Ring of Master artifice is broken, if working as intended the intention is broken.

[Zuka]

Okay guys, I have a W/F monk tank, he's incredibly solid and can tank an elite VoD with only one stack of recon scrolls from one caster. Thank you so much for making earth stance viable as a tank, lord knows I caught all sorts of junk about my earth build before the update, and now everyone wants my build specs. Thanks for making the ring for us, I mean, it's about time since there's been a heal "guard" shield in the game for ages now, and I see you added a full plate for those two hander builds or dual wielders, that's awesome.

Here's my problem, the ring of master artifice has one charge of reconstruct (SWEET) at a 10'th level caster (wait a minute, that's the only clicky in the game cast below the minimum caster level, oh well, 100 pts is still nice) instead of an 11'th level casting which is the minimum for the spell on ANY build. Okay, not that big a deal, I mean, healing amp has no effect on reconstruction (as opposed to the heal "guards") but at least we get a good recon guard item, right? Wrong, the recon "guard" that goes off is only as a 9'th level caster (Hold on... now we're down two levels below the minimum? Wierd, no other clicky or guard does that) so what gives guys?

I have enough healing amp to actually get about 35% more from positive energy than a recon, and obviously every (good) healer boosts his healing output, so on average a heal at minimum level hits me for 309.375 ( to be exact) only considering the healer has +50% from enhancements, and a 50% item on. Whereas the same recon usually only hits me for about 110 (if the caster is recon specc'ed for some bizarre reason 165, or with an item 247.5) My amp has no effect on this number and there's no variety of amp that I can get that will.

So I'm just saying, if you're going to give us just the one item, then please, just make it a reasonable item, give me the actual minimum caster level, I'm only going to get 110 from it, not the 185.9 that any old fleshy stalwart defender who since the update doesn't have to work NEARLY as hard as me for HP or hate gen. I just think if you're going to make an item like this, don't gimp it by default, it's already gimped because we W/F tanks can't effect the recons we get in any way anyways. If that's not an acceptable solution, then please give us a heal "guard" docent, at least that will give me more than 1/7'th of my HP (90 pts on a recon "guard" item, as opposed to 148.5 with a heal "guard" I'm a monk with maxed amp and 712 un-buffed HP) so that, like my fleshy friends, I can know that my gear, while different, is just as good in it's own way, not gimped by default.

P.S. I have been corrected, the dragonmarks that grant the spell are available at a caster level 9, but I would like to add. SERIOUSLY?!? You don't determine spell charges on an item with spell-like abilities, you determine it with spells. Where in the books does it say "Use lowest caster level available to creatures with this ability as a spell-like." seriously guys, fix both of the guards, apparently according to the very wise person who has corrected me, healer's bounty is also at level 9, as the dragonmark of healing. Come on developers, seriously?

[WielderofGigantus]

Paragraphs please.

And about how often does auto-repair proc?

[Zuka]

Paragraphs separated, sorry about that. I'd say it procs somewhere around 5%, haven't had it that long though so I can't be exact. Based on testing I think I'm being generous with that estimate. Roughly one tenth as often as my nightmare guard, whatever that proc rate is.

[scoobmx]

You just have to accept that warforged is the gimpier race for all melees. They take penalties to 2 stats and suffer huge insurmountable healing penalties and don't even bring good enhancements. There are also far less docents than armors and they cannot get as high of an AC. It's a flavor race unless you're playing casters.

[Bacab]

Well part of it may be the WIZ or SOR you run with.

My WIZ/ROG has the scroll mastery and the is actually Recon/Repair Specced.

He is a WF though. My job in most raids is traps/kiting/healer of WF Tank (if that's what we are using).

I do understand your frustration. But healing amp is pretty much the ONLY drawback for playing a WF. Otherwise...they would be the ONLY race.

[Xenostrata]

If the recon proc is the same as Healer's Bounty, then it should be ~2%.

The Wiki description says the persistent repair should be 1 hp every 10 seconds. Nothing useful. At all. Seriously, it would take 75 minutes to fully heal a 450 hp warforged - and personally, my WF is sitting at 700.

[Xenostrata]

Well part of it may be the WIZ or SOR you run with.

My WIZ/ROG has the scroll mastery and the is actually Recon/Repair Specced.

He is a WF though. My job in most raids is traps/kiting/healer of WF Tank (if that's what we are using).

I do understand your frustration. But healing amp is pretty much the ONLY drawback for playing a WF. Otherwise...they would be the ONLY race.

I disagree.

All melee bonuses? Horcs get them, and more.
Reconstructability? It's nice, but never crucial - hell, AC tanking suulo is easier by a huge margin.
What other bonuses do they have? I mean, I initially intended to end my Sorc as a Warforged - then I decided that being able to scroll heal a human was enough, and that the +2 to DCs I'd get just for not going warforged was enough.

[Therrias]

You can cast both reconstruct and heal at caster level 9 using their respective dragonmarks.

[Bacab]

I disagree.

All melee bonuses? Horcs get them, and more.
Reconstructability? It's nice, but never crucial - hell, AC tanking suulo is easier by a huge margin.
What other bonuses do they have? I mean, I initially intended to end my Sorc as a Warforged - then I decided that being able to scroll heal a human was enough, and that the +2 to DCs I'd get just for not going warforged was enough.

I meant the whole being immune to all those negative effects. If WF didn't have -Healing Amp WF would have like no drawback...also lets remember...they can be healed by 2 sources.

I understand Marilith Chain (and Epic version of course) are nice for fleshies. But the Docent of Defiance is strong too.

Anyway, what I guess I really mean is...if you hate that your WF is hard to heal...play something else? I mean don't come on here as an Elf ROG or RNG and complain about having low HP. You chose your race/class. Live with the pros and cons. Try your best to build/gear around your weaknesses.

BTW that is why I love DDO. You can try crazy builds and race/class combos. Just don't be angry when it does not work as well as your thought it would. BTW I have partied with GREAT Halfling barbs that where multi-TRed and picked Halfling for their Barb life just for the giggles...they still showed me up lol.

[sweez]

Reconstructability? It's nice, but never crucial - hell, AC tanking suulo is easier by a huge margin.


Not only that, but unless you're running elite you can easily scroll heal a 0 AC fleshy Suulu tank in either VoD or ToD while taking care of their curses and never running out of SP. It'll even be much much easier than healing a WF tank unless you spec'd heavily into repair enhancements (why would you do that btw? my WF sorc just has 1 point into repair enhancements, with a superior mending clicky I self heal for 300ish, what would I need more for?), assuming the fleshy in question has decent heal amp (which is pretty trivial to achieve on a fleshy).

As someone who plays both divines and arcanes as well as melees, I honestly don't see the point of WF melees at end-game. Now, if you could get incoming repair amp like you can get heal amp, would prolly be a different story.

[Zuka]

You just have to accept that warforged is the gimpier race for all melees. They take penalties to 2 stats and suffer huge insurmountable healing penalties and don't even bring good enhancements. There are also far less docents than armors and they cannot get as high of an AC. It's a flavor race unless you're playing casters.

funny, my W/F tank (monk) has better healing amp than almost any barb I run with, or most fighters/pally's with as much or more HP, and FAAAAR better DR (20% off the top from earth stance and 10/epic applied afterwards) Not mentioning I can hit 75 AC with a base 14 wis and 15 dex. Yeah, not stalwart AC, but better than ANY barb i know (who usually get chosen to tank over me, despite the insane damage they take) yours is a point made by a W/F hater, and therefore is moot in this thread. The stat penalties btw, are to wisdom and charisma, neither is absolutely pivotal unless you're a monk, and I'm living proof that the penalty is not impossible to deal with, as is every soul survivor who ends up running ANY end game content.


Well part of it may be the WIZ or SOR you run with.

My WIZ/ROG has the scroll mastery and the is actually Recon/Repair Specced.

He is a WF though. My job in most raids is traps/kiting/healer of WF Tank (if that's what we are using).

I do understand your frustration. But healing amp is pretty much the ONLY drawback for playing a WF. Otherwise...they would be the ONLY race.

That's what I'm getting at, frustration, you're absolutely right that a well built reconner is good at it, but even in said cases it's not the same as a lvl 20 heal with base boosting enhancements and items, I wish it were, that would be sweet, my W/F caster usually recons around 300 (MAXED recon specialization) I disagree they'd be the ONLY race, but they're awesome, I'm just exactly what you said "Frustrated" because it seems like no matter what i do, the devs don't want my W/F to have the same or equal benefits to a fleshy, melee combat is exactly what W/F are designed for, in story purposes and in stats.

[Bacab]

Disclaimer...

I am recently back from a 14 month lay off...many things may have changed...

Also this game is all about your playstyle...

If you spend year(s) at level 20 running Raids and Epics...WF may not be your "best" race now it seems.

BUT if you TR the week you ding 20...maybe WF is perfect for you?

[scoobmx]

funny, my W/F tank (monk) has better healing amp than almost any barb I run with, or most fighters/pally's with as much or more HP, and FAAAAR better DR (20% off the top from earth stance and 10/epic applied afterwards) Not mentioning I can hit 75 AC with a base 14 wis and 15 dex. Yeah, not stalwart AC, but better than ANY barb i know (who usually get chosen to tank over me, despite the insane damage they take) yours is a point made by a W/F hater, and therefore is moot in this thread. The stat penalties btw, are to wisdom and charisma, neither is absolutely pivotal unless you're a monk, and I'm living proof that the penalty is not impossible to deal with, as is every soul survivor who ends up running ANY end game content.
.

Ty for comparing apples to oranges for me. Now compare your build to a similar build using a fleshy. Notice higher heal amp and AC and the exact same DR.

Also notice I play all WF except one toon. Not really a hater

[mournbladereigns]

Dev's will fix it, but they will have to break handwraps again to do it.


Okay guys, I have a W/F monk tank, he's incredibly solid and can tank an elite VoD with only one stack of recon scrolls from one caster. Thank you so much for making earth stance viable as a tank, lord knows I caught all sorts of junk about my earth build before the update, and now everyone wants my build specs. Thanks for making the ring for us, I mean, it's about time since there's been a heal "guard" shield in the game for ages now, and I see you added a full plate for those two hander builds or dual wielders, that's awesome.

Here's my problem, the ring of master artifice has one charge of reconstruct (SWEET) at a 10'th level caster (wait a minute, that's the only clicky in the game cast below the minimum caster level, oh well, 100 pts is still nice) instead of an 11'th level casting which is the minimum for the spell on ANY build. Okay, not that big a deal, I mean, healing amp has no effect on reconstruction (as opposed to the heal "guards") but at least we get a good recon guard item, right? Wrong, the recon "guard" that goes off is only as a 9'th level caster (Hold on... now we're down two levels below the minimum? Wierd, no other clicky or guard does that) so what gives guys?

I have enough healing amp to actually get about 35% more from positive energy than a recon, and obviously every (good) healer boosts his healing output, so on average a heal at minimum level hits me for 309.375 ( to be exact) only considering the healer has +50% from enhancements, and a 50% item on. Whereas the same recon usually only hits me for about 110 (if the caster is recon specc'ed for some bizarre reason 165, or with an item 247.5) My amp has no effect on this number and there's no variety of amp that I can get that will.

So I'm just saying, if you're going to give us just the one item, then please, just make it a reasonable item, give me the actual minimum caster level, I'm only going to get 110 from it, not the 185.9 that any old fleshy stalwart defender who since the update doesn't have to work NEARLY as hard as me for HP or hate gen. I just think if you're going to make an item like this, don't gimp it by default, it's already gimped because we W/F tanks can't effect the recons we get in any way anyways. If that's not an acceptable solution, then please give us a heal "guard" docent, at least that will give me more than 1/7'th of my HP (90 pts on a recon "guard" item, as opposed to 148.5 with a heal "guard" I'm a monk with maxed amp and 712 un-buffed HP) so that, like my fleshy friends, I can know that my gear, while different, is just as good in it's own way, not gimped by default.

[protokon]

After thoroughly reading through this...

I agree with the OP. If warforged are going to take healing amp penalties regardless, they should also be able to increase their effectiveness to repair.

At the least, the ring should be fix to be more useful - 1hp every 10 seconds is an absolute joke...

[Azonalanthious]

Ty for comparing apples to oranges for me. Now compare your build to a similar build using a fleshy. Notice higher heal amp and AC and the exact same DR.

Also notice I play all WF except one toon. Not really a hater

How are you figuring higher AC? fleshie picks up 1 point from higher base WIS, but loses the warforged +2 base bonus, and the higher armor bonuses for monks aren't generally in the armor slot anyways, so docent vs robe doesn't matter there (though it does have other implications of course). And unless the fleshie is a dwarf, don't forget that the warforged is going to be looking at least 20 more hp, potentially as much as 60, on top of their immunities. Healing amp is always very nice, but there is more to life/melee success then it alone. Warforged may not be the very top most race for melee, but they still beat elves, drow, and humans in DPS, tie dwarves with the PA enhancement being more versatile then the dwarf's axe restriction, and are more consistent then halfling/helf sneak attack damage. The only DPSer I feel they clearly fall behind is horcs, and in every category BUT healing amp, they can generally take horcs on durability. Just my opinion of course, but I don't think their melee position is anywhere near as bleak as you were trying to make it sound.

Plus (not melee of course, but still) I love running around with my warforged artificer just because who doesn't like machine gun-and-laser arm toting robots in their fantasy games? ;)

[Jahmin]

wait a minute, that's the only clicky in the game cast below the minimum caster level
No :rolleyes:

Not to mention that Healer's Bounty is lvl9 as well - probably crafted from their respective marks.



All melee bonuses? Horcs get them, and more.
No, nor do Dwarves. Only WF get both tactical and damage enhancements.


Reconstructability? It's nice, but never crucial - hell, AC tanking suulo is easier by a huge margin.
AC gear conversely is significantly harder. See how that trade off works?

[krogyy]

healing amp effects should be changed to affect repair spells also.

it is sad to see the race created for war being so crippled at meleeing in the current end game.

[Zuka]

No :rolleyes:
Not to mention that Healer's Bounty is lvl9 as well - probably crafted from their respective marks.


OH snap, as I posted this I completely spaced on when I could take my halfling dragonmarks (never bothered with the human only repair mark), and it should be noted that I was told by a guildie, whom is very experienced and I trust endlessly that healer's bounty on his shield hit him as a level 11 caster, or at least that he was pretty certain that was the case. So I retract that no class can cast it at level 9, that was an oversight on my part.

Although I still think they should use the spell itself and not the mark's level for the recon item, once again, cannot effect it with healing amp, no matter how much you have, and I think that's already a good mitigation on recon.

Mind you I want everyone to know, I love my new ring, it's not what i was hoping, but it's a great piece of equipment, this is essentially just calling BS, as I was rather certain the spell couldn't be cast at level 9, I have been corrected, and as such I must change my call of BS, to a call of "Dude you guys! Totally unfair!"

[MRMechMan]

Repair Amp is definitely needed. Healing amp is in the game, why not repair amp?


Right now a warforged melee pretty much needs 10% (DT)/20% (DT/tod/leviks)/30% (Eclaw/GS x3 pos) to make a healer happy. There are a lot of benefits to going warforged but at endgame (immunities/25% base fort/yadda yadda) a lot of them don't matter. It sucks having to apologize because you have been unlucky with glove shard pulls in Edeeps. No other melee race would have to do so except WF. Beh :/

On WF chars my heals are much stronger fvs/clr lives with heal spell than sorc/wiz lives with reconstruct...that doesn't seem right.

[Episkopos]

Perhaps it's time for the ultimate abomination - the Half-Forged.

/nonotreally

[Angelus_dead]

Repair Amp is definitely needed. Healing amp is in the game, why not repair amp?
Repair Amplification would be harmful to DDO. A Warforged caster is already better than casters of other races; they don't need their self-healing to get even stronger.

[Krelar]

Perhaps it's time for the ultimate abomination - the Half-Forged.

/nonotreally

You mean an artificer with construct essence? :p

[Zuka]

Repair Amplification would be harmful to DDO. A Warforged caster is already better than casters of other races; they don't need their self-healing to get even stronger.

I just want to say, repair amp really wouldn't apply much to w/f casters, I doubt very much it would be highly popular among them either (except in the cases of items that had repair amp and cool spellcasting bonuses) Since, to be quite frank, spellcasters can already heal themselves to max with very little focus on repairing, you have to remember the d4 hit die of every arcane besides bards, who can't repair, or arti's who have a d6, which still isn't much. On top of that casters don't usually take a dozen and a half toughnesses so generally even a very beefy caster is only at around 500 (ish) HP, in which case two well cast recons will max his hitpoints, and in some cases just the one. I really don't see gamebreaking in this, besides that, if you deny that a fleshy Pale Master can't stand next to a warforged caster, I have a couple I'd like to introduce you to that own most w/f casters I've met. It's nice to have self recon, sure, but it's nicer to have all high saves with healing spells that can benefit everyone around you (fvs) and if you're willing to drop the not very useful capstone of that you can also get evasion (2 monk/rogue) so, while we have the favored soul, while we have the pale master, or the dwarven cleric (who can hit 600+ HP and a blocking DR of 35+ with maxed intim), no one can tell me that repair amp is gamebreaking.

[krogyy]

Repair Amplification would be harmful to DDO. A Warforged caster is already better than casters of other races; they don't need their self-healing to get even stronger.

it's not the first time i see this argument and frankly, i think it does not make much sense...

even now, most wf casters can recon themselves to full in one cast with minimum investment.
the few beefy arcanes that manage to reach 500 hp can invest some more AP and still heal a 80% of their hp in one cast.

self-overhealing is not gamebreaking.

if it were gamebreaking, the game would already be broken since there exist self-healing classes that enjoy healing amplification.

[mournbladereigns]

You mean an artificer with construct essence? :p

actually that's another good reason to add Repair amp items to the game, I'm running a human self-forged repair marked melee arty build.

[UniqueToo]

actually that's another good reason to add Repair amp items to the game, I'm running a human self-forged repair marked melee arty build.

Let it also be noted that the **** ring's triggered reconstruct and regen don't work on construct essence builds as the descriptions (and common sense) would lead you to believe.

[Postumus]

Perhaps it's time for the ultimate abomination - the Half-Forged.



It's called a fleshie artificer with Construct Essence. Or 'self-forged.'

[Postumus]

Let it also be noted that the **** ring's triggered reconstruct and regen don't work on construct essence builds as the descriptions (and common sense) would lead you to believe.



Seriously? That is lame. Guess my artificer doesn't need to run any challenges now.

[MRMechMan]

Repair amp would be overpowered?

At the moment high healing amp clerics and fvs can heal themselves for well over DOUBLE what a wf arcane can.

[Jinpo]

Seriously? That is lame. Guess my artificer doesn't need to run any challenges now.

Hah, yeah I just finished the T3 of the ring last night on my Drow Arti (with construct essence). When I equiped the ring it gave the message "you are immune to the repair systems effect". Boo hiss ;) I thought i saw the triggered effect go off though. I'll have to recheck that tonight.

[djsonar919]

Hah, yeah I just finished the T3 of the ring last night on my Drow Arti (with construct essence). When I equiped the ring it gave the message "you are immune to the repair systems effect". Boo hiss ;) I thought i saw the triggered effect go off though. I'll have to recheck that tonight.

Triggered effect does go off with a "self-forged" Artie. It seems to proc more with arrows hitting you than melee attacks. It also procs when jumping off a high ledge and taking falling damage.