Rogue <=> Artificer Build

[Zeronic]

At the moment training my tukaw is going kind of slow so in the meantime I would like to kill some time making either a rogue or an artificer. Eventually I want to TR the character into the other class named before. It seems to me starting as a rogue is better, making Arti my second life. What I want to ask if anyone could make a build with the character maker for either one of these classes, 32 point, with any race. Notable equips at lvl (5)/10/(15)/20 would be nice so I know where to aim for. Also notable is that if I start as a rogue I want a TRAPMONKEY, not DPS.
Thanx in advance ^^

[bibimbap]

The artificer will have a much easier time finding traps due to the int bonus, you will also have an easier time finding traps because you will be able to craft some gear to help. Finding traps and disabling them is more about having the right gear then anything else.

My rogue trap wiz can easily find traps 2 - 3 levels above him on elite because of the int bonus, though I do use the best possible equipment for that level. Guildies of mine have been able to find and disable traps in epics on their 1st life arties with just +13 search / disable items.

I personally like the arty quite a bit more but thats just my opinion anyhow.

[Eistander]

Both classes can be tough when not familiar with them as they do play similarly but not entirely like other classes.. and since your focus would be on ranged weapon use with trapping skills, a mechanic would be right up your alley (I will admit, I do not have intimate knowledge of the PrE, so I will leave stats out). Not to mention would be more forgiving through having innate Evasion and later Improved Evasion, as to make getting to and disabling traps easier.

As it was mentioned already, the easiest way to get through the rogue life with little hassle regarding your roguely duties would be to try and acquire the highest + search/spot/disable/open lock items that you can use at your level. Being a rogue, UMD will help bypass those nicer race required items that might pop up. For weapons, you will want to find a repeater (heavy does more damage, but whatever you can land that dishes out the most bang for your buck) and go from there.

So to stay on track, from an ease of use standpoint, go rogue first, get familiar with the ins and outs of trapping, then go artificer once you had the chance to get some gear for that life. Good luck!

[Zeronic]

Seems it is kind of obvious I should start with rogue :) And mechanic seemed kind of obvious yeah. Now all I need is a build and some nice gear suggestions. Thanx for all the info so far :D

[Jaid314]

making a rogue trap monkey is ultimately like taking a high school graduate and declaring you want to make them capable of handling single-digit addition and subtraction. yes, it can be done. no, it isn't something you're going to need to put any effort into whatsoever.

max your skills, have good gear, and carry appropriate buffs (heroism potions and fox's cunning potions will likely do fine for most places, but feel free to take a single skill boost tier just in case) and you'll find and disable every trap no problem.

[Zeronic]

I get the general idea. High Int, max umd, open lock etc, but I also need to take into consideration that it will tr into an arti, thus what sort of race I will pick and such. I don't have much experience with a rogue, so I would like to have a build I can follow by the letter ;) Thanx for all the advice so far though

[voodoogroves]

If you're just looking for a rogue past life and you'd like to minimize gear investment, I'd consider the first life to be maybe

Arti 6 / Rogue 13 / Fighter or Monk 1

Then life 2 can be

Arti 20


This gets you into the mode of using xbows, etc. You're easing into your arti life.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

Also notable is that if I start as a rogue I want a TRAPMONKEY, not DPS.
Thanx in advance ^^

So in other words, you want a gimp? :O
A pure dps rogue / arti / whatever, can do any trap in the game AND DPS. Why choose to over-specialize in one path, when you can get that path as good as the specialist without losing anything?

[Zeronic]

Because I want to focus on traps ;) not relying on gear too much to disable traps :) otherwise I would make a char with 1 lvl rogue and lots of skill points ;) instead of going mech :)

[Dr_Kyrgenstein]

I'm currently levelling up this human Arty build -

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4005961&postcount=4

and not experiencing any problems with traps with the minimal of gear. I have been running quests on hard or elite, managing to solo hard no problem. (you can even use Flame Turrets, your pet dog as well as hirelings on pressure plate quests). Only gear I've been using are the Goggles of Time Sensing (from Chronoscope) for +5 Spot and +5 Search from L5, and I've been taking care of traps no problem because of Int modifier only occaisionally using heroism clickie (not even needing to use skill boost). Seriously I haven't even failed a trap roll, let alone blown one and I always find boxes with search.

Very little gear related to trapping, +2 stat items moving up to +4 stat items at later levels, and a crafted Screaming/Bleeding Xbow. Using Flame Turret to take care of almost everything post L6 is nice and makes for easy levelling. The issue that you'll have with a rogue is soloability and survivability. I struggled to solo my Rogue, and even tried Mechanic/Acrobat PrEs at one point. Both are considerably weaker builds than Assassin.

f you want a Xbow Mechanic type, and it sounds as though you do, build an Arty and get Rune Arms (extra damage to every shot and a special attack), Elemental Damage (extra damage to every shot), Insightful Damage (using your Int modifier for damage, adds a lot) etc. The only Rogue you should be building is a Strength based Assassin who'll also handle traps with the right gear. A Dex based is gimp pure and simple. An Int based, well I aint gonna get into that or this will turn into a whole other discussion, read flame war. Lets just say it can be done, your assassinate dc will be unreal, but your dps and general killability will suffer. Soloing will be tricky, but not impossible I guess. For ease of levelling though I'd definitely choose the Str based Assassin, but it needs gear. That's where the Int based Arty comes in since he needs very little gear to thrive.

The other benefit with an arty is that every 2 levels you gain +1 to your Cannith crafting levels making crafting items to help you level all the easier. The dragonmarks (human is required for these) that you add on later, whilst some may say take away from your dps, allow you another +10 levels for a total of 20 crafting levels essentially for free. It is very easy to use this build as your Master Crafter, and get him up to a good level to help out your other toons with gear.

Gear as requested. Add to this items that you pull from quest chains or have on other toons, ie Margerite's Necklace from Catacombs, Trapblast Goggles from Shan-To-Kor etc. Quest chains are also where you get the majority of Rune Arms(RA) from so do 'em all as you level and play around.

L1
Angers Step boots (also Exp Retreat clicky), Anger's Gift necklace, Spear Bane bracers, Goggles of Insight, Thought Spike RA - all Korthos
Furor's Hide cloak (Garrison's Missing Pack), Bloodknuckles Loincloth Waistband belt (Kobolds' New Ringleader).
Crafted Mithral Full Plate of Stability (requires True Neutral) & Screaming Heavy Repeater. Neither are necessary, armor adds to saves, and with Xbow Fire/Acid will also work well here.
L5
+2 stat items, Int, Con, Dex are most important. Str also to avoid enfeeblement.
Goggles of Time Sensing (ML:5) from Chronoscope (+5 spot & search with handy haste clicky). Could pick up spot/search seperately and hotswap as needed; all I've needed so far to find traps. Didn't use any disable device/open lock gear 'til L11 (Gloves of Gnoll Hide).
VoM (ML:5) (Delera's) ASAP for XP bonus with handy luck bonus too.
Chimera's Breath (ML:5)from Sentinels series is a nice RA which I have used from L5 - L11.
Crafted Mod Fort belt, otherwise L7.
Crafted Mithral Full Plate of Greater Stability. Nice for saves, not essential.
Crafted Screaming Bleeding Heavy Repeater. Again not essential, set end rewards by class and see what elemental damage you pull.
Hellfire Xbow from Chronoscope is also nice (ML:4).
L10
+4 stat items, again Int, Dex, Con. Str is also useful to avoid enfeeblement.
Nightforge Gorget from Relic of a Sovereign Past ML9 Heavy Fort necklace. You lose +2 to hit, but should be ok by now. I aint missing very often.
Gloves of Gnoll Hide (ML:11) are cheap and effective.
Deathblock item, either cloak for hotswap or Silver Flame necklace upgraded in both Bloody Crypt & Shadow Crypt altars.

After that don't know yet but it's not proving difficult to level whatsoever, and it's not particularly gear reliant so you can probably "make do and mend" with what you have into much later levels. Seriously Augmented Flame Turrets are the bees knees, (read business).
Note that the build needs a +2 Dex tome at L7 with 1 level up in Dex for Improved Precise Shot. That said you don't need it until L15 so you could grind out 1750 favor for the free tome.

[Dragavon]

Because I want to focus on traps ;) not relying on gear too much to disable traps :) otherwise I would make a char with 1 lvl rogue and lots of skill points ;) instead of going mech :)

People are trying to tell you you can make a character capable of disabling all the traps in game AND have great DPS at the same time. Any well built rogue have all the skillpoints he will ever need to do all traps, you do not have to limit yourself to only beeing a "trapmonkey".

You get good advice here, now stop beeing stubborn and listen to what people are trying to tell you. If you do not want to listen to people's advice, why do you make a post in the first place? :rolleyes:

[katz]

Because I want to focus on traps ;) not relying on gear too much to disable traps :) otherwise I would make a char with 1 lvl rogue and lots of skill points ;) instead of going mech :)

the problem is... even a mechanic would need to swap gear for traps (unless they wear their trapping gear all the time, which i suppose is viable with, say, a tinker's set from the Manufactury. that's good stuff, there. :D ). when you need to reach the 50s and 60s for the upper end stuff, you can't rely on skill alone... you need the skill boosting gear.

my rogue started as a mechanic. i wanted to be a trapper. unfortunately, i got bored. ONLY being useful for traps, and otherwise being dead-weight is... IMO... boring and makes you feel useless. sure you feel great when there's a nasty trap and you're the one who takes care of it, and you succeed your DD check on a 1... but when you're going thru a quest full of undead or constructs or heavy hitters, and there's no traps... and you have to be there because you want a certain piece of gear... meh, i know i felt awfully useless in those situations, and i hated it.

i swapped my rogue over to assassin, and he's still a perfectly viable epic trapper (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4077499&postcount=48). i only lost a couple of ranks off my top number... and with points left over for all the bluff/balance/jump/intimidate/whatever i could ever want.


IF you are dead set on going mechanic... don't do it halfway. you get light and heavy repeaters, so take feats to enhance your ranged. rapid reload and IPS are absolutely vital. do not neglect them. and don't forget toughness. everyone hates the 200HP rogue who gets one-shot every time you turn around. paralyzing and IPS is amazing in the mid range. paralyzing a whole hallway full of stuff is just nice.

learn how to manage your agro. even with toughness and the requisite HP increasing items, rogues tend to be a bit on the lower end of the HP spectrum. unless you're paralyzing a room full of stuff, don't start shooting stuff before your big beefy guys start whaling on it, or else it will quickly decide it wants rogue for dinner, and there won't be much you can do about it. if you DO gain agro, try to avoid running around like a headless chicken. if you can take a few hits, stand and block and let the beefy guys try to take the agro back, if you *can't* take a few hits, run, but don't run aimlessly. loop around and bring it back to the big guys so they can try to peel it off you as you pass. nothing ****es off a tank more than chasing and missing a mob being kited by someone who can't handle what they agroed.

good luck to you. i hope this info has helped

[Zeronic]

It would just seem that mechanic is useless then, and that is what I wanted to play. Seemed kinda weird to me but it seems you are right. If that is the case, I will stay with artificer all the way. ^^
Thanx for all the help you have given me :)

[voodoogroves]

Not useless ... but definitely not on the top of the ladder.

I still think an arti 6 / rogue 13 / something 1 could be a fun option for you to get the rogue PL.

[Zeronic]

I followed Cooper's advice and made an arti like this build: http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4005961&postcount=4


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

DrJenny Gallifrey
Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
(20 Artificer)
Hit Points: 202
Spell Points: 1128
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 10
Will: 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 8 8
Dexterity 16 19
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 18 24
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 8 8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 5 16
Bluff -1 0
Concentration 6 26
Diplomacy -1 0
Disable Device 8 31
Haggle 3 23
Heal -1 0
Hide 3 5
Intimidate -1 0
Jump -1 10
Listen -1 0
Move Silently 4 6
Open Lock 7 28
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 4 11
Search 8 31
Spot 3 23
Swim -1 0
Tumble 4 16
Use Magic Device 3 23

Level 1 (Artificer)
Feat: (Selected) Augment Summoning
Feat: (Human Bonus) Point Blank Shot
Spell (1): Ablative Armor
Spell (1): Conjure Bolts
Spell (1): Enchant Armor
Spell (1): Enchant Weapons
Spell (1): Grease
Spell (1): Resist Energy


Level 2 (Artificer)
Spell (1): Repair Light Damage


Level 3 (Artificer)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Spell (2): Elemental Weapons


Level 4 (Artificer)
Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Maximize Spell
Spell (2): Insightful Strikes


Level 5 (Artificer)
Spell (2): Fire Trap


Level 6 (Artificer)
Feat: (Selected) Precise Shot
Spell (3): Flame Turret


Level 7 (Artificer)
Spell (3): Blast Rod


Level 8 (Artificer)
Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Empower Spell
Spell (3): Adamantine Weapons


Level 9 (Artificer)
Feat: (Selected) Rapid Shot
Spell (4): Protection From Elements


Level 10 (Artificer)
Spell (4): Lightning Motes


Level 11 (Artificer)
Spell (3): Stoneskin


Level 12 (Artificer)
Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Spell (5): Tenser's Transformation


Level 13 (Artificer)
Spell (5): Radiant Forcefield


Level 14 (Artificer)
Spell (5): Silver Weapons


Level 15 (Artificer)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Precise Shot
Spell (6): Blade Barrier


Level 16 (Artificer)
Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Least Dragonmark of Making
Spell (6): Deadly Weapons


Level 17 (Artificer)
Spell (6): Globe of Invulnerability


Level 18 (Artificer)
Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Making
Spell (6): Reconstruct


Level 19 (Artificer)
Spell (6): Tactical Detonation


Level 20 (Artificer)
Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Greater Dragonmark of Making
Spell (4): Armor of Speed




It looks good to me, I have just a few question marks.
1st of all, it gives me only a handfull of enhancements. Where should I spend the rest on. My dog, improving the disable device? If anyone could broaden the list it would be nice.
2nd. Spells, I just looked trough the spells and I think these spells are alright. If you have a better suggestion after looking at the build, lemme know
3th. Equipment: Cooper listed this.

IL1
Angers Step boots (also Exp Retreat clicky), Anger's Gift necklace, Spear Bane bracers, Goggles of Insight, Thought Spike RA - all Korthos
Furor's Hide cloak (Garrison's Missing Pack), Bloodknuckles Loincloth Waistband belt (Kobolds' New Ringleader).
Crafted Mithral Full Plate of Stability (requires True Neutral) & Screaming Heavy Repeater. Neither are necessary, armor adds to saves, and with Xbow Fire/Acid will also work well here.
L5
+2 stat items, Int, Con, Dex are most important. Str also to avoid enfeeblement.
Goggles of Time Sensing (ML:5) from Chronoscope (+5 spot & search with handy haste clicky). Could pick up spot/search seperately and hotswap as needed; all I've needed so far to find traps. Didn't use any disable device/open lock gear 'til L11 (Gloves of Gnoll Hide).
VoM (ML:5) (Delera's) ASAP for XP bonus with handy luck bonus too.
Chimera's Breath (ML:5)from Sentinels series is a nice RA which I have used from L5 - L11.
Crafted Mod Fort belt, otherwise L7.
Crafted Mithral Full Plate of Greater Stability. Nice for saves, not essential.
Crafted Screaming Bleeding Heavy Repeater. Again not essential, set end rewards by class and see what elemental damage you pull.
Hellfire Xbow from Chronoscope is also nice (ML:4).
L10
+4 stat items, again Int, Dex, Con. Str is also useful to avoid enfeeblement.
Nightforge Gorget from Relic of a Sovereign Past ML9 Heavy Fort necklace. You lose +2 to hit, but should be ok by now. I aint missing very often.
Gloves of Gnoll Hide (ML:11) are cheap and effective.
Deathblock item, either cloak for hotswap or Silver Flame necklace upgraded in both Bloody Crypt & Shadow Crypt altars.



Is this a good list or not?

I hope anyone can gimme feedback on this

With kind regards,

Me

[Norean]

The only Rogue you should be building is a Strength based Assassin who'll also handle traps with the right gear. A Dex based is gimp pure and simple. An Int based, well I aint gonna get into that or this will turn into a whole other discussion, read flame war.

o.o... Str based rogue assassins are a dime a dozen. They are powerful, yes, but mechanics and even acrobats can be good as well. No offense Cooper but just because you can only figure out how to play the easiest rogue to play you shouldn't try to tear down other people's rogues. I've made a mechanic, an acrobat, and an assassin and I've leveled them all to 20. I was able to perform well in end game content with all of them. My rogue mechanic is very powerful. She has high dps, her attacks are more accurate because she doesn't have the twf attack penalty, she can get every trap in the game, and can umd resurrect scrolls, greater tp scrolls, and heal/reconstruct scrolls with a 100% success rate. (Of course resurrect scrolls are expensive so I use raise dead scrolls anyway... Some call me a cheap money grubbing mf.). My assassin had better dps versus enemies with no fort, though she still had decent dps vs fortified enemies, and she could insta kill enemies while sneaking. Her attacks gained the vorpal trait at assassin 3. On a natural 20 her attack would try to kill the enemy I was fighting. Unfortunately it doesn't do the 100 points of damage a weapon with vorpal does when the kill fails. She couldn't get every trap but her gear was lacking at the time... My acrobat was interesting. Acrobats get perma-fom, they are more accurate because they don't have the twf penalty to hit, and they do more damage to enemies that can't be sneak attacked or critically hit. Quarterstaves get double the bonus from power attack, and an acrobat's qs has a perma haste boost that stacks with the rogue haste boost clicky. Acrobat's can also add their dex modifier to their sneak attack damage, but of course assassins do the most sneak attack damage of the three types of rogues.

Here's some thread's on the 3 types of rogues that will help you:

for mechanics: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=266855

for acrobats: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=158960&highlight=big+stick

the guide I always referred to when designing my assassin no longer exists, which is a shame because it was a very good guide, but here you can find a nice thread by a guy who knows about assassins:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=309669

All that said you should do rogue first and tr into an arty because the rogue past life feats are much more useful. Or even better yet you should tr into a monk first and then into an arty because doing so will allow you access to the monk past life feat that gives you an evasion clicky. You can get evasion once per rest for 20 seconds. The rogue past life will grant you increased saves versus traps so you'll completely obsolete rogues. Or better yet become a half elf arty with the rogue dili so you get an enhancement line that further increases your saves versus traps. (Artys suck the most because they suck the least...).

Regarding gear: If you're a mechanic your first life you have a collection of repeaters already for your arty life. Also look at the house c challenge rewards. There's a very nice heavy repeater there. Also there's a ring for specific use by artys. There's also a ring that you can get as soon as level 12 that gives your attacks, melee or ranged, the vorpal trait. For an acrobat you could get the rahl's might from the inspired quarter, the dreamsplitter from the reaver raid in gh, and pretty early you can equip a quarterstaff from the red fens that casts slay living on a vorpal. My level 7 acrobat can use it.

Hope I helped.