Self sufficient

[~Quilny]

I hear all the time how should i make a toon that can solo or split up formt he group and still be ok. there are many ways of doing this Depending on class and race most ways are Expensive.

Cheap ways'
warforge wizard
warforge sorc
warforge arty- i am aware that they can be fleshy and still self repair i recomend warforge ;)
any race Cleric
any race fvs

for melee toons I recomend
half elf Deli Cleric so you can wand and scroll heal
you can also Split class and throw in rogue for UMD so you can wand and scroll heal

these type of builds hurt end game content you will not be doing as much DPS as others if you go these builds but you will live and its great if all you are doing is a TR life meaning once u hit 20 you are goign to turn around and tr again. Also these builds will be able to do enough dps for any content and depending on your skillz and gear you may still do more dps than people with a solid dps build.

builds like these will also get you into good tr groups where you will meet great players that may share there wisdom with you ;).

[Galeria]

half elf Deli Cleric so you can wand and scroll heal


You can also make tasty sandwiches for the party. Unless the party members are warforged.

(Warforged don't eat sandwiches...)

[ArcaneMelee]

While self-healing is a big part of self-sufficiency, any build can become more self-sufficient simply by devoting a few inventory spaces. In many ways, self-sufficiency is more a state of mind than a state of build.

[Meetch1972]

If my main doesn't spend money on crafting ingredients, he tends to accumulate significant amounts of cash over time. By the mid levels there's no excuse not to carry hit points in a bottle if you have little or no self-healing ability in your build.

If I don't have spells to heal meself, then as it becomes affordable I always carry a stack of repair/cure pots for when I need to split off from the group. If I'm on a non "self-healing" character and someone's throwing me (or the group) a heal or repair while we're together, whatever I'm doing is done quicker as I don't have to stop/run/shed aggro to quaff potions, but it's not absolutely necessary. Sometimes I'll burn through such a stack in a few sessions, other times it takes weeks or more depending on the level of hjealz from others.

Wands and scrolls are good too, if you have the ability to use them. They're even cheaper in the overall scheme of things.

Plus having suitable DR when applicable, resistance on items or in potions, and protection clickies/pots goes a long way.

[JollySwagMan]

You can also make tasty sandwiches for the party. Unless the party members are warforged.

(Warforged don't eat sandwiches...)

hehehe

[morticianjohn]

A pure fighter (maybe even monk or wiz) could probably go the halfling dragonmarked route. It is a weaker version of self healing than those you've brought up but IMO deserves a mention.

Also add any race bard.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "these builds hurt end game in DPS". I think I disagree with that.

[moops]

Self sufficient to me means carrying at least some HP pots to heal yourself -and playing accordingly to your builds weakness and Strengths--ie if you are a Low AC character --wait for crowd control or someone with higher AC/Healing capabilities to get aggro. Carry remove curse, lesser restore, and poison pots. Also resist pots--20's can be bought in the 12.

If you are a Sorc/Rogue of any race have some UMD--I can't believe the amount of lvl 20 Sorcs and Rogues I meet with no UMD. We recently did a HOX without Divines, just sorcs and rogues healing in the center--it was much better than waiting around an hour--and this is the basis of SS groups of any lvls, why wait? Just play.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I may have misunderstood what you meant in one spot...

but.. all of the builds yo mention sacrifice nothing to be self sufficient.

Their DPS can still be top of the line at end game. (although none of them are melee builds....except the Half Elfs)



On a personal note, I really need to give Half Elves more respect and make a few myself.
I still hate the way they look but I'm getting used to them. :eek:


One of the easiest ways to be somewhat self sufficient is simply to buy potions!
10 of the non healing ones will work fine in most dungeons.
Although some dungeons really need resists and protects, those are actually kinda rare.
A few dungeons have casters that spam certain spells that you will want to have more pots for though.

Try to keep a stack of 100 cure pots on you if you can afford it.



I don't recommend soloing on something like Ftr or Brb though. That is very expensive.
grouping is cheaper. Even if you have no healer at al in the group, you have other people to get agro at least.....if not to help out in other ways too.



There are more advanced builds with UMD. But for a beginner, I wouldn't worry about it unless you are a Rogue, Bard, Arty. (you can always do a LR/GR later when you really know what you want, and how to get it)


Honestly, its a simple mindset.
Bring your own pots.
don't beg from others.
try to learn how to not get beat up all the time. (your wallet is a good incentive to learn damage mitigation)

[TeacherSyn]

Certain builds can have more inherent self-sufficiency. But as others said, how are you defining "self-sufficiency?" How you define it depends on the quest and its challenges, more often than not.

Let me use my L20 Light Monk to help here as an example, since I just completed an adventure just to test this very thing. It was the level 20 quest, "The Dreaming Dark." I took my Monk in completely alone with about 48 Cure Serious Potions on Casual difficulty. She has a Holy Burst ring from Tower of Despair and wears it with a Shintao Cord for continuous Good DR bypass as well as the Shintao Monk III ability to bypass Silver.

She is able to survive the attacks from various Dream monsters (ghosts, wraiths, spiders). The most challenging problem are the ability-draining curses from the wraiths. For anyone other than a Cleric or Favored Soul, they would need Lesser Restoration potions to survive before the stacking ability stat damage would eventually make them Helpless. Light Monks can use the ki-powered spell-like ability "Difficulty at the Beginning" that emulates Lesser Restoration. This is advantageous in that Syncletica can use it once every 15 seconds and do so indefinitely as long as she has 20 ki points available. Since there is plenty to kill to generate ki and Syncletica's capstone and Greater Water Stance regenerate ki as well, there is little problem in relieving stat damage.

The Light Monk's Healing Ki spell-like ability (supplemented by the Vampiric Stonedust Wraps from the Lordsmarch quests) also aid in self-healing. Syncletica never needed to use a single healing potion thanks to the Fists of Light healing shield curse and Healing Ki finishing moves.

The final battle with the Devourer of Dreams is challenging because of the Devourer's continuous attempts to stun you as well as give stat damage that will eventually make you Helpless. Further, there is his Nightmare minion that will also try to tear you apart with stat damage and stuns when it appears. Complicating this is that the Devourer's DR is only fully bypassed with Crystal+Good. Syncletica hasn't yet ventured through the Cannith quests to get the Alchemical Handwraps to bind Crystal bypassing to them, so Silver+Good is the best she has.

For crowd control, Syncletica brought in a Shard of Xoriat that spawned a Render, which kept the Nightmare busy while Syncletica dealt with the Devourer. After Syncletica got stunned once, I remembered to use the finishing move Grasp the Earth Dragon, which makes Syncletica immune for stuns for 1 minute (a popular tactic also used in parties in the Tower of Despair raid). Syncletica went into Greater Earth Stance for better critical hits and pounded away, periodically withdrawing to use Difficulty at the Beginning to remove stat damage as well as Grasp the Earth Dragon for anti-stunning.

In a few minutes, the Devourer was defeated. Even the Render survived.

Mind you, this was a L20 end fight on Casual, but it was still L20. This quest is like "The Tide Turns" in that it is a raid-like adventure and should never be underestimated.

Now, other classes have other abilities that could do the same, better or worse than my Light Monk. It's all in the way you play and manage resources and mobs.

[Llewndyn]

I hear all the time how should i make a toon that can solo or split up formt he group and still be ok. there are many ways of doing this Depending on class and race most ways are Expensive.

Cheap ways'
warforge wizard
warforge sorc
warforge arty- i am aware that they can be fleshy and still self repair i recomend warforge ;)
any race Cleric
any race fvs

for melee toons I recomend
half elf Deli Cleric so you can wand and scroll heal
you can also Split class and throw in rogue for UMD so you can wand and scroll heal

these type of builds hurt end game content you will not be doing as much DPS as others if you go these builds but you will live and its great if all you are doing is a TR life meaning once u hit 20 you are goign to turn around and tr again. Also these builds will be able to do enough dps for any content and depending on your skillz and gear you may still do more dps than people with a solid dps build.

builds like these will also get you into good tr groups where you will meet great players that may share there wisdom with you ;).

WF Bard - Most self sufficient toon I have ever made (and I have played a cleric/FVS) - hi UMD means not only does my SP bar last longer if I'm not wasting time healing and using it all for CC, but that I can carry a few stacks of repair scrolls and by level 15/16 I can hit on all of my res scrolls

WF Monk - The WHoleness of body, if you can take a second free from murdering everything that dares to move in your commanding presence, heals for a ton (tonne if you're british, Megakilo if you are on Dewey Decimal system or whatever) more than any shrine and if you use vampiric stonedust wraps and greater wind stance you can keep yourself topped off for the most part

[~Quilny]

I may have misunderstood what you meant in one spot...

but.. all of the builds yo mention sacrifice nothing to be self sufficient.

Their DPS can still be top of the line at end game. (although none of them are melee builds....except the Half Elfs)



On a personal note, I really need to give Half Elves more respect and make a few myself.
I still hate the way they look but I'm getting used to them. :eek:


One of the easiest ways to be somewhat self sufficient is simply to buy potions!
10 of the non healing ones will work fine in most dungeons.
Although some dungeons really need resists and protects, those are actually kinda rare.
A few dungeons have casters that spam certain spells that you will want to have more pots for though.

Try to keep a stack of 100 cure pots on you if you can afford it.



I don't recommend soloing on something like Ftr or Brb though. That is very expensive.
grouping is cheaper. Even if you have no healer at al in the group, you have other people to get agro at least.....if not to help out in other ways too.



There are more advanced builds with UMD. But for a beginner, I wouldn't worry about it unless you are a Rogue, Bard, Arty. (you can always do a LR/GR later when you really know what you want, and how to get it)


Honestly, its a simple mindset.
Bring your own pots.
don't beg from others.
try to learn how to not get beat up all the time. (your wallet is a good incentive to learn damage mitigation)


I disagree you do suffer a little bit and i will tell you why
Barbarian would be best example
best barbarian for dps would be Half orc max str build
if you go half elf for scroll and wands u loose enhancement str and max str
also you cant wand or scroll when raged. best thing about scroll heal is it takes away your fatigue though ;)
I did this build and loved and hated it.

the half elf barbarian is decent for soloing / just TR life I do not recomend it for Final life.
worked greta for me took me 14 days to get back to level 20 as a half elf barbarian.
Ddo search massivheals if you doubt me:D

i personaly dont think its a huge achievement but other people dont believe me most of it was in a group. The thing is with a solo buidl you can post for a quest but instead of waiting for gorup to fill u can just take off. You always want other people in party because it makes the quest go Faster. sometimes waiting for a party takes longer than just soloing the quest. Anyways my advice take it or leave it just letting peeps know pros and cons.

[zex95966]

I agree with OP tbh.

Especially when I see people saying that your wallet is a good reason to learn self-sufficiency. I bought 40 heal pots because my guild was telling me to and I trusted them. It cost me about half my money and I still haven't made it all back.
Even wands are to expensive to use for me, oh I know I'm gonna hear "look up XXX'S guide to making money." but I keep the stuff that is valuable (light lighting split wood) because I plan to use it as well. I mean what's the point in selling it now when I will have to buy it later, likely at a higher price?

Raids are different though, they are rare enough that I can buy whatever I need and make up for it in three days time.
For me, my wallet has limited my self sufficiency to hirelings and SP if my class happens to have it.

I stay the hell away from pots and wands, unless of course a chest happens to drop em, and even then, I save them for important things like raids.

[danotmano1998]

Self sufficient just means that you are able to take care of yourself mostly.

To me, that means you brought some resists, potions, wands, scrolls, or whatever you need to bring with you to keep fighting.

Once your characters reach above 10th level, plat starts flowing like water and even though I keep every character fully stocked, I still make more plat than I spend. That gets even more skewed at or near cap.

To folks that can't make the plat to keep their consumables up and still maintain a healthy stockpile, I say that you simply haven't reached the tipping point on the scales of balance yet. Keep plugging away and before you know it, you'll have more platinum than you can spend.

[Kmnh]

"self-sufficient" means you can kill 3 or 4 relatively quickly mobs by yourself without dying and you know how to position yourself so you don't get overwhelmed. You can do that on a barbarian or fighter, if you know what you are trying to do.

There are many dex builds and divines who can survive abuse, but can't really kill the mobs. That's fine for "byoh", but I wouldn't call these self-sufficent. If you are playing one, the best way to be useful in a zerging party is to pick up he trash melees and kite them around while the heavier DPS kills the casters and archers first, or herding mobs together so the casters can nuke. Support roles can be fun :)