LET'S TALK: Challenges

[ThePrincipal]

For the longest time, I ran lvl 18 challenges with a lvl 20 character solo (i will fail somtimes at lvl 20 so 18 is the guarenteed ingreds run).

I've been lvl'ing up a new alt, and been running lvl 10 -12 challenges at lvl solo. Whoa, 1) they are much easier 2) they give much more ingrediants, more than double.

It's faster to farm ingreds at lvl 12, bank them, pass them to my lvl 20 to craft epic gear. Plus, all the while the lowbie is getting xp. Very tempting to keep the alt as a farming toon for a long while.

[Saspen71]

So I'm trying to grind out a handful of Jade Scorpions so I can get my bracers...

Ok...got a teleporter, got a few torches to lead the stupid kobs to the progenitor crystal, off to go get the crests...

Get a minute away from the foreman area... INCOMING!

Onos! *quick! find a circle of power, drop the teleporter, go kill what's killing the foreman, and hop back through to keep finding the crests*

Get back through, pick up teleporter, look for more crests (always placed in ridiculous places FAR from circles of course...)... INCOMING!

*rinse and repeat the circle and teleporter trick*

Back at it again, find them crests! Clock is ticking!

3 minutes left! Still not enough crests! Still haven't gotten to the progenitor crystal! and...just to screw you over more... INCOMING!



Now...this challenge IS soloable...just need to get familiar with the map a bit so that you have an idea where to go, what to do, and what to expect, BUT...

You MAY have to try this challenge several times before you finally get it right and succeed once.


I don't mind repeating something if it wasn't a complete and utter waste of my time. That's almost 20 minutes that I ain't getting back, and at the end of a failure, I have NOTHING to show for it. ZERO exp, ZERO tokens, 100% Irritation.




Some consolation tokens and exp would be nice. A reward for at least TRYING. It's not my fault if I want to run something that nobody else can or will run.

In case there are some people who WILL run this stuff with me, I play Tinkerelle on Sarlonis. Level 9 Arti at the time of this writing.

[Jacoby]

This topic should prove interesting. :)

As you all know, U12 saw the release of a new type of content - Challenges.

I would like to get your thoughts on these - preferably in a constructive manner. I’m specifically interested in gameplay feedback.

For those who do not enjoy this type of gameplay, can you elaborate on why?

For those of you who do enjoy playing them, what aspects do you enjoy?

General feedback is encouraged, but again, please limit feedback to gameplay and respect other’s opinions. I expect this to be a very polarizing subject.

Thanks in advance.

Time is money I was able to solo to the first tier and gain some ingredients. The others I've tried on a very limited basis because no one cares to do them and they require a group.

Overall I beleive the concept is good but the difficulty in getting a full group to do them is not likely to happen. If they could be made to accomodate a smaller group or perhaps solo play I would be more inclined to do them.

[ferrite]

Well, let's see, currently.. (and I mean 'currently' in that after a few dozen changes to Challenges, THIS is what is currently in effect atm)

The whole '1 challenge token per toon, per day, Bound to Character' is a real drag. Really. I mean who wants to switch to every single toon, every day, just to get 1 token? Power gamers, maybe, but certainly not the casual player.

I know everyone has their own idea on this, and here's mine. I'd say scrap the BTC on the token, and change it to this method:

-----

TOKENS ARE NOW BOUND TO ACCOUNT

F2P - 1 token per day, per account.
P2P - 2 tokens per day, per account.
VIP - 3 tokens per day, per account.

House Cannith Noted Rank - +1 token per day, per account.
House Cannith Respected Rank - +1 token per day, per account.


This solution keeps tokens bound and no auction, while giving a bit more flexibility here.

[Daemoneyes]

This topic should prove interesting. :)

As you all know, U12 saw the release of a new type of content - Challenges.

I would like to get your thoughts on these - preferably in a constructive manner. I’m specifically interested in gameplay feedback.

For those who do not enjoy this type of gameplay, can you elaborate on why?

For those of you who do enjoy playing them, what aspects do you enjoy?

General feedback is encouraged, but again, please limit feedback to gameplay and respect other’s opinions. I expect this to be a very polarizing subject.

Thanks in advance.

I do not enjoy the xp Nerf and the ridicules scaling that makes puging challenges not worth, hell even grouping with good players is not worth.
Solo is the only way to go and this makes them meh

Also the Mechanics are sub optimal
Disruptor - there needs to be info on the Map where the Giant Skelett is
Mansion - sigils should be quest global, meaning they get counted for all player and all can use them from everywhere on the map, only universal sigil should clatter inventar.
Caves - Kobolds start running of even when a teleporter is near, this makes optionals a babysitting mission...
Disruptor and co - make the enemys attack players first and then cannons and only after the first two options are not aviable attacking the towers.

#Make challenge power ups / requisitions / kobold buffs etc BTA

#Make a bag for them, they clutter up. you really want us to buy them and have clutter everything?

# Buff the Buffs, 20sec duration and only 10resist? was the designer drunk? get him to the AA :P

#Shorten the duration of the lowlevel challenges, to wait 15min after fininshing the goal in 2min is not FUN.


I ENJOY
Lava Caves TIM and the Mansion Challenges
Because they go smooth and can be played without guarding or protecting something stupid.

I HATE
Disruptor, the skellet sucks and the mat output is ridicules low and zero xp
Lava Caves Colossal Crystals, without CC its impossible for lots of chars also way to hard without great dps

CONCLUSION
i play TIM and Mansions to get mats even if i have to trade 4-1 because the other suck so much and i am not the only one as you should know with your statistics

[Inouk]

I do not enjoy the xp Nerf and the ridicules scaling that makes puging challenges not worth, hell even grouping with good players is not worth.
Solo is the only way to go and this makes them meh

Also the Mechanics are sub optimal
Disruptor - there needs to be info on the Map where the Giant Skelett is
Mansion - sigils should be quest global, meaning they get counted for all player and all can use them from everywhere on the map, only universal sigil should clatter inventar.
Caves - Kobolds start running of even when a teleporter is near, this makes optionals a babysitting mission...
Disruptor and co - make the enemys attack players first and then cannons and only after the first two options are not aviable attacking the towers.

#Make challenge power ups / requisitions / kobold buffs etc BTA

#Make a bag for them, they clutter up. you really want us to buy them and have clutter everything?

# Buff the Buffs, 20sec duration and only 10resist? was the designer drunk? get him to the AA :P

#Shorten the duration of the lowlevel challenges, to wait 15min after fininshing the goal in 2min is not FUN.


I ENJOY
Lava Caves TIM and the Mansion Challenges
Because they go smooth and can be played without guarding or protecting something stupid.

I HATE
Disruptor, the skellet sucks and the mat output is ridicules low and zero xp
Lava Caves Colossal Crystals, without CC its impossible for lots of chars also way to hard without great dps

CONCLUSION
i play TIM and Mansions to get mats even if i have to trade 4-1 because the other suck so much and i am not the only one as you should know with your statistics

All of the challenges are very manageable solo or in group with the right build. Unfortunately it does require the right build, which is to say someone that can haste and d-door, and kill with reasonable speed. That said I solo every challenge in my level range on a 12 bard/2 rogue with very few fails. Most of my fails occur on colossal crystals, but my successes there yield such good results that it makes up for it.

The one area in major need of improvement IMO is the kobold island quests in general and disruptor in specific. Even if you rock what seems like a perfect run on that mission it seems like you get half the mats you should expect. The rewards there are painfully slow, and if you get unlucky the stupid skelly can spawn 3 times and each time pop up in a part of the map that takes awhile to find.

Here's my assessment of the quests:
Lava caves:
Time is money is great. It's fast, rewards are good, due to the luck of the map it's challenging but if you are good at it and have someone that can d-door and haste you should rarely fail.
Colossal Crystals is a PITA, but fun and great rewards. I can solo this on a good map for 450+ mats in 15 minutes using a hireling to hold the intersection where the teleporter comes out (get a hireling than can self heal and dish decent damage, should be plenty as the real fighting is clearing the caves and the ambush). Mostly things go wrong with a crappy map or when the ambush goes badly and base camp is under attack at same time and you just fail to protect the crystal en route. Overall these missions are fun, diverse, and rewarding.
Mansion:
These missions don't have a great time/reward ratio, but that said they are fast paced (despite being long), are tough to fail completely, and give sizable reward/run if you know how to do them, and are so different from the others that they are a nice break sometimes. It's nice to have a quest with no kobolds, and these are fun IMO.
Palace:
Labor Shortage in my experience has the best reward/min ratio of them all (though buying time and time is money are close). Hoard is tough because 20 minutes of fast paced combat and no shrine. These quests are fun and rewarding, but get a bit monotonous.
Kobold Island:
Overall these quests have an awful reward/time ratio, and disruptor in particular. These quests are challenging, more so solo, but even with a group you need everyone to be fairly self sufficient. These quests could benefit from 2 things greatly: better rewards, and more payoff for taking the large generators, which generally aren't worth it even if you can take and hold them in my experience.

[MartinusWyllt]

CONCLUSION
i play TIM and Mansions to get mats even if i have to trade 4-1 because the other suck so much and i am not the only one as you should know with your statistics

No, you're not the only one. After a few frustrated runs at colossal crystal I don't run it. Maybe I should retry with my AM...but, bleh.

[Chaos000]

I know this is an old thread but this has to be mentioned.

Can we not have dungeon scaling in the challenges? It should be easier not harder to do these challenges with more people.

[Daemoneyes]

No, you're not the only one. After a few frustrated runs at colossal crystal I don't run it. Maybe I should retry with my AM...but, bleh.

Its doable even with my gimped rogue/fighter but you need a hire and better do it 2lvl under you. Invisible kobold and try to cc everything with paralyzing or just outright kill it but dont daddle around.

But to be true its not worth, for every successful run you have to scout ~8 maps.
Sometimes way more as those circles just dont spawn..
Also the fact that the success of the map is completely based on npc (hire and kobold) makes it frustrating

[Daemoneyes]

All of the challenges are very manageable solo or in group with the right build. Unfortunately it does require the right build, which is to say someone that can haste and d-door, and kill with reasonable speed. That said I solo every challenge in my level range on a 12 bard/2 rogue with very few fails. Most of my fails occur on colossal crystals, but my successes there yield such good results that it makes up for it.

The one area in major need of improvement IMO is the kobold island quests in general and disruptor in specific. Even if you rock what seems like a perfect run on that mission it seems like you get half the mats you should expect. The rewards there are painfully slow, and if you get unlucky the stupid skelly can spawn 3 times and each time pop up in a part of the map that takes awhile to find.

Here's my assessment of the quests:
Lava caves:
Time is money is great. It's fast, rewards are good, due to the luck of the map it's challenging but if you are good at it and have someone that can d-door and haste you should rarely fail.
Colossal Crystals is a PITA, but fun and great rewards. I can solo this on a good map for 450+ mats in 15 minutes using a hireling to hold the intersection where the teleporter comes out (get a hireling than can self heal and dish decent damage, should be plenty as the real fighting is clearing the caves and the ambush). Mostly things go wrong with a crappy map or when the ambush goes badly and base camp is under attack at same time and you just fail to protect the crystal en route. Overall these missions are fun, diverse, and rewarding.
Mansion:
These missions don't have a great time/reward ratio, but that said they are fast paced (despite being long), are tough to fail completely, and give sizable reward/run if you know how to do them, and are so different from the others that they are a nice break sometimes. It's nice to have a quest with no kobolds, and these are fun IMO.
Palace:
Labor Shortage in my experience has the best reward/min ratio of them all (though buying time and time is money are close). Hoard is tough because 20 minutes of fast paced combat and no shrine. These quests are fun and rewarding, but get a bit monotonous.
Kobold Island:
Overall these quests have an awful reward/time ratio, and disruptor in particular. These quests are challenging, more so solo, but even with a group you need everyone to be fairly self sufficient. These quests could benefit from 2 things greatly: better rewards, and more payoff for taking the large generators, which generally aren't worth it even if you can take and hold them in my experience.

I did them now a few times in the lower levels and must say Disruptor is easy in lowlevel but rewards still suck and there is no way i will ever get more then 1 large lvl3 tower.

Scaling is such a ***** there its not worth running this challenge with anything above lvl10, i prefer lvl7 this way you can run lvl9 and still instakill everything there and the cannons do some damage to the mobs.
On higher lvl the cannons do almost nothing to the mobs.

Also i find that my drunk has almost no chance to kill the bosses (kobold/master) in higher levels, just to much water elemental and they re-spawn to fast.
Tried one time with a Fighter without evasion, he was dead before he found the boss in the bunch of elementals <<
No AE and Dotting the boss dead seems the only way

[MiKe_de]

The only challenge I like is the arena.

The other challanges are pure horror in my eyes. I would not spent one cent to torture myself with them.

Basicly you have only a few times of the same challanges cloned over and over again. If you do not like one, it's highly possible you do not like them at all.

I hate them because of the time limit. But that is my personal problem.

In challenges I want to fight. I play this game because of the fighting system. I don't want rush senseless through a mansion, with no clue where to go and random! drops of door-openers. I really HATE guarding missions. In every game I know, they are ****. In space, on earth, in armies. ****. And I am no miner either. I do not stick torches in the ground. I would rather transport the crystals MYSELF, than stick torches in the ground.

Most of the other players hate disruptor. I heard.

But I try not be so negative, I have to do it better, so that I would like challenges. too:

You have to think about fun for players first, not "pain-in-the-ass" challenges.

New idea

What do you think about a challenge called "party - race"

Two (at least 2 persons) groups have to rush through an dungeon (Level config param) apart from each other, parallel, so to say, and defeat monsters. If the Mid-Boss in the monster group falls, the next door opens, and the party can go on. after a couple of doors (config param - You get n tokens per door.), the finish line is reached. The first group that gets there, takes 2/3 of the prize, the second 1/3. If all group members die, they get nothing. The important thing is: All player get something at least. And it's competive. A real challenge, playing against other player groups. You can give time boni for reaching the goal under a besttime. You can do this with different types of (random) monsters. As optional superbonus you can try to kill the big nasty (random :D - Level depending on base level and number of doors ) Endbossmonster -> with both united groups, BUT players who stay in the dungeon at this point will risk all their points -> Faktor: Double or nothing! Last thing is for real gamers, who bet all on one last card. :D The players, who left the dungeon, before the nasty Endbossmonster shows up will get their normal points.

The same scenario as above, but on skaters and ice. Let's see how good the paladins and fighters can skate. A little speed racing included.:D

And please, let the player excange their tokens in the tokens they want. Not all players like all challenges. And they don't like them even less, if they are forced to run them.

A challenge called "Waves".
You've done this in devil assault. Do it in ever increasing odds, until the last player dies. Points awarded are the number of monsters slain. (Monster only count, if they have the same level as the strongest player) In this case you can get at least a minimum an points. Double the point gain all 4 levels over the max player level. This challenge favors full parties, because they can dish out more damage, but you are able to play it alone, too. Do it on a map, that has more than one room, for tactics sake. ;)



And it would be nice, if I had an map editor. But that is another story. That is the only thing I liked about Neverwinter MMO. You really should think about user generated content. Let us "construct" the low level quest for Faerun.

[MiKe_de]

I know this is an old thread but this has to be mentioned.

Can we not have dungeon scaling in the challenges? It should be easier not harder to do these challenges with more people.

You mean. deactivate this ****ing dungeon scaling, right? It's so bad, that sometimes groups were build with 2 players and one hireling. To prevent the dungeon scaling from kicking in.

It should really be easier with more people.

And for gods sake. Please mind, that reincarnated chars are stronger. so do not measure the dungeon scaling base level based on THEM or the power gamers. You will never ever get new players, if they suck in these challenges or quests.

[Silvias]

I am a LONG TIME player of ddo. I made my first account the very first day you could.

When the challenges first came out they were packed with people because of the XP, then we found out that challenges were double scaled (ie the amount of mobs that spawn where dependent on how many players/non-gold seal hires as well as the mobs hp/saves/damage being scaled), usually there is only one or the other type of scaling. So after that got out then the challenge groups totally vanished. I have 13 TR chars, 4 of them are as uber as possible and they can solo challenges so easy, then I have some "flavor" chars(not uber but man they are fun!) and they suck in the challenges, and my flavor chars got some gear man (2 GS items full EH or better suit-all epic weapons) and they still suck. I recently took a break from DDO and when I cam back you guys had nerfed the xp in the challenges and not changed the scaling! I used to put up lfms and take all the guys who couldn't do the challenges through, it was worth it to me because I made some xp and also made friends and got to show some noobs the ropes....now with the way it is, I can not do that because it is too much of a time sink...no xp..double scaling......the same pathetic amount of rewards?

Turbine put in the challenge system then ruined it. BUMP THE XP OR THE INGREDIENTS OR FIX THE SCALING.EITHER WAY SOMETHING MUST BE DONE BECAUSE THE CHALLENGES ARE A WASTE OF SERVER SPACE AS IS

[SofiaNRage]

On the whole I hate challenges. That being said I have been enjoying the under-dark arena challenges on a few of my characters, thought the BtC of the rewards instead of being BtA like on other challenges is very annoying.
I hate the fact that you could never run a quest and still cap a character, as well as getting end rewards that are better than any non-challenge loot at a similar level.
The scaling of monster HP and abilities sees very skewered to the point that mobs seem very over powered for most players.

[Inoukchuk]

I did them now a few times in the lower levels and must say Disruptor is easy in lowlevel but rewards still suck and there is no way i will ever get more then 1 large lvl3 tower.

Scaling is such a ***** there its not worth running this challenge with anything above lvl10, i prefer lvl7 this way you can run lvl9 and still instakill everything there and the cannons do some damage to the mobs.
On higher lvl the cannons do almost nothing to the mobs.

Also i find that my drunk has almost no chance to kill the bosses (kobold/master) in higher levels, just to much water elemental and they re-spawn to fast.
Tried one time with a Fighter without evasion, he was dead before he found the boss in the bunch of elementals <<
No AE and Dotting the boss dead seems the only way

Yeah, mansion is MUCH easier on a caster (preferably PM) that can just finger/PWK the water ele's.

I get the impression that the developers actually don't want people playing challenges and would prefer to herd everyone into the new content, which is too bad. People deserve the full game experience. Both the Cannith challenges and Cove deserve an update to bring in ML 24 gear (and probably ML 28? gear). Cove is very fun IMO, but with new content the rewards there have all lost their luster, there is nothing worth pursuing anymore once you have a small set of items. Other than that the low level Cannith challenge gear needs a small boost. There is almost nothing below level 12 worth pursuing on most toons, and really the gear doesn't get decent before 16 with a few notable exceptions (12 water khopesh, any level tunic or bracers). It's nice that the higher end gear is competitive, but why bother putting in a bunch of items that realistically nobody will farm or use? Cove is the same way with the exception of the ML 4 trinkets and the new flask. I'd LOVE to see ML 24 Bow of Earth, Rock Boots, Frozen Tunic, Bracers of Air, Greataxe of Fire, Water Khopesh, Mournlode Maul, Cavalry Plate, Ring of the Bucc, Spare Hand, etc. Those 2 areas were so well done with so much good usable (but not OP) loot... it saddens me to see it die off.

[Arlannis]

Seems clear to me that there are at least two kinds of players of this game: Those who live for the combat, and consider any challenge that isn't one long combat fest to be a waste, and those who love the non-combat parts of the game and consider any challenge that is one long combat to be a waste. No way to make them both happy at the same time, so you'd think having a variety of types would be good -- but then people can't get all the mats they need without having to do the "other" kind of challenge.

I'm the second type of player. I love puzzles, provided they have a variable solution. My least favorite challenges are the Underdark Arena ones, just as I find Devil's Assault boring.

My second least favorite are the other Eveningstar challenges. There's supposedly a little bit of puzzle/problem-solving element to them, but in fact it's so straightforward there's no reason to vary from the same basic routine.

Crystal Cove would still be for me the ideal challenge, except for one thing: The waterfall is so predictably the best place to head early on that a large part of the puzzle has been lost. On the other hand, I'm grinding for green crystal so heavily at this point (it being by far the bottleneck to the whole process) that it's kind of nice to have a predictable source.

For the Cannith challenges, there's plenty of room for fine-tuning individual ones, but on the whole I enjoy the lava caves and dragon palace for the same reason I like Crystal Cove.

I personally like The Disruptor, in concept, because it is a puzzle with many possible solutions.

Rushmore's Mansion bores me, because the first section is always exactly the same. Once I figured out the optimal way through the halls to smash/kill as much as possible, there's no reason to ever vary it. Running it with a group would undoubtedly change the dynamic, but like everything else in the game these days, an LFM for these is hard to find, and I don't feel comfortable trying to lead one for Rushmore.

[FrostBeard]

All they need to do is simplify the materials required to build challenge items to a universal level so that that they can be transferred across challenges.
Again another system the developers need to overhaul.

This is evident in some of the challenges like Vaults of the Artificers.
you can trade 3 of a mat for 1 of another.
That way people can do 3x the work on challenges they enjoy or mix it up to save time.
This should be universal with every challenge in the game.

Many Items from these challenges will become underpowered or already are.
once the level cap goes up this will get far worse.

I don't understand why there are so many different systems of currency in DDO
challenge mats, crafting mats, collectables, augments, ingredients, tokens, seals-scrolls-shards, crystals (have i missed any. probably.)
it is ridiculous for new players and incredibly confusing for older ones.

Is it a ploy to make more money from the cash shop bags gimmick? possibly.
Is it incredibly hard to manage? yes.
I personally can spend 1-3 hours looking for some of these currencies through only 5 characters, I truly feel sorry for those with many more than myself.


Moral of the story simplify your in game currencies and overhaul the older in game challenge items before/during Shadowfell Conspiracy release.
Its very doubtful you will do this, but at least i can say hey i told you guys.

[Whitering]

If you are VIP there is really no reason, other than perhaps not giving xp to your TR toon, to not just have an alt specialized to whatever challenge level. I a level 5 repeater artificer is kickass at Behind the Door and Kobold Island Chaos. A level 15 human male monk, or maybe half elf (can they get the ddoor dragonmark?) can easily solo most of them. Still, a ranged character does have the advantage of being able to kite/damage as they keep moving through the challenge.

Buying Time? Easy for any class unless you are very unlucky. I think the conversion ratio, at least for the lowbie challenges is 3-1.

Still, in a 3 star run of Buying Time, where I might just eek over the 100, it's a 5-7 minute run for about 110 or so whatever trophies, and it's hardly difficult.

They are all scaled so you should get 3x more reward for a 3x longer challenge, but you can milk the system just a little.

I don't know where I got them, but I have a pair of non bound 3x Expeditious Retreat boots that make a world of difference for challenge running.

[Enguebert]

I love the challenge because

1) you know how long it will take, very useful when you have only 15 min to play
2) Even if gain is slow, you know that each success bring you closer to the item you want. You know that you will have the item you want in , for example 8-10 run. On the other hand if you want a named item, you can have it one run, or maybe 100 run
3) You have loot for every level range

Now, from my experience,
1) being fast help a lot. So have strinding or expedious retreat for the whole time. Barbarian/monk speed or sprint boost are a +
Dimension door also help a lot
2) If you are for mats, being alone is often better than being in group because of scaling. Even a hire can be a problem.
3) Killing quickly monsters is vital. At low level, a barbarian with a 2h and PA works fine. At higher level, spellcaster with FoD or similar things works better

Now, some spell/abilities are wonderfull in some challenges :
- banish vs elemental (especially those who protect crystal or rushmore). it is an area spell, so you can remove 2 or 3 elementals quickly
- divine light (cleric/paladin enhancement) and you remove undead quickly in Disruptor. Hey, at level 9, i need around 3 sec to get rid of the giant skeleton (3 turning uses)
- If you are ranger/druid : wild empathy works fine vs lion or scorpions (if you have the enhancement). Very useful if you need to quickly remove animal from a kobold

[Readcom]

In my opinion, just plain sucks.
I don't care for the items, i just not going to farm challenge for that.
Find them extremely unreal and out of meaning.

[brian14]

I've come to a conclusion that Colossal Crystals require at least one of two things:

1. A group which knows what it is doing
2. Dimension Door spell

You can manage without Dimension Door if everyone in the party know the layout, know their tasks, and stick to them. If the party does not know what it is doing, scaling kills it (sometimes literally).

With Dimension Door, I am better off soloing. On a CC-specced bard, I found it quite easy -- park a melee hire near the foreman, find the crests while Charming everything in the way, lay the torches from a gate to the nearest teleport circle, and just before kobolds grab the big crystal lay a line of disco balls along torch line. If I am forced to use a hireling with Dimension Door, it is harder but still doable. Unfortunately I know of only such hireling, and he is level 10 (11?) and won't survive long in Epic difficulties. Yesterday my ranger 21 spent over an hour banging at Colossal Crystals, with and without a party, with zero results. Epic Picture Portals (trade goblets for scorpions) is less of a PITA, but still far from certain. I came to paradoxical realization that the easiest and fastest way to get 600 Epic Jade Scorpions I need for crafting is to run Labor Shortage until I have 2400 Epic Scrolls, then trade scrolls->goblets->scorpions.