Put the crop DOWN!

[Cadbran]

I'm beating a dead horse with my rogue/barb/fighter idea, but I can't stop trying to twink it...so here's another shot modeled after this build http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=317844 (32 point, I know). Instead of acrobat I focused on mechanic and also allocated some skill points into Diplomacy (which I understand can be very helpful on a rogue build)...any help is greatly appreciated. Though this build is not as beefy as the 32 point aforementioned, he looks pretty sturdy to my inexperienced eye...



Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Chaotic Good Human Male
(1 Fighter \ 6 Barbarian \ 13 Rogue)
Hit Points: 282
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 13
Reflex: 13
Will: 5

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 22
Dexterity 14 16
Constitution 15 15
Intelligence 12 12
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 8 8

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 4 5
Bluff -1 -1
Concentration 2 2
Diplomacy 2 19
Disable Device 5 34
Haggle -1 -1
Heal -1 -1
Hide 6 21
Intimidate -1 -1
Jump 3 6
Listen 3 4
Move Silently 6 22
Open Lock 6 26
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 5
Search 5 28
Spot 3 27
Swim 3 6
Tumble 5 7
Use Magic Device 3 22

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Cleave
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Barbarian)


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 7 (Rogue)


Level 8 (Rogue)


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 10 (Barbarian)


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Rogue)


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Sunder


Level 16 (Barbarian)


Level 17 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 19 (Rogue)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker I
Enhancement: Rogue Acid Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Mechanic I
Enhancement: Rogue Mechanic II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Enhancement: Rogue Wrack Construct I
Enhancement: Rogue Wrack Construct II
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device I
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device II
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device III
Enhancement: Improved Open Lock I
Enhancement: Improved Open Lock II
Enhancement: Improved Open Lock III
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense II
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery II

[karl_k0ch]

With the amount of SA dice which are granted by 13 levels of rogue, it's some kind of a waste to just wield one weapon.

I am aware of the tightness of Stat points, but if you'd go 15 Dex, and 14 Con and manage to get a +2 Dex tome, you'd to a lot more damage than with the current version. If TWF, then I'd drop great cleave for Khopesh.

[Cadbran]

With the amount of SA dice which are granted by 13 levels of rogue, it's some kind of a waste to just wield one weapon.

I am aware of the tightness of Stat points, but if you'd go 15 Dex, and 14 Con and manage to get a +2 Dex tome, you'd to a lot more damage than with the current version. If TWF, then I'd drop great cleave for Khopesh.


I also have considered a TWF version of the same; it will take some more finesse; thank you Karl for your help. Would you recommend only dropping Great Cleave and exchanging THF for TWF?

This is what I have thusfar for the TWF Build...There's an error I didn't go back and fix; exchange bluff for diplomacy.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Chaotic Good Human Male
(1 Fighter \ 6 Barbarian \ 13 Rogue)
Hit Points: 282
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 13
Reflex: 14
Will: 5

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 22
Dexterity 15 19
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 12 12
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 8 8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 14

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 5 7
Bluff 2 18
Concentration 2 2
Diplomacy -1 -1
Disable Device 5 32
Haggle -1 -1
Heal -1 -1
Hide 6 21
Intimidate -1 -1
Jump 3 6
Listen 1 11
Move Silently 6 22
Open Lock 6 25
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 5
Search 5 28
Spot 3 27
Swim 3 6
Tumble 6 10
Use Magic Device 3 23

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Bluff (+3)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Listen (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 3 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh


Level 4 (Barbarian)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 5 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)


Level 6 (Barbarian)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Skill: Listen (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave


Level 7 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 8 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 9 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+3)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Sunder


Level 10 (Barbarian)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Listen (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 11 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Barbarian)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Barbarian)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Barbarian)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike


Level 18 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 19 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+3)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker I
Enhancement: Rogue Acid Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Mechanic I
Enhancement: Rogue Mechanic II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device I
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device II
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device III
Enhancement: Improved Open Lock I
Enhancement: Improved Open Lock II
Enhancement: Improved Open Lock III
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense II
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery II





Also, Karl, I've seen that you have a lot of exp with rogues, and I was wondering if you find that they get hit a lot? It seems every hit lands whereas with my battle cleric, hits are less frequent; your thoughts are welcome, sir.

[Elibolas]

I understand the fascination. Insofar as it's a flavor build, you really can't got wrong as long as you are having fun. If it were me, I'd consider swapping Mechanic for Assassin, to maximize the SA; switch Improved Sunder for OTWF to max out your dual Khopeshes; and similarly lose Cleave for something like another toughness or upping your Use Magic Device with a feat.

-- Elibolas

[Alabore]

Stray musings: Cleave is a prereq to Frenzied Berserker.
Not sure about Assassin II. Assassinate relies on Rog lvl and Int.

[Rydin_Dirtay]

The above builds would not really have any Assassinate DC to write home about.

Despite this, the Assassin PrE would still be worth taking for the SA dice alone. Although I might be tempted to go Acro for the speed, and no knockdown, just for fun. It would be a fast mover, which I like.

[JollySwagMan]

Note that Assassin and Frenzied Berzerker are incompatible: Assassin requires Rogue Damage boost, whereas Berzerker requires Barb Damage boost.



So here we have a Rogue icon FGT/BRB/ROG, and there is a Barb icon build a few threads down...

I humbly submit my Fighter icon version :) (which I have settled into as my favourite favour farming toon, as it can start off the vet status boat with the Barbarian Anger's set without needing to touch korthos)

Build concepts: Fast melee toon with trapskills, plus some intimidate for protecting/interacting with NPCs. FTP/28 point friendly, no tomes required. can switch between Kensai THF or Stalwart Defender, dumps Dex in favour of Int for Insightful reflexes and an easier time trapsmithing.

Strengths: Very solid '6th man', offering speediness, DPS, trapskills, tankability, UMD and D-Door.

Weaknesses: Very poor will save (triple melee multiclass) and thus reliant on +resistance, +enchantment save and +spell resistance items. Even then, I would expect better saves, extra Toughnesses (blah) and focus upon hate generation from a 'tank'. Poor ranged ability, though UMD-ing damage scrolls provides a better option than bows for this character. Brutal Throw is another option, do note however that Rogue 2 allows for +30% on scroll damage/healing if this doesn't appeal. Surprisingly enough dumping Dex still allows for a generous situational AC while levelling if willing to bother with it, but I prefer heaping on guards on this type of character.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 4 True Neutral Human Male (Favour Farming version)
(2 Fighter \ 1 Barbarian \ 1 Rogue)
Hit Points: 92
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 3\3
Fortitude: 7
Reflex: 5
Will: -1

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 4)
Strength 16 18
Dexterity 8 8
Constitution 15 15
Intelligence 16 16
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 8 8

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 4)
Balance 3 5
Bluff 3 3
Concentration 2 2
Diplomacy -1 -1
Disable Device 7 10
Haggle -1 -1
Heal -1 -1
Hide 3 3
Intimidate 3 5
Jump 7 8
Listen -1 -1
Move Silently 3 3
Open Lock 3 3
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 3 3
Search 7 10
Spot 3 3
Swim 3 4
Tumble 3 3
Use Magic Device 3 6

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Least Dragonmark of Passage
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 3 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Reduction Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I




And here's the level 20! Some flexibility with feats/skills of course, I'm fond of the D-Doors and Improved Trip, but one could fit in the THF chain instead and Greater Weapon Focus. Skills wise, there's plenty of points to max out UMD/search/disable and perhaps Intim, though I threw some extra points into Balance instead. There's a fair bit of flexibility with regards to the 5 levels after Fighter 12, Rogue 2 and Barb 1 - personally I favour more Rogue levels than Barbarian ones, as I prefer focusing more on skills (and being able to quickly heal/raise a party member) than Rages. However this following Barbarian 6 split does allow one to hit 40 Str through class abilities/levelups/enhancements with no items or tomes on a 28 point build that starts with 16...! (40+str helps a chararacter to stand in front of some larger bosses who like to Overrun hapless players) If curious about the 15 starting Con, it's to even out with Human Adaptability: Con, which allows access to Racial Toughness III (though I didn't fit in Fighter Toughness IV on this character, so that can be a bit moot.) On a 32 point build accessed through favour, a player might have access to more resources such Dimension Door scrolls (unavailable in shops, though found in many higher mid range-high level chests) and stacks of haste potions, so the Dragonmarks might be swapped for other feats. One might drop starting Con down to 14, and bump up Str to 18, or instead throw those 6 points into Charisma, and taking the Force of Personality feat and an extra Toughness (probably swapping some feats around for Shield Mastery and more Toughnesses/save boosting feats to make for a heavier tank).



Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
(12 Fighter \ 6 Barbarian \ 2 Rogue)
Hit Points: 386
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 12
Will: 5

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 24
Dexterity 8 8
Constitution 15 18
Intelligence 16 16
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 8 8

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 3 9
Bluff 3 5
Concentration 2 6
Diplomacy -1 1
Disable Device 7 26
Haggle -1 -1
Heal -1 -1
Hide 3 3
Intimidate 3 19
Jump 7 14
Listen -1 -1
Move Silently 3 3
Open Lock 3 3
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 3 3
Search 7 26
Spot 3 3
Swim 3 7
Tumble 3 3
Use Magic Device 3 25

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Least Dragonmark of Passage
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 3 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Reduction Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Passage


Level 7 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 8 (Fighter)


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Fighter)


Level 11 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device


Level 13 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Trip


Level 14 (Fighter)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Improved Sunder


Level 16 (Barbarian)


Level 17 (Barbarian)


Level 18 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow


Level 19 (Barbarian)


Level 20 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker I
Enhancement: Kensei Greataxe Mastery I
Enhancement: Kensei Greataxe Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Greataxe Specialization I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III