Large bones. Please give us exchange NPC.

[SSFWEl]

I know this has been raised before. And the new reward system has helped, somewhat. Thank you devs for that. But even that is borked and I only twice got options for larges, in 13 runes, of them 4 Hards.

After 21 shroud runs, I got over 19 large bones, exactly 3 lds, 2 stone, 2 chains and 3 shraps. So I still cannot finish my single rad weapon I am trying to make. To make my "single supreme" HP item I begged my guildies to help, and they did.

A short search of the forums reveals that the high bone drop issue is a long standing one.
True, many players end up with excess bones, because you need them less, but I hear from a lot of players, and my own experience has showed me, that bones drop a LOT. Far more than any other mat.

Best idea that came up from the posts was an exchange NPC. Whether a 3:1 or 5:1 ratio, an exchange NPC would be very very nice. You can do it in GH, and Reavers, so why not for GS?

So I raise the issue again.

Please give us an exchange NPC.

I would like to TR and I would like to do it with at least one GS weapon.

[NaturalHazard]

I know this has been raised before. And the new reward system has helped, somewhat. Thank you devs for that. But even that is borked and I only twice got options for larges, in 13 runes, of them 4 Hards.

After 21 shroud runs, I got over 19 large bones, exactly 3 lds, 2 stone, 2 chains and 3 shraps. So I still cannot finish my single rad weapon I am trying to make. To make my "single supreme" HP item I begged my guildies to help, and they did.

A short search of the forums reveals that the high bone drop issue is a long standing one.
True, many players end up with excess bones, because you need them less, but I hear from a lot of players, and my own experience has showed me, that bones drop a LOT. Far more than any other mat.

Best idea that came up from the posts was an exchange NPC. Whether a 3:1 or 5:1 ratio, an exchange NPC would be very very nice. You can do it in GH, and Reavers, so why not for GS?

So I raise the issue again.

Please give us an exchange NPC.

I would like to TR and I would like to do it with at least one GS weapon.

you where lucky it took me around 38 completions to get my first LDS,

Im sure theres going to be a few people on here /not signing because it will lessen the grind, not enough grind people will leave the game will die. I personally dont know of anyone who left the game because they got all the the loot they needed.

i got a lot of bones but I got a lot more chains.

I also get a lot of arrow heads, in shroud and everywhere and lately stones. It would of been good when you could swap 2-3 stones for a LDS but now no one is willing.

[Forzah]

I haven't noticed any difference between droprates of large ingredients here. I'm getting all of em pretty uniformly, but usually have a lack of scales and stones because they are used more. If there really was a higher droprate of bones, you'd often see at least 4 large bones total in the final chest; I've never seen more than 3 in total for the party in 250 runs. I've also had streaks of 4 large scales in a row, and the streaks are there for other ingredients as well.

I wouldn't mind large gnawed bonus being removed from the game though, and replaced by large chains in the recipes, so that ingredients are divided more evenly over the recipies.

[Forgeborn]

Issue isn't with the droprate, it's mostly with the recipes that we find so 'normal' requiring large amounts of scales/stones/shrap, and barely any bones. Personally I'm rather amused at people complaining about a lack of scales, since I have it exactly the other way around...

My own runs yielded: ~60-100 runs of shroud on assorted characters, NO farming, always completing since day 1
~10 large bones
~30 of each non-specified large mat
~40+ large scales

Of course, I know this is a luxery position, and it's pretty easy to find people that are willing to chuck bones at me (either free, or in trade for other larges) since they seem to be swimming in em.

[Muspellsheimr]

A short search of the forums reveals that the high bone drop issue is a long standing one.
True, many players end up with excess bones, because you need them less, but I hear from a lot of players, and my own experience has showed me, that bones drop a LOT. Far more than any other mat.


Forum reports are likely skewed because, as you noted, bones are needed less, giving an APPARANT surplus in the drop rate.

As far as I can tell however, the drop rate seems to be fairly uniform on the large scale. That being said, few individual players will actually experience a uniform drop rate until aproaching a bare minimum of 100 larges, simply due to how probability distribution works.

I personally have completed twelve normal Shroud runs. I have acquired a *minimum* of one large each run. A few days ago, I traded away HALF of my large devil scales for other ingredients to complete my first Green Steel, leaving me with one bone remaining (I only used one). I had more than twice as many scales drop as any other single ingredient. The one run I have completed after that had two larges - one of them another devil scale.


Edit: While being able to trade ingredients for others at an NPC would be useful, the real problem is uneven demand; scales are simply used FAR more often than bones. Idealy, they should first work on the greensteel recepies to even out the ingredient requirements (& improve the less useful ones, to even out the demand).

[SSFWEl]

I have acquired a *minimum* of one large each run.

Edit: While being able to trade ingredients for others at an NPC would be useful, the real problem is uneven demand; scales are simply used FAR more often than bones. Idealy, they should first work on the greensteel recepies to even out the ingredient requirements (& improve the less useful ones, to even out the demand).



You ALWAYS get at LEAST one large :)
An NPC would solve the balance problem easily, without needing to mess around with recipes. And can be easily implemented.

It just pretty annoying that after 21 runs, witch is 53 days of play MINIMUM and of course I was unable to run them exactly every 2days 16 hours, so this is over 70 days) I still can't craft a single weapon. And the only item I made is gimped.

[Miow]

/not signed

The system is random find other ways to acquire lds.

Trade rare items
Trade scrolls
Trade frds
Run multiple toons in the shroud you will get some eventually.

[SSFWEl]

why?

I put in the time
I put in the effort
I run eDA
I run Amarath
I spent 70-80 days. enough.

And while statistically overall the drop rates might be equal, I, as a single unit, clearly fall somewhere on the edges of the bell curve. So why should I suffer? I am not looking here for a spell storing ring or saying to up the drops of rare loot. Just give me a way to exchange my effort and my time.

Oh, and I bet you have at LEAST 2 double shard items and 2 II weapons. Easy for you to say...

So you want me to spend more time, to maybe, maybe, get another rare item, just to trade it for items that are not, technically, rare? And again, I seem to be on the edges of the bell curve here too.
Scrolls are a different grind. Don't mix grinds please. You would have me focus my entire game on one aspect because I seem to be unlucky?

All I want is the opportunity to get the same as other people for the same effort. For normal stuff. Again, I am not talkign about "rare" stuff. I don't begrudge the guy who pulls a +4 tome. I don't mind if I never loot one. But GS?






/not signed

The system is random find other ways to acquire lds.

Trade rare items
Trade scrolls
Trade frds
Run multiple toons in the shroud you will some eventually.

[Madryoch]

it is not the droprate the issue here... it's the fact that dual shard gs items often require 5-6 lds while they only need 2 bones. This is why bones are stacking up in our bags. I agree with you though ... they need to fix this somewhat.

[Miow]

why?

I put in the time
I put in the effort
I run eDA
I run Amarath
I spent 70-80 days. enough.

And while statistically overall the drops rates might be equal, I, as a single unit, clearly fall somewhere on the edges of the bell curve. So why should I suffer? I am not looking here for a spell storing ring or saying requesting to up the drops of rare loot. Just give me a way to exchange my effort.

Oh, and I bet you have at LEAST 2 double shard items and 2 II weapons. Easy for you to say...

So you want me to spend more time, to possibly get another rare item, just to trade for items that are not, technically, rare? And again, I seem to be on the edges of the bell curve here too.
Only GOT a few scroll, that I used. And I grinded for them too. Don't mix grinds please.

Okay why don't we just make trade ins for everything item in the game? Just so people like you can make their items easily. I hate to break it to you twenty one shrouds is nothing, you need to put in more work and the stuff will come.

When you you have run 150 shrouds, come back here and complain if you don't have enough then. EZ right.

[NaturalHazard]

Okay why don't we just make trade ins for everything item in the game? Just so people like you can make their items easily. I hate to break it to you twenty one shrouds is nothing, you need to put in more work and the stuff will come.

When you you have run 150 shrouds, come back here and complain if you don't have enough then. EZ right.

So 150 completions to make his measly tier 3 rad rapier? meh.

Trade scrolls?

Maybe he doesnt like playing arcane/divine spell casters, and doesnt like solo farming epics? So hes going to be forced to solo farm and not group with people to get what he wants? That kind of sucks. I think there should be some form of turn in, make it something like DT runes crunch 3 larges get 1 random large back, lol 9 times out of ten it will be another bone but........... should be grindy enough. Though with the people who have stacks of 100's 100's of stuff will be a big flood of the market.

[somenewnoob]

I definitely would like to see a 3:1 exchange for large ingreds.

Maybe even the same for small/med.....not that everybody doesn't have 5000 of each of these.....but for new people! :D

Less grind = win!

[Uska]

maybe for a 5 or 10 to 1 ratio

[brian14]

/notsigned

What I would prefer is the ability to trade smalls for mediums, and mediums for larges of the same kind. 5 or 10 medium scales for 1 large scale, same for bones. And, as I wrote before, some OTHER use for bones which accumulate in everyone's inventory and can be hardly given away[1]. Like a gem/amulet which summons Giant Skeleton.

[1] A week ago I traded a Large Bone for 200 Motes of Night. Yes, it is 10 months until Halloween :)

[Forgeborn]

I definitely would like to see a 3:1 exchange for large ingreds.

If any, I would like to see either, or both:
3 of any large to 1 random large (a la reavers refuge rune style, mixes in the first thus possible, like 2 bones + 1 shrap = 1 random large)
5 of the same large to 1 large of choice (a la GH relic style, meaning, for example, 5 bones to 1 scale)



What I would prefer is the ability to trade smalls for mediums, and mediums for larges of the same kind. 5 or 10 medium scales for 1 large scale, same for bones.

And promote the 'I'm gonna farm part 1 through 4 until ransack!!!!' mentality... just no. unless they remove all chests from all parts, and spawn all of them after completion in the part that's now part 5. (yes, that would mean 12+ chests in a single room... kinda makes me drool, lol)


some OTHER use for bones which accumulate in everyone's inventory and can be hardly given away[1]. Like a gem/amulet which summons Giant Skeleton.
That's one idea I do love.... those stupid scales could summon a horned devil then? please? o.o

[Ausdoerrt]

it is not the droprate the issue here... it's the fact that dual shard gs items often require 5-6 lds while they only need 2 bones. This is why bones are stacking up in our bags. I agree with you though ... they need to fix this somewhat.

That makes sense, but it's hard to claim that in the OP's (or any new player's) case, since he hasn't had a chance to make a GS item in the first place. LDS is almost always the bottleneck - they just drop less for most people I've met, in addition to being in high demand for all recipes.


When you you have run 150 shrouds, come back here and complain if you don't have enough then. EZ right.

Some grind is fine, but some stuff's silly. It seems counter-intuitive that you can get several cleansing essenses before you can even make a T3 GSitem. And it's not like, in most cases, the reward is really worth the grind. A T2 Alchemical weapon is much easier to get (5MAs+20LoBs should be just about enough), and is at least as good as a T3 GS. Heck, some epics are easier to get than T3GS. So why would anyone run 150 shrouds for a piece of twink gear? Mind you, that's a year and a quarter on a single toon.

There's the necessary, reasonable grind, and there's this.


If any, I would like to see either:
3 of any large to 1 random large (a la reavers refuge rune style)
5 of the same large to 1 large of choice (a la GH relic style)

Sounds reasonable. If anything, why not have both?

[somenewnoob]

If any, I would like to see either, or both:
3 of any large to 1 random large (a la reavers refuge rune style, mixes in the first thus possible, like 2 bones + 1 shrap = 1 scale)
5 of the same large to 1 large of choice (a la GH relic style, meaning, for example, 5 bones to 1 scale)


Yep, I'd be on board with that too!

[Forgeborn]

Yep, I'd be on board with that too!

Part you quoted had a small error in it, meant to say:

3 of any large to 1 random large (a la reavers refuge rune style, mixes in the first thus possible, like 2 bones + 1 shrap = 1 random large)

[somenewnoob]

Part you quoted had a small error in it, meant to say:

Still on board, I figured that's what you were saying! :D

[HernandoCortez]

As long as its not bones for scales, I wouldn't mind. I know scales are not rarer than other stuff - or so Wiki says - its just that you need more scales than everything else.

But trading for scales, well... you know its the currency in the game along with reds. We can't afford to lose that.

[Ausdoerrt]

I find it rather funny that most MMOs strive to provide a functional monetary economy only to have the players ignore that and resort to barter instead.

[Forgeborn]

As long as its not bones for scales, I wouldn't mind. I know scales are not rarer than other stuff - or so Wiki says - its just that you need more scales than everything else.

But trading for scales, well... you know its the currency in the game along with reds. We can't afford to lose that.

it still wouldn't be extremely easy to get scales, people would still trade in them, they just wouldn't get shafted in shroud by getting their umpteenth arrow, bone, or whatever, a 5 straight up trade would be extremely costly to repeatedly do. let's say you have 50 bones now, that's 10 scales under a 5-to-1 exchange rate, enough to make 2 pieces of greensteel, and then you're out of bones until you farm em for a few months again.

People aren't asking for being able to exchange large mats 1 on 1 basis, but instead asking for a way of exchanging an excess of a single material they have, and recieving a small amount of other materials in return. The question is just "how much is just right", I personally would say 5 of one kind for 1 of your choice, or 3 random ones, for 1 random. Just see how long it takes you to get 5 of the same large mat.


I find it rather funny that most MMOs strive to provide a functional monetary economy only to have the players ignore that and resort to barter instead.
In almost all MMO's, or at least most, the income of player characters at a certain point becomes high enough to be able to fund an entire army of minions, instead of dealing with humongeous numbers of currency, they will go to things that are simple, and easy to trade, preferable with as little error in the amount as possible. (it's incredibly easy to miss one or two zeroes if you're dealing with 10+ of them, either by your keyboard just not responding, or just miscounting), so they turn to items that aren't extremely rare, but often desired for whatever reason. In DDO, that just happens to be greensteel materials, scales in specific.

Also, since most games have a hard cap on the amount of currency you can hold (in DDO: 4,294,967pp 2gp 9sp 5cp), it's easier to deal with goods, since it's much easier to stack 30 scales worth 300k each (~9mil) then it is to have 9 mil platinum spread around multiple characters, it also allows people to buy extremely rare goods using those goods, like the marillith chain scroll used to be, before they messed with the sands scrolls

[somenewnoob]

it still wouldn't be extremely easy to get scales, people would still trade in them, they just wouldn't get shafted in shroud by getting their umpteenth arrow, bone, or whatever, a 5 straight up trade would be extremely costly to repeatedly do. let's say you have 50 bones now, that's 10 scales under a 5-to-1 exchange rate, enough to make 2 pieces of greensteel, and then you're out of bones until you farm em for a few months again.

People aren't asking for being able to exchange large mats 1 on 1 basis, but instead asking for a way of exchanging an excess of a single material they have, and recieving a small amount of other materials in return. The question is just "how much is just right", I personally would say 5 of one kind for 1 of your choice, or 3 random ones, for 1 random. Just see how long it takes you to get 5 of the same large mat.

Well, as it is now though scales cost well more than 5 times what a bone costs on the AH at least. So I don't think 5 is too unreasonable. My original suggestion was 3:1, I could live with 5:1 though.

[HernandoCortez]

it still wouldn't be extremely easy to get scales, people would still trade in them, they just wouldn't get shafted in shroud by getting their umpteenth arrow, bone, or whatever, a 5 straight up trade would be extremely costly to repeatedly do. let's say you have 50 bones now, that's 10 scales under a 5-to-1 exchange rate, enough to make 2 pieces of greensteel, and then you're out of bones until you farm em for a few months again.

People aren't asking for being able to exchange large mats 1 on 1 basis, but instead asking for a way of exchanging an excess of a single material they have, and recieving a small amount of other materials in return. The question is just "how much is just right", I personally would say 5 of one kind for 1 of your choice, or 3 random ones, for 1 random. Just see how long it takes you to get 5 of the same large mat.

Depending on the number of characters you have, bones and such would always be worth something and probably thats how it is now. Turbine would like to have you buying as many charater slots as you can.

Still I understand what you're saying, I just don't like the idea of trading for scales because of the economy.

[Forgeborn]

Well, as it is now though scales cost well more than 5 times what a bone costs on the AH at least. So I don't think 5 is too unreasonable. My original suggestion was 3:1, I could live with 5:1 though.

Which brings us to supply and demand, the supply of bones is massive compared to the demand, pretty sure that if I use the trade in the marketplace at almost any time of the day, I can find someone that would be willing to toss me 5 bones if I hand him a single scale. While I know there need to be differences in value, a to large difference leaves a bitter taste if you happen to pulls your umpteenth whatever and just can't use it, and nobody wants it.


Depending on the number of characters you have, bones and such would always be worth something and probably thats how it is now. Turbine would like to have you buying as many character slots as you can.

Still I understand what you're saying, I just don't like the idea of trading for scales because of the economy.

30 bought character slots + 2 for f2p, 4 for premium, 10 for VIP, should be the cap if I remember.

That's the point, as it stand, bones might as well be left out of the chests for the next 3 months, most players wouldn't care to much since they still have a ton, and if not, they'll be able to buy em for a pittance, where if you remove scales from the droplist for that same amount of time, people would be moaning and groaning. It's supply and demand, rather simple. The current demand for scales far exceeds the demand for bones, while both take the same effort to obtain, and are used in the same manner, they -should- be relatively equal in my opinion.

Further I doubt the economy would suffer much. Sure, people would crush tons of bones into scales overnight and upset it for a little while, but it would even out in the end. Bones would go up a little, scales would go down a little. Redoing the [desired] greensteel recipes to consume more bones would do the same, just in a different way.

[somenewnoob]

When I finished my 2nd lit 2 recently......the last thing I needed.....BONES! :p

Was a good problem to have! Don't know HOW it happened.......

[danotmano1998]

When I finished my 2nd lit 2 recently......the last thing I needed.....BONES! :p

Was a good problem to have! Don't know HOW it happened.......

An extremely wise man asked me once:

"Why gnawed bones?" Does the power come from the bone, or the gnawing of said bone?
And who's job is it anyways to do all that gnawing?

Harry: "Hey, you! Get to work! There's another crop of adventurers coming along any minute, have you got those bones good and gnawed? Better get on it, or I'll have to give them a few of your scales, you worthless devil!"

[Ausdoerrt]

In almost all MMO's, or at least most, the income of player characters at a certain point becomes high enough to be able to fund an entire army of minions, instead of dealing with humongeous numbers of currency, they will go to things that are simple, and easy to trade, preferable with as little error in the amount as possible. (it's incredibly easy to miss one or two zeroes if you're dealing with 10+ of them, either by your keyboard just not responding, or just miscounting), so they turn to items that aren't extremely rare, but often desired for whatever reason. In DDO, that just happens to be greensteel materials, scales in specific.

Also, since most games have a hard cap on the amount of currency you can hold (in DDO: 4,294,967pp 2gp 9sp 5cp), it's easier to deal with goods, since it's much easier to stack 30 scales worth 300k each (~9mil) then it is to have 9 mil platinum spread around multiple characters, it also allows people to buy extremely rare goods using those goods, like the marillith chain scroll used to be, before they messed with the sands scrolls

Oh, I totally understand the why of it. I just find it rather ironic.

Although, to be honest, it's not like it would be too difficult to either limit the supply of currency (which would bring prices down to resonable numbers), or introduce some sort of in-game fiat (either tokens or another type of currency) at an exchange rate of, say, 100kpp to 1. That'd eliminate the need for barter and make in-game wealth more commesurate with the effort put in and less with the luck of pull. But I digress.



Further I doubt the economy would suffer much. Sure, people would crush tons of bones into scales overnight and upset it for a little while, but it would even out in the end. Bones would go up a little, scales would go down a little. Redoing the [desired] greensteel recipes to consume more bones would do the same, just in a different way.

Considering what's been happening to what's left of the game economy lately, I wouldn't worry too much about upsetting it a bit through something that's actually making the game better. Besides, it'd normalize pretty quickly anyway.

[CheeseMilk]

I find it rather funny that most MMOs strive to provide a functional monetary economy only to have the players ignore that and resort to barter instead.

Just like real life!

Now, if we could fold the Xen'drik Federal Reserve, and move to a LDS standard, we'd have less inflation and far less debt.

[KillEveryone]

Since they are looking at changing the Shroud alter interface to a barter type, I'd like them to also adjust the recipies so that they don't use such a large number of scales.

If they don't adjust that, then yes I'd like some kind of exchanger to put a lot of the ingredients that I don't use to some kind of use.

[brian14]

Just like real life!

Now, if we could fold the Xen'drik Federal Reserve, and move to a LDS standard, we'd have less inflation and far less debt.
Or at least have an Occupy Kundarak! movement

[Candela90]

I agree. It should be sth like 5 Large Bones - LStone and others. 9LBones - LDS.
Always something. Cause getting XXX large bone when i have 5 LDSes is not fun. Especially that no one will buy it even for these 10-20k. Cause no one need it.

[CheeseMilk]

Or at least have an Occupy Kundarak! movement

Vote For EberRon Paul!

[somenewnoob]

Vote For EberRon Paul!

lol +1 when I can again. I was trying to think of some way of getting Ron Paul in there!
Good work!

[Vengeance777]

/signed Would love to see a 3:1 exchange npc. Pretty much every collectible system in the game has an exchange system. Dreaming Dark, Gianthold Relics, Challenge mats, crafting mats, etc... Shroud mat exchanges are long overdue.

[Such755]

I know this has been raised before. And the new reward system has helped, somewhat. You can do it in GH, and Reavers, so why not for GS?
.

I can think of one reson: Green steel is way more powerful than the stuff you can craft in reavers and GH.
The extra chest from hard\elite and the chance of LDS from the end reward is more than enough if you ask me.

I do agree that all those common large materials should have their use, because they pile up for nothing. But not for extrange for other GS materials.

[Sandpredator]

Time to do what most people do. Create more characters and run more shrouds. Everyone wants to just hit the "EASY" button and get their stuff now. It is called a grind for reason. Yes it sucks, I totally agree with you but that is what makes this game fun and interesting. Don't get discouraged because you are not uber like some of these players but you will get there eventually.

[somenewnoob]

Time to do what most people do. Create more characters and run more shrouds. Everyone wants to just hit the "EASY" button and get their stuff now. It is called a grind for reason. Yes it sucks, I totally agree with you but that is what makes this game fun and interesting. Don't get discouraged because you are not uber like some of these players but you will get there eventually.

I dunno, to me when something "sucks" it is by definition, NOT "fun and interesting"!

That's just me though!
;)

I prefer my games to NOT suck!

(And for the record this game does NOT suck.......but I still support a trade in! :D)

[danotmano1998]

Yes it sucks, I totally agree with you but that is what makes this game fun and interesting.


I dunno, to me when something "sucks" it is by definition, NOT "fun and interesting"!

That's just me though!
;)


And to you, good sir, I award the winner of this thread award. :)

[Ungood]

While I am not too invested into this one way or the other, a barter trade in, say 3 for 1 in any direction would be a step in the right direction I think with this. If they are going to change it anyway, they may as well change it in a manner that helps reduce the grind a little bit.

[brian14]

And to you, good sir, I award the winner of this thread award. :)

Seconded!

[NytCrawlr]

Vote For EberRon Paul!

Bah! Beat me to the Ron Paul joke.

[JollySwagMan]

I'm all for a trade in option. The DDO economy gets borked often enough by game changes and exploits, and this would help provide some small guard against that. One might also have different rates of exchange, such as 10 for 1 scale, 5 for a chain or stone etc.

[KillEveryone]

Time to do what most people do. Create more characters and run more shrouds. Everyone wants to just hit the "EASY" button and get their stuff now. It is called a grind for reason. Yes it sucks, I totally agree with you but that is what makes this game fun and interesting. Don't get discouraged because you are not uber like some of these players but you will get there eventually.

The grind does not make this game fun and interesting.

The quests make this game fun and interesting. The grind happens when the game doesn't give what the player is wanting.

It isn't about easy button.

It is about all these extra large ingredients that don't get used much. Only thing holding up one of my aults is the need for scales. I could then TR once I get a few toys to play with. Since there are many TR's involved, I would actually be spending TP on hearts since I don't have a whole lot of epic tokens to trade. Turbine could be getting me to spend TP on those hearts but instead I'm running something that I've done many times before in a pack that I've already spent TP on so I have no reason to give any money to Turbine since I'm still working on toys to play with when I level.

There are those that like the grind. For whatever reason, they like to equate grind to challenge which grind does not equal challenge.

There are those like me that regardless of how quickly I get my loot for my characters to complete, I'll still roll up a different build to play just for something different. Types like me won't quit the game just because I have my loot.

[Dwarfo]

i pull way way to many arrowheads, i think i have around 32 or something. oh and ya,
/not signed.

trade with your fellow players somehow.

[CheeseMilk]

i pull way way to many arrowheads, i think i have around 32 or something. oh and ya,
/not signed.

trade with your fellow players somehow.

Okay, I'll give you one large bone for 3 large arrowheads.

[somenewnoob]

Okay, I'll give you one large bone for 3 large arrowheads.

lol .....You are on fire today! (clap clap) :D

[FrancisP.Fancypants]

I dunno, to me when something "sucks" it is by definition, NOT "fun and interesting"!

That's just me though!
;)

I prefer my games to NOT suck!

(And for the record this game does NOT suck.......but I still support a trade in! :D)

I gotta agree with this. Oddly enough, lately I've ground out enough LDS to make 4 items while trying to get a damned large chain.
I dunno, I'd guess there's a large percentage of players who accept the shroud grind. And I've run my share between toons, but I certainly wouldn't let that get in the way of making the grind a little more tolerable.

[Carpone]

Ingredient trading precedence has been set with the Cannith challenges and Sands of Menechtarun epic scrolls. It needs to apply globally to all crafting systems and all epic content.

[countfitz]

Please DON'T!

I have 7 large bones at the moment, and 21 Large stones, 18 arrowheads, and 55 CHAINS!!! (And 5 LDS)

So please make the turn in for Large Chains.

Pretty please?


Oh, BTW, the last time I posted on one of these threads we discussed the idea of instead of a turn in, having a way to create a Skeleton clicky by adding like 100 large bones to a shard of supreme power to make a 20 use trinket.

[Emili]

I know this has been raised before. And the new reward system has helped, somewhat. Thank you devs for that. But even that is borked and I only twice got options for larges, in 13 runes, of them 4 Hards.

After 21 shroud runs, I got over 19 large bones, exactly 3 lds, 2 stone, 2 chains and 3 shraps. So I still cannot finish my single rad weapon I am trying to make. To make my "single supreme" HP item I begged my guildies to help, and they did.

A short search of the forums reveals that the high bone drop issue is a long standing one.
True, many players end up with excess bones, because you need them less, but I hear from a lot of players, and my own experience has showed me, that bones drop a LOT. Far more than any other mat.

Best idea that came up from the posts was an exchange NPC. Whether a 3:1 or 5:1 ratio, an exchange NPC would be very very nice. You can do it in GH, and Reavers, so why not for GS?

So I raise the issue again.

Please give us an exchange NPC.

I would like to TR and I would like to do it with at least one GS weapon.

Be 'bout four months ago I stopped collecting bones and chains at 669. Seemed like an' ample number to stop at. Then come 'bout two months back I posted them in counts of 10 on the AH for 10k (1k ea) - held onto 109 pf each. First time in game I ever needed money... seems running the content I do recently taken it's toll.

[llevenbaxx]

No reason to have 30+ bones, 5-10 scales and 15-20 evertying else sitting in the bank.

Not sure what kind of short bus logic anyone could come up with to justify this as a good thing.

Give us an option to trade in useless/worthless "treasure"(?)

[brian14]

No reason to have 30+ bones, 5-10 scales and 15-20 evertying else sitting in the bank.

Not sure what kind of short bus logic anyone could come up with to justify this as a good thing.

Give us an option to trade in useless/worthless "treasure"(?)
And those impressively named Essences of the Dominator, while you are at it!

[Rydin_Dirtay]

I spent 70-80 days. enough.

80 days?? I spent over 1 year playing before I had my first tiered-out greensteel. I also walked the Low Road and Goodblades through 3 feet of snow.

You want a Gianthold-type exchanger and that may not be a bad idea. I've been there (20+ arrowheads and 2 Shrapnels). Some thread somewhere also mentioned a dev-mentioned greensteel deconner, where you'd get some ingreds back for "mistakes".

[NaturalHazard]

There are those that like the grind. For whatever reason, they like to equate grind to challenge which grind does not equal challenge.

.

Epeen?

I am lucky enough to have unlimmited time to play this game, look at my uberz lootzzz therefore im a much better player than yall and yall opinions don't count for squat vs mine when it comes to the game.

[Uma-Quixote]

I don't quite understand this....
There already IS an NPC trader....it is called the Auction House.
I have run about 100 completions on 3 different toons (1 over 2 lives, so sort of 4 toons really) In that time I have completed 3 double shard items, 2 single shard items, and 5 double shard weapons. In addition I have made 4 more weapons to tier II, but that is not strictly relevant. So all in all about 45 LDS have been used.
I doubt I got anywhere near half of these in shroud runs...the rest I bought or traded.
My AH policy is pile high, sell cheap... I rarely put up junk weapons for more than 5 or 6 k ...they normally sell pretty quickly.
A completed shroud run on normal (10 chests) normally nets about 40 to 50k per run in junk weapons and spare smalls/mediums, plus the occasional tome (I normally have a jewel running).
It doesn't take long to get enough plat to buy the LDS you need.
Prior to u12 you could buy the odd LDS on the AH for less than 250K - these days 400 is a more normal price. The cheapest I've ever found were 2 for 190..though they may be bought (on Sarlona, no idea about elsewhere) occasionally for less than 350...
plus folk in chat will often sell/trade for about 300....

If you have run 20 shrouds and still not finished your first GS item because you don't have enough LDS, my advice is as follows
...BUY SOME, YOU TIGHTWAD!!! and stop whining!

[nolaureltree000]

while i would certainly like it, i doubt the devs would ever implement it. there are lots of people around here that probably have 100s of large bones sitting in ingredient bags. the market would be flooded with so many LDS after implementing it, it would certainly have a large effect on the economy.

im sure the devs would also see it as cheapening GS and making it even easier to get. and seeing as how they keep making shroud harder, it seems they dont want people getting GS easier.

[Krell]

I definitely would like to see a 3:1 exchange for large ingreds.

Maybe even the same for small/med.....not that everybody doesn't have 5000 of each of these.....but for new people! :D

Less grind = win!

I agree. We have a few exchange options in the game now and I wouldn't mind seeing more.

[NaturalHazard]

I don't quite understand this....
There already IS an NPC trader....it is called the Auction House.
I have run about 100 completions on 3 different toons (1 over 2 lives, so sort of 4 toons really) In that time I have completed 3 double shard items, 2 single shard items, and 5 double shard weapons. In addition I have made 4 more weapons to tier II, but that is not strictly relevant. So all in all about 45 LDS have been used.
I doubt I got anywhere near half of these in shroud runs...the rest I bought or traded.
My AH policy is pile high, sell cheap... I rarely put up junk weapons for more than 5 or 6 k ...they normally sell pretty quickly.
A completed shroud run on normal (10 chests) normally nets about 40 to 50k per run in junk weapons and spare smalls/mediums, plus the occasional tome (I normally have a jewel running).
It doesn't take long to get enough plat to buy the LDS you need.
Prior to u12 you could buy the odd LDS on the AH for less than 250K - these days 400 is a more normal price. The cheapest I've ever found were 2 for 190..though they may be bought (on Sarlona, no idea about elsewhere) occasionally for less than 350...
plus folk in chat will often sell/trade for about 300....

If you have run 20 shrouds and still not finished your first GS item because you don't have enough LDS, my advice is as follows
...BUY SOME, YOU TIGHTWAD!!! and stop whining!

so hes run 20 shrouds and somehow he gets 40k-50k plat every shroud thats what? 800k to 1million plat? enough to buy 2 LDS? 3 if hes lucky. I hope hes only making a earthgrab or triple pos because hes going to be short a couple scales. Add in the fact that he might have to buy other stuff to keep him going, heal scrolls, other scrolls, major pots.

Yeah you ran 100 shrouds but I doubt all your LDS came from the LDS you pulled or brought with the loot you got from your 100 shrouds. Im sure in that time frame you farmed some epic scrolls and some red scales and got lucky, and thats where a lot of your LDS came from.

Wow people buy your trash loot of the ah even for that price? for what? deconstruction? Thats the only use I can see for a lot of the loot, and some of it isnt even worth it even buying for half base price, because the stuff its got on it doesnt deconstruct well relative to its ml. Your better off vendoring it with a high level haggle charactor than having it come back and swamp your inbox.

Hes not asking for a hand out, but a use for his 19 bones from 20 shroud runs.


Dont forget hes playing the game in a different market compared to when you ran your 10 shrouds, you stated 250k was standard but its better much doubled on my server. So its much tougher for people.


I got through my massive LDS drought from shroud via soloing elite sins for mats, soloing elite Devils assault for mats, grouping for Epic DA, i was actually getting 1 scale out of every other 6 larges in those quests. At the same time I was leveling 2 other charactors then ran them through shroud.


I suggest he level up a wizard or other caster then go farm some epic scrolls, even the prices of abishai scrolls havent gone down much.

[Ausdoerrt]

Prior to u12 you could buy the odd LDS on the AH for less than 250K - these days 400 is a more normal price. The cheapest I've ever found were 2 for 190..though they may be bought (on Sarlona, no idea about elsewhere) occasionally for less than 350...

Scales for 190k? You must be playing a different game. Or maybe some servers have it easy. On Khyber, you'd be lucky to find one for 400k, usually see them up for 600k on average. I'd probably have to trade 2-3 epic scrolls for a single scale (unless we're talking a handful of high-demand scrolls from Chrono). Keep in mind that as a melee, you'll have a hell of a time getting into those epic runs in the first place, if you don't already have 2-3 tiered out GS on you.

And 100 shrouds at 50k is 5mpp, or 10 scales. With one scale pulled on average every 10 runs (my experience so far), that's another 10 scales. 45 LDS in 100 runs? You're being awfully generous with your estimates.



I find it rather funny that most MMOs strive to provide a functional monetary economy only to have the players ignore that and resort to barter instead.

Just like real life!

If you live in a country facing hyper-inflation, maybe.

[lhidda]

I know this has been raised before. And the new reward system has helped, somewhat. Thank you devs for that. But even that is borked and I only twice got options for larges, in 13 runes, of them 4 Hards.

After 21 shroud runs, I got over 19 large bones, exactly 3 lds, 2 stone, 2 chains and 3 shraps. So I still cannot finish my single rad weapon I am trying to make. To make my "single supreme" HP item I begged my guildies to help, and they did.

A short search of the forums reveals that the high bone drop issue is a long standing one.
True, many players end up with excess bones, because you need them less, but I hear from a lot of players, and my own experience has showed me, that bones drop a LOT. Far more than any other mat.

Best idea that came up from the posts was an exchange NPC. Whether a 3:1 or 5:1 ratio, an exchange NPC would be very very nice. You can do it in GH, and Reavers, so why not for GS?

So I raise the issue again.

Please give us an exchange NPC.

I would like to TR and I would like to do it with at least one GS weapon.

Sure, I'd be happy to exchange large mats to fit my needs for gs crafting, whatever the ratio is. Saves time, compared to auction house and trade channel. +1

[Uma-Quixote]

so hes run 20 shrouds and somehow he gets 40k-50k plat every shroud thats what? 800k to 1million plat? enough to buy 2 LDS? 3 if hes lucky. I hope hes only making a earthgrab or triple pos because hes going to be short a couple scales. Add in the fact that he might have to buy other stuff to keep him going, heal scrolls, other scrolls, major pots.

Yeah you ran 100 shrouds but I doubt all your LDS came from the LDS you pulled or brought with the loot you got from your 100 shrouds. Im sure in that time frame you farmed some epic scrolls and some red scales and got lucky, and thats where a lot of your LDS came from.

Wow people buy your trash loot of the ah even for that price? for what? deconstruction? Thats the only use I can see for a lot of the loot, and some of it isnt even worth it even buying for half base price, because the stuff its got on it doesnt deconstruct well relative to its ml. Your better off vendoring it with a high level haggle charactor than having it come back and swamp your inbox.

Hes not asking for a hand out, but a use for his 19 bones from 20 shroud runs.


Yes, he will be short a couple of LDS....but he has just run 20 shrouds...so he should get 2 or 3 from that.. DOH!..
plus the quantity of plat rockets if he has a few spare larges like stones or shrap to sell/trade.
Oh, and btw, it doesn't take a genius to work out that if you have 20 bones and only need 3......SELL THE BONES!..don't flood the market with cheap ones, but just trickle them on. If on your server the going rate is say 50/60 (which it is currently on Sarlona) Put a couple on at 25/35. They will sell. As for the notion that you are giving something away cheap, you are not. Nothing on the AH is worth a penny until until it is sold. So you can have 10 bones in your backpack and pretend they are worth 500k, except no-one will pay that price..so just sell them for a couple of hundred thousand....which is 200k more than you had to begin with.
FYI: I have never sold an epic scroll, and I have no idea what a red scale looks like (I guess its...red?) I farm a bit of demon's blood sometimes in Wrath of the Flame but anyone (including our hypothetical scaleless person) can do that.

Yes, people still buy trash loot if you sell it cheap enough...I normally have about 70 to 80 auctions between 3 toons at any one moment...it probably nets me 20 to 30k a day...adds up pretty fast.
I never have any plat, because I spend it....(which is what it is for). In my DDO career (18 months playing) I think somewhere like 5 or 6 million has passed through my hands. I have never had more than 1.5 at any one time, and I should think that 80% of my money has been spent on Large Shroud ingredients.
I don't quite understand folk who have to have a plat reserve of 1 or 2 million...or even 100k...you have the plat, spend it..its not there to pay for your kid's schooling or your retirement or even to pay your rent...

[Uma-Quixote]

Scales for 190k? You must be playing a different game. Or maybe some servers have it easy. On Khyber, you'd be lucky to find one for 400k, usually see them up for 600k on average. I'd probably have to trade 2-3 epic scrolls for a single scale (unless we're talking a handful of high-demand scrolls from Chrono). Keep in mind that as a melee, you'll have a hell of a time getting into those epic runs in the first place, if you don't already have 2-3 tiered out GS on you.

And 100 shrouds at 50k is 5mpp, or 10 scales. With one scale pulled on average every 10 runs (my experience so far), that's another 10 scales. 45 LDS in 100 runs? You're being awfully generous with your estimates.



If you live in a country facing hyper-inflation, maybe.

Sigh.... I said 2 for for 190 was the cheapest I'd ever found - yes, that was exceptional, which is why I mentioned it...400k is a pretty normal price right now on Sarlona - As I said in my post..as I write this there are 3 at a bid of 294 with a buyout of 380, which is pretty cheap.
I'm not being "awfully generous with my estimates" (or are you implying I'm making this up?) I'm relating my experience.
I HAVE the GS items I listed..(I think they actually required 46 LDS not 45), and I have another 2 LDS in the bank right now...As for 100 runs, it might be slightly higher, I can't remember the exact figure but no more than 105 completions all told. Maybe I'm lucky, but I think over that many runs it should average out..I don't farm scrolls or whatever, I do make money from trash loot...its do-able, is my point. Its not do-able if you don't sell stuff, or if you hang on to a lot of plat "for a rainy day" (why???) You have to check the AH for LDS pretty much every day, and when you see one there cheap (and it happens, more than you might think) You must snap it up. You have to sell your surplus larges as well as any extra meds and small ingredients....Do that, and it's easy.
What is very hard, is when you only have a single toon running shrouds.
It takes ages to get what you need.
Have 3 + running them and run it just about every day and the larges pour in.

[Uma-Quixote]

wow we agree on something. :p.

I would laugh if he gets a turn of bad luck and runs 30+ odd shrouds without a single lds then he will be on here screaming for a trade in.

You are generous-souled individual, aren't you? Do you laugh at anyone less fortunate than yourself as well?
I have had my dry periods on Shroud runs...got no scales for a good 20 runs...but the point is you ALWAYS get AT LEAST 1 ingredient and it ISN'T always a bone or a chain (granted, it feels that way sometimes)...so you sell the surplus stones and shrapnels, for plenty plat, and still get decent money for Large bones and chains (20k apiece easy).
Since U12 I reckon the drop rate of larges on normal (including the end reward) is at least 7 larges for every 5 runs..
Thats a lot of larges. Just sell them.
I couldn't give a tinker's cuss if there is a trade-in or not..if folk want it, fine, let them have it.
What I don't understand is why people moan that they have 50 bones in the bank and no scales...Just sell the damm bones! I suspect the reason is, is that they won't sell them for 20k "because they are worth 50k really" Or that they won't put them on the AH because they resent giving the AH 30%....WHY??? IT'S NOT REAL MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!....If you sell a bone for 5k then it is 5k you never had before. Whether the AH takes 1% or 50% is irrelevant.
Pile it high, sell it cheap..it works. Ask Tesco or Wal-Mart.

[FrancisP.Fancypants]

What I don't understand is why people moan that they have 50 bones in the bank and no scales...Just sell the damm bones! I suspect the reason is, is that they won't sell them for 20k "because they are worth 50k really"

Probably the same reasons I wouldn't just sell a scale to get a chain- soon as you sell the mat you've got a bunch of, you'll pick up what you needed on the next run anyway, and then you'll see a huge dry spell on whatever you got rid of. Yeah, it's gambler's logic, but it's still got a big pull on the psyche.

And also... getting 20k for a pile of bones won't get you any closer to an LDS than a couple more shroud runs. So there's that. I'm not saying money can't be made, or made well by selling cheap bulk; that's how I make mine. But the AH economy still isn't quite back to pre-exploit levels on the rare stuff, and that money spends a lot faster than you can make it.

[Miow]

Sure I'm a jerk with no life....<----I'm happily married, own a house, play hockey, hunt, fish, cook, go camping, play ddo, go out for dinners with friends have a great 2/half year old son, good job and make ample money to live comfortably.

I came here, i saw a thread asking for a trade in on shroud ingredients....

I disagreed with his request, i gave him ideas on how to get more of whatever he needs.

"/not signed

The system is random find other ways to acquire lds.

Trade rare items
Trade scrolls
Trade frds
Run multiple toons in the shroud you will get some eventually."


"why?

I put in the time
I put in the effort
I run eDA
I run Amarath
I spent 70-80 days. enough."<-----He says he put in the effort yet obviously he did not with only 21 completions


"Oh, and I bet you have at LEAST 2 double shard items and 2 II weapons. Easy for you to say...<-----yes i have them because I've run more shrouds, traded for and bought what i need nothing should come too easily.

"All I want is the opportunity to get the same as other people for the same effort. For normal stuff. Again, I am not talkign about "rare" stuff. I don't begrudge the guy who pulls a +4 tome. I don't mind if I never loot one. But GS?"<-----I played the game to eventually get my opportunity you can do the same and you will be happy when you complete something.

"Okay why don't we just make trade ins for everything item in the game? Just so people like you can make their items easily. I hate to break it to you twenty one shrouds is nothing, you need to put in more work and the stuff will come." <----I'm trying to demonstrate that if everything had an easy button in the game the game would lose some of it's flare and it would accelerate it's decline.

"When you you have run 150 shrouds, come back here and complain if you don't have enough then. EZ right." <----This is in reference to how "Easy for you to say...." As for the 150 runs I'm quite serious if you ever run that many and still don't have what you need(perhaps you will be trading other items by then too!) please come back and re-post this thread.

You try to be helpful to people but they just shoot down your ideas because all they want in the end is an easy button.




This is an interesting book...
http://www.amazon.com/Shut-Stop-Whining-Get-Life/dp/0471654655/ref=pd_sim_b_1