Wizard18/Arty2

[Failedlegend]

I'm trying to rebuild a wizard for my friend she wants something to do when she runs out of mana (she's a bit new is just starting learn how to conserve mana) or to reduce its use so she doesn't run out.

Now she likes the Palemaster Prestige so going melee is out of the question due to Zombie Forms reduction of melee speed (I don't actually see this build making it to wraith form) so I went with 2 Arty...the Trapskills and UMD are always go and it grants are fair amount of free ranged feats and later Rune Arm use...if only for the extra enhancements.


True Neutral Halfling Wiz18/Arty2 "Palemaster"

Str 10
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 18

Here's a rough feat order (Assuming Arty at 1 and 11)

1 PBS
W2 Extend
3 Precise Shot
6 Maximize
W6 SF:Necro
9 Insightful Reflexes
12 GSF: Necro
W12 Mental Toughness
15 Empower
W17 Heighten
18 Toughness

Skills:

Level 1 (Artificer)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)


Level 2 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 3 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 4 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 5 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 6 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 7 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 8 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 9 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 10 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 11 (Artificer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 13 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 16 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 19 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Repair (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

[goodspeed]

I suppose you could go arti but the thing is I think the feats would be wasted on ranged. You could use the int mod to hit but dmg wouldn't be grand.

Also you'd lose evasion which is really nice when you want to jog through that trap.

I mean I could see the potential to be sure but I don't think id wan't to drop evasion. It's just to nice for traps and stuff that whips exploding **** at you.

[Failedlegend]

I suppose you could go arti but the thing is I think the feats would be wasted on ranged. You could use the int mod to hit but dmg wouldn't be grand.

Also you'd lose evasion which is really nice when you want to jog through that trap.

I mean I could see the potential to be sure but I don't think id wan't to drop evasion. It's just to nice for traps and stuff that whips exploding **** at you.

Oh yeah her original build had 2rogue but she didn't like it and was annoyed about constantly running out of mana and wanted an alternative...I'm trying to be minimalistic about the feats I use for ranged.

[Kriogen]

Wizards Capstone is very good. So good that only Evasion is a good enough substitution.

Archmage Magic Missile costs only a point or two and is "ranged".

Pale Masters Necro Bolt is also "ranged".

If you want to use repeater, you can just take feat. No need for Arty. Well, you may like quick gain of extra pew pew oomph at low levels, but its weak compared to what you can do as Wizard at mid to high levels.

You can't really run out of mana. When you are below 10, mana regens. And thats just about enough for none-meta'd lowbie spells or SLA.

There are also wands. Weak, but useful at very low levels.

Go:
- Wizard until level 6 and use none-meta'd damage spells and/or wands
- Archmage Evoc from 6 to level 12 for cheap Magic Missile SLA (totaly maxed MM will one-shot most trash mobs at lowish levels)
- then switch (replace one feat with free respec token from Lockania) to Pale Master and use Necro Bolt/Blast for pew pew.

[Failedlegend]

All good cases for going pure

See I know your right..but she doesn't want to. I'm trying to make a build within her parameters.

[unbongwah]

Is there some reason she wouldn't be happier just playing a pure arty?

[Failedlegend]

Is there some reason she wouldn't be happier just playing a pure arty?

Her character she plays alone is an Arty and she wanted to join a static group with us (Our current staic group is lvl 10 this one hasn't started yet...that one I play my Bone Knight) and wanted to play a caster that could do traps and stuff...I pitched the Wizard18/Rogue2 to her she tried it for a bit and got frustrated with losing her SP so fast and asked if I could make it so she can use a weapon as a back-up so I figured 2 Arty was the cheapest way to get her a decent weapon (since zombie+melee weapons only works if you build around it..IOW not cheap) and she got to keep her Trap Skills and UMD.

The other characters are my "Monkchersai" Monk12/Fighter7/Arty1 (Arty1 was just the least useless Blue Bar) an unfinished Cleric Build and probably a Barbarian (although he's considering something similar to the Emerald or my Bone Knight).

[Darkrok]

Honestly I'd try to get her to go pure arti. It will do what it sounds like she wants far better than any splash build. You could easily play your arti as an arcane caster and do very well. Most people play more heavily to pew pew pew levels 1-14 simply because it's easier but it certainly is doable to play a lightning spec'd nuker at those levels as well.

[deahamlet]

Darkrok has the right idea.

She will have nothing to improve her pew-pew so really those 2 levels are a waste, she could stick with rogue, pick up a feat to use repeaters and do just as badly with the pew-pew while getting evasion.

So either go 20 artie or stick with 18wiz/2rog and give feat to use heavy repeaters.
My arties real dmg comes from being able to use my INT modifier. A wiz will also have **** for DEX so pretty much pew-pew with/without arti2 is going to be sucky. Maybe less sucky than wands... but I dunno about that. Teach her to CC (web, soundburst, even charm if needed) and you guys play around her CC.

I found the most frustrating thing about wizard was playing with toons that raised too many enemies for all of us to deal with so I was forced to do damage spells. Wizards are not sorcerers... Going for magic missile SLA doesn't sound that bad, but it's frustratingly slow damage if the party is not working well together. Better off CCing things.

[Missing_Minds]

blow the AP on wand enhancments and keep a stock of eternal wands.

I can't agree with the arti splash either when the wiz capstone really is that good.

[unbongwah]

I pitched the Wizard18/Rogue2 to her she tried it for a bit and got frustrated with losing her SP so fast and asked if I could make it so she can use a weapon as a back-up so I figured 2 Arty was the cheapest way to get her a decent weapon (since zombie+melee weapons only works if you build around it..IOW not cheap) and she got to keep her Trap Skills and UMD
Fair enough. It just seems like this build would have the same challenges that, say, a wizard AA would have: low BAB, MAD, ranged feats eat into metamagics (despite wiz bonus feats), etc. And it's too bad I don't see a way to raise BAB high enough to add IPS without giving up more wiz lvls; otherwise I'd suggest starting STR 8 DEX 17 so can add it. Hmmm...well, a couple of questions: might the extra feat from arty 1 / ftr or monk 1 be more useful than rune arm usage from arty 2? Can she afford to UMD Insightful Dmg scrolls constantly (once her UMD is high enough)? Are you trying to make a build which can use repeaters the whole way up to 20, or just enough to get her over the initial "hump" of being a new wizard until she gets the hang of things?

[MsEricka]

If she's losing SP so fast she's probably doing something wrong. Determine what that is and see if you can adjust her playstyle.

Note - SLA's are the biggest bang for your buck SP wise. Use them. Abuse them. Then use them some more.

Also take a look at the links in my signature and consider getting her some of the gear mentioned to both save her SP and to regenerate some in quests.

[Failedlegend]

Fair enough. It just seems like this build would have the same challenges that, say, a wizard AA would have: low BAB, MAD, ranged feats eat into metamagics (despite wiz bonus feats), etc. And it's too bad I don't see a way to raise BAB high enough to add IPS without giving up more wiz lvls; otherwise I'd suggest starting STR 8 DEX 17 so can add it. Hmmm...well, a couple of questions: might the extra feat from arty 1 / ftr or monk 1 be more useful than rune arm usage from arty 2? Can she afford to UMD Insightful Dmg scrolls constantly (once her UMD is high enough)? Are you trying to make a build which can use repeaters the whole way up to 20, or just enough to get her over the initial "hump" of being a new wizard until she gets the hang of things?

Mostly over the "hump" like I said this build probably won't even make it to Tier 2 Palemaster and was originally just a first life version of my Shield Wizard but thats my play-style not hers.

Mind you if there IS a way to make it work all the way to twenty without sacrificing too much caster ability I'm wide open to suggestions.

As far as Insightful Damage scrolls we're not super rich but she would probably be fine.

Taking Arty1/Monk or Fighter1 is an interesting concept but the reason for Arty 2 is to get the rune arm...not super useful for combat but it does allow for a second slot with enhancements ie. Superior Potency on Lucid Dreams or whatever you craft on it so I guess it comes down to whichever is more useful the feat or the rune arm.

Too bad that one Fighter level doesn't bump you to 11 BAB at 20 cause than I'd look into taking it at 20 with the extra fighter feat...oh well....again I'm open to suggestion.

[Missing_Minds]

Other random idea... have her play a sorc instead for more sp. *shrug* seriously, as was stated, SLAs are the best.

Then again... she's got growing pains (as a caster) doesn't she, and she wants to lead kill count, make things go boom constantly, doesn't she? Seriously, with that sort of a mind, eternal wands. Heck, at the low levels they out do any ranged archer.

[Theolin]

I noticed when I was playing my wiz is that if you have a bunch of small fights you will run out of SPs about 1/2 to the shrine in easy quests.
Because of this I learned to try to have just a couple of big fights, basically run till you get orange alert then throw a crowd control spell and a AOE damage spell.
This way usually leads to having enough SPs most of the time, unfortunately it also requires the party to help, if they will not / can not then as a wiz you will run out of SPs and there is nothing you can do.
Another problem is SLA's are great for soloing but really don't do enough damage when in a large party to make much of a dent in the inflated HPs of the mobs and they have a murderously slow cool down.

Now when you splash 2 rogue in there it gets even worse, personally I love the build, though it has its SP limitations until you get enough gear. With enough good gear its not that noticeable at levels 16+, I usually play this type with max int, almost max con & decent strength, this way in lower levels a little bulls, bears, masters touch, haste, blur...., and a heightened CC spell(I am partial to web though there are others) and swing away till they are dead, then somewhere around fire wall things change :) although you really do need to learn / practice / become great at the sprint gather and nuke method.

Good luck, try changing some stats around, also when the 2nd level of rogue is taken will play a major role in how fun it can be, to early and it is too much of a drain on SPs too late and you will miss evasion when it begins to shine.

Edit: as an aside a 18/2 build also requires 2 sets of gear both have to be more on the exceptional side to make it work unlike what a straight 20 who only needs decent gear because they have less "things" that have to be slotted to "preform their" "roles"

Hope this helps

[Failedlegend]

Other random idea... have her play a sorc instead for more sp. *shrug* seriously, as was stated, SLAs are the best.

Then again... she's got growing pains (as a caster) doesn't she, and she wants to lead kill count, make things go boom constantly, doesn't she? Seriously, with that sort of a mind, eternal wands. Heck, at the low levels they out do any ranged archer.

Hmmm...Sorc...I might be able to convince her to do that and personally I wouldn't my an Elemental Savant around boosting our Elemental Damage. Probably Air Savant. I still want to TRY to build that XBOW wielding Wizard in case she turns down the Sorc but here's two quick Mock-up anyways (Probably Air or Earth Savant) fleshy and Warforged.

First the Air Savant Half-Elf..the more Versatile of the Two...uses Dilly for self-healing


Half-Elf Sorc 20 (Air Savant)

Str 10
Con 16
Int 12
Cha 18 (Lvl ups here)

HE Pally Dilly (+5 Saves & Free Divine Wand/Scroll Use FTW)
1 Toughness
3 Empower
6 Maximize
9 DM1
12 DM2
15 Heighten
18 DM3

Skills: UMD, Concen, Diplo


The second of the two can be any Savant..and of course uses repair to self heal but is far more focused than the first build...slightly lower Cha though. Personally I can't stand being a warforged caster with the current Beefcake model but she might not mind.



Warforged Sorc 20 (Likely Air or Earth Savant but open to suggestion)

Con 20
Cha 16 (Lvl ups here)

1 Extend
3 Empower
6 Maximize
9 Toughness
12 SF: Conj
15 Heighten
18 Quicken

Skills: Concentration

The MAIN problem with this is we lose our trapsmith...my Monkchersai only has Open Lock..same with my Bone Knight that our 4th meber is thinking of playing..maybe I can convince him to play Arty...Arty Elemental Weapon + Savant Weakness + My Monkchersai = Win? Lol that's a bit selfish though :P