High Magic world vs. Moderate Magic World

[eldervamp]

Greetings...

As you all know Eberron is a High Magic world, so 99.9% of our gear is all magical.

Now Forgotten Realms is a Moderate to Low magic world setting.

Do you think they will lower the magic item drop rate, or will it be Eberron with new Forgotten Realm curtains?

[der_kluge]

You never played Balder's Gate, did you?

"Oh look, another 30 useless +1 swords. Just trash those..."

[voodoogroves]

Greetings...

As you all know Eberron is a High Magic world, so 99.9% of our gear is all magical.

Now Forgotten Realms is a Moderate to Low magic world setting.

Do you think they will lower the magic item drop rate, or will it be Eberron with new Forgotten Realm curtains?

I can't believe you think FR is "moderate to low magic" ;-)

Eberron is more "magic replacing technology" ... more mundane magic ... lightning rails, airships, etc.. FR is certainly more "high magic".

[Cyr]

I do not consider any setting which has high magic rules to explain some of the places in the world (and not just one or two) to be a low magic setting.

Forgotten Realms does not have tons of places where they use a ton of minor magics to replicate technology, but they have more then their fair share of magic on the actual powerful end of things.

[Combat_Wombat]

They have lots of magic they are just to dumb to think of all the cool things to do with it

[cryptblitzer]

They have lots of magic they are just to dumb to think of all the cool things to do with it

lol so true.....oh and i love your signature thing funny as hell :)

[Asmodeus451]

by "low magic" i think he is reffering to thae fact magic is far less common in FR than Eberron

[Urjak]

I do not consider any setting which has high magic rules to explain some of the places in the world (and not just one or two) to be a low magic setting.

Forgotten Realms does not have tons of places where they use a ton of minor magics to replicate technology, but they have more then their fair share of magic on the actual powerful end of things.

^this

Ebberon is more of a modern setting with all the modern stuff we are used to ... they just work with magic instead of gas/electricity ... you have airship, those weirdo caravans and ligthning rail instead of planes, trucks and trains ... and they use magic instead of gas/electricity ...

In FR there is less magic when it comes to those weirdo magical constructs which are essentially modern machines and not every peasent can just take the next airship to visit his aunt in a 1000 miles away city ... but that doesnt mean there is less magic ... in FR you would simply hire a mid level wizard to teleport you to whereever you want ... no need for crazy airships ... and when it comes to planar traveling ... thats even easier in FR than in Ebberon ... just go find the next portal and the key for it ... or hire a wizard/cleric and off you go ...

FR opposed to Ebberon has about the same level of magic ... probably even higher level of magic ... its just not as ubiquitous ... its more focused in mage guilds and the like ... yeah not every plain streetlamp works with magic ... but that doesnt mean there is a lack of it ... just more concentrated

[eldervamp]

Greetings...

You are right in saying that they have the same type of magic but it is everywhere in Eberron. Read the novels, most of the main charcters in Forgotten Realms have only 2 -4 magic items (even at high levels), while in Eberron mid level town guards have more magic items than that.

I hope that they tone down the magic items in Forgotten Realms to give it a more dark and gritty feel. More like the PnP game and novels.

[Asmodeus451]

Greetings...

You are right in saying that they have the same type of magic but it is everywhere in Eberron. Read the novels, most of the main charcters in Forgotten Realms have only 2 -4 magic items (even at high levels), while in Eberron mid level town guards have more magic items than that.

I hope that they tone down the magic items in Forgotten Realms to give it a more dark and gritty feel. More like the PnP game and novels.



while this is true, i feel you are forgetting that this will be the Underdark. Among Drow in FR, magic is AT LEAST as common as it is in Eberron (i cite Salvatore's Drizzt Series as my source)

[Caliban]

Claiming that the "Forgotten Realms" is not a high magic setting only indicates that you don't know the Realms that well.

The Forgotten Realms has had much more, and more powerful magic than is usual in Eberron. The gods have been cast from the heavens and walked amongst the mortal populace, mortals have been elevated to gods, they "Chosen" mortals who are imbued with great powers by the gods, and groups of epic level bad guys. And about a dozen other insanely powerful magic system, magic items, or magical races/people.

Eberron has a more "low level" magic that is commonplace, but the Forgotten Realms has more powerful magic, and it's pretty commonplace at the higher echelons of power.

[luvirini]

Forgotten Realms is definitely a high magic place. The power of many of those using magic there is tremendous.

Eberron is more a medium magic place, where the power of magic seems less.

Though, when talking about how common magic is, Eberron is a "Magic is everywhere" whereas Forgotten Realms "Magic is fairly rare"

So:
Eberron: Common, medium magic.
FR:Fairly common, High magic.

[Angelus_dead]

As you all know Eberron is a High Magic world, so 99.9% of our gear is all magical.
Now Forgotten Realms is a Moderate to Low magic world setting.
Wow, is that a joke?

That's exactly backwards: Forgotten Realms is a high magic setting and Eberron is a low magic setting.

Forgotten Realms is filled with ultra-wizards, demons, angels, constructs, Elminster, Selune, Thay, Gond, Moander, Harpers, Waterdeep, Undermountain, Menzoberanzan...

It has SO much more magic power than Eberron that it isn't even funny. Apparently you were misled because Eberron has widespread distribution of magic items... but those are merely weak magic items that substitute for early 20th-century technology. A few million +1 longswords doesn't make a high-magic world.

[dunklezhan]

my experience of FR vs eberron in terms of magic items and PnP setting is that FR is a fewer number of magic items, but they are of a far, far higher power level than Eberron. Not so many fewer that all my characters didn't have all slots full of items by L12 however. Whereas Eberron has magic items everywhere, but it is mostly of low level, or combined low level effects.

Of course, in DDO:EU we have both - we have magic everywhere and a lot of it is high power. Neither FR nor Eberron PnP have anything even remotely close to Greensteel in terms of power as far a I know (I am speaking of the original Eberron PnP, where essentially the most powerful non-demon necromancer in the world was L16 and the LoB is L12, not the Eberron of recent PnP which is the usual full level range setting and which I know very little else about).

So I don't know where that leaves DDO:FRU, frankly.

[rdasca]

I thought the OP was going the reverse way with his title, oh well.

Eberron is "Steam Punk Magic"

Kind of like "neat trick there" or "wow that makes life so much easier"

FR is "High Magic"

Kind of like "OH MY GODS!, you just changed the course of the multi-verse with that spell!!!"

[Handpicked]

The magic in FR is waaay more prevalent than Ebberon. Alot of what is here is tech not magic, or a cross.

As soon as we get the Wish spell you'll see. Something else not factored in perhaps is divine magic vs arcane.
The gods in FR have an active role and reward or punish mortals for following or straying from their paths... all the way up to demigodhood or neg'd levels and reduction of divine abilities.

[Chauncey1]

lol so true.....oh and i love your signature thing funny as hell :)

Yeah. Totally gonna swipe that saying. I will give credit though!

[Lehmu]

I wouldn't consider Eberron a low magic world, or even a moderate magic one.

It's a place where...

Elementals are bound to ships in order to make them fly, or sail faster.
A nation was destroyed in a magical catastropy.
Sentient golems walk about freely.
An ancient continent was essentially bombed to the stone age in a clash of two (or three, depending on viewpoint) magical races.
Archfiend grade demons and other horrors are bound deep underground with the powes of a magical race.
Planes can and will get so close together that planar travel becomes possible without any spellcasting.

and that's just off the top of my head.

[Vormaerin]

I wouldn't consider Eberron a low magic world, or even a moderate magic one.


It depends on your definition, really.

Eberron has a lot of magic. But the Forgotten Realms has ginormous numbers of archmages, gods, demons, and epic **** going on all the time. You can't shake a stick in Faerun without hitting at least one, often more, archmages.

The big difference is that the "story" of the Forgotten Realms is mainly a story of its super-mages.

[Tinco]

Eberron is a high magic campaign setting as is the Forgotten Realms. The difference is however the difference between width and height. In the Forgotten Realms magic is concentrated on certain places and entities while the world in general is a feudal medieval one. In Eberron, Magic on a lower level is common and is basically used as a substitute for technology such as transportation devices, production, machinery or warfare.

[Cendaer]

They have lots of magic they are just to dumb to think of all the cool things to do with it

That's funny. You have a very scary form of logic, as evidenced by your forum signature. I like it, in the same way I like roller coasters.



FR opposed to Ebberon has about the same level of magic ... probably even higher level of magic ... its just not as ubiquitous ... its more focused in mage guilds and the like ... yeah not every plain streetlamp works with magic ... but that doesnt mean there is a lack of it ... just more concentrated

That is the bigger difference. In one realm, all magic is coveted, and even hoarded in some instances; whilst in the other, only the most powerful magics are coveted, while the lesser magics are commonly shared.




You are right in saying that they have the same type of magic but it is everywhere in Eberron. Read the novels, most of the main charcters in Forgotten Realms have only 2 -4 magic items (even at high levels), while in Eberron mid level town guards have more magic items than that.

I hope that they tone down the magic items in Forgotten Realms to give it a more dark and gritty feel. More like the PnP game and novels.

Correct again. In one realm, magic is more of a commodity, whereas in the other, it's more of a treasure.

For DDO, magic items will likely remain much the same, since they are what fuels our economy. Too much tinkering there could result in catastrophe. I suspect that the "carrot" items for the new expansion will be more along the lines of what we already know as named loot, only bearing the names and qualities of more iconic Forgotten Realms treasures.



Eberron is a high magic campaign setting as is the Forgotten Realms. The difference is however the difference between width and height. In the Forgotten Realms magic is concentrated on certain places and entities while the world in general is a feudal medieval one. In Eberron, Magic on a lower level is common and is basically used as a substitute for technology such as transportation devices, production, machinery or warfare.

...which brings us to the true difference between the two campaigns, and it's not magic.

The true difference is in the societies. Forgotten Realms is more feudal in terms of it's government; socio-political powers are concentrated in the hands a few distinct individuals. Eberron has a more decidedly modern type of socio-political structure; groups of like-minded people hold more power than individuals.

[diamabel]

You never played Balder's Gate, did you?

"Oh look, another 30 useless +1 swords. Just trash those..."


*chuckle*

Compared to what DDO offers (e.g. by crafting and item drops) you can even consider Baldur's Gate (Forgotten Realms) a low magic setting. By the end of Baldur's Gate 1 my main character (Half-Elf Fighter/Mage/Cleric) had only 20-30 hitpoints (depending on dice luck, since hit points were rolled on level up).

I rather wonder what they may throw at us to make it a challenge for Ebberon equipped characters. In Baldur's Gate 2 (and its Add-On) Bioware included these monsters:

+ Nishruu (http://dedpihto.narod.ru/games/Monsters2/fr_ms_012.htm)
+ Hakeashar (http://www.lomion.de/cmm/hakeasha.php)
+ Magic Golem (http://www.lomion.de/cmm/golemagi.php)

These are at least a challenge for parties with lots of magically enhanced toys.

[sweez]

(Half-Elf Fighter/Mage/Cleric) had only 20-30 hitpoints (depending on dice luck, since hit points were rolled on level up)

That's what 'save game' and 'load game' options were there for :p

[diamabel]

That's what 'save game' and 'load game' options were there for :p

It makes it more challenging if you don't cheat at level up. With some multiclass combinations you needed quite a few reload/level up attempts to get the maximum possible hp increase. Besides it was always a good idea to save before a level up because the programmers didn't expect someone to really have a negative constitution modifier (so you could potentially get no increase or even a decrease).


You don't need save/reload if you know what to expect and if you take appropriate precautions.

1) don't run ahead until your party is exhausted/wounded severely
2) don't use up all your tricks, because you might be surprised while resting
3) don't be afraid/lazy to go back to a safe place to rest
4) use CC where appropriate
5) use cannon fodder (summon monsters, animate dead)
6) retreat from melee if you're severely wounded
7) don't get surrounded by monsters
...

These old games you could even beat with parties of hopeless character with very bad stats. Blame the stupid AI.


p.s.
let's continue with the high magic - low magic debate

[RedDragonScale]

Forgotten Realms = High Magic
Eberron = Higher Magic

[sweez]

These old games you could even beat with parties of hopeless character with very bad stats. Blame the stupid AI.


Well yes, abusing fog of war and such stuff made it super easy, but still it was annoying to let randomness decide what my toon ends up like, I'm OCD about min-maxing :p

Anyway yeah, low magic high magic, and stuff.

[donfilibuster]

When the Eberron setting was created the goal was to make it low level, because at that time FR had evolved into a very high level setting.
WotC wanted a clean slate for PCs to make a name for themselves, explore unexplored lands, and all that.

But that's more in the level than in the type of setting, both FR and Eberron would be high magic.
Low magic would be the medieval setting where magic items are rare and you still rely on metal armor, have horses, etc.
e.g. the dragonlance setting has powerful magic but not readily available, and a king's sword is only +3.
High magic would have you using +1 from start and finding new magic items in every chest just like in DDO.
e.g. the planescape setting, in the planes coins and non-magical stuff are worthless, you trade with souls and wishes.

[arminius]

What this really means is: I bet that for almost everybody who is or has played DDO, Turbine is their only Eberron DM. Turbine went crazy on the Monty Hall escalation scale, so a lot of people generalize that that is an "Eberron" trait, not having any other frame of reference. I'm not blaming Turbine, they have to play by MMO standards over PnP ones much of the time.

Whereas for the other worlds, including FR, people have vastly more experience with a live DM, who knew better than to set the Monty Hall scale to 11, because they wanted their PnP session to survive. So they perceive those worlds as having inherently less magic.

[Aeolwind]

Both are high magic worlds, just on different scales. Prevalent vs Gawd Awful earth-shattering.

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Epic_magic

The Realms are actually on the declining side of magic. The 'Eberron' phase has passed. The floating cities created with Proctiv's Move Mountain have all but crashed, their are scant few Mythal's left. In those cities, mundane tasks in some cases were completely automated. The streets cleaned themselves, brooms worked like Roomba's, etc.

Binding demons/devils & demon/devil lords is easy....if you have their Truename.

Powerful magic was meted out to those trustworthy enough to wield it & those Chosen few in the Realms because of what happens if it is available to everyone.

[Flavilandile]

Can't resist any longer...


I wouldn't consider Eberron a low magic world, or even a moderate magic one.

It's a place where...

Elementals are bound to ships in order to make them fly, or sail faster.
A nation was destroyed in a magical catastropy.
Sentient golems walk about freely.
An ancient continent was essentially bombed to the stone age in a clash of two (or three, depending on viewpoint) magical races.
Archfiend grade demons and other horrors are bound deep underground with the powes of a magical race.
Planes can and will get so close together that planar travel becomes possible without any spellcasting.

and that's just off the top of my head.

Both are High magic.

from the above list, the following are true in Faerun too :
A nation was destroyed in a magical caclysm ( Netheril anybody ? )
An ancient continent was essentially bombed to the stone age ( Chuult ? )
Archfiend grade demons and other horrors are bound deep underground with the powes of a magical race.
( Phaerims, Orcus, ... you name it, it's there )
Planes can and will get so close together that planar travel becomes possible without any spellcasting.
( Hellgate Keep ? )
I'm sure we can finds the last two too.

The main difference is that in Eberron the magic is everywhere to do everything both small and big things either through items or through people while in FR the magic is not much present in the form of items ( yeah, +1 Swords... but +1 swords can be just plain really well made tempered steel swords and have nothing to do with magic ) and the people doing high level magic tend to do more powerful magic than those of Eberron.

In a day to day life, from a simple commoner point of view there's a lot of magic in Eberron while there's not many magic in Faerun, that's just hte difference.

[Aeolwind]

I'm sure we can finds the last two too.



Air ships from Halruaa.
There are golems, but I can't remember where I saw them.

[Dawnsfire]

I guess it depends on how you look at it. The average citizen of Eberron has far more experience with magic items then your average FR denizen but a high level PC in Faerun would probably have more personal high level magical firepower than one from Eberron.

It wouldn't matter really though. Here at DDO the 'Monty Haul' aspect of the games DMing would probably carry through regardless of the setting. Remember DM > campaign setting is the most fitting rule I can think of.