Bardificer 12 Arty/8 Bard

[Crann]

Anyone running one?

I am trying to think of a way to get as much DPS buffage out of one raid position.

I saw the 14B/6A builds, but really think more Arty is the way to go.

14 Bard gives you 1 more damage/song than 8 Bard, while 12 Arty gives you much better DPS buffing options than 6 Arty.

Warchanter at level 8 gives you one less point (+6) on the Damage song than SS or Virt at 20, And having the 12 levels in Arty lets you use Silver Weapons....making Lit2's boss beaters(for some bosses). Doing this with the Motes running should add a pretty signifficant boost to overall dps. 15% not only to all the Lit2's but also electric spells.

Off healer capabilities involve Heal Scrolls at a +4 to caster level, as well as some weaker mass cures through Cure Serious Admixture.

Not sure on race yet. WF for instant self cast Repair Crit/immunities/HP or Human for extra feat/Heal Amp/Human Versatiliy. Maybe Helf for Rogue Dilly.

Either way thinking Repeater focused, not really going to have the HP to be in the midst of things. +6 dam/shot should help contribute to some decent repeater damage, especially with insightful damage running, or on a Lit2 Repeater with silver on it into a Lightning Mote Cloud.

[unbongwah]

14 Bard gives you 1 more damage/song than 8 Bard
You forgot Inspired Dmg/Atk III enhs at bard lvls 12 & 13, which adds another +1/+1.

And having the 12 levels in Arty lets you use Silver Weapons....making Lit2's boss beaters(for some bosses). While that's true, you could also just buy a stack of Deneith silver arrows and keep that infusion slot open for something else.

Also, have you factored rune arm dmg in your DPS calcs? That goes up the more arty lvls you have, to the point where roughly half the DPS of a pure lvl 20 arty comes from their RA, IIRC.

That said, I am intrigued by the notion of bard 8 / arty 12 too; apart from bard songs, getting Expeditious Retreat, Blur, Rage, Haste, and Displace on a repeater build doesn't suck. I just haven't seen a build I like yet.

[Cardtrick]

You forgot Inspired Dmg/Atk III enhs at bard lvls 12 & 13, which adds another +1/+1.
While that's true, you could also just buy a stack of Deneith silver arrows and keep that infusion slot open for something else.

I think he meant that he could use Silver Weapons on the party as a whole. For most melees, getting a silver Lit 2 + lightning motes is going to be quite a bit more DPS than whatever boss beater they would otherwise use.

I actually think I agree that this is probably about the most helpful class split if trying primarily to be a raid party buffer for parties with no other artificers or bards. That seems like a bit too much of a niche purpose for me, but this split does fit the purpose ideally.

[Crann]

I think he meant that he could use Silver Weapons on the party as a whole. For most melees, getting a silver Lit 2 + lightning motes is going to be quite a bit more DPS than whatever boss beater they would otherwise use.

Exactly what I'm going for here.

It would be a niche build, in that I am trying to bring the biggest increase in damage to the rest of the party that a single player can provide.

[Darkrok]

Feat-wise you might want to skip the ranged but that all depends on goals. You can double-dip weapon focus: slashing to qualify for both PrE's. Perhaps go with a str-based build and an epic chimera's fang?

I played a heavy bard splash arti and a heavy arti splash bard as I was LR'ing from my level 12 axesinger'ish human to a pure arti. It is a pretty nice mix of abilities but you do give up a lot from arti by splashing. The biggest issue is that while you may provide more damage it's only marginally more and staying pure makes you stack better with the other class whereas splashing means you only really add to the group when you're the only one available from either class.

My other thought is that if you're going to go all-out support then just do it. Go halfling, take the healing dragonmarks, max them out, take max/emp or at the very least empower healing, make sure to take several tiers (if not all) of hero's companion, etc.

[Crann]

Power attack is tripping me up trying to build a ranged version. The strength requirement of 13 is stretching a 1st lifer pretty thin. I don't want to start at 8, but don't want to spend 5 build points here. I could go full STR Melee route, but am concerned with the HP's that would be achieveable. Would really rather sit back and pew pew between scroll heals/raises/whatever else.

I have an upcoming 3rd life (1 past Pally and 1 Ranger) that would probably work pretty well, but there are other plans for him, not sure I want a niche character for one of my mains.

The idea was consolidating the two dps buffer classes and postions into one. Having a full version of either class in the group with this one really does greatly diminish its usefulness.

I guess what I'm trying to figure out is which of these combos adds more DPS to a Raid:

1. One Artificer and One Bard
2. This guy, plus a Frenzied Beserker 3/Kensai 3/Godhand monk/Savant Sorc(or whoever else is top of the DPS foodchain ATM.)


My other thought is to go the Spell Singer Route, but then the song would be 2 weaker (+4 damage) ....although +10% SP isn't that horrible for marathon fights.

[Hobgoblin]

don't want to spend 5 build points here.

wouldnt it be less then that?

only have to spend 3 (11) and then use a +2 tome?

hob

[Crann]

wouldnt it be less then that?

only have to spend 3 (11) and then use a +2 tome?

hob

Right...although now Hafling sounds better to me, and back to spending 5, but Dex makes it up. Will enter into generator when I can and see what happens.

Thinking off the top of my head, Hafling with following starting stats:

Str 12
Dex 18
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 8
Cha 12

I am going to name him Axer's little buddy :)

[Hobgoblin]

I am going to name him Axer's little buddy :)

I like DrAxer's minime better

hob

[Crann]

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Axer's Lil Buddy
Level 20 True Neutral Halfling Male
(8 Bard \ 12 Artificer)
Hit Points: 262
Spell Points: 807
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 10
Reflex: 19
Will: 14

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 11 13
Dexterity 18 26
Constitution 14 16
Intelligence 14 17
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 13 14

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 4 8
Bluff 1 2
Concentration 6 26
Diplomacy 1 2
Disable Device 6 26
Haggle 1 11
Heal -1 -1
Hide 4 12
Intimidate 1 4
Jump 0 10
Listen -1 1
Move Silently 4 17
Open Lock 8 27
Perform n/a 15
Repair 2 3
Search 6 26
Spot 3 9
Swim 0 1
Tumble n/a 9
Use Magic Device 5 25

Level 1 (Artificer)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Artificer Construct Mastery
Feat: (Automatic) Artificer Knowledge: Scrolls
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Great Crossbow
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Repeating Heavy Crossbow
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Repeating Light Crossbow
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Agility
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Bravery
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Keen Ears
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Luck
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Size Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Thrown Weapon Focus
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Inscribe Artificer Scroll
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Magical Training
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Rapid Reload
Feat: (Automatic) Revive Iron Defender
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding
Feat: (Automatic) Unleash Iron Defender
Enhancement: Artificer Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Artificer Crossbow Damage I
Enhancement: Storm Manipulation I


Level 2 (Artificer)
Feat: (Automatic) Artificer Knowledge: Potions
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Rune Arm Use
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Enhancement: Halfling Hero's Companion I
Enhancement: Artificer Intelligence I
Enhancement: Artificer Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Dismiss Charm
Feat: (Automatic) Fascinate
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Courage
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Charged Spellcasting I


Level 4 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I


Level 5 (Bard)
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Competence
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Halfling Hero's Companion II


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I


Level 7 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II


Level 8 (Bard)
Feat: (Automatic) Suggestion


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Halfling Hero's Companion III


Level 10 (Bard)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Inspire Courage


Level 11 (Artificer)
Feat: (Automatic) Artificer Knowledge: Wands


Level 12 (Artificer)
Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Extend Spell
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Trapmaking
Enhancement: Artificer Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Halfling Hero's Companion IV


Level 13 (Artificer)
Feat: (Automatic) Artificer Knowledge: Arms and Armor
Feat: (Automatic) Retain Essence
Enhancement: Artificer Crossbow Attack I
Enhancement: Artificer Wand and Scroll Mastery II


Level 14 (Artificer)
Feat: (Automatic) Song of Freedom
Enhancement: Artificer Battle Engineer I


Level 15 (Artificer)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Artificer Knowledge (ALL)


Level 16 (Artificer)
Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Maximize Spell


Level 17 (Artificer)
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Heroics
Enhancement: Artificer Crossbow Damage II
Enhancement: Deadly Shocks I
Enhancement: Storm Manipulation II
Enhancement: Storm Manipulation III
Enhancement: Storm Manipulation IV
Enhancement: Storm Manipulation V
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
Enhancement: Artificer Wand and Scroll Mastery III


Level 18 (Artificer)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell


Level 19 (Artificer)
Enhancement: Artificer Crossbow Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song III


Level 20 (Artificer)
Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Quicken Spell
Feat: (Automatic) Mass Suggestion
Enhancement: Storm Manipulation VI
Enhancement: Artificer Wand and Scroll Mastery IV




Kind of a rough build. Think I need to work on leveling and Feat order, but this is the basic idea.

Took some ranged feats instead of Dragonmarks, just mainly leaing towards the goal of overall improvement to DPS.

It will take some tweaking, but may be doable.

[Alyanto]

Removed and posted as own thread