice later..a little on my breaks and much more once I get home and can confirm actual numbers etc.

[Failedlegend]

My Bone Knight is currently Lvl 13 and I mostly run quests on Hard and sometimes elite if the quest has good XP and the only problem I have is on elite is not being able to run Combat Expertise 100% of the time as I miss sometimes on High AC mobs and thats only because my Equipment has fallen WAY behind once I upgrade it should fix that issue and since the OPs build is a TR he probably has a decent supply of tomes and equipment whereas my Bone Knight is quite poor since he's not on my main server

I don't expect him to ever do Epics but outside of that he works just fine

If built well the OP should be just fine.

[Failedlegend]

Ok here's two possible builds..one Human, one Half-Orc

Lawful Neutral Human Wiz12/Rogue7/Monk1 PM2/Acro1




Str 18 (Lvl ups here)
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 12 (+2 Tome at 7)

Level Order: Rogue 1, Monk 2, Rogue 3-7, Wiz 8 - 19, Rogue 20


Feats

Normal

H SF:UMD
1 THF
3 Stunning Blow
6 Power Attack
9 Maximize
12 ITHF
15 IC: Bludgeoning
18 GSF: Necro

Note: Use Archmage for bonus SP until PM2/Wraith is avail

Monk

2 Toughness

Note: Your pretty much always going to be in Fire stance since -2 Wis is meaningless but +2 Str is always good

Wiz

8 Extend
12 SF: Necro
17 Mental Toughness

Skills:



Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)


Level 2 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 3 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 4 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+3)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 5 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 7 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 8 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 9 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 10 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 11 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 13 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 16 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 19 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+5)
Skill: Search (+5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)




Lawful Neutral Half-Orc Wiz12/Rogue7/Monk1 PM2/Acro1



Str 20 (Lvl ups here)
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 12 (+2 Tome at 7)

Level Order: Rogue 1, Monk 2, Rogue 3-7, Wiz 8 - 19, Rogue 20

Skills: Concentration & UMD (Any extra points in OL & Balance)


Feats

Normal

1 THF
3 Stunning Blow
6 Power Attack
9 Maximize
12 ITHF
15 IC: Bludgeoning
18 GSF: Necro

Note: Use Archmage for bonus SP until PM2/Wraith is availible

Monk

2 Toughness

Note: Your pretty much always going to be in Fire stance since -2 Wis is meaningless but +2 Str is always good

Wiz

8 Extend
12 SF: Necro
17 Mental Toughness

[themetalhead13]

Okay, thanks for the input and advice. I'll try it in Character Gen and see which one works best for me!

[thwart]

I toyed with this idea a while ago. I concluded that Bard was a better fit than wizard. You get the buffs you are looking for, plus if you take warchanter you can improve your quarterstaff ability. With that said, I don't play that character either. My acrobat is on a 13 rogue/7fighter track.

[ArcaneMelee]

...

Most of the spells would be boosts, like Shield, Nightshield, Haste, Prot Elem, Fox's Cunning, Cat's Grace, and a few offensive, immobilizing spells like Cyclone blast, chain lightning, hold monster, slow... that way sneak attack works with ease against enemies that are stunned/held/slowed. The idea for the build is to be a very fast attacker; immobilize enemies and sneak attack with a staff while hasted. AC would be around 40 with "decent" gear. I plan on +2 tomes and +6 to all stats gear, with all stat points going to INT.

What's the verdict?

I agree with Darkwolf (except for not accepting such a build in my group :D). If you want to land spells that give you auto-SA, you want 17+ Wiz, max Int, and Heighten. You will get better SA damage with only 1d6 + 11 (+3 Enhancement and +8 gear), as with only 12 levels of Wiz you won't be able to land the spells (and aren't likely to be in a party to not have aggro).

Another alternative is to go pure rogue Acrobat (immune to slippery surfaces) and UMD Sleet Storm scrolls for auto-SA with all 10d6 + 20 (+12 Enhancement + 8 gear).

Splitting the levels will only result in less SA goodness.

If you do go with such a deep splash on a wizard, I recommend Warforged over PM2. Better self-healing options, IMHO.

[themetalhead13]

So I ran some suggestions through Character Gen, and I realized that I would much rather go pure acrobat or acrobat/fighter (after doing the math on all the spells). One last thought, and probably a very stupid one at that, but since the only rogue I've played is a mechanic I feel that the acrobat's Disable Device/Search/Spot skills are VERY low. Since I currently don't have to worry about trap monkeys in my party, my concern is that people will assume that just because I'm a rogue, I'll be able to trap. But to get the most benefits from an acrobat, Disable Device and such will have to suffer quite substantially, at least compared to my mechanic. Suggestions?

[thwart]

So I ran some suggestions through Character Gen, and I realized that I would much rather go pure acrobat or acrobat/fighter (after doing the math on all the spells). One last thought, and probably a very stupid one at that, but since the only rogue I've played is a mechanic I feel that the acrobat's Disable Device/Search/Spot skills are VERY low. Since I currently don't have to worry about trap monkeys in my party, my concern is that people will assume that just because I'm a rogue, I'll be able to trap. But to get the most benefits from an acrobat, Disable Device and such will have to suffer quite substantially, at least compared to my mechanic. Suggestions?

Get the best gear you can get for your particular level. I have not had any trouble with getting traps.

[Failedlegend]

Get the best gear you can get for your particular level. I have not had any trouble with getting traps.

Agreed if a Wiz18/Rogue2 can do it a pure acrobat will be more than fine

[LordTigerDawn]

I tried this once upon a time. Was a WF not drow. Toon was really really squishy as a WF. Going Drow would just make you the awesome 90 hp wonder at lvl 20 and spend most of your time as a stone in someones backpack.

Worse yet... you could not self heal unless you are also going necro....

I could see wiz 12/rogue 7/1 barb/fighter/monk - but I would not recommend it.

[Hikup]

Agreed if a Wiz18/Rogue2 can do it a pure acrobat will be more than fine

Except search and dd are int based and that is usually a max int split. Not saying an acrobat can't do traps, just that build does have an advantage