Let's build a FvS tank!

[fedechicco]

Hello everybody!

I'm half way to TRing again my toon, Snemeis, and I want to understand what to do next with him.
My 2nd life was a high AC turtle intimitank with no-fail intimidation and no threat generation whatsoever. On I-don't-remember-which-update it got nerfed so bad I had to convert it to an average DPS.

However, we understood that now tank = threat, so what I'm trying to build here is something that _can_ turtle up AND hit the raid-boss at the same time.
I recently saw an half-elf FvS tanking Sully on VoD hard and with her DoT she almost brought him down by herself, which was kinda astonishing, so this is the way I'd like it to be this time: FvS DoT turtle tank.

I'm a noob in FvS and I'm no expert in hate-tanking either, therefore I'd appreciate your (you all) support on this build.

Possibilities:
a. 36pt build
b. Past lifes (Ranger, Fighter, Rogue)

Constraints:
1. FvS as main class
2. Must be a real good healbot when tanking is not needed
3. Must be good enough to tank VoD hard and ToD norm _without_ proper buffing
4. Must be able to self heal while tanking
5. Cannot be WF nor Half-Elf (simply because I don't want to buy those races)

Optionals that I'd like:
a. Should be able to switch to an offensive role when I'm soloing

"Offensive role" could be a DPS or a pure offensive divine caster (BB and such), I don't care which, I played them both and I like swinging greatswords like jumping around a blade barrier.

The thing I propose (just as a starting point) is a DR human with max HP and average SP, but maxed light damage to use effectively the DoT.

Please post your ideas, any suggestion will be welcome.

[fedechicco]

This is the post in which I'll put the build as it takes shape.

For now here is my starting point:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
(20 Favored Soul)
Hit Points: 454
Spell Points: 2067
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 23
Reflex: 12
Will: 17

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 8 10 10
Dexterity 8 10 10
Constitution 18 25 26
Intelligence 8 10 10
Wisdom 12 14 14
Charisma 18 20 26

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance -1 5.5 5.5
Bluff 4 8 8
Concentration 8 31 31
Diplomacy 4 8 10
Disable Device n/a n/a n/a
Haggle 4 8 8
Heal 1 2 4
Hide -1 0 0
Intimidate 4 8 8
Jump 1 23 23
Listen 1 2 2
Move Silently -1 0 0
Open Lock n/a n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair -1 0 0
Search -1 0 0
Spot 1 2 2
Swim -1 0 0
Tumble 0 1 1
Use Magic Device n/a n/a n/a

{\b {\ul Notable Equipment }} \par Supreme Tyrant Green Steel Weave Cloak of Positive \par Bracers of the Glacier \par Gloves of the Glacier \par Lorikk's Champion \par Lorrik's Necklace \par Charismatic Ring \par Health Belt \par \par Level 1 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Human Bonus) Empower Spell
Feat: (Deity) Favored by the Sovereign Host
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
Enhancement: Favored Soul Smiting I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion I


Level 2 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Enhancement: Favored Soul Improved Empowering I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Charisma I


Level 3 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Smiting I


Level 4 (Favored Soul)
Ability Raise: CON
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 5 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Fire


Level 6 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty (Favored Soul)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Improved Empowering II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Smiting II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness I


Level 7 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Smiting II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Incredible Smiting I


Level 8 (Favored Soul)
Ability Raise: CON
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Enhancement: Favored Soul Smiting III
Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion II


Level 9 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery
Enhancement: Favored Soul Angel of Vengeance I


Level 10 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Sonic
Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion III


Level 11 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Smiting III


Level 12 (Favored Soul)
Ability Raise: CON
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Enhancement: Favored Soul Angel of Vengeance II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Charisma II


Level 13 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 14 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 15 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Acid


Level 16 (Favored Soul)
Ability Raise: CON
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 17 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 18 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 20 (Favored Soul)
Ability Raise: CON
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Deity) Favored Soul Damage Reduction: Silver
Enhancement: Favored Soul Ascendency: Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Incredible Smiting II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Smiting IV
Enhancement: Favored Soul Charisma III
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness III
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness IV

[Feithlin]

I have no FvS, so maybe I missed something, but I don't see why so much Cha, since you don't plan to use intimidate. The additional sp gained seem rather expensive.
The main benefit of going human in your case would be for healing amp., which you didn't take. Since you will easily be able to self heal even without racial healing amp., maybe you could take a more sturdy race, like dwarf. Going dwarf would give you more con and more racial toughness enh.
Personnaly, I would put more wis and less cha. Even if you will tank mainly with DP, being able to land decent BB is nice for leveling.
You could also go WF with level up in Str, which would allow to cumulate damage from your greatsword to your DP when blocking isn't really needed.

[Memek]

Dotting i dont think you could hold aggro even halfway well.
If you're swinging a weapon, you could (certainly, with gear) hold aggro, but you woulnt have much better defenses than most other dudes. So i dont see the point there.

Basically, if you give a threat tank a long time to build up aggro, you might as well hero it. And noone wants that. Specifically, if in VoD you want several seconds every time he teleports and need to kill all those nasty Devils, you might as well have no tank at all.

No, i dont see how this would work without significant build-up-time which isnt acceptable for tanks anymore. It used to be when the AC and DR were esoteric concepts but by now any dude with hate gear can hold aggro better than you and most players have realized that the damage mitigation is quite similar (and some might have realized that it's better to just get it over with and get SERIOUS about DPSing it down (yes, you'll take aggro unless if you have a proper tank on the other side) instead of getting yourself beaten up by nasty Devils for a couple of minutes to give the "tank" his spot in the sun).

No, build doesnt ring a bell. Seems to suck.

[fedechicco]

No, i dont see how this would work without significant build-up-time which isnt acceptable for tanks anymore. It used to be when the AC and DR were esoteric concepts but by now any dude with hate gear can hold aggro better than you and most players have realized that the damage mitigation is quite similar (and some might have realized that it's better to just get it over with and get SERIOUS about DPSing it down (yes, you'll take aggro unless if you have a proper tank on the other side) instead of getting yourself beaten up by nasty Devils for a couple of minutes to give the "tank" his spot in the sun).

What you're saying is that I need to grab the aggro fast, and that's not happening with DoT alone. It's prolly a good point.

Therefore with the proper STR and the proper hate gear I could start it DPSing AND DoTing, and then turtle up and DoTing alone.
Am I catching your point?

[mute_mayhem]

I had a FvS DoT tank that I LR'ed from a WF LoB because I was bored swinging a greatsword for terrible dps. It sounds great in theory, but in practice it doesn't bring anything to the table that's better than a traditional tank.

As the poster above me mentioned, it can be difficult establishing aggro, seeing as it takes a minimum of 30 seconds to get a triple stack of divine punishment. Holding aggro once you get it is actually fairly easy, especially if you have anathema and an eardweller/brilliance clickies. You're also pretty easy to keep up healing wise considering how much damage you mitigate through DR and shield mastery.

That said, it can work if there's not a decent meatbag in the party willing to tank. I ended up tanking at least 3 VoD runs where the designated tank was either too squishy or couldn't hold aggro over my divine punishment.

Basically, my build ended up becoming an indestructible healbot that could tank if the situation demanded it. If that's the kind of thing you're going for, your build should be fine, but I just don't see any groups advertising for a FvS DoT tank.

[fedechicco]

As the poster above me mentioned, it can be difficult establishing aggro, seeing as it takes a minimum of 30 seconds to get a triple stack of divine punishment. Holding aggro once you get it is actually fairly easy, especially if you have anathema and an eardweller/brilliance clickies. You're also pretty easy to keep up healing wise considering how much damage you mitigate through DR and shield mastery.

Again, you're saying that if I could S&B some decent (not uber) damage with the proper hate generation gear AND DoT at the same time it won't be hard to mantain the aggro?

How about a S&B h-orc with levik gear, less CHA and more STR and hate generation enhancements?
Tomorrow i'll post a second proposition in that direction.

[Memek]

What you're saying is that I need to grab the aggro fast, and that's not happening with DoT alone. It's prolly a good point.

Therefore with the proper STR and the proper hate gear I could start it DPSing AND DoTing, and then turtle up and DoTing alone.
Am I catching your point?
I think you're catching the point, but you are misinterpreting things: You CANT turtle up, pretty much ever. You must keep DPSing. DoTTing alone will not hold aggro, unless there is some item that gives some serious amp (i know there is a Ring with +15% spell hate but as far as i kno thats as far as it goes).
Now, dont get me wrong, i do think you can hold aggro reliably if you keep at it but you must keep pushing (that is DoT + melee). And then, what kind of defense do you really have over a proper tank?

Grabbing aggro fast, yes, thats another point. I'd expect that from a "proper tank", to hold aggro from first touch, but not everyone can do so. But if you cant hold your aggro, it matters not, you cant tank.

[sirgog]

Search for my 'Soul Survivor' build - I've tanked Normal Horoth and pre-U12 Elite Suulomades with it.

Still, with the changes to raid boss melee damage output, I no longer consider DR 15 to be the top-notch damage mitigation that it used to be. I've respecced mine a moderate amount.

[fedechicco]

i know there is a Ring with +15% spell hate but as far as i kno thats as far as it goes

+15% spell hate on a ring? Please link a page to it, I never heard of it.

I can understand you saying that you can't grab aggro fast with spells, but I don't know about holding it: that's what every caster does if he's not careful!
Did somebody here ever tried some maxed-out FvS DoTs? They hit pretty hard if what they told me is true.

If you're positive about the impossibility to mantain aggro with a FvS while turtleing-up and casting spells every now and then, well you're right when you say this build won't work with hate alone.

Maybe a proper intimidation would balance things off, since on successful intimidation you regain your place on top of the hate list.

[sirgog]

+15% spell hate on a ring? Please link a page to it, I never heard of it.

I can understand you saying that you can't grab aggro fast with spells, but I don't know about holding it: that's what every caster does if he's not careful!
Did somebody here ever tried some maxed-out FvS DoTs? They hit pretty hard if what they told me is true.

If you're positive about the impossibility to mantain aggro with a FvS while turtleing-up and casting spells every now and then, well you're right when you say this build won't work with hate alone.

Maybe a proper intimidation would balance things off, since on successful intimidation you regain your place on top of the hate list.

Aggro isn't your problem on a FvS tank, assuming you are always attacking. The issue that you just do not have the damage mitigation to lower boss damage enough. Before Divine Punishment I wasn't losing aggro when focusing on having it, DP just makes it easier to maintain aggro.

The Lord of Blades hits for ~100 on Norm and ~170 on Epic. As a FvS using a two-hander you take 85 and 155 respectively. Torc and Conc-Opp do not let you heal that. OTOH, a Stalwart takes ~70 and ~110 respectively. Combine that with the bigger health pool of the Stalwart, and the Stalwart having the option for an AC that makes trash struggle to hit them on all difficulties and bosses miss some of the time on non-epic, and you'll see a huge difference.

[fedechicco]

Aggro isn't your problem on a FvS tank, assuming you are always attacking.

Nah, that wasn't the question. The question was: are you sure there is no possibility to mantain aggro with spells _while_ turtleing up?
I read your posts on the LoB thread, and I understand that he's real mean (though I never had the pleasure to meet him...), but I'm not trying to tank everything in every situation: I think I can bare the shame of telling people that I won't tank elite horoth, and that they have to take a real tank for that.

I did try the stalwart and I liked it very much, but I'm not doing a fighter again. My purpose is: I wanna do a FvS, adding some spice to it in the tanking way.

Assuming that's possible, and I understand that's possibly not true.

[Mrmorphling]

With the necessary build up time (triple stack) with Anathema (http://ddowiki.com/page/Anathema) providing +25% aggro and eardweller (http://ddowiki.com/page/Xachosian_Eardweller) for the first 3 minutes and then brilliance clicky you can definitely keep aggro vs non uber melee (that 60+STR eSos barb might be a problem, btu trust me it's a problem for many traditional tanks too if he goes full DPS after 30secs).

Keeping up triple stack (mind the timing as you can' refresh each cooldown unless you want to squander SP) plus self healing is still quite taxing on mana pool as you can't rely on scrolls under anything hitting more than 60ish (vast majority of tankable bosses) as you risk failing conc check.

At the end you are a light/heal specced FvS with shield mastery, you'll be good at soloing and you can act as tank with moderate geared groups in normal environment.

I would definitely redo some of your starting stats:
- CHA = 11 as 11+2(tome)+6(item) = 19, enough to cast your spells, if you are concerned by UMD you can start with 12 but not more and up WIS to be able to 'recycle' as DC based caster :)

[mute_mayhem]

+15% spell hate on a ring? Please link a page to it, I never heard of it.

I can understand you saying that you can't grab aggro fast with spells, but I don't know about holding it: that's what every caster does if he's not careful!
Did somebody here ever tried some maxed-out FvS DoTs? They hit pretty hard if what they told me is true.

If you're positive about the impossibility to mantain aggro with a FvS while turtleing-up and casting spells every now and then, well you're right when you say this build won't work with hate alone.

Maybe a proper intimidation would balance things off, since on successful intimidation you regain your place on top of the hate list.

Anathema is the ring everyone here is referring to: http://itemwiki.cubicleninja.com/Items/ItemDetails.aspx?itemID=782

It is possible to hold aggro just shield blocking, but it depends on the group. If you have high damage/threat melees in the group that can't or won't manage their aggro properly, you'll have a difficult time holding aggro without swinging a weapon.

If you can get a high enough intim score, that might be enough to maintain aggro, but I've never tried.

[AdamSmith]

I like my Dwarf more than your Human.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Dwarf Male
(20 Favored Soul)
Hit Points: 462
Spell Points: 1980
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 21
Reflex: 11
Will: 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 10 10
Dexterity 8 8
Constitution 20 29
Intelligence 12 12
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 14 20

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance -1 10
Bluff 2 5
Concentration 9 32
Diplomacy 2 7
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 2 5
Heal -1 1
Hide -1 -1
Intimidate 2 5
Jump 4 10
Listen -1 -1
Move Silently -1 -1
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 1
Search 1 3
Spot -1 -1
Swim 0 0
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device 4 16

Level 1 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Deity) Favored by the Sovereign Host
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Spell (1): Nightshield
Spell (1): Remove Fear


Level 2 (Favored Soul)
Spell (1): Nimbus of Light


Level 3 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Spell (1): Obscuring Mist


Level 4 (Favored Soul)
Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds


Level 5 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Fire
Spell (2): Resist Energy


Level 6 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Spell (3): Searing Light


Level 7 (Favored Soul)
Spell (2): Remove Paralysis
Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds


Level 8 (Favored Soul)
Spell (4): Freedom of Movement


Level 9 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Spell (2): Bull's Strength
Spell (3): Mass Aid
Spell (4): Death Ward, later swap to Recitation


Level 10 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Electricity
Spell (5): Raise Dead, later swap to True Seeing


Level 11 (Favored Soul)
Spell (3): Magic Circle Against Evil
Spell (4): Divine Power
Spell (5): Divine Punishment


Level 12 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery
Spell (6): Blade Barrier


Level 13 (Favored Soul)
Spell (6): Heal
Spell (5): Mass Cure Light Wounds
Spell (4): Restoration, later swap to Panacea


Level 14 (Favored Soul)
Spell (7): Mass Protection From Elements


Level 15 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Sonic
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery
Spell (5): Break Enchantment
Spell (6): Mass Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (7): Greater Restoration


Level 16 (Favored Soul)
Spell (8): Mass Death Ward


Level 17 (Favored Soul)
Spell (7): Mass Spell Resistance
Spell (8): Death Pact


Level 18 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Spell (9): Mass Heal


Level 19 (Favored Soul)
Spell (8): Symbol of Death
Spell (9): True Resurrection


Level 20 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Deity) Favored Soul Damage Reduction: Cold Iron
Spell (9): Energy Drain
Enhancement: Favored Soul Ascendency: Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Dwarven Shield Mastery I
Enhancement: Dwarven Shield Mastery II
Enhancement: Dwarven Shield Mastery III
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty (Favored Soul)
Enhancement: Favored Soul Angel of Vengeance I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Angel of Vengeance II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness IV
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Smiting I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Smiting II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Smiting III
Enhancement: Favored Soul Smiting IV
Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic III
Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion III
Enhancement: Favored Soul Charisma I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Charisma II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness III
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness IV
Enhancement: Favored Soul Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Wand and Scroll Mastery II

[Darknark]

Hello everybody!


However, we understood that now tank = threat, so what I'm trying to build here is something that _can_ turtle up AND hit the raid-boss at the same time

This (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=344390&highlight=healings+easy) build was made by a guildy of mine, he has used it to solo: ToD (normal) (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=326633), Epic DQ2 (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=344123), Elite Vod (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=323576), normal Vod at level (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=321472)... etc.. all without using SP pots.
For a human, take another toughness. You lose ~10% (well actually a bit more..) healing amp and gain 22hp.

[XavierElanor]

I'm testing an intim-caster FvS atm. Broke his cherry in hard VoD pug with no hitch. Was rather amused when I was tanking and dropping party heals at the end. How often does that happen? heh. Burned alot of SP on self healing mostly because I didn't know the healers and didn't trust them, but still had enough which was my biggest concern as this was the first "real" boss he tanked. I'm not counting Stormreaver or Lailat as they're not that tough and give free SP. My next test will be with a traditional tank trying to steal aggro on Sully and move up to Horoth without hate tank, then with hate tank and onwards, maybe Abishai next.

Yes, he does have an Anathema, if memory serves one of the ToD sets gives a spell hate bonus, but I'm unsure if I'll be able to use it. He's rather low on gear atm but he's a test build, not final so thats ok. Final build's intim with ideal gear will be self buffed in the mid to high 70s depending on how much cha I can squeeze into it. More depending on if I can find anymore stacking intim sources. My goal atm is 80 as thats the highest no-fail I've seen. Intim is new to me, so not really sure where I stand, nor really interested in other's builds either, as I derive most of my fun from testing and learning things myself. I really hated losing the FvS DR which is one of the things that helped form the initial idea, but I didn't see a way around getting intim. It does take extra time to build up which is a draw back but overall its got some nice versatility that I like.

Its a very intensive character to play as you're juggling many timers including curse pots vs Sully and I did drop timer on DP 3-4 times. Sully teleporting was not an issue as he still had the DoT on him and would come after me, intiming kept him there. I look forward to seeing how it compares with a traditional tank though.

Fedechicco, send me a PM if you want to talk more on the subject. I'd love to get the opinions of someone else who wants to make this work opposed to people who think it can't.

[fedechicco]

XavierElanor, Darknark, AdamSmith, thx for partecipating, I was almost losing hope that such a build was possible.
I'm at work atm, i'll have a closer look to your proposed builds in the weekend.

I'd like to pose you a question though: did you try intimidating too? How's your intimidation working, if you have it?

Intimidation is not a class skill, do you think it's worth to lose the 10DR for splashing 1 lvl of rogue/pally/ftr?
I don't think so, but it's gonna be a gimp intimidation without it.

[FuzzyDuck81]

With the forthcoming changes to how enhancements work (admittedly still a little way off) a dwarven defender FvS could presumably be a possibility, and would be a little crazy in terms of survivability.

[fedechicco]

With the forthcoming changes to how enhancements work (admittedly still a little way off) a dwarven defender FvS could presumably be a possibility, and would be a little crazy in terms of survivability.

Which forthcoming changes? Pls link us something to read more about them.

[FuzzyDuck81]

In the official "lets talk..." threads..

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=357100 over 50 pages so far though so bit of a read.. still looks like some interesting stuff will be coming

[XavierElanor]

Yep, I'm hoping DD will work well with the ideas I have for the FvT end build.

[fedechicco]

The new dwarven PrE will be something we could effectively use to build odd-tanks.

I'll come back with a new build when we know something more about it, it'll probably be next moth.

I don't feel allright losing the DR to take a level of pally/fighter/rog just to get intimidation, so the build will probably have a very low intimidation skill...

That means i'll have to work more on DoT, as some of the builds you guys posted do.

Feel free to submit builds (+ gear), as the gear will make the difference between a normal FvS and this tank.

[korsat]

I think this could work, you need at least the anathema ring, the torc of prince rayum and an epic shield(kundarak is the best) with 12dr.
I think you will be able to tank suulo on normal without heals just keeping dots on him, for horo normal+ or suulo hard+ you will need another healer to heal you while you keep dots up.
I can say that because I do so on my wizard...

If we will really have defender enhancments for free on dwarf and wf then tank with casters will be much more efficient and a lot of fun!

Btw remember that some overgeared toon with eclaw set and such can dps more than you with dots...

[XavierElanor]

I cannot see the hate from Anathema alone being enough to hold aggro in other than ideal situations which is why I went with intim. IF DD gives enough bonuses to intim, and its got to make up a lot, I'll consider making a pure build if not I'm sticking with the splash as I'd also lose 2 feats without it.

[korsat]

I cannot see the hate from Anathema alone being enough to hold aggro in other than ideal situations which is why I went with intim. IF DD gives enough bonuses to intim, and its got to make up a lot, I'll consider making a pure build if not I'm sticking with the splash as I'd also lose 2 feats without it.

dps will hold aggro...400 damage/2sec, over 1000 on crit. This is boosted +25%
but yes... being able to keep aggro with intimidate would be awesome if you can reach the dc

[DaDolo]

I have seen a FVS tank Epic Lord of Blades, Elite Tower of Despair, Elite Vision of Destruction, and multiple other raids/quests. Capstone heal+healing amp+con opp+Torc+HP= Very survivable and easy tank that can pretty much self heal through those raids. Look up Lotusfly, he tanked elob multiple times. Healings, Zoesha, and Myriad have done similiar. All on Cannith

[FooWonk]

° Starting with 11 CHA is enough for favored soul...(21 CHA with +2 tome, +6 item, +2 capstone)

° Shield Mastery is great. Improved Shield Mastery is okay. I'm not going to bother with the latter on a FvS.

° Get Shield Mastery early.

° Use the best shields available for shield mastery & blocking DR:
—> Level 1-6: Battered Phiarlan Shield
—> Level 7-13: +5 Master Craftsmanship Mithral Heavy with Guild Slot
—> Level 14+: Madstone or Levik's

° Craft a conc-opp long sword and accessory!

° Let's get Torcs for Snemeis and Arrwn!

° Demonic Shield is awesome (available on Cavalry Plate or Bracers of the Demon Consort).

° Here is how I establish aggro with Arrwn:
—> activate superior radiance
—> enable auto-attack
—> cast max-power divine punishment
—> cast max-power holy smite
—> cast max-power searing light
—> cast max-power nimbus of light

° Maintaining aggro while shield blocking:
—> turn off auto-attack
—> keep divine punishment stacked (be certain of facing before casting)
—> keep your shoulder cannon out
—> wear a positive guard item (e.g., http://goo.gl/k6t1P)
—> get another AoV's crown
—> repeat steps in establishing aggro as necessary

° Use hate gear for +35% spell hate & +45% melee hate:
—> +25% from Anathema (http://ddowiki.com/page/Anathema)
—> +20% from Levik's Defender 2 piece
—> +15% from Tier 1 Brigand Cutlas (http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Brigand%27s_Cutlass_(Tier_1))
—> +10% from Draconic Ring & Necklace

High DC isn't absolutely essential to establishing aggro with FvS spells (holy smite has a will save for 1/2 damage). I'd still suggest high wisdom just for the ease of soloing with blade barrier kiting. Heighten is the single best feat for a FvS to take for increasing DC's. I'd suggest fitting it in if you're go the wisdom route.

[fedechicco]

—> Level 14+: Madstone or Levik's

(...)

° Craft a conc-opp long sword and accessory!

° Let's get Torcs for Snemeis and Arrwn!


Hey man!
Levik's a towershield, isn't it better to go lorrik? I have the levik, but I won't be proficient in that case...

Torcs all the way! I'm slowing crawling my way to the 20th run to get it in the reward, i do hope i'll get it...
We gotta run that raid more often, I agree...

Otherwise, conc-opp on the sword? Wouldn't it be better to have a plain old min2 sword and some conc-opp goggles? I really don't know, my STR is going to be dump anyway, why even bother hitting something?

And again: I don't know if i'd prefer to go enough CHA, max CON and rest in STR to DPS when I solo.
This way I could get aggro better maybe.

Still the other option is offensive caster: enough CHA, max WIS and rest in CON, maybe less HP but I could cast like a real FvS instead of swinging like a mediocre DPS.

[good_ole_corwin]

Levik's a towershield, isn't it better to go lorrik? I have the levik, but I won't be proficient in that case...

-6 to hit when youre not proficient. If youre just gonna turtle up and cast, you dont care about attack bonus. On the other hand you get 5 percentage points more dmg absorption from shield mastery and a 1% chance of getting a heal everytime youre hit with a Levik, Lorrik gives you nothing besides being a shield.


Otherwise, conc-opp on the sword? Wouldn't it be better to have a plain old min2 sword and some conc-opp goggles? I really don't know, my STR is going to be dump anyway, why even bother hitting something?

Weapons can have healing amp.

[FooWonk]

Hey man!
Levik's a towershield, isn't it better to go lorrik? I have the levik, but I won't be proficient in that case...

Levik's provides free heals & 5% damage absorption.

If you want to actually hit things while using a tower shield, Madstone Shield is the way to go. It's 3 less DR than Lorrik's, but you should get that back in from the 5% damage absorption.



Otherwise, conc-opp on the sword? Wouldn't it be better to have a plain old min2 sword and some conc-opp goggles? I really don't know, my STR is going to be dump anyway, why even bother hitting something?

Arrwn uses the scimitar equivalent of http://goo.gl/QYS7a with Madstone Shield. With weapon and accessory, SP recovery is much faster than with accessory alone.

Also with the crown, that conc-opp isn't terrible DPS. A Mournlode longsword would be a better option for DPS'ing than Min2.



And again: I don't know if i'd prefer to go enough CHA, max CON and rest in STR to DPS when I solo.
This way I could get aggro better maybe.

Still the other option is offensive caster: enough CHA, max WIS and rest in CON, maybe less HP but I could cast like a real FvS instead of swinging like a mediocre DPS.

Arrwn's first life was as favored soul with 36 STR. After playing a real melee (Nijasapayi), I immediately LR'ed Arrwn to max WIS. Melee damage plummeted but overall awesome went through the roof.

Arrwn still can buff to-hit high enough to land hits against most epic mobs on 2 or greater. This life, I rarely bother with melee in epics though.

Re: HP w/o max CON:

260 - 36 CON (18 base + 3 tome + 3 exceptional + 7 item + 1 enhancement + 2 rage + 2 ship)
160 - Favored Soul
030 - Favored Soul Toughness III
030 - Dwarven Toughness III
023 - Toughness
040 - Epic Cavalry Plate
020 - Toughness Item
010 - Draconic Vitality
045 - Shroud Item
010 - Guild HP Crystal
===
618 HP

If you fully invest in CON & HP enhancements, there's 698 HP possible without getting another Toughness feat.

[fedechicco]

Let's continue the game:

in the very remote hypothesis that true AC is possible on FvS, what's the maximum attainable AC while shield blocking on a pure lvl20 FvS?

And what could it be on a 19FvS/1mnk splash?

Don't be cheap on equipment, i collected quite a lot of AC gear in the past lives, and i could collect more.
Just don't mention epic equipment please, this is a completionist situation, i'd like to stay at lvl20 as little as possible.