Lama crafting feedback

[sirgog]

Courtesy of the current event, I've been able to craft a few of the new recipes. Post 4 has more (on the 150-200 crafting XP curve)

Some feedback:

- The new recipes will be popular. Being able to put stats in weird item slots will be hotly desired by TR junkies in particular. I made +6 Int gloves (BtC on acquire) and a +5 Int robe (BtC on equip) in my tests.
- The new recipes don't explain well how they differ from existing ones. If I had not read the release notes I would not have understood what they were for.
- It is not currently possible to tell whether a shard in your Ingredients Bag is an 'old-style' restricted shard, or one of the new, versatile ones, except by putting it into the item crafting machine.
- String table errors are back! Every time you mouseover a shard (old or new) you get one.

Suggestions:

- Rename the new shards "Versatile Clever +6 Shard" and so on. Rename the crafting recipes too, and change the mouseover description in the shard creator UI, so that it is clear in the crafting window that you are getting something better than a normal shard. This will be really, really important for the Auction House - on the live servers, people will NOT be happy if they cannot tell the difference between a +5 Int shard and a Versatile +5 Int shard.
- Rename unbound shards "Unbound Clever +6 Shard". This is a minor quality of life issue that exists on Live too - it is quite a pain to discern which of the crafted shards in your bag could be sold on the AH. But with *FOUR* different types of 'Clever +5 shards' now, it's more important than it has been. This would mean you'd have "Versatile Unbound Clever +5 Shards".
- Make the Versatile shards follow a simple-to-understand formula for ingredient costs. IMO if a 'classic' bound shard costs X greaters, Y lessers and Z collectibles, make the Versatile shard cost 1.5X greaters, Y lessers and Z collectibles and the Versatile Unbound version cost 4X greaters, Y lessers and 4Z collectibles. (Unbounds cost 3X+Y+3Z generally, but Versatile shards currently follow no pattern).
- As a new recipe, let us craft "Shard of Great Potential - +5 to +10" and similar to reduce steps in crafting and to add new higher level recipes to smooth the levelling curve. There are not many 150+ recipes at all - 56 in the Arcane school which means you'd need to craft each around 6 times to level up at present, so these would fill an important levelling gap without adding any more power.

[Entelech]

/signed. Great suggestions Sirgog.

[nolaureltree000]

have they opened up more recipes for trinkets? i know we will never see the day where we can craft seeker onto a trinket, but i was kind of miffed when i realized just how much stuff i wanted was unable to be crafted onto trinkets.

[sirgog]

Crafting XP curve testing

To test the amount of shards, essences and the like needed to level crafting, I asked Kookie to set me to 77000XP (middle of level 145) in each school, and started focusing upon Elemental crafting (which has the least high level recipes).

I deliberately set out trying to get 'stranded' - i.e. in a situation where I could level no further as all recipes had been either outlevelled, or had been pushed to 0 XP by diminishing returns for crafting the same recipe multiple times.

After exhausting about 10000 greater essences, I'd hit 170 and concluded that no, I was not able to become stranded (at least not until after level 187, which grants 100% success for the highest level shards in the Elemental school). The levelling curve does not break down with the higher levels.

I made 179 'versatile' shards total - 7 per levelup. Some were of considerable value and use (Moderate Fort that can go on boots, Greater Fire Lore that can go on a ring), and some utter chaff (Greater Resonance 4 that could go almost anywhere if anyone was foolish enough to equip it).

Levelling beyond 150 will require a lot of essences, but isn't required at all as all the bound recipes are 150 or lower. And the quite useful items you can make should help cover the (admittedly high) cost - while you won't be able to see the Greater Resonance 4 items, you certainly could sell Moderate Fort items in weird slots for quite a bit more than materials cost.

[Osma77]

- Make the Versatile shards follow a simple-to-understand formula for ingredient costs. IMO if a 'classic' bound shard costs X greaters, Y lessers and Z collectibles, make the Versatile shard cost 1.5X greaters, Y lessers and Z collectibles and the Versatile Unbound version cost 4X greaters, Y lessers and 4Z collectibles. (Unbounds cost 3X+Y+3Z generally, but Versatile shards currently follow no pattern).


Fully agreed with many of your suggestions (would love to have the ability to see what a shard can go onto from the recipe page itself, rather then having to make the shard and check, or having to look it up).

However, on this one point, i am not sure i agree at all, at least for unbound shards. Not sure that versatile shards should be that much more expensive, if they are more expensive at all. While they are much more useful then the normal ones, they are not any more powerful overall (a +6 con shard is still +6 on a pair of gloves rather then a belt).
Also, and this is more important to me personally, these shards are 60 some levels higher then normal. Casual or "journeyman" crafters will have a devil of a time getting high enough to make these shards as it is; making them cost 10-15 more greaters just adds insult to injury. Let the extra levels be the reason people dont make them, and when you finally get to a high enough level to be able to finally craft them, your reward is being able to put the shards you already could craft into new slots.

That being said, I can understand adding additional cost for unbound shards; after all, these will be sold/given to other people. They will be willing to pay more for these more useful shards, so the overall profit will still favor the crafter even if the crafter has to pay more to make them.

[Lithic]

[color=yellow]you certainly could sell Moderate Fort items in weird slots for quite a bit more than materials cost.

My experience with the previous level limit raises tells me otherwise. I was the first on Argo to reach the ability to make lvl 11 +6 stat items and rings (or at least the first to bother selling such), and I couldn't sell them for much more than material cost. Selling them individually was much too time intensive, and the auction house had little return on investment. It was so low that once I hit 150 arcane, I didn't bother anymore. It took a couple weeks after I gave up to start seeing others posting craftable +6 stat items, so i can guarantee that I had zero competition for a good long time.

Now if the versatile recipes are of much lower materal cost than the current unbound +6 items, it might be possible. It would depend on how much greater essences soar with the release of the new levels. I'm not holding my breath though.

[sirgog]

My experience with the previous level limit raises tells me otherwise. I was the first on Argo to reach the ability to make lvl 11 +6 stat items and rings (or at least the first to bother selling such), and I couldn't sell them for much more than material cost. Selling them individually was much too time intensive, and the auction house had little return on investment. It was so low that once I hit 150 arcane, I didn't bother anymore. It took a couple weeks after I gave up to start seeing others posting craftable +6 stat items, so i can guarantee that I had zero competition for a good long time.

Now if the versatile recipes are of much lower materal cost than the current unbound +6 items, it might be possible. It would depend on how much greater essences soar with the release of the new levels. I'm not holding my breath though.

Interesting - I've seen people powerlevelling crafting that have posted +6 stat shards (which I can't make) on Khyber at 20k PP. Bought them, attached them to rings, and they sell - quite fast - at 120-200k PP. All except Wisdom (rich TRs have that on Conc-Opp items).

Not to mention the fast-moving ML5 Mod Fort rings at 50k PP.

Essences are easily bought at 300-350 PP on my server.

[bbqzor]

Just wanted to second the OPs suggestions. More transparency with shards in the window, in bags, and on the AH was needed even before the number of shards (almost?) doubled.

It will definitely be needed with the AH and for trading, just to avoid any intentional or accidental mistakes. And even outside of those two, does present QoL issues even for a user only crafting for themselves.

Thanks for getting the ball rolling, I hope changes to shard name clarity and UI clarity can make it in.

[dom_keno]

Another suggestion maybe put in another selection button for Prefix only or suffix only for things shown might make it abit easier for people to use. i know at times i have problems figure out wich one to put on something but i think it would also be helpful and more user friendly

[rodallec]

OP suggestions sound good if theyre going to help reduce confusion.

[sirgog]

have they opened up more recipes for trinkets? i know we will never see the day where we can craft seeker onto a trinket, but i was kind of miffed when i realized just how much stuff i wanted was unable to be crafted onto trinkets.

I think you can now craft +6 stat of 33% absorb on a trinket, among other things. I'd need to check if you can make Greater XXX Focus of 33% absorb, but I think you can.

[lugoman]

Courtesy of the current event, I've been able to craft a few of the new recipes. Post 4 has more (on the 150-200 crafting XP curve)


- As a new recipe, let us craft "Shard of Great Potential - +5 to +10" and similar to reduce steps in crafting and to add new higher level recipes to smooth the levelling curve. There are not many 150+ recipes at all - 56 in the Arcane school which means you'd need to craft each around 6 times to level up at present, so these would fill an important levelling gap without adding any more power.

This would really be nice.

[sephiroth1084]

Interesting - I've seen people powerlevelling crafting that have posted +6 stat shards (which I can't make) on Khyber at 20k PP. Bought them, attached them to rings, and they sell - quite fast - at 120-200k PP. All except Wisdom (rich TRs have that on Conc-Opp items).

Not to mention the fast-moving ML5 Mod Fort rings at 50k PP.

Essences are easily bought at 300-350 PP on my server.
Do you find the crafted items sell better than the shards by themselves?


On topic: shards in general need some refurbishing of their descriptions. I'd like to see:


Unbound shards labeled as such in their name: Unbound Holy Shard, Unbound Shard of Lesser Vampirism.
Shard descriptions clearly denote what slots the effect can be placed on: "This shard can be applied to Trinkets and Goggles."
Shard descriptions specify whether the effect is a prefix or suffix. I know that the shard's name indicates this, but for players less familiar with the game, or who don't hit the forums much, this isn't immediately obvious.
Shards designed to fit in unusual spots indicating such in both their name and description, for both bound and unbound versions.

[Vindraxx]

On topic: shards in general need some refurbishing of their descriptions. I'd like to see:
Shard descriptions clearly denote what slots the effect can be placed on: "This shard can be applied to Trinkets and Goggles."


For the love of god this.

[DeltaBravo]

TY for the info, and ty for testing this out.
also i like your sugestions so ill sign this :)

/signed

[Rumbaar]

Nice suggestions Sirgog ... lucky this is on Morelands so it can be changed before it goes on the test server Lamannia :)

On a side note, can you craft on Defender Modules on Lamannia?

[Yalann]

Agree with OP on suggestions. 'New' recipes would be awesome but I suppose it's still more recipes.