Someone explain my guild's bad reputation?

[Olath_Senger]

So, I've been a part of this guild for a little over a year now. It's friendly, casual, and gets the job done for what I look for in a guild.

I'm a member of RogueForce.

The biggest, and by far most common criticism seems to be our recruiting policies. While I won't deny we had very lenient policies of recruiting (everyone was an officer and could recruit anyone) the officer system changed dramatically about a year ago and have changed again a couple months ago to a recruiting officer system. In fact, we're not recruiting at all at the moment. In fact, the vast majority of new members I saw coming in before we stopped recruiting were just alts of other members.

So Thelanis, what else is there? Bad experiences with members? Perhaps guild rivalries that I am unaware of? Explanations are very much appreciated, and I genuinely want to know what's up.

[Siftrant]

You pretty much hit it on the head.

There are so many of you and the recruiting wasn't at all selective. Your guild is basically a cross-section of the general population... The general population is terrible and annoying to group with.

I have several of your guildies on my friends list and enjoy grouping with that but I do know that there is an initial reaction to the guild name if nobody knows the toon in question.

[WruntJunior]

You pretty much hit it on the head.

There are so many of you and the recruiting wasn't at all selective. Your guild is basically a cross-section of the general population... The general population is terrible and annoying to group with.

I have several of your guildies on my friends list and enjoy grouping with that but I do know that there is an initial reaction to the guild name if nobody knows the toon in question.

This is pretty much it. Bad experiences with said guild have left me where if I don't know the person in question, I will decline them based on guild alone if they're from Rogueforce.

As a note, this is not one experience, this is the result of MANY bad experiences with multiple people from Rogueforce.

[T_ward7a]

The biggest problems I have had with Rogueforce has mainly been a lack of communication and overall readiness (gear, knowledge) to do certain content (epics, raids, end game, etc).

Rogueforce members would join groups and then when asked if they could do something there would either be no response or a lack of understanding. The latter is not a problem if they are willing to listen, but not responding to a party leader, or other members gets irritating and can be harmful to the party.

As of lately I haven't run with many Rogueforce people, as a guildie and I are going through some TR's together but when I have grouped with them, there has seemed to be an increase in capabilities and I commend you guys for working to make a better name for yourselves.

[Adrian99]

Well, I wouldn't say that your guild has a bad reputation, just that there is a reputation, and it's not necessarily what more experienced players are looking for in a PUG setting. I only have my own experience to rely on, but as far as that goes, I have learned to adjust my expectations towards the lower end when grouping with those of the RF or TMX tag.

[Olath_Senger]

there has seemed to be an increase in capabilities and I commend you guys for working to make a better name for yourselves.

Yeah, over the past several months we've been doing large bootings of inactives and we're taking more of a zero-tolerance stance on how players affect our guild name, along with, as I said, new, stricter recruiting policies.

Good to know it's mainly just the recruiting thing. That's pretty much fixed now. I'd be a whole lot more concerned if it was bad guild members instead.

[Cryohazard]

The biggest, and by far most common criticism seems to be our recruiting policies.

/snip

So Thelanis, what else is there? Bad experiences with members? Perhaps guild rivalries that I am unaware of? Explanations are very much appreciated, and I genuinely want to know what's up.

I'd say, recruitment and a few bad experiences, mostly. Not really much rivalry on the server (at least that I'm aware of)

Siftrant nailed it regarding recruiting the cross-section of the general population. We also lost a couple of our long-time guild members to you guys, with no warning or goodbyes. I have no right to prevent players from guilding where they want to, but the whole incident was handled rather badly, and it left some bad tastes in our mouths.

As far as experiences go, I've had generally good ones. But there's always those bad ones I run into, or hear about in guild chat. I personally think a lot of it is overreaction on the server's part, since some of the stuff is just silly mistakes (barb walking into a trap the rogue is trying to disable). But there's those bigger incidents (150 hp sorc in epics, some guy ignoring raid instructions...etc) that stand out. And then you have the experienced player body we have here on Thelanis tries to offer some helpful advice, and it gets rejected and thrown aside.

Unfortunately, those few bad experiences are more "memorable" than the many good experiences. But hats off to you guys for trying to cut down on the bad ones. :D

My 2 cp.

[Faent]

I'd say you guild has been improving. Props on that.

Still, the top fifteen elite guilds on Thelanis will not accept a toon from Rogueforce over a toon from another top fifteen or twenty guild, unless they know that toon. In the past, accepting a toon from Rogueforce meant accepting a toon who didn't know what was going on. Today, accepting an unknown toon from Rogueforce means accepting a toon that may well not know the quest or how to play their toon effectively, etc...

In no particular order, the top fifteen guild list on Thelanis looks something like this:

DWAT
Inferus Sus
Pestilence
Maelstrom
DIV
Renowned
Eternal Infinity
Archangels
Erebus
aLiclan
LAG
Legion
House D Thelanis Branch
DOSPARA
Allez Ecosse

Accepting a toon from one of these guilds ensures that you get a great player. And you can pretty much be assured of this on the basis of the guildtag alone. The Rogueforce guildtag doesn't yet *guarantee* anything. You might get a decent toon, and you might not. You almost certainly won't get an elite toon. And you're not likely to get an elite player, although if you're lucky, you'll get a player who can play their toon in an elite fashion.

In short, when it comes to accepting members of Rogueforce, one wants to know the member of Rogueforce first. The guildtag isn't yet a reason to accept a member of Rogueforce.

[Seftonblake]

I'd say you guild has been improving. Props on that.

Still, the top fifteen elite guilds on Thelanis will not accept a toon from Rogueforce over a toon from another top fifteen or twenty guild, unless they know that toon. In the past, accepting a toon from Rogueforce meant accepting a toon who didn't know what was going on. Today, accepting an unknown toon from Rogueforce means accepting a toon that may well not know the quest or how to play their toon effectively, etc...

In no particular order, the top fifteen guild list on Thelanis looks something like this:

DWAT
Inferus Sus
Pestilence
Maelstrom
DIV
Renowned
Eternal Infinity
Archangels
Erebus
aLiclan
LAG
Legion
House D Thelanis Branch
DOSPARA
Allez Ecosse

Accepting a toon from one of these guilds ensures that you get a great player. And you can pretty much be assured of this on the basis of the guildtag alone. The Rogueforce guildtag doesn't yet *guarantee* anything. You might get a decent toon, and you might not. You almost certainly won't get an elite toon. And you're not likely to get an elite player, although if you're lucky, you'll get a player who can play their toon in an elite fashion.

In short, when it comes to accepting members of Rogueforce, one wants to know the member of Rogueforce first. The guildtag isn't yet a reason to accept a member of Rogueforce.

Just a tip from an old timer.

Do not pick just anyone as suggested by the above poster, as thats what get RF into trouble in the 1st place.

IMO less than half that list has 100% quality (and that quality covers kit, knowledge and most important good people).

I use my Friends List to note who's who and my reasons ;)

[Forzah]

Did evelah yesterday, and the bard was from RogueForce. It was pretty disappointing, as he died 3 times at firebase, 2 times at mephit base and 2 more times during the velah fight. But he got rewarded with a red helmet nonetheless.

[Ghibly]

DWAT
Inferus Sus
Pestilence
Maelstrom
DIV
Renowned
Eternal Infinity
Archangels
Erebus
aLiclan
LAG
Legion
House D Thelanis Branch
DOSPARA
Allez Ecosse

Lol is it a joke? Where are Mitis Mors, Arise, Legion of Xendrik, Alpha, Wings of Darkness?

Moreover if you cite some guilds you should even consider House of Boii, I Granchi Aviatori, Timidus Tenebris, etc...

Just a tip: it's always a bad idea to make a list (unless you're Schindler...)

[Seftonblake]

I'd say you guild has been improving. Props on that.

Still, the top fifteen elite guilds on Thelanis will not accept a toon from Rogueforce over a toon from another top fifteen or twenty guild, unless they know that toon. In the past, accepting a toon from Rogueforce meant accepting a toon who didn't know what was going on. Today, accepting an unknown toon from Rogueforce means accepting a toon that may well not know the quest or how to play their toon effectively, etc...

In no particular order, the top fifteen guild list on Thelanis looks something like this:

DWAT
Inferus Sus
Pestilence
Maelstrom
DIV
Renowned
Eternal Infinity
Archangels
Erebus
aLiclan
LAG
Legion
House D Thelanis Branch
DOSPARA
Allez Ecosse

Accepting a toon from one of these guilds ensures that you get a great player. And you can pretty much be assured of this on the basis of the guildtag alone. The Rogueforce guildtag doesn't yet *guarantee* anything. You might get a decent toon, and you might not. You almost certainly won't get an elite toon. And you're not likely to get an elite player, although if you're lucky, you'll get a player who can play their toon in an elite fashion.

In short, when it comes to accepting members of Rogueforce, one wants to know the member of Rogueforce first. The guildtag isn't yet a reason to accept a member of Rogueforce.

Just a tip from an old timer.

Do not pick just anyone as suggested by the above poster, as thats what get RF into trouble in the 1st place.

IMO less than half that list has 100% quality (and that quality covers kit, knowledge and most important good people).

I use my Friends List to note who's who and my reasons ;) Start noting down players and soon enough you can build up a good who's who.

I expect some from the guilds mentioned above to attack me for not saying they are 100% quality, i would defend my guild also. But to give that list a 100% approval is wrong.

Hand on heart those guilds could easy pick out others on the list they wouldn't just blanket recruit from.

[Daggertooth]

I've got no problem with RogueForce and pretty much include em as I would any of the known guilds for having decently competent players. Only time I might not consider taking one would be if I was doing like Amrath Elite or something where I was possibly expecting some problems. I did have one guy join a small problem epic and ran didnt know the quest and ran around and woke up a bunch of earth ele's and it ****ed the leader off and the guy was pretty non-chalant about it... only time I've had any incident and I see em around alot.

[Denegrator]

Just a tip: it's always a bad idea to make a list (unless you're Schindler...)

lol, what he said. :D

Plenty of good players around at all levels, and never judge a book by its cover. ;)

Ran a few q's with an entire Noobforce (affectionate name, don't mean it offensively) group about a week or so ago. I had an absolute blast with them, ran reaver and shroud, couldn't stop laughing the whole way. Nice guys. That's all that matters to me. :)

[gerardIII]

Epitaph

[Faent]

Lol is it a joke? Where are Mitis Mors, Arise, Legion of Xendrik? Moreover if you cite some guilds you should even consider House of Boii, I Granchi Aviatori, Timidus Tenebris, etc... Just a tip: it's always a bad idea to make a list (unless you're Schindler...)

I don't see any reason to revise my list on the basis of your suggestions.

[MrWizard]

I always got the impression there were a few players of skill and experience and a lot of players who were still learning.
However, there were many I ran into that seemed to be very new, inexperienced, non communicative, and would just rush somewhere to a red alert, get killed, and then leave.

When you have a mix like that, it is easy to see how some would be very wary of letting someone join knowing they may grief you.

In defense of rogueforce I have seen a few quests go south and the hero that saved the day was a rogueforce member.

IT takes years to understand the game and get the gear. A lot of people in those top guilds were here when some of the gear was easier to acquire through events or tons of raids being run. That is not the case now, much harder for new people to quickly equip.

Back in the day, a good amount of skill and game knowledge could easily get you through with a party regardless of raid gear (or crafted) or even without any.
That has changed and to survive and not die easily you do need good knowledge of the build you are using and skill, but gear has become a very large part of that now.

gear takes time. Rogueforce is made of newer players. Takes time to be a great guild. In a year or two it will be rogueforce zooming around and being elite. You are just paying your dues now.

[Ghibly]

I don't see any reason to revise my list on the basis of your suggestions.
I didn't ask you to...

[K_0tiC]

As for the op once you get a bad rep its pretty hard to fix it. Much eaiser for me to click accept to the next pugger thats in a guild I know then to risk it on a possible fail but only if its a key position in a more complex raid. Shroud for example if there are 1~2 competent healers and a caster that can break a crystal you should be able to take the first 9 clickers and succeed but something like epic chrono or abbot im going to think twice before clicking accept to someone that has left me down numerous times.

[Ghibly]

everyone knows alpha is full of noobs...
:d :d :d

[Faent]

IMO less than half that list has 100% quality (and that quality covers kit, knowledge and most important good people).

You're so awesome! Now let's be serious. You take a hit from someone in the list of guilds I provided, and you take a hit from someone in Rogueforce. You don't know either of the players/toons. Who do you take?


I use my Friends List to note who's who and my reasons ;)

You're awesome.

[Forzah]

I don't see any reason to revise my list on the basis of your suggestions.

Arise definitely beats many guilds on your list. DWAT, LAG, Maelstrom Tharask and Inferus Sus are certainly worse than Arise.

[Ghibly]

http://www.gifsforum.com/images/gif/pop%20corn/grand/deer_pop_corn_gif.gif

[tuta]

I didn't really have some terrible expirience with RogueForce members like some friends from my guild where some of them went to extent not running anything with any member from RogueForce for some time. So when making raids and member from this guild wants to apply, it always means MyDDO for me and when in doubt (which is really often) clicking Decline.

On the other hand, there is surely some improvement in recent time. I was really suprised when I joined elite Madstone Crater IP and saw that both and only people in are from RogueForce. So I mentally prepared for something terrible, vented in guild TeamSpeak how unlucky I was, and was sort of shocked when I realized that they are actually competent.

[Seftonblake]

You take a hit from someone in the list of guilds I provided, and you take a hit from someone in Rogueforce. You don't know either of the players/toons. Who do you take?


If I didn’t know either:

Maybe I wait little longer?
Maybe i check my friends list for any notes on the players?
Maybe I ask them if they know quest and judge by the response?
Maybe I check myddo?
.......the maybe list can go on and on.

Sorry but I don’t take someone because they are in a "known guild"


Because your picking my statement out to give a different idea of my explanation. I will explain and put it in a simple format, so hopefully you won’t need to retort.


I wouldn’t pick just anyone from the top 5, 10 or 20 of the so called best guilds (or whatever list is knocking around). In fact, I wouldn’t pick certain people from the above list to run harbour favour.

My point was, create a list of players you enjoy the company of (and the ones you don’t) and maybe use myddo as a backup to new faces. But be aware just because they have KIT doesn’t make them good players, IMO only a fool makes that assumption.

The OP opening gambit states in his own words they recruited anyone regardless of age, VIP, playtime, goals, voice etc etc. Every guild has a core and new recruits should blend into it (o make a good guild grow with a good reputation). Unfortunately for Rogue Force their recruitment policy wasn’t set with any agenda and because of this they will have major issues (maybe for the entire life of the guild). Soz for doom and gloom RF peeps.


You're so awesome!

Thanks, but not sure what that’s got to do with the OP topic

[Seftonblake]

Before the thread gets out of hand and personal by naming people or guilds they belong to, I think we should revert back to the OP topic and give objective notes on why RogueForce have a bad reputation

...and if possible what they can do to change/challenge the reputation he suggests RogueForce has

[grayham]

There is nothing healthy or constructive about this thread.

It should be closed.

[Denegrator]

There is nothing healthy or constructive about this thread.

It should be closed.

IBTL, shr plz. :p :p

And aye, it isn't very constructive tbh.

[darkrune]

Guild reputations are like STDs... easy to get the more people you are associated with, bad for your health ( game experience), and really hard to get rid of ( the only penicillin in DDO is new guild) and once people know you have one good luck finding someone to play with you.

You guild has a poor rep for all the reasons stated above in the op, plus all the others unmentioned. It will be a long road to try to fix the name you all have earned together.

Good luck in your exercise to fix your rep.

[Viisari]

Arise definitely beats many guilds on your list. DWAT, LAG, Maelstrom Tharask and Inferus Sus are certainly worse than Arise.

But what about Wings? I'm so sad now :<

[singol2010]

Arise definitely beats many guilds on your list. DWAT, LAG, Maelstrom Tharask and Inferus Sus are certainly worse than Arise.

mmmm

Caco is in Arise????

So Arise can´t beat any guild, sorry caco


:P

Tyr

[Forzah]

But what about Wings? I'm so sad now :<

I'm sad too... for forgetting you :(

[xprincezuman]

Lol is it a joke? Where are Mitis Mors, Arise, Legion of Xendrik, Alpha?

Moreover if you cite some guilds you should even consider House of Boii, I Granchi Aviatori, Timidus Tenebris, etc...

Just a tip: it's always a bad idea to make a list (unless you're Schindler...)

what about thinkers ....... and everybody knows alpha is a punch of noobs but they know how to pretend they are a good players

[Ghibly]

But what about Wings? I'm so sad now :<
Yeah true mate! Edited

[Cordovan]

We're done here.