Revised Godhand Build (12 Monk/8 Fighter - 32 Point)

[Crayu]

The New Godhand - 12 Monk/8 Fighter


The New Godhand?
---------------------------
Hold up, hold up! I know some of you may already be looking down upon this, and question me with things such as,"What gives you the right to edit this build?!" Just hear me out.

So, after seeing several friends of mine create a Godhand build, I started to look at it myself. I saw how old the build was, and since there have been many beneficial updates to monks since then, I thought that a revision of the build would be better for this update.

The general purpose of the build still remains the same. It is still capable of everything else it was capable of originally. There's just some differences that will add to its dps (and therefore hate tanking ability), in order to accomodate Touch of Deaths, improved evasion, ninja spy II (total 3d6 SA), tier 3 stances and more unarmed damage!

For reference, I'll post the original Godhand build.
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=228369


Thoughts
---------------------------
Warforged are a great race, due to all of their immunities (sleep, nausea, poison, disease, paralysis, fatigue, energy drain, etc.) They get a line of power attack enhancements, toughness IV enhancements, tactics, etc. Warforged also get a line of hate-increasing enhancements, which will be nice.

Monks and Kensei are a great combination also, due to the synergy that these two components have.

The benefits from Kensei I are amazing, and can serve great purpose for a monk (providing more to-hit, damage, crit damage, stun/sunder/trip DC's, ki gain from crit/meditation, and haste boosts)!

With the amount of feats that one is allowed to take because of the class orientation will allow one to take several toughness feats, improved sunder (which is pretty awesome now), etc.

AC will be a moot point for this build, because usually WF is not a great race for building AC tanks (in my opinion, anyway) and dps is more important for the main goal for this.

Heal amp will not be an issue for this build. With dedication to gear, one can easily pass 100% and into a nicer range to be tanking. There's also the benefit of being WF, where one can be repaired by arcanes, thus doubling the amount of people who can heal you.


Why this build for DPS/Tanking?
---------------------------


Awesome benefits to this?:

-Handwraps (Attack speed, unarmed damage [2d6 : 2d8 with past life], ToD rings, full STR bonus offhand, etc.)
-Tactics DC
-Tier 3 Stances
-Full heal amp from Divines/Arcanes
-High to-hit
-Improved evasion
-High HP and saves
-Fast movement
-ABUNDANT STEP!
-Touch of Death (250~1000+ per use, save/not saved, double striked, etc.)
-Warforged Immunities
-Lots of Hate!
-feats
-Haste boost


Disclaimer
---------------------------
This build will require a certain amount of tomes, gear and therefore dedication (like the original Godhand).


The Build
---------------------------
Level 20 Lawful Neutral Warforged Male
(12 Monk/8 Fighter)

32 PT.
STR - [18]
DEX - [15]
CON - [17]
INT - [8]
WIS - [6]
CHA - [6]

28 PT. : Add 1 CON, take away 2 STR
34 PT. : Add 2 points to WIS
36 PT. : Add 4 points to WIS

This is a 32 PT based build, however past lives (such as monk + pally) could be very useful for the purpose of this build.
Nice past lives to have are also barbarian (10 hp per life), fighter (+1 to hit), etc.


Unbuffed Stats
---------------------------

STR [40] - 18 base + 5 level + 2 tome + 3 exceptional + 6 item + 2 fighter enhancements + 1 litany + 3 profane (echrono set)
DEX [24] - 15 base + 2 tome + 6 item + 1 litany
CON [30] - 17 base + 2 tome + 6 item + 3 exceptional + 1 litany + 1 warforged constitution
INT [/]
WIS [/]
CHA [/]


Buffed Stats
---------------------------

STR [55] - 40 unbuffed + 3 stance (fire for dps mode) + 2 ship + 2 rage spell + 6 titan's grip (clicky) + 2 yugo (if you need to drink it)
CON [39] - 30 unbuffed + 2 ship + 2 rage spell + 2 yugo + 3 stance (earth for tank mode)


Tactic DC's
---------------------------
Stunning Blow : 10 base + 22 mod + 10 stunning weapon + 1 kensei I = 43
Improved Sunder : 14 base + 22 mod + 10 shatter weapon + 1 kensei I = 47


Feats / Level Progression
----------------------------

1 Monk - TWF, Toughness
2 Monk - Dodge
3 Fighter - Weapon Focus : Bludgeon, Stunning Blow
4 Monk - Toughness
5 Monk
6 Fighter - Toughness (Disciple of the Fist - if you have it), Improved Sunder
7 Monk
8 Monk - Power Attack
9 Fighter - ITWF
10 Monk
11 Monk
12 Monk - Improved Crit : Bludgeon
13 Fighter - GTWF
14 Fighter
15 Fighter - Greater Weapon Focus : Bludgeon, Weapon Specialization : Bludgeon
16 Monk
17 Monk
18 Monk - Toughness (Paladin Past Life - if you have it)
19 Fighter
20 Fighter - Greater Weapon Specialization : Bludgeon


Enhancements
---------------------------
Haven't worked this out yet, however in the build, the following is mentioned.

Kensei I (and all the prerequisites)
Ninja Spy II (and all the prerequisites)
Haste Boost
Racial toughness II
Fighter toughness II
Fighter Strength II
Warforged Constitution I
Touch of Death (and all the prerequisites)
Fists of Iron
T2 + T3 Fire stance
T2 + T3 Earth stance
Healers Friend I
Monk Healing Amp I


HP Breakdown
---------------------------
180 [unbuffed con mod]
80 [Fighter]
96 [Monk]
92 [Toughness feats]
40 [Fighter Toughness II, Racial Toughness II]
20 [Heroic Durability]
10 [Draconic Vitality]
30 [GFL]
20 [Toughness Slotted]
45 [GS Item +45 hp]
=====
630 standing unbuffed
100
=====
730 standing buffed
20 [yugo secret effect]
=====
750 more buffs
75 [artificer buff! why not? :P]
=====
825 arty +10% HP buff!


[b] Healing Amp
--------------------------
Well you have all this HP. Now, your OTHER defense!

.50 base -> .65 base Healers Friend I.

.65 base x 1.1 DT Rune x 1.1 monk heal amp 1 x 1.2 DT Rune x 1.3 eclaw gloves x 1.25 jidz-tetka bracers (fire stance) = about 153% healing amp

1.53 hamp x 1.1 ship = 163%~ healing amp



Saves
--------------------------
6/2/2 [Fighter Levels]
8/8/8 [Monk Levels]
5/5/5 [Resistance]
4/4/4 [Greater Heroism]
2/2/2 [Kensai]
1/1/1 [Litany]
1/1/1 [Good Luck]
2/2/2 [Walk of the Sun]
4/4/4 [Holy Aura]
14/7/wis mod [Stats]
==============
47/36/29 + wis mod


Equipment
--------------------------

Handwraps : +5 Holy Silver-Threaded Wraps of GEOB (Large Aug slotted with +3 attack if possible), construct beaters, undead beaters
Docent : Dragontouched Docent (10% Heal Amp, 20% Heal Amp, xxx up to you), Red dragon scale docent if possible
Goggle : +45 Greensteel HP Item, with Epic Goggles of Time Sensing swap for Haste
Glove : Epic Gloves of the Claw
Bracer : Epic Jidz-Tetka Bracers (slot wis +6) (slot any other missing stat) or Epic Bracers of the Claw (depends on your comfortable on tanking or not without the extra threat)
Trinket: Litany
Belt : Knosts Belt
Necklace: Shintao Cord
Helmet : Epic Helm of Frost (slot dex)
Cloak : Epic Envenomed Cloak (Toughness Slotted)
Boots : Epic Boots of Corrosion (Heavy Fort Slotted) (slot +1 exceptional con)
Ring 1 : Kyosho's Ring (+2 exceptional Strength) (Holy Burst)
Ring 2 : Encrusted Ring (+2 exceptional constitution) (Shocking Burst)


Closing Words
--------------------------
So, that ends that. Let me know if you catch anything that is inconsistent, I compiled this pretty quickly.

Suggestions/Comments are welcome, malicious comments aren't.

Also : I modified this because of the original outdated build. The creator left so I decided to tackle it for U13.

[Memek]

Forged for melee is a mistake in today's meta game. Build has low attack bonus so WF PA is problematic. Build lacks Improved Sunder and Wisdom. It doesnt seem to be Silver Flame capable, and cant even use scrolls.

It chooses Stunning Blow but not Fist which fits into the picture with completely dumping WIS but leaves me wondering Why? SF is far better than SB.

HOrc for attack bonus or HElf for pretty much everything else will work better, given that you are willing to grab a few Visors from Tanglefoot, rendering WF immunities moot for the most part.

12 Monk/ 8 Fighter is an extremely strong melee build (lets be honest, the strongest) (until the enhancement change f***s it), but not like this.

[voxson5]

Seems silly without stunning fist, the cooldown on stunning blow is annoyingly long

Querry - swap Kensai for Stalwart, and drop STR to 16 & up WIS to 12 would be benefitial. Same STR, Moar CON, Hp, higher ToD DC, similar stunning blow DC? (maybe -1), workable AC

*edit *

Querry 2 - take 1 rogue level so you can take hamstring, fudge stats for 11 starting INT so you can take combat expertise, (maybe even trapskills, but at least UMD)
(Yeah I know, WF can't get as high an AC with current gear layouts (Satereon(sp?) comes close), but for leveling? pure gold)

*edit 2*

Earth 3 would be moar DPS, moar Hp, moar hate, moar AC - but less ki buildup, less healing amp

[Crayu]

Forged for melee is a mistake in today's meta game. Build has low attack bonus so WF PA is problematic. Build lacks Improved Sunder and Wisdom. It doesnt seem to be Silver Flame capable, and cant even use scrolls.

It chooses Stunning Blow but not Fist which fits into the picture with completely dumping WIS but leaves me wondering Why? SF is far better than SB.

HOrc for attack bonus or HElf for pretty much everything else will work better, given that you are willing to grab a few Visors from Tanglefoot, rendering WF immunities moot for the most part.

12 Monk/ 8 Fighter is an extremely strong melee build (lets be honest, the strongest) (until the enhancement change f***s it), but not like this.

In what way is warforged a mistake? This build can muster up a respectable strength score, which will lead to a respectable to-hit after gear is also added (tod rings, litany, wraps). Improved Sunder is included in the build, and the stat requirement to meet silver flame potions can be met with slotting in the Jidz Tet'ka bracers. I didn't mention skill allotment, so putting in UMD can be viable. However, since the main goal is DPS, I do not talk about getting gear for that.

Stunning Blow > Stunning Fist for this type of build.

Since there is a focus in strength (for more damage, to-hit (non finesse build), etc.), that will increase stunning blow. Fire stance also complements strength, and strength is also easier to increase in general.

Stunning Fist DC would equal 10 base + 6 (12/2) + wisdom modifier + 10 wraps = 26 + wis modifier. This is nowhere near what you need for epics and endgame content.

I do believe there is logic in your horc/helf for min/maxing, however Warforged is still viable. The cost would be a reduced con score, 20 less HPs (from enhancements) for a tradeoff of more strength/to-hit/damage (also complementing stunning blow DCs).



Seems silly without stunning fist, the cooldown on stunning blow is annoyingly long

Querry - swap Kensai for Stalwart, and drop STR to 16 & up WIS to 12 would be benefitial. Same STR, Moar CON, Hp, higher ToD DC, similar stunning blow DC? (maybe -1), workable AC

*edit *

Querry 2 - take 1 rogue level so you can take hamstring, fudge stats for 11 starting INT so you can take combat expertise, (maybe even trapskills, but at least UMD)
(Yeah I know, WF can't get as high an ac with current gear layouts (Satereon(sp?) comes close), but for leveling? pure gold)

Annoying without stunning fist? Stunning Blow can get a much higher DC than Stunning Fist. If SB lands but SF doesn't, SB is more useful. This is meant for DPS, and kensei helps with the to-hit/damage and ki generation. That is the synergy between Monk and Kensei. That 16 STR and WIS 12 idea could work.

Stalwart would not be a good idea though. Earth Stance grants you almost the same benefits (minus the extra HP/AC, but AC is moot and the HP can be made moot also). AC is pointless unless it is your main focus.

Rogue level would mean losing Ninja Spy 2 or 1 fighter bonus feat, niether of which I'm willing to do. Hamstring is pointless, and combat expertise is only for AC builds. There's no point here.

[voxson5]

you;re a bit off on your SF calc, 1/2 character level, not monk level (this was changed a few updates ago), so 31 DC with a 10 wisdom using your build *edit 34 with WF tactics, with 12+6+2+2+3+3+1 = 29 WIS (+9) that makes 43, spare hand makes 48. yea, lower than SB, but waaay shorted cooldown - why compromise? take both!)*

No spare hand? It's well worth it.

I guess AC is a mindset, for leveling it is brilliant.. for end game? meh not so much.

Might want to check out what hamstring does... can be very useful in the right situations

[Crayu]

Ah, well the DC would still not be enough to compare to SB.

Hamstring can be alright, however, for dps/hate tanking, I believe it can be skipped.

[Memek]

In what way is warforged a mistake? This build can muster up a respectable strength score, which will lead to a respectable to-hit after gear is also added (tod rings, litany, wraps).
Forged doesnt gain higher Strength than the other races; And overall, the build simply has a low attack bonus for a high-end melee, so this and WF PA will remain a problem. Furthermore, WF takes a for the most part crippling hit to healing amp; Exception is when your defenses are far above anyone elses', but this build doesnt provide that. So, it's a sponge.


Improved Sunder is included in the build, and the stat requirement to meet silver flame potions can be met with slotting in the Jidz Tet'ka bracers. I didn't mention skill allotment, so putting in UMD can be viable.
Alright, i must have missed IS. Slotting Jidz, fair enough, but the item is still sub-optimal and overly grindy (grinding an epic item for basically no gain, no thanks).


However, since the main goal is DPS, I do not talk about getting gear for that.´
Loaded question, but you cant discuss "main goal DPS" while discarding the level split. Because if DPS was the only concern, you'd become a Barbarian or high-tier Kensei or (better) a caster. So DPS cant be the only concern and we need to discuss other issues. Nevermind that Forged is below HOrc (and most likely HElf only regarding Boost not Rogue dilli) regarding DPS.


Stunning Blow > Stunning Fist for this type of build.´
Certainly not. Stuns have a duration of 6 seconds, and Stunning Fist has a cooldown oh exactly 6 seconds (!) while Stunning Blow works on a lame 15 seconds...


Since there is a focus in strength (for more damage, to-hit (non finesse build), etc.), that will increase stunning blow. Fire stance also complements strength
Fire stance is gimp. Since the buff to Earth stance, i can even say it in public.


Stunning Fist DC would equal 10 base + 6 (12/2) + wisdom modifier + 10 wraps = 26 + wis modifier.
Not really, rules have changed since a couple of years ago.


I do believe there is logic in your horc/helf for min/maxing, however Warforged is still viable. The cost would be a reduced con score, 20 less HPs (from enhancements) for a tradeoff of more strength/to-hit/damage (also complementing stunning blow DCs).
Viable is a broad word, but yes, it'll work. You'll have 20 HP more and be worse off in all other regards. If you care that much about 20 HP, you might go Dorf for similar HP and +1 DC and better heal amp.


Annoying without stunning fist? Stunning Blow can get a much higher DC than Stunning Fist. If SB lands but SF doesn't, SB is more useful.
It's unlikely that SB for a WF would reach a higher DC than Fist, and even if it manages to, 6 seconds vs 15 seconds speak a clear tongue. With the Spare Hand, pumping DC isnt as important as it used to be - everyone will reach a workable DC and with a workable DC, 6s is far better than 15s.

[Crayu]

Fire stance is gimp. Since the buff to Earth stance, i can even say it in public.

This is true only for tanking. Else-wise, Fire stance is the more optimal stance.


Forged doesnt gain higher Strength than the other races; And overall, the build simply has a low attack bonus for a high-end melee, so this and WF PA will remain a problem. Furthermore, WF takes a for the most part crippling hit to healing amp; Exception is when your defenses are far above anyone elses', but this build doesnt provide that. So, it's a sponge.

I didn't say WF gain higher strength than the other races, I said it could reach a respectable strength.
For the attack bonus part, I believe around 50 is an acceptable to-hit (say so if I'm wrong).

Let's see.

1d20 + 20 (BAB with flurry of blows) + 5 wraps + 22 mod + Greater Heroism + whatever else you choose to get = d20 + 51 + other mods. Respectable indeed.



Certainly not. Stuns have a duration of 6 seconds, and Stunning Fist has a cooldown oh exactly 6 seconds (!) while Stunning Blow works on a lame 15 seconds...

But Stunning FIST won't be able to land at all with these DC's. Stunning BLOW would only land because it actually has the DC. I was proven wrong by voxson5, but according to his calculations, there would be an SF DC of 31.

SF = 31
SB = 44

SB > SF purely for the reason that it can land. It doesn't matter that SF has a lower cooldown.


As for the Spare Hand, I hadn't taken that into account. With the +5 DC though, I believe that SB would still be better.

[voxson5]

bear in mind, my calcs were based on gear/stats you had & I put your builds WIS up to 10 -> 6 +2 tome +2 guildship (so no bonus).

with your 6 starting WIS +6 item +3 enh +3 exc +1 lit +2 tome +2guildship = 23 (+6), spare hand +10 stunners & +3 WF tactics; DC is 10+10+10+6+3+5+1 => 45


Your SB w/spare hand = 44 + 5 = 49 (for the time your titan clickie lasts...)
-------------

*edit*
With 16 STR/12 WIS starting (and spare hand):
SB 49 - 1 = 48
SF 45 + 3 = 48
--------------

Could be tough to fit everything in to get this, i've not accounted for enhancements/gear differences

--------------

I'm just trying to be constructive, my main is almost running the same split (but as a WF emerald 2.0 variant). Having SF & SB is rather tasty :D

[jeremyt]

This is true only for tanking. Else-wise, Fire stance is the more optimal stance.
*snip*
>>I can sort of see fire stance for a warforge since frozen tunic is not available and you might not want to go then henshin tod route. But basically this put warforge further behind other races in DPS as they dont need to run the gimpy stance (fire) to keep everything cycling in the non gimpy DPS stance (air).

But Stunning FIST won't be able to land at all with these DC's. Stunning BLOW would only land because it actually has the DC. I was proven wrong by voxson5, but according to his calculations, there would be an SF DC of 31.
*snip incorrect numbers*
As for the Spare Hand, I hadn't taken that into account. With the +5 DC though, I believe that SB would still be better.


>> A dark monk that drops wisdom is dropping DPS. Both in form of direct hit to damage DCs moves and debuff moves. No viability for unbalancing strike, no full damage ToDs ect. dumping wis is a very very bad idea for a dark monk. Also a root reason WF are no longer as viable as they once where (when tod didnt have a save).

Also stunning fist with a higher DPS build (outlined in other threads a few times) will have the exact same, or higher DCs as stunning fist with 150% faster cooldown. No clue how you can argue against that :p ..basically SB will not be better, even with a wis dumped WF, but most surely not with a more updated unarmed DPS/tank build.

[sirgog]

Forged for melee is a mistake in today's meta game. Build has low attack bonus so WF PA is problematic....

This.

Healing amp is the single best stat for most tank builds now.

You don't build a Barbarian with 12 Strength, and you don't build a melee tank with under 200% incoming divine healing. Ever.

Warforged melees were good back in the day that 100% incoming arcane healing meant something. Now it doesn't. Even on the 'fleshies get cursed' bosses, fleshies are easier to heal because scrolls hit them for 350-500.

[CoasterHops]

My main Smallmans was a 34 Pt build similar to this last life, I have TR'd him again. (Last life 733hp, Shadow fade, Earth Stance 3/Stalwart I, typical training dummy take down 8 - 10 secs)

Originally I ran him as a Fire Stanced/Kensai then swapped it to an Earth Stanced/Stalwart. The swap resulted in 0 loss to DPS. Loved the Build have TR'd to final life for it again. (Maybe 12 monk/7fighter/1rog this life)

I like WF but I understand alot of peoples comments in regards to fleshies superiority in todays game. I will remain WF on this toon for good. (Epic Docents etc)
I understand the argument around heal amp etc. but having a WF melee that can also double for a tank if required can open up some flexibilty in a party.

Smallmans at 20 even built as a tank can take up any melee job as good as most other builds running around at end game. In my opinion a Warforged makes a superior tactical fighter than a fleshie, the 12 monk/8fighter makes an awesome tactics/mob killing machine.

As for stunning fist vs. stunning blow, the build has alot of feats, take them both. If decently geared even a 32 point build should hit 42 dcs in both fist and blow. (Smallmans will hit 51 odd this life with epic spared hand)

I am going to build a fleshie version too, but if you want to go WF I say do it, Half Elves may be the best DPS but not all general melee should be Half Elf/Half Orc these days.

The Key to the Build is don't put yourself out there as a Tank but as a general DPS that can tank if necessary.

[lethargos]

This.

Healing amp is the single best stat for most tank builds now.

You don't build a Barbarian with 12 Strength, and you don't build a melee tank with under 200% incoming divine healing. Ever.

Warforged melees were good back in the day that 100% incoming arcane healing meant something. Now it doesn't. Even on the 'fleshies get cursed' bosses, fleshies are easier to heal because scrolls hit them for 350-500.

I really appreciate your knowledge of the game, but... 200% of healamp just isnt possible without epic equipment/human/halfelf. areyou talking about "tanks" or melees here ? As that 200% wont come if you dont have monk levels and dedicated equipment.

You can only get to 1.1x1.2x1.3=171% from items on a nonmonknonhotdnonpastpaladin-melee. you can throw shipamp and fleshmaker there to break your 200%.

Now talking about monk melees : on a fleshie you can break that 200% but still requires Eclaw or firestance...

Hjealamp is nice but i think theres a mentality rising that lacking ridicilous amounts of it makes you gimp. And some are expecting every melee to invest heavily in it.

Lets not fuel the fire too much ok ?

ps. human/helf-amp changes things but im pretty sure yuore not saying those are the only real choices ?

[voodoogroves]

The ONLY thing a WF brings to the table these days as a melee is a few different (better?) gear options for quick swapping and damage mitigation; the lack of healing amp IS that much of a problem.

Granted, I've got a WF melee I'm leveling right now and even though his healing amp is better than 100% in the mid levels, the thought of being on my FVS and scroll healing my melee in a tanking role is kinda disheartening. The other day I was in a group that used a WF Barb as the tank in a VoD. Thankfully, I was on my Rogue ... it was some sort of half-guild run so the tank and at least one of the divines healing him were in the same guild. Still, painful to watch.

[CoasterHops]

The ONLY thing a WF brings to the table these days as a melee is a few different (better?) gear options for quick swapping and damage mitigation; the lack of healing amp IS that much of a problem.

Granted, I've got a WF melee I'm leveling right now and even though his healing amp is better than 100% in the mid levels, the thought of being on my FVS and scroll healing my melee in a tanking role is kinda disheartening. The other day I was in a group that used a WF Barb as the tank in a VoD. Thankfully, I was on my Rogue ... it was some sort of half-guild run so the tank and at least one of the divines healing him were in the same guild. Still, painful to watch.

Putting a group together and expecting the warforged tank to be healed by a cleric/fvs is a msitake. (Unless the Warforged has great healing amp and other damage mitigation. eg is not a barbarian LOL)

WF tanks should be healed by an Arti/wiz/sorc/bard back up maybe, I would never expect my warforged tank to be healed by a divine healer in a tanking situation. The thing to remember about the Earth stanced III/Stalwart I Ninja spy build is that in almost all situations it will require alot less and I mean ALOT less healing than a Barbarian would yet will generate more hate if sufficiently geared. When tanking on my Warforged (Smallmans) I believe that it is also easy enough for a skilled caster to also dump dots on a target without any issues as well as be able to recon.

In anything outside of a Tanking situation a warforged melee is just as good as a fleshie who hasnt invested in healing amp, especially the considering the WF has good damage mitigation and superior tactics and uses them accordingly.

[freekay]

I'd post my thoughts on the fail of this build, but all of them have been sufficiently covered. All that's left is LOL

[sirgog]

Putting a group together and expecting the warforged tank to be healed by a cleric/fvs is a msitake. (Unless the Warforged has great healing amp and other damage mitigation. eg is not a barbarian LOL)

WF tanks should be healed by an Arti/wiz/sorc/bard back up maybe, I would never expect my warforged tank to be healed by a divine healer in a tanking situation. The thing to remember about the Earth stanced III/Stalwart I Ninja spy build is that in almost all situations it will require alot less and I mean ALOT less healing than a Barbarian would yet will generate more hate if sufficiently geared. When tanking on my Warforged (Smallmans) I believe that it is also easy enough for a skilled caster to also dump dots on a target without any issues as well as be able to recon.

In anything outside of a Tanking situation a warforged melee is just as good as a fleshie who hasnt invested in healing amp, especially the considering the WF has good damage mitigation and superior tactics and uses them accordingly.

Artis and Wizards are nowhere near as good at healing Warforged as divines are.

A cleric's Heal spell (in typical endgame gear and a typical endgame enhancement layout) hits for around 500 on 100% incoming healing. (That's Empowered). Most WF would have 90-120% incoming diving healing, so that's 450 to 600 points. Scrolls hit for 160 to 200.

OTOH, Reconstruct hits for 255 or so (scrolls 170 ish), a bit more when clickie-enhanced.

[CoasterHops]

Artis and Wizards are nowhere near as good at healing Warforged as divines are.

A cleric's Heal spell (in typical endgame gear and a typical endgame enhancement layout) hits for around 500 on 100% incoming healing. (That's Empowered). Most WF would have 90-120% incoming diving healing, so that's 450 to 600 points. Scrolls hit for 160 to 200.

OTOH, Reconstruct hits for 255 or so (scrolls 170 ish), a bit more when clickie-enhanced.

Personally i find Artis awesome for healing WF - and with the ability to cast a decent 250 ish recon as well if necessary. In all but the hardest content a WF build such as this can be kept up with artis scrolls only, this even goes for Epic Chronoscope as long as the Tank avoids Ice etc. Arti healing WF tank with Scrolls whilst continuously spamming max tiered Lucid Dreams charges, dumping lightning motes on boss seems to work good for me.

So basically people are making an argument for healing amped fleshie builds to be the only tanks for content, then saying that healing a wf on a divine isnt an issue.

My thoughts are that if the tank is a barbarian then yes it needs to be fleshie and have high healing amp, if it is a build that incorporates alot of damage mitigation (earth stance III/shadow fade/improved evasion/good fort and reflex saves) then theres nothing wrong with building it as a warforged. Outside of the absolute hardest content (Epic Lob) the WF version of this Build is sufficient to tank anything.

Also im fairly certain my artis scrolls hit for alot more than 170 but would need to check again.

I'm in no way saying that the WF version is superior to the flesh version, not at all, I am advocating the warforged version as a legitimate build to play at end game that will not be a hindrance on the party.

[CoasterHops]

Double post:
Also people that think a build like this is a sponge need to look again, fully geared this build is far from a sponge.

Massive hate gen without items = Docent of Defiance while tanking, Earth Stance III for Damage Mitigation, Shadow Fade on permanently pretty much, Good reflex and Fort saves. When geared this build is so far from a sponge its not funny.