XP for level 25 TR vs. non-TR

[gloopygloop]

A capped first life character earned 1.9 million XP to reach that cap.

A capped second life character earned 3.1 million XP to reach that cap.

A capped third life character earned 4.3 million XP to reach that cap.

What are the XP tables for reaching level 25 going to look like? Are the massively (almost three times as much XP required at level 20) inflated XP requirements going to be massively inflated from level 21 through level 25 as well? Are they going to be even more inflated than level 20 is?

Should third and later life characters just accept the fact that they're going to be running quests at -99% XP for extreme repetition to squeeze out every drop of possible XP to hit those Epic levels?


A developer comment on Turbine's intentions for "Epic" XP would be very much appreciated.

[Lithic]

More likely hitting 20 unlocks the "Epic mode" of leveling, which requires exp from epic quests and is the same progression for 28pters and TR37s. TRing will also likely be unlocked at any point after hitting 20, rather than at the new cap.

[voodoogroves]

More likely hitting 20 unlocks the "Epic mode" of leveling, which requires exp from epic quests and is the same progression for 28pters and TR37s. TRing will also likely be unlocked at any point after hitting 20, rather than at the new cap.

Ya know, you're going to hit 37 before Druid is out ...

[Freeman]

Just my guess, but I wouldn't be surprised if epic levels used a different mechanic than XP. There's no way they can launch the expansion with enough quests to supply the XP needed if it followed the existing curve.(Unless they dump a lot of challenges on us and call those "quests") I have no idea how the epic levels will be implemented though, so this is just speculation.

[falcon2030]

I would love a little more info on this as well. As a slow TR leveler and working on a completionist cleric atm, I am curious if I will be spending my retirement years getting lvl 21-25 :D, of couse assuming DDO is around that long :rolleyes:

[gloopygloop]

More likely hitting 20 unlocks the "Epic mode" of leveling, which requires exp from epic quests and is the same progression for 28pters and TR37s. TRing will also likely be unlocked at any point after hitting 20, rather than at the new cap.

I very much hope that this (or something like this) will be the path that they decide to take.

[Impaqt]

I havent counted, but I'm pretty sure that there more 20+ content than any other level in the game.

If they can figure out a way to do away with repetition penalties in Epic, I think theres more than enough quests to keep people interested.

[Thrudh]

Ya know, you're going to hit 37 before Druid is out ...

Going to have to be 40 now.

[Thrudh]

More likely hitting 20 unlocks the "Epic mode" of leveling, which requires exp from epic quests and is the same progression for 28pters and TR37s. TRing will also likely be unlocked at any point after hitting 20, rather than at the new cap.

Yes, I hope this is how it works....

[Pank]

Well there is some XP in the current game that can be got for a lvl 20 (and over) character: any lvl 17 quest on elite gives no penalty XP to a lvl 20 toon, just like lvl 18 on hard and lvl 19 on norm.
On top of that you have epics which can start to give some serious XP, and this adds quite a large amout of quests: Phiarlan Carnival, Sentinels, Menechtarum, eDA...
One other thing that comes to my mind is Bravery Bonus + Bravery Streak. Come to think of it, it is even possible it was added to the game in anticipation to this level cap raise.
So for a first life toon, getting to 25 should not be some really difficult IF there is a reasonable amount of new quests in the 20-25 lvl range.

[Lithic]

Yes, I hope this is how it works....

If not, its "only" going to be 3.6mill exp from 20-25 for a TR2+ ;)

[DogMania]

You should be aware that your XP is currently being stacked so when this does come out you may find you are lvl25 already. And you ask how do I know this?, well it stated it when you capped if you bothered to notice.

[TempestAlphaOmega]

More likely hitting 20 unlocks the "Epic mode" of leveling, which requires exp from epic quests and is the same progression for 28pters and TR37s. TRing will also likely be unlocked at any point after hitting 20, rather than at the new cap.

This was my thoughts exactly as soon as I read about the epic levels.

[QuantumFX]

I fully expect all the level 25+ quests to follow the quest XP progression established in levels 17-20. Meaning: 1,000 base XP on elite for a 2 hour long quest.

[Thebeest]

You should be aware that your XP is currently being stacked so when this does come out you may find you are lvl25 already. And you ask how do I know this?, well it stated it when you capped if you bothered to notice.

if this is the case wouldn't you be only lvl 22 as you cant bank more than 1 level?

[Cyr]

More likely hitting 20 unlocks the "Epic mode" of leveling, which requires exp from epic quests and is the same progression for 28pters and TR37s. TRing will also likely be unlocked at any point after hitting 20, rather than at the new cap.

Which would still be a major disincentive from TRing unless you get to keep your epic xp when you TR as otherwise any endgame playing that you run before you TR is 'lost' XP.

[sephiroth1084]

It would be nice if the devs did a sweep and normalized XP a bit through the levels.

Just ran 2 of the Cannith flags on elite and got 12,000 and 14,000 XP respectively with first time elite +80%, Elite Bravery x5 +25%, Voice of the Master +5%, and ship XP shrine +3%. That's ****ing PITIFUL!

[KillEveryone]

Are we going to have to hit lvl 25 before we TR or will we still be able to TR at 20?

[JeisonBlade]

More likely hitting 20 unlocks the "Epic mode" of leveling, which requires exp from epic quests and is the same progression for 28pters and TR37s. TRing will also likely be unlocked at any point after hitting 20, rather than at the new cap.

see that would make sense and be logical so...i doubt thats how it will work :(

[Gremmlynn]

I havent counted, but I'm pretty sure that there more 20+ content than any other level in the game.

If they can figure out a way to do away with repetition penalties in Epic, I think theres more than enough quests to keep people interested.I would suspect some real time erosion, along the lines of chest ransack reset, of the repetition penalties. That would seem to be a win-win for Turbine as it supports selling content through player impatience to continue while not pushing them into massively expanding epic content.

Unless they really mess things up and make players wait on new releases in order for there to be enough xp available to even get the last few levels.

[DrNuegebauer]

Are we going to have to hit lvl 25 before we TR or will we still be able to TR at 20?

They are calling 21-25 "epic levels"

So best answer is that you'll be able to TR at 20 still since that is the cap of the 'normal' levels!

[twiliteslayer02]

Just my guess, but I wouldn't be surprised if epic levels used a different mechanic than XP. There's no way they can launch the expansion with enough quests to supply the XP needed if it followed the existing curve.(Unless they dump a lot of challenges on us and call those "quests") I have no idea how the epic levels will be implemented though, so this is just speculation.


OR they just give actual XP for the current epic content, and make it lev 20+ only to use.

And throw in a retro or three and the whole mess is put to rest. Until they come forth with the answers, no point in nay-saying, just chill and see what they do.

[Gremmlynn]

Well there is some XP in the current game that can be got for a lvl 20 (and over) character: any lvl 17 quest on elite gives no penalty XP to a lvl 20 toon, just like lvl 18 on hard and lvl 19 on norm.
On top of that you have epics which can start to give some serious XP, and this adds quite a large amout of quests: Phiarlan Carnival, Sentinels, Menechtarum, eDA...
One other thing that comes to my mind is Bravery Bonus + Bravery Streak. Come to think of it, it is even possible it was added to the game in anticipation to this level cap raise.
So for a first life toon, getting to 25 should not be some really difficult IF there is a reasonable amount of new quests in the 20-25 lvl range.I doubt non-epic quests will help as they will likely need to earn some sort of epic xp to gain epic levels rather than normal xp that earns class levels (To keep balance under control I would speculate that an 18/2 wiz/rogue, for example, would become an 18/2/5 wiz/rogue/(epic) at the new cap) on;y gotten from epic content. This would mean that they wouldn't be qualified for Bravery Bonus as they would be running content exclusively to epic difficulty, rather than hard or elite. That said, I wouldn't expect TR penalties effect epic xp in any way.

But that's all just speculation on my part.

[Shade]

I'd wager everyone will have the same XP requirements, but they will be '''massive''' .. Beyond what a double TR is. TRs wont change, youd still be allowed to do it as soon as you hit 20, and xp requirements remain the same. Too much work to muck with it considering they plan to release it so soon.

They said in one of the website interviews each level would be "a lot longer then a traditional mmo".

They definetely won't make it "epic difficulty" only. Thats absurd. Epic is a difficulty setting, designed to challenge the best of the best. It doesn't even give any xp for a reason. They absolutely will not EVER release a massive expansion for such a small subset of players. Nor would it be at all wise to destroy whats a core integral part of the game - multiple difficulty settings for multiple types of players.

They will market the expansion to everyone. They want everyone to buy it, casual players, new players, hardcores, even veteran VIPs will have to get it. It will obviously offer a wide range of settings to accomodate players. And as is now, even the easiest epics are not everyones cup of tea.

Im quite sure underdark will have all difficulty settings, and provide quite a bit more XP then other stuff, thus be the primary source for lvling.

But other high lvl content like amrath, house c quests/challenges will work fine too as they are sufficiently high lvl to avoid much xp penalties.

Personally I'd prefer a extremely uneven progression, tho I doubt theyd do this:
lvl21-23 = pretty fast levels, as now.
lvl24-25 = Months of work, only the most dedicated longterm players will hit 25. But this won't be a huge deal, as capstones will continue to be available at 20, and the perks for 24/25 will be minor compared to the initial power burst of 21-23.

Though they could do it as a Epic mini-TR system:
Get epic lvl5 (25), then do epic min-TR: back to 21 with some minor perks (maybe an additional action point, which will mean more with the enhancement revamp).

Though i'd like Underdarks Epic mode to be renamed to Legendary, and only allow lvl25s to try it. And I say "try".. As a lvl25 elite raid against a demi god should be near impossible.. let alone the next level above that.

[Silverleafeon]

More likely hitting 20 unlocks the "Epic mode" of leveling, which requires exp from epic quests and is the same progression for 28pters and TR37s. TRing will also likely be unlocked at any point after hitting 20, rather than at the new cap.

Nods solemnly and tries to look wise...

[Snapdragoon]

Personally I'd prefer a extremely uneven progression, tho I doubt theyd do this:
lvl21-23 = pretty fast levels, as now.
lvl24-25 = Months of work, only the most dedicated longterm players will hit 25. But this won't be a huge deal, as capstones will continue to be available at 20, and the perks for 24/25 will be minor compared to the initial power burst of 21-23.


i really hope not. im a longterm player, but i dont want to spend months trying to finish my character, if you want a stronger character that requires a grind, TR, thats what the system is for.

increasing the level cap then saying its "optional" is lame. i already really dont like this idea, and am sad that i spent lots of money on a game i might stop playing.

levels 1-25 should be accesable for all players, if they want "MOAR LEVELS!!!11!!1" TR (its what the TR system is for)

i still cant belive theres going to be a level increase, and curse the 5% that screamed for one because they were bored -_-

[Gremmlynn]

I'd wager everyone will have the same XP requirements, but they will be '''massive''' .. Beyond what a double TR is. TRs wont change, youd still be allowed to do it as soon as you hit 20, and xp requirements remain the same. Too much work to muck with it considering they plan to release it so soon.

They said in one of the website interviews each level would be "a lot longer then a traditional mmo".

They definetely won't make it "epic difficulty" only. Thats absurd. Epic is a difficulty setting, designed to challenge the best of the best. It doesn't even give any xp for a reason. They absolutely will not EVER release a massive expansion for such a small subset of players. Nor would it be at all wise to destroy whats a core integral part of the game - multiple difficulty settings for multiple types of players.

They will market the expansion to everyone. They want everyone to buy it, casual players, new players, hardcores, even veteran VIPs will have to get it. It will obviously offer a wide range of settings to accomodate players. And as is now, even the easiest epics are not everyones cup of tea.

Im quite sure underdark will have all difficulty settings, and provide quite a bit more XP then other stuff, thus be the primary source for lvling.

But other high lvl content like amrath, house c quests/challenges will work fine too as they are sufficiently high lvl to avoid much xp penalties.
-snip-
That would be the case if epic levels were to be the center piece of the expansion and not just one of the, actually rather minor compared to Druid, things it unlocks. As the F2P intro is slatted to be level 16 content, I expect the expansion content to be rated at 18-20, all with some sort of epic mechanic to them allow them to be played at 21-25.

If this is the case, there would be plenty of hooks to bring in all sorts of players without having to allow epic levels to even those incapable of epic content (which would make using the name "epic levels" seem kind of silly to me).

[sirgog]

The current XP system doesn't even work overly well from 1-20 as it is, pretty much everyone I've heard of that has TRed their main into a 36 point build has either grinded massive repetitions of quests, or has quit the game.

Hopefully MotU will fix the system, overhauling 1-20 as well as 21-25.

[Snapdragoon]

The current XP system doesn't even work overly well from 1-20 as it is, pretty much everyone I've heard of that has TRed their main into a 36 point build has either grinded massive repetitions of quests, or has quit the game.

Hopefully MotU will fix the system, overhauling 1-20 as well as 21-25.

I hope, TR was what you wanted if you wanted to grind, leave it out of the first life please

[gloopygloop]

Not a complete answer, but here's a start:


Lot of great questions in this thread and I'm just using this post as example. All questions will be answered in time, but I did want to point out a couple things.

Epic levels will use a different XP system and players will still be able to TR at level 20. TR will remain a 'heroic' feature and continue to be highly relevant.

Please excuse me for being brief, I'm in the middle of moving and have lots of packing to do.

[Shadow7375]

More likely hitting 20 unlocks the "Epic mode" of leveling, which requires exp from epic quests and is the same progression for 28pters and TR37s. TRing will also likely be unlocked at any point after hitting 20, rather than at the new cap.

Well, if it aint this, I wonder where to get the xp from once I hit 4.3 mil xp at lvl 20 to get to 25.

[Ziindarax]

The current XP system doesn't even work overly well from 1-20 as it is, pretty much everyone I've heard of that has TRed their main into a 36 point build has either grinded massive repetitions of quests, or has quit the game.

Hopefully MotU will fix the system, overhauling 1-20 as well as 21-25.

This. I cannot STAND leveling a 36 point build. Takes much too long, even with the Streak bonuses (which become almost impossible to take advantage of toward end-game as very few people are willing/able to tackle elite quests at the Shavarath range).

[InTheBox]

I hope there is some sort of conversion for xp that was banked after reaching lvl 20. I've been hitting that XP shrine before every epic run "just in case"! ;)

[voxson5]

I'ld like to echo a voice for the people that actually enjoy the leveling process.

There is more than enough xp in the game for a 36 pointer, and without rediculous grinds.

[voxson5]

... even with the Streak bonuses (which become almost impossible to take advantage of toward end-game as very few people are willing/able to tackle elite quests at the Shavarath range).


I kinda agree with this, but thats more the players wanting to play safe (but still expect to be the best even if they can't step up to join your lfm).

[Qhualor]

with BB, i didnt find it all that hard to level my toon to 20 as a 34 pointer. at 17 i lost my streak, picked it back up, than lost it at 19. it took me just as long, if not a tad shorter to cap him. of course, there is a difference in xp needed from 34 to 36, but i would assume it would take me maybe at most a week longer to cap. there is enough quests in game to not have to repeat quests to death for xp. im also the exception to most tr's. i never repeat regular quests more than 3 times (norm, hard and elite for first time bonus), i do all quests in my level range until i level and only go back to lower level quests if i need more xp to level, but only if i havent done the quest yet and i dont hold levels. by 20 i usually have around 2700 favor.

for levels 21-25 there would have to be a good reason for people to do the xp grind or why try other than to say "hey, i made it to level 25". if its going to take longer to level, than the ever popular saying fits... "grind = reward". it has to be a juicy reason for some players to grind to 25.

[Gremmlynn]

for levels 21-25 there would have to be a good reason for people to do the xp grind or why try other than to say "hey, i made it to level 25". if its going to take longer to level, than the ever popular saying fits... "grind = reward". it has to be a juicy reason for some players to grind to 25.For me they could make the reward as little as 1hp/level and it would be enough. Not that I really care about the hp, but just the sense of progress would make end game a bit more enjoyable.

But then I'm not one to grind. So it would just add another element to what I'm already doing, which is simply playing a character for the enjoyment of playing the character.

[Deathdefy]

XP currently is fine in my opinion until level 19ish just one and done-ing with Bravery and the essentially free 10% xp pots from Challenges... Then it gets unpleasant and I take it out on the mobs of Sane Asylum, Monastery and ETK.

[Nospheratus]

Here:


Lot of great questions in this thread and I'm just using this post as example. All questions will be answered in time, but I did want to point out a couple things.

Epic levels will use a different XP system and players will still be able to TR at level 20. TR will remain a 'heroic' feature and continue to be highly relevant.

Please excuse me for being brief, I'm in the middle of moving and have lots of packing to do.

[Dragavon]

This. I cannot STAND leveling a 36 point build. Takes much too long, even with the Streak bonuses (which become almost impossible to take advantage of toward end-game as very few people are willing/able to tackle elite quests at the Shavarath range).

I do not understand your problem. My last two 36 point characters capped without setting their foot on Amrath....

[noinfo]

I do not understand your problem. My last two 36 point characters capped without setting their foot on Amrath....

Because many people (not all or most even) find the TR system boring. It is not challenging or even fun yet it is currently the only way to progress your character itself. This is fine for some people not for others. Personally I would like a the epic levels system to take forever to reach level 25 but have progression points along the way, and have power increases along the same lines as TR's possible not stacking beyond what we have now. Provided of course that epic levels 21+ can group regardless of level, though TBH I think level 20+ should be able to group without xp penalty etc, after all a 3+ life level 20 maybe as powerful as a level 22 epic level we do not know yet how it will work. People who want to continue to TR will not be short changed and those who want to run end game can as well with a form of progression.

[Shade]

i really hope not. im a longterm player, but i dont want to spend months trying to finish my character, if you want a stronger character that requires a grind, TR, thats what the system is for.

increasing the level cap then saying its "optional" is lame. i already really dont like this idea, and am sad that i spent lots of money on a game i might stop playing.

levels 1-25 should be accesable for all players, if they want "MOAR LEVELS!!!11!!1" TR (its what the TR system is for)

i still cant belive theres going to be a level increase, and curse the 5% that screamed for one because they were bored -_-

To "finish" your character?
That idea kind of blatantly flies in the face of the entire puprose mmos. You can't finish DDO. You can't finish your character. Thats not what an mmo is.

And telling me, or anyone else to replay the low lvls as some way of advancement instead of playing the endgame is garbage. I'm sick of the low levels, I never enjoyed them in the first place. I always had more fun every time they upd the lvl cap, and hope this will be the same.

So no, don't curse me. Don't curse anyone. We can all have fun in the expansion, and it can cater to a huge variety of players.

The ones who whine about not being "complete" anymore.. Have much more serious issues to worry about anyways.

DDO is a game to spend some time on and have fun, its not one you will ever complete.

If you want to complete/finish something, try a singleplayer game.

The way I see it, level25 is only the begining of epic levels. They go to 40. So get all your characters to 25.. You still won't "finish" them.

[Such755]

I don't know about the exp required for level 21-25, but I sure hope they will let us TR at level 20, and make level 21-25 the "Epic levels".

[Kits]

I don't know about the exp required for level 21-25, but I sure hope they will let us TR at level 20, and make level 21-25 the "Epic levels".


This has already been confirmed, no need to hope.