Psionics

[BinyaminTsadik]

We all know Druid is coming soon, but what about the Psionics classes?

The game is already so full of psionics with no class.

Mindflayers, telekinesis, Inspired Quarter, Dreaming Dark, Symbiants... etc.

This class is a game changer, it is a great multiclass aswell and is core to eberron.

[Jasmack1972]

I always loved the Psionics of 3.5 AD&D and can not for the life of me understand why they are not in the game. The Psion is my favourite, but there are so many possibilities with the Soul Knife and the Wilder. Like you said there are already Psionics in the game. Bring it on I say.

[Falco_Easts]

I honestly can't see how different they would be from what we have. Wouldn't they just act like a caster class with different "spells"? Are they really that needed unless they introduce the Kalashter (sp?).

[Redicular]

I honestly can't see how different they would be from what we have. Wouldn't they just act like a caster class with different "spells"? Are they really that needed unless they introduce the Kalashter (sp?).

not even different spells, a lot of psionic powers are reworded copies of wizard spells

Force Screen: Invisible disc provides +4 shield bonus to AC.

hmm sounds familiar

Recall Death: Subject dies or takes 5d6 damage.

know i've seen something like that before

[Falco_Easts]

not even different spells, a lot of psionic powers are reworded copies of wizard spells

Force Screen: Invisible disc provides +4 shield bonus to AC.

hmm sounds familiar

Recall Death: Subject dies or takes 5d6 damage.

know i've seen something like that before

Yup, that's what I thought.

[unbongwah]

Well, there's also the fact that unlike casters who have a limited number of uses of spells per day, psionics use power points to - OH WAIT :cool:

[Fecerak]

Yeah, psionics really doesn't make sense in the current DDO. I'd much rather have them make classes that add something new to the game. Good examples of this from PnP is imo:
- Duskblade (PHB2) - an arcane melee gish
- Factotum (Dungeonscape) - jack-of-all-trades
- Tome of Battle classes - Melees with more active combat options
- Tome of Magic classes (could be interesting, although might not be worth the effort to introduce them - shadowcaster should prolly be skipped as it doesn't really add anything new)
- Magic of Incarnum - Lots of interesting abilies, and having to do some tradeoffs in terms of gear vs. abilities could get interesting too, although they might just let you have both - still interesting though

But both Psionic Warrior and Soulknife could potentially be interesting, but if they implement those, they would most likely have to implement the rest too because of all the guys who would be way too sad if only *some* of the psionic classes were released, thus I feel like it would take too much dev time and still not give much variation compared to what we have right now.

[Destroyer_Omega]

not even different spells, a lot of psionic powers are reworded copies of wizard spells

Force Screen: Invisible disc provides +4 shield bonus to AC.

hmm sounds familiar

Recall Death: Subject dies or takes 5d6 damage.

know i've seen something like that before

Except that Force Screen can be augmented on 17th level to give +8 shield bonus, and Recall Death is a Will save or die, not Fort save (and unlike Dismiss/Banish, it isn't restricted to extraplanar creatures). :p

A better example to prove a point would be Psionic Teleport, Psionic True Seeing, or Psionic Restoration, as those are the ones that work exactly as their spell counterparts :p (still, powers of this kind are actually a minority).

[HastyPudding]

Except that Force Screen can be augmented on 17th level to give +8 shield bonus, and Recall Death is a Will save or die, not Fort save (and unlike Dismiss/Banish, it isn't restricted to extraplanar creatures). :p

A better example to prove a point would be Psionic Teleport, Psionic True Seeing, or Psionic Restoration, as those are the ones that work exactly as their spell counterparts :p (still, powers of this kind are actually a minority).

And that's the point that people overlook when they say 'psions/wilders are just reworded wizards/sorcerers'. Psions and wilders can augment their spells, increasing their power, but running the risk of becoming overloaded and taking damage because they're not strong enough to handle the extra power.

Psionic spells are great crowd control and moderate damage (when not augmented), and, in my experience, tend to work better than a wizard using the same type of spell (in PnP anyway). The problem is the vast majority of psionic spells are based on will saves and are mind-effecting spells, and we all know that the majority of middle-higher level enemies have an absurdly high will save.

They could create them similar to monks (who are a psionic class in some versions) and use enhancements/feats/special 'SLA's' for their powers. Still, they would have to implement power resistance to everything, place a new system for power points, and if they're adding psionics, they might as well add Kalashtar and Illithid (both native to Eberron) as playable races. That's a lot of work.

And if people say 'they don't bring anything new to DDO', well then, neither do artificers and druids, really. Crafting is already readily accessible to everybody (and they completely usurped the rogue mechanic) and if people are expecting WoW-like druids, they're going to be sadly let down.

[balancetraveller]

Psiforged anyone? :D

[Fecerak]

I would like to point out that both artificers and druids DO bring something new to the game - Artificers make repeaters fairly viable, as well as having their unique runearms, and druid will prolly make fairly good "battlecasters", something that isn't really possible right now. They also don't have much overlap compared to the classes already in place, while Psion and wilder are overlapping a lot with wizard and sorcerer, although Psychic Warrior and Soulknife both would bring a decent amount of new stuff

[HastyPudding]

I would like to point out that both artificers and druids DO bring something new to the game - Artificers make repeaters fairly viable, as well as having their unique runearms, and druid will prolly make fairly good "battlecasters", something that isn't really possible right now. They also don't have much overlap compared to the classes already in place, while Psion and wilder are overlapping a lot with wizard and sorcerer, although Psychic Warrior and Soulknife both would bring a decent amount of new stuff

Wait, Druid doesn't overlap? You forget the fact that at least 80% of their spell list is a mixture of arcane and divine spells already in use, and from what I've seen of the proposed spell list on the wiki, they got some of the best spells of both, a fact I find unsettling for the future of the wizard class. They only new thing they bring is the shapeshifting (and maybe spear weapons), and people are probably going to be let down once they understand that it's nothing like what they think it will be. I foresee nothing but a jumped up warchanter without the songs and twice the spells, and a few shiny shapeshifting forms, the majority of which will most likely be useless by end game. They probably won't even get their pets, and if they do, you'll hear every ranger crying out in anger because of it.

Oh, they'll make druids overpowered for a couple months or so, but after that they'll get nerfed once Turbine has milked money from people having to buy them. Artificers are first on that list, though.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the druid class, but as far as bringing new things to the table, I really don't see them being that much different from anything we already have.

*waits for the inevitable flames*

[Dematto]

The biggest difference between a Psion and a Wizard is that Psions are based around having a pool of spell points per day.
Since DDO already has spellpoints, I can't see Vanilla Psions being added. Even the "Augment" system is essentially just DDO's Metamagics. So I can't really see that getting copied. Is Augment a perfect overlap of current meta's? No, because I can't Meta a summon like a Psion can. But I think the discrepencies between Meta and Augment are close enough that the minutia would be troublesome.

Something like the Psychic Warrior? The Fighter/Psion melee hybrid? That, I could see. Possibly with the PREs Soul Knife (current weapon gains a boost to it's effective enhancement level, like Battle Engineer. Possibly an activated ability that "throws" the weapon, and the shatter weapon point blank AOE that soul knives get I think) and War Mind (The Talaaric Codex guys who get stuff like +2/4 stacking bonus to abilities, a smite-like attack useable on anything and possibly some regeneration or minor healing.)

[HastyPudding]

The biggest difference between a Psion and a Wizard is that Psions are based around having a pool of spell points per day.
Since DDO already has spellpoints, I can't see Vanilla Psions being added. Even the "Augment" system is essentially just DDO's Metamagics. So I can't really see that getting copied. Is Augment a perfect overlap of current meta's? No, because I can't Meta a summon like a Psion can. But I think the discrepencies between Meta and Augment are close enough that the minutia would be troublesome.

Something like the Psychic Warrior? The Fighter/Psion melee hybrid? That, I could see. Possibly with the PREs Soul Knife (current weapon gains a boost to it's effective enhancement level, like Battle Engineer. Possibly an activated ability that "throws" the weapon, and the shatter weapon point blank AOE that soul knives get I think) and War Mind (The Talaaric Codex guys who get stuff like +2/4 stacking bonus to abilities, a smite-like attack useable on anything and possibly some regeneration or minor healing.)

I don't see much of a point in having psychic warrior/soulknife without psions and wilders.

If we were to have a casting/melee hybrid, we'd see druskblades, hexblades, and eldritch knights first.

[Falco_Easts]

And that's the point that people overlook when they say 'psions/wilders are just reworded wizards/sorcerers'. Psions and wilders can augment their spells, increasing their power, but running the risk of becoming overloaded and taking damage because they're not strong enough to handle the extra power.

So Metamagics you take damage from. Yay!

[Havok.cry]

So Metamagics you take damage from. Yay!

Actually that would be in addition to metamagics.

[Zachski]

Actually that would be in addition to metamagics.

Yeah.

In addition to being able to spend extra power points on their spells (not to mention there is no metamagic that makes Shield grant an additional +4 AC) there is also the Metapsionic feats they have.

[ShadowFlash]

I want this..... :D

Psychometabolism
Level: Psychic warrior 6
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal; see text
Target: You
Duration: 1 round/level
Power Points: 11
Metapsionics: Extend

You wrench from your subconscious a terrifying visage of deadly hunger and become one with it. You are transformed into a nightmarish version of yourself, complete with an ooze-sleek skin coating, lashing tentacles, and a fright-inducing countenance. You retain your basic shape and can continue to use your equipment. This power cannot be used to impersonate someone; while horrible, your form is recognizably your own.

You gain the frightful presence extraordinary ability, which takes effect automatically. Opponents within 30 feet of you that have fewer Hit Dice or levels than you become shaken for 5d6 rounds if they fail a Will save (DC 16 + your Cha modifier). An opponent that succeeds on the saving throw is immune to your frightful presence for 24 hours. Frightful presence is a mind-affecting fear effect.

Your horrific form grants you a natural armor bonus of +5, damage reduction 5/-, and a +4 bonus to your Strength score. In addition, you gain +33% to your land speed as well as a +10 bonus on Jump checks.

A nest of violently flailing black tentacles sprout from your hair and back. You can make up to four additional attacks with these tentacles in addition to your regular melee attacks. You can make tentacle attacks within the space you normally threaten. Each tentacle attacks at your highest base attack bonus with a -5 penalty. These tentacles deal 2d8 points of damage plus one-half your Strength bonus on each successful strike.

This power functions only while you inhabit your base form (for instance, you can't be metamorphed or polymorphed into another form, though you can use, claws of the beast, and bite of the wolf in conjunction with this power for your regular attacks), and while your mind resides within your own body.

Augment: For every additional power point you spend, this power's duration increases by 2 rounds.

ShadowFlash

[Flavilandile]

The biggest difference between a Psion and a Wizard is that Psions are based around having a pool of spell points per day.
Since DDO already has spellpoints, I can't see Vanilla Psions being added. Even the "Augment" system is essentially just DDO's Metamagics. So I can't really see that getting copied.

There is no difference, the way DDO is implemented would work well for Psion.
But there's no point in putting psion in game unless you also put player character classes and races that goes with it.

As I stated somewhere else, it wouldn't be the first game that end up with the following spell division :
- Spells from the Magic ( Arcane )
- Spells from the Gods ( Divine )
- Spells from the Mind ( Psion )

I let you guess the PnP games with that division. :D

[HastyPudding]

There is no difference, the way DDO is implemented would work well for Psion.
But there's no point in putting psion in game unless you also put player character classes and races that goes with it.

As I stated somewhere else, it wouldn't be the first game that end up with the following spell division :
- Spells from the Magic ( Arcane )
- Spells from the Gods ( Divine )
- Spells from the Mind ( Psion )

I let you guess the PnP games with that division. :D

That's what I was thinking. Kalashtar and Illithid are the primary psionic races, and of the two, Kalashtar would be the more likely; in addition to finally having a race that adds +2 wis, they look like humans except slightly taller and thinner with more refined features. Illithid models are already in game (aka mindflayers) and it would be a real challenge to implement weapons, armor, and animations onto those models. And seeing as they have a ton of racial and ability bonuses to the point of being almost godlike by end-game, it would be even more difficult to balance them out as a playable race, not to mention fit them into the lore that works with the current setting.

Still, they would need to do a ton of customized work to make the psion markedly different from arcane casters.

[Expalphalog]

The game is already so full of psionics with no class.

Tell me about it!

They're always passin' gas without so much as a single "excuse me" and then tryin' to implant a false memory in my noggin to make me think that it was the guy next to me all along. But I have a high will save so I'm on to you, dagnabbit!

...Dang no class Psionics...