More useless hirelings...

[mobrien316]

I was trying to do Valak's Mausoleum with my 8th level fighter and Shadow (8th level hireling rogue) along for the traps. It is a sixth level quest and I was doing it on elite for the bravery bonus.

Shadow cannot see ANY of the trapboxes unless I activate his skill boost. Not even one. He is a clueless, worthless automaton. I happen to know where the trapboxes are in this quest, but I certainly don't know where every trap box in the game is located.

If you go with the idea that a level six quest on elite is essentially a level eight quest, then Shadow was running an at-level quest where he couldn't spot a single trapbox. Is this some sort of cruel joke by the devs?

What's next? Arcane hirelings who inexplicably wear plate mail and carry tower shieilds so they can only cast spells once in a while?


At-level rogue hirelings should be able to spot all the trapboxes in a quest. I would be willing to bet that every single rogue PC in the game has a +Spot item they wear when questing, and a +Search item they swap in when they sense a trapbox. I know my rogue certainly does. Is it that unreasonable to hire a professional mercenary and expect them to be able to do the job for which they were hired?

Of course, Shadow probably belongs to the same Hireling Union that produces fighters who spend the first sixty seconds of a quest hitting oozes with their greatsword and then spend the remainder of the quest punching the mobs.

[AZgreentea]

It might have been too tough for him as a hireling at level or in an elite quest.

As a real life player I can go to the Auction House and buy myself the best +Search item I can find. You play a rogue by switching out gear for traps (even as a mechanic) and then going back to your combat gear.

A hireling has to have their gear equipped at all times. That means they have to have a balance between trap and lock gear and gear that will let them be effective in the rest of the quest. If you give them only the best trap gear, that takes away 4 item prefix/suffix spots that would have been used for melee (open, disable, search, spot).

[Garumn]

Ran, er, tried to run the Aurum quest in Gianthold last night with my Rog 13, Keth'am Breakwind and the dwarf cleric Flagon Moron for a bit of XP to push me over the top to 14. Ugh. They had no problems grabbing aggro for me to assassinate and sneak attack at will, BUT the little runt Flagon would NOT heal anyone nor would Breakwind do anything but run charging blindly forward trying to throw spells around as he's being chopped to ribbons. Even clicking from Aggressive to Defensive to Passive and back multiple times (which seems to help every now and again) did little to help. Needless to say, the boss fight at the end was a nightmare: sneak in, grab soulstones, sneak back to shrine, res, heal, try other tactic that was equally worthless, grab soulstones, etc. Ugh. I have never been happier to complete a quest, even after seemingly 34 hours. Oh, I forgot that I brought Barrage and the female cleric 12 after the first hireling wipe at the boss. That probably helped a few minutes or I would still be running soul stones back and forth...

[mobrien316]

I solo a lot and the hirelings are simply awful.

I tried using Fergus (8th level cleric hireling) in The Troglodytes Get just now, and EVERY single time I needed a heal I had to click on myself, then click on his bar to have him cast a heal at me. Every single time. I tried him on passive mode, on active mode, and on "defend me" mode.

When I click on the little feet on his toolbar, I assume that indicates that he is to follow me when I move. He must think differently, because I have to click on the little feet every goddamned time I move or he will just stand there.


Devs, please fix the hirelings' AI, or give us heal pots, or give us a hireling we can choose at level one character creation and keep with us through the game, choosing their armor/weapons/skills/whatever.

[Grosbeak07]

Don't use hirelings. Run with Guildies. :rolleyes:

[MrFister]

I was trying to do Valak's Mausoleum with my 8th level fighter and Shadow (8th level hireling rogue) along for the traps. It is a sixth level quest and I was doing it on elite for the bravery bonus.

Shadow cannot see ANY of the trapboxes unless I activate his skill boost. Not even one. He is a clueless, worthless automaton. I happen to know where the trapboxes are in this quest, but I certainly don't know where every trap box in the game is located.

If you go with the idea that a level six quest on elite is essentially a level eight quest, then Shadow was running an at-level quest where he couldn't spot a single trapbox. Is this some sort of cruel joke by the devs?

What's next? Arcane hirelings who inexplicably wear plate mail and carry tower shieilds so they can only cast spells once in a while?


At-level rogue hirelings should be able to spot all the trapboxes in a quest. I would be willing to bet that every single rogue PC in the game has a +Spot item they wear when questing, and a +Search item they swap in when they sense a trapbox. I know my rogue certainly does. Is it that unreasonable to hire a professional mercenary and expect them to be able to do the job for which they were hired?

Of course, Shadow probably belongs to the same Hireling Union that produces fighters who spend the first sixty seconds of a quest hitting oozes with their greatsword and then spend the remainder of the quest punching the mobs.

I've noticed in every at-level-elite-for-bravery quest I've run with a rogue hireling that they will not spot anything until I give them GH.

[Sillk]

I tried to run Tear of Dhakaan (level 7) on elite (so now level 9) with a level 9 hireling rogue and had the same result. I was able to use my GH clickie to get him to find trap boxes.... but he was unable to find them without GH.

I can see all other hirelings being a little below par.... but you can only buy a Rogue at the DDO Store using Turbine Points.... They should be up to the (at level) task.

If they're going to suck, make them available to everyone from the Hireling Vendors.

[VarthDomarr]

I tried to run Tear of Dhakaan (level 7) on elite (so now level 9) with a level 9 hireling rogue and had the same result. I was able to use my GH clickie to get him to find trap boxes.... but he was unable to find them without GH.

I can see all other hirelings being a little below par.... but you can only buy a Rogue at the DDO Store using Turbine Points.... They should be up to the (at level) task.

If they're going to suck, make them available to everyone from the Hireling Vendors.

Absolutely agree! If we are going to spend good money at the DDO store for a rogue, then it should be level compatible and NOT need GH or anything more than an INT boost or DEX boost to accomplish the task on ELITE. After all, if they are going to be so useless (i.e. NO backstab on AGRESSIVE mode, NO tripping or stunning from the shadows on DEFENSIVE mode, etc...), then they should do the job they were purchased for. I wouldn't even mind if 1 out of 20 times the trap they were trying to disarm blew up!!! (rolled a "1"). At least that would be more realistic and NO hireling is perfect.

[VarthDomarr]

I solo a lot and the hirelings are simply awful.

I tried using Fergus (8th level cleric hireling) in The Troglodytes Get just now, and EVERY single time I needed a heal I had to click on myself, then click on his bar to have him cast a heal at me. Every single time. I tried him on passive mode, on active mode, and on "defend me" mode.

When I click on the little feet on his toolbar, I assume that indicates that he is to follow me when I move. He must think differently, because I have to click on the little feet every goddamned time I move or he will just stand there.


Devs, please fix the hirelings' AI, or give us heal pots, or give us a hireling we can choose at level one character creation and keep with us through the game, choosing their armor/weapons/skills/whatever.

I have played this game since it came out and swung all us Asheron's Call players to the world of DDO (so many, many years). Up until the last update, the hirelings actually did heal you and other party members without having to be instructed to do so (at least on aggressive/offensive). It actually got quite irritating when your hireling cleric spent ALL of his/her mana points trying to heal your Devil or Air Elemental or Spider, etc...! But I too have noticed this huge swing in the "retardation" of the AI of the hireling !! Why did DDO need to do this? Was it a flaw in the update? Was it intentional? Why?

[somenewnoob]

There is no doubt hirelings are complete idiots and that you usually have a 50/50 chance of the hireling helping you or completely effing something up.

But as far as elite traps go, they SHOULD be tough to disable/spot/search imo. Hell I've run with real player rogues over level who couldn't do some elite traps!

I solo a lot and elite traps are the bane of my existence, they have caused my non disabling ass more death that I care to reveal publicly, but for elite, I think they should be hard to do. I don't expect to walk into every quest on elite with a cleric hire and expect that hire to be able to perform as well as a player controlled cleric, this is the advantage of running with other real people. And the same goes with a rogue.

[mobrien316]

Don't use hirelings. Run with Guildies. :rolleyes:

My first look is always to any appropriate-level guildmates when any are on, D.

:-)

[drwho1985]

I agree with almost everything here. Sure, hires have caused me to fail by not healing me, not healing the proper NPC, or killing the wildman slaves.

However, my soulstone has been picked up by my hireling AND successfully taken to a shrine more times than I can count. I do not play well with others, so I use the plat/us dollar hires alot.

They could use an IQ boost for sure.

[FranOhmsford]

I was trying to do Valak's Mausoleum with my 8th level fighter and Shadow (8th level hireling rogue) along for the traps. It is a sixth level quest and I was doing it on elite for the bravery bonus.

Shadow cannot see ANY of the trapboxes unless I activate his skill boost. Not even one. He is a clueless, worthless automaton. I happen to know where the trapboxes are in this quest, but I certainly don't know where every trap box in the game is located.

If you go with the idea that a level six quest on elite is essentially a level eight quest, then Shadow was running an at-level quest where he couldn't spot a single trapbox. Is this some sort of cruel joke by the devs?

What's next? Arcane hirelings who inexplicably wear plate mail and carry tower shieilds so they can only cast spells once in a while?


At-level rogue hirelings should be able to spot all the trapboxes in a quest. I would be willing to bet that every single rogue PC in the game has a +Spot item they wear when questing, and a +Search item they swap in when they sense a trapbox. I know my rogue certainly does. Is it that unreasonable to hire a professional mercenary and expect them to be able to do the job for which they were hired?

Of course, Shadow probably belongs to the same Hireling Union that produces fighters who spend the first sixty seconds of a quest hitting oozes with their greatsword and then spend the remainder of the quest punching the mobs.

Do you have Augment Summoning on that character?


I've noticed in every at-level-elite-for-bravery quest I've run with a rogue hireling that they will not spot anything until I give them GH.

Do you have Augment Summoning on any character?


I tried to run Tear of Dhakaan (level 7) on elite (so now level 9) with a level 9 hireling rogue and had the same result. I was able to use my GH clickie to get him to find trap boxes.... but he was unable to find them without GH.

I can see all other hirelings being a little below par.... but you can only buy a Rogue at the DDO Store using Turbine Points.... They should be up to the (at level) task.

If they're going to suck, make them available to everyone from the Hireling Vendors.

Again - Very useful feat as it buffs hirelings stats by four points giving them an extra 2 to spot, search and disable.
It also buffs summons of all types.

I will agree that the Lvl 9 rogue {Corbin} seems to be gimped traps wise - I've seen him crit fail in Chamber of Insanity {Elite = Lvl 7}.
Even without Augment Summoning this shouldn't be possible. No I did not have Augment Summoning on that character {I can't take it on everyone unfortunately}.

[Aeolwind]

To paraphrase the devs recently:

Hirelings are broken? We thought they were working really well internally....

[Gremmlynn]

If I'm not mistaken, while elite quests are rated at 2 levels over normal for xp and loot purposes, they are more on the order of 5 levels over as far as difficulty is concerned. So, I would expect a rogue, whether player or hireling, to need to take some extra measures to disable the traps and I wouldn't expect them to be able to spot them often at all (spot being a wisdom skill and all).

[Aeolwind]

Do you have Augment Summoning on that character?

Do you have Augment Summoning on any character?



You shouldn't be required to have a feat in addition to paying TP for a hireling. Rogues should operate at max efficiency out of the box since they are only available with TP. Especially on an at level quest.

[Aeolwind]

If I'm not mistaken, while elite quests are rated at 2 levels over normal for xp and loot purposes, they are more on the order of 5 levels over as far as difficulty is concerned. So, I would expect a rogue, whether player or hireling, to need to take some extra measures to disable the traps and I wouldn't expect them to be able to spot them often at all (spot being a wisdom skill and all).

I would be inclined to agree with you if they weren't a TP purchase only. Consequently, can't you use gold seal hirelings that are 2 levels above you without an XP penalty?

[Robai]

Healers:
Please give us HEAL ONLY mode for hirelings. There is no need to zerg the quest and get as much aggro as he can (in defensive + stand ground mode), also no need to run ahead while I'm searching for traps (just try Monastery with hireling and you'll see exactly what I mean :) )
And please disable "cure light wounds" spell on lvl 20 hirelings (they should cast at least "cure serious wounds"). It really sucks when lvl 20 healer heals you by just 15 hp in the middle of the fight when you have 10% hp left (and he has almost full blue bar).

Rogue:
Never used them, but just saying that lvl 6 quest on Elite is harder than lvl 8 quest on Normal.
So it's normal to me that lvl 8 hireling fails in lvl 6 Elite quest, but he shouldn't fail in lvl 8 quests on Normal difficulty.

[Hafeal]

I have found hirelings to be pretty good, circumstances depending based on how you use them.

I think I see the theme here - the failure seems to occur on your Elite runs. Elite runs have no scaling - not optimal for hirelings. If you are running a 6th level quest on elite, even as an 8th level, you are 'at level' so to speak - with no scaling and pumped up DCs for things like traps. (EDIT: I can't pull the link atm, but as I recall the devs saying, Elite DCs on a lower level quest are are higher than Normal DCs for a higher level quest to which the Elite would = in 'level scaling' terms) .

I have found that if use Hirelings for an Elite run and they are are the proverbial 'sixth man' - they will do fine. If you are trying to solo or duo an elite quest within or near your level range, they are going to struggle as you should consider them to be untwinked newbies with no foreknowledge of the quest.

:)

[oganos]

I would be inclined to agree with you if they weren't a TP purchase only. Consequently, can't you use gold seal hirelings that are 2 levels above you without an XP penalty?

I'm pretty sure you can use them 2 levels above but they will give an XP penalty just like human player of the same level.

[FranOhmsford]

You shouldn't be required to have a feat in addition to paying TP for a hireling. Rogues should operate at max efficiency out of the box since they are only available with TP. Especially on an at level quest.


I would be inclined to agree with you if they weren't a TP purchase only. Consequently, can't you use gold seal hirelings that are 2 levels above you without an XP penalty?

The feat was available long before rogue hirelings - It helps all hirelings.
If you don't have said feat there are other ways to buff your rogue hireling - Wands of Fox's, Cats and Owls help as do Heroism, Recitation, Greater Heroism, Good Hope, Bard Songs etc if available.
Yes you can use GoldSeal hirelings 2 lvls above you now - However they cause xp penalties the same as a player {I agree that this should be changed as it makes it pointless to use them for anything other than say Restless Isles or Gianthold slayers {for locks} or Orchard, Vale for higher lvl more durable healers.
At least one of the rogue hirelings {Corbin} in my experience is gimped trapwise - Others maybe not quite as good as they should be BUT Augment Summoning is an extremely useful feat for many classes and all hireling users whether DDOStore or not {In my opinion}.

[Postumus]

Do you have Augment Summoning on that character?

Do you have Augment Summoning on any character?

Again - Very useful feat as it buffs hirelings stats by four points giving them an extra 2 to spot, search and disable.
It also buffs summons of all types.


Fran has a good point. If you use hirelings frequently in elite difficulty, then the Augment Summon is an easy way to buff them so they will be more useful there.

The DCs for traps in elite seem to be higher on average than the same level quest on normal difficulty. I've used the rogue hirelings before to get through things like Tomb of the Forbidden, Tormented, and Shadow Knight on elite before and they performed better than I expected, but I think they were higher level than the quest by at least one rank.

[sk3l3t0r]

The experiences I had with hirelings this past weekend (not sure if it's by deisgn or not) but they appear to be bugs.

- I have 1 standard hireling (The kind you buy with plat) summoned, and have 1+ gold seal contracts in my inventory (but not summoned). The timmer counts down on ALL your contracts (reproducible, I tested it a few times going in and out of public places between quests, the timers counted down on hirelings that I did not summon during the quest), not just the summoned one. BUG ??

-If you have have 1 standard hireling summoned, and standard or gold seal contracts in your inventory for different hirelings. If the timer on your summoned hireling expires, the game engine starts counting down ALL the contracts of the different hirelings (gold seal and standard) in your inventory. BUG ?? (Haven't tried to reproduce, I shouldn't be paying to QA Turbine's game...)

Gold seal contracts you can summon at any point in the quest, so I choose to summon them when I need them. The timmer shouldn't start counting down if they are not summoned.

If no hirelings are summoned the timmers don't count down. It only seems to happen when you have 1 hireling summoned and contracts sitting in your inventory.

[Gremmlynn]

The experiences I had with hirelings this past weekend (not sure if it's by deisgn or not) but they appear to be bugs.

- I have 1 standard hireling (The kind you buy with plat) summoned, and have 1+ gold seal contracts in my inventory (but not summoned). The timmer counts down on ALL your contracts (reproducible, I tested it a few times going in and out of public places between quests, the timers counted down on hirelings that I did not summon during the quest), not just the summoned one. BUG ??

-If you have have 1 standard hireling summoned, and standard or gold seal contracts in your inventory for different hirelings. If the timer on your summoned hireling expires, the game engine starts counting down ALL the contracts of the different hirelings (gold seal and standard) in your inventory. BUG ?? (Haven't tried to reproduce, I shouldn't be paying to QA Turbine's game...)

Gold seal contracts you can summon at any point in the quest, so I choose to summon them when I need them. The timmer shouldn't start counting down if they are not summoned.

If no hirelings are summoned the timmers don't count down. It only seems to happen when you have 1 hireling summoned and contracts sitting in your inventory.Once started, hireling contracts will count down whenever you take them into a quest area, whether summoned or not. Now, if you mean that not yet used contracts are are counting down, that sounds like a bug, but any contract that has been used will count down.

[sk3l3t0r]

^^OK, that's good to know :) Thank you for the information. I will make sure I leave those contracts (the ones already started) in my bank and not take them with me during quests. Or will they count down in my bank as well once i started them?

[FranOhmsford]

^^OK, that's good to know :) Thank you for the information. I will make sure I leave those contracts (the ones already started) in my bank and not take them with me during quests. Or will they count down in my bank as well once i started them?

I've noticed something rather annoying about the shared bank - If you put a hireling contract {already counting down} into the shared bank then it will keep counting down.
Make sure you put it in the standard bank and this doesn't happen.

[Lerl]

My BF put 2 half-used hires in the shared bank and logged immediately to pick them up on an alt. This took about 3 minutes, and when he pulled them from the bank, they had expired. Use caution!!

Me, I have no problems. *shrugs*

[Sleepsalot]

I have pulled them from the bank they had by mouse over 30-50 mins of time left. Went from harbor to market place Poof no Hireling. Before U-11 they lasted just fine.. Makes no difference whether in Shared bank or personal.. As for the healers there are some that have improved Some are dumber then a truck load of bricks.. Has gotten to where when the get a dumb attack, I assign them to who ever I am questing with.. And they assign theirs to me.. That seems to work some what better..Most the Rogues are not so good.

Sleeps :D :) :D

[umeannothing]

I have played this game since it came out and swung all us Asheron's Call players to the world of DDO (so many, many years). Up until the last update, the hirelings actually did heal you and other party members without having to be instructed to do so (at least on aggressive/offensive). It actually got quite irritating when your hireling cleric spent ALL of his/her mana points trying to heal your Devil or Air Elemental or Spider, etc...! But I too have noticed this huge swing in the "retardation" of the AI of the hireling !! Why did DDO need to do this? Was it a flaw in the update? Was it intentional? Why?


They broke hirelings with the release of Update 11, not U12.


Massive fail on that one. I still do not get why the AI for them can't be rolled back.

Almost like someone forgot to do a back-up of the data before they made hirelings more aggressive. At least the Cleric hires heal party members now, occasionally, but I would gladly give that up to have them rolled back to the pre U11 AI.

[AZgreentea]

I have pulled them from the bank they had by mouse over 30-50 mins of time left.
Thats an error I have seen around for a while. If you log out of the client, and come back later, the correct time displays and they are paused. At least in my experience. I have had about 10 hirelings I outleveled in the banks of different characters for three months to a year now (because I passed them down and havent used them yet). They all have less than the 1 hour left on their clocks, but they are paused.

[FranOhmsford]

Thats an error I have seen around for a while. If you log out of the client, and come back later, the correct time displays and they are paused. At least in my experience. I have had about 10 hirelings I outleveled in the banks of different characters for three months to a year now (because I passed them down and havent used them yet). They all have less than the 1 hour left on their clocks, but they are paused.

Paused while in the shared bank - BUT as soon as you take it out of that bank it goes into your inv and disappears.

This has happened to me 2 or 3 times so now I just throw hires away when I delete a toon - hoping not to have to delete any more but probably will sometime in the future.

[Sleepsalot]

Hate to say but I went rounds with Customer support made Screen shots to back my self up.. They clearly show the issue.. And we are talking like 20 hirelings Gold seal and pay with plat. All the same issue and different levels..Even look at the Buy back no Hireling were there..

Sleeps :D :) :D


Thats an error I have seen around for a while. If you log out of the client, and come back later, the correct time displays and they are paused. At least in my experience. I have had about 10 hirelings I outleveled in the banks of different characters for three months to a year now (because I passed them down and havent used them yet). They all have less than the 1 hour left on their clocks, but they are paused.

[AZgreentea]

Paused while in the shared bank - BUT as soon as you take it out of that bank it goes into your inv and disappears.

This has happened to me 2 or 3 times so now I just throw hires away when I delete a toon - hoping not to have to delete any more but probably will sometime in the future.
That might be it then. I moved it between shared and regular bank, but once I had it in (before logging out for the night) it never left the bank., even when it expired and went to "Time Remaing: -" I havent seen them disappear when dragged back to the inv.