A Preemptive Response: Druids being too weak or hard to use

[Diyon]

In the inevitable complaint that the upcoming druid class is either too hard to use or too underpowered, I have this to remind those that may complain:

http://images6.cpcache.com/product_zoom/190429516v3_225x225_Front_Color-White_padToSquare-true.jpg
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0358.html

[brian14]

Grroooaaaannnnnnn!

[jwdaniels]

Except for the fact that the druid in 3.5 was probably the most powerful class in the game if built correctly...

[Diyon]

Except for the fact that the druid in 3.5 was probably the most powerful class in the game if built correctly...

Oh I know. But people are still likely to say both. They did with artificer. And I covered them being difficult to play well, as back up.

[Kadriel]

I'll +1 you just for the OOTS reference

[countfitz]

Yeah, I don't think this will be the complaint.

Druids:

Benefits-Cleric Spell list with a few delayed spells, (Heal being the only important one, which comes at the same level as FvS, and they rarely complain) WITH some added Arcane Spells (Firewall). Same HPs and SPs of a Cleric. Animal Companion, which I THINK/HOPE will be working by the time the expansion comes out. Shapechanging, which in PnP was so crazy overpowered that some campaigns broke under it's uberness, especially with some of the extra feats in 3.5, but I EXPECT to be fairly balanced for DDO. A bunch of fairly cool but not overpowered class features and feats added on that provide flavor and should be balanced for DDO as well, such as poison immunity and some immunities to various (but not all) versions of slow. FOUR skill points per level.

Weaknesses: Weapon restrictions. BUT, they get Scimitars, which have the best crit profile in the game, which in DDO is all that actually matters. Limited Armor restrictions. We know what a joke that is in DDO, where it's actually BETTER to run around in pajamas than wear armor. Alignment restrictions to some form of neutral. True neutral is often considered the best choice for DDO (I disagree actually, I like using Pure Good Weapons without crafting or UMD, but I digress).

Really, the only noticeable weakness, COMPARED TO CLERICS, but NOT FVS!, is that while a druid gets as many spell options as a Cleric, the cleric's extra spells are the Heal/Cure line, which are incredibly important, the Druid will be walking around with NINE Summon Nature's ally spells, of which, especially in DDO if things stay the same, only ONE can be cast at a time, and which, in the case of Summon Monster, Casters RARELY take more than one or two of. I personally, on my cleric, take THREE, SM IX, the best, SM IV, for the lantern archon just to do Rainbow in the Dark, and SM I, only to dismiss a previous summon so it will die right away in case summons will mess up a quest. I doubt Druids will have that many uses for 9 Summon Nature's Ally spells.

Or, DDO could just ignore that all together and give them the same spell progression as FvS, even taking away firewall, and they'd still be pretty much the most powerful class in the game, even without prestige enhancements.

I'm buying them the day they come out. In fact, I'm already working on a toon JUST so it can be TR'd into one the first day. Dual scimitar elf FvS, so that everything will pass right onto the druid, ready to play.

[Havok.cry]

All I want to know is what their past life feat is going to be, so I know which of my characters will need to do 1-3 lives of it, in addition to the one Ill role to be itself.

[Diyon]

Yeah, I don't think this will be the complaint.

Druids:

Benefits-Cleric Spell list with a few delayed spells, (Heal being the only important one, which comes at the same level as FvS, and they rarely complain) WITH some added Arcane Spells (Firewall). Same HPs and SPs of a Cleric. Animal Companion, which I THINK/HOPE will be working by the time the expansion comes out. Shapechanging, which in PnP was so crazy overpowered that some campaigns broke under it's uberness, especially with some of the extra feats in 3.5, but I EXPECT to be fairly balanced for DDO. A bunch of fairly cool but not overpowered class features and feats added on that provide flavor and should be balanced for DDO as well, such as poison immunity and some immunities to various (but not all) versions of slow. FOUR skill points per level.

Weaknesses: Weapon restrictions. BUT, they get Scimitars, which have the best crit profile in the game, which in DDO is all that actually matters. Limited Armor restrictions. We know what a joke that is in DDO, where it's actually BETTER to run around in pajamas than wear armor. Alignment restrictions to some form of neutral. True neutral is often considered the best choice for DDO (I disagree actually, I like using Pure Good Weapons without crafting or UMD, but I digress).

Really, the only noticeable weakness, COMPARED TO CLERICS, but NOT FVS!, is that while a druid gets as many spell options as a Cleric, the cleric's extra spells are the Heal/Cure line, which are incredibly important, the Druid will be walking around with NINE Summon Nature's ally spells, of which, especially in DDO if things stay the same, only ONE can be cast at a time, and which, in the case of Summon Monster, Casters RARELY take more than one or two of. I personally, on my cleric, take THREE, SM IX, the best, SM IV, for the lantern archon just to do Rainbow in the Dark, and SM I, only to dismiss a previous summon so it will die right away in case summons will mess up a quest. I doubt Druids will have that many uses for 9 Summon Nature's Ally spells.

Or, DDO could just ignore that all together and give them the same spell progression as FvS, even taking away firewall, and they'd still be pretty much the most powerful class in the game, even without prestige enhancements.

I'm buying them the day they come out. In fact, I'm already working on a toon JUST so it can be TR'd into one the first day. Dual scimitar elf FvS, so that everything will pass right onto the druid, ready to play.

They could still be hard to play (ie. like monk and paladin have to do all sorts of button maneuvering).

Apologies for the rant on small points below:

Okay, this drives me nuts, but druids do not cast arcane spells! A scroll can be arcane or divine, but the spell it self is dependent on the class casting it. Clerics, FvS, Druids, Paladins, and Rangers cast only divine spells. Wizards, Sorcerers, and Bards cast only arcane spells! Yes, this means wall of fire cast by a druid is a divine spell when cast, and arcane spell failure won't apply. A Bard casting a cure spell is still casting an arcane spell, and subject to spell failure and whatnot (although bards can ignore spell failure in most cases), and can be demonstrated by getting an intercession ward by a quell: they can still cast it even though it prevents divine spell casting. I have no clue what artificer magic actually counts as.

3.5e druids have no weapon restrictions. They only have a few proficiencies but take no odd penalties for using something outside this than normally, if they get the proficiency through feat or multiclass, then they don't even get that penalty.

/end rant

Sorry lol

[DeafeningWhisper]

Someone will say that for sure, remeber the guy that wanted Arties to have heal spells because he couldn't keep himself alive? At lvl 3?

[Memek]

Druid strength depends on how they implement the Shapechange. Since all the equipment in DDO is so high-powered, it's not totally infeasible to expect a Cleric waving around a Greataxe doing more damage than a Druid turning into a Bear, gaining 30 or whatever Strength and doing 1d8 or whatever Slashing damage without breaking DR, possibly trapped in an animation with half the attack speed of regular melee.
This will decided in the enhancements, so DDO can do whatever it wants there (because feat wise, it would fall short) - so no one knows...

Spell selection is kinda nice, but FoD is rather the same as Destruction (i think FoD has a longer range but Divines are too mighty to care about such trivialities), Firewall is kinda nice to have but Divines have BB and FvS get perma Stoneskin anyways, and they dont even have to blow mana on it. Oh, and Barkskin, lol.

Of course, the nice Arti rollout does give hope. Artis fit nicely into the game without breaking the game, so i have hope for Druids to find their place without being overpowered.
But from what i've gathered, it seems to be a lesser version of FvS. Which is a very flattering thing to say i recon.

We'll see. But im not yet seeing anything that puts them on the same level as FvS. For that, the Bear shape would have to have some SERIOUS melee output. Yeah, they get a pet but how many high levels Artis are using theirs?

(And no, DDO Druids wont be able to shapechange into whatever they desire)