Epic ward in epic challenges?

[lhidda]

Really? Thx for rendering my divine caster useless. BB is fun sometimes but useless vs. archers and spellcasters.

[J1NG]

Umm... What exactly is the issue here?

No seriously. What version of Epic Ward are you think you are experiencing and what and why is it making your divine caster useless other than to heal?

A bit more information allows discussion, right now. There isn't enough to say anything from what you have written.

J1NG

[Blackmoors]

Umm... What exactly is the issue here?

No seriously. What version of Epic Ward are you think you are experiencing and what and why is it making your divine caster useless other than to heal?

A bit more information allows discussion, right now. There isn't enough to say anything from what you have written.

J1NG

He means mobs in Challenges (CR 21-25) are immune to insta-kill spells and effects (like it was in every epic prior U9).

[lhidda]

He means mobs in Challenges (CR 21-25) are immune to insta-kill spells and effects (like it was in every epic prior U9).

Exactly. +1


Make the spell pen needed higher, and the dcs, but do not negate any instant kill spells totally.

In another way you could make all enemies immune to melee damage. Would be equally stupid.

[J1NG]

Ooooh. I see. I missed out the word challenges, but also not bothered to run the pile of... er... "not worthy of my time" content since it came out.

Still, these challenges have been out a while already. Have you only noticed them now? Or recently? As I'd imagine the others who have run it on Epic would have noticed already and made any comments needed already. Was this a recent change from a recent patch?

J1NG

[lhidda]

Ooooh. I see. I missed out the word challenges, but also not bothered to run the pile of... er... "not worthy of my time" content since it came out.

Still, these challenges have been out a while already. Have you only noticed them now? Or recently? As I'd imagine the others who have run it on Epic would have noticed already and made any comments needed already. Was this a recent change from a recent patch?

J1NG

I address issues that I experience, sry I do not check other threads. I bought the pack 3 days ago. No clue which update changed a thing. Fact is Dec 26th epic ward on in epic challenges. I also think the update history is of minor interest.

What do you think? Epic ward in challenges yes/no? Reasonable?

[Blackmoors]

The epic ward has been up since day 1. My opinion is that they are using the same coding that was used in the Crystal Cove event were mobs on epic had the epic DW since they were designed before U9 (were all mobs on epic had the epic DW). So, using the same "blueprint" has made the mobs in challenges all warded on epic. In my opinion, in order to keep the game consistency, they should remove the epic DW from challenges (since they were removed form other epics) but I dont think its a priority, theres still more pressing stuff to correct ingame for us to ask for this change ;)

[lhidda]

The epic ward has been up since day 1. My opinion is that they are using the same coding that was used in the Crystal Cove event were mobs on epic had the epic DW since they were designed before U9 (were all mobs on epic had the epic DW). So, using the same "blueprint" has made the mobs in challenges all warded on epic. In my opinion, in order to keep the game consistency, they should remove the epic DW from challenges (since they were removed form other epics) ...

Gotya.


... but I dont think its a priority, theres still more pressing stuff to correct ingame for us to ask for this change ;)

I ask for this change. High priority for me.

[in4theride75]

Have you tried casting dispel magic? It simply might be a blanket DW that can be dispelled. Dunno, never run the content so it's worth a try.

[lhidda]

Have you tried casting dispel magic? It simply might be a blanket DW that can be dispelled. Dunno, never run the content so it's worth a try.

It is not dw id say. Inspecting target shows no buff. Some casters additional cast dw, which is visible. But i didnt try dispel magic. I should give it a shot.

[fuzzy1guy]

It's not really deathward. Its the epic ward that we had in the cove.


Why is your divine useless? Mines not.

Don't have your Divine Punishment? Don't have level drain? Don't have cometfall, flamestrike, bladebarrier, holy smite, defic vengance, searing light, chaos hammer, firestorm, order's wrath, command, or even divine power and pick up a weapon?

You can still do all those things... Or even get some people in the party and heal them if thats all you can do...

Same problem arcanes have in these epics as well. And they like you... still have other options. Are they as easy as instant kill everything? Nope. Adapt. Try something else.

Yeah it's difficult. But some things should be. This seems like one of them. it's kinda in the name, twice.

Epic level... challenge...

[mudfud]

I like the fact they have epic ward in epic challenges. In challenges it's so much easier to make a tier 3 epic item then most other epic items gotten from actual quests. If it's changed to no epic ward in challenges it would make grinding for those few hundred epic pieces even easier which would be bad imo.

[WoD-IroN]

at the time, the whole epic ward thing was discussed and was decided to be removed along-side auto crits.
its a fairly reasonable rant and i would expect the epic challenges not to have that buff as well.
calling someone stupid and telling him to go fish and 'lrn2plynoobroflcopter' isnt really the point.

besides, kiting a group through bb's is a good way of soloing with a divine. any divine knows that.
its cheap, effective and fast.
unless u really want to start throwing 80-ish dmg cometfalls onto bad guys or wasting half ur mana on single targets using DP?

try placing BB on a corner and running around the corner then..... even rangers move when they lose sight of the target, but i guess that was l33t skillz i just gave away there lol

its not really that reasonable tbh. all it is saying is "make the game easier because i cant solo" if the game was designed for solo then why did turbine invent the party option?

Also cometfall hits for alot harder than 80, its a very effective spell as it also knocks down enemies, infact its so good im taking double Cleric PL for my divine toon just to get the most out of the spell. but then if your going into epic challenges with spells that are doing only 80dam then yeah your gonna have an epic challenge of a time

[BoBoDaClown]

In general, immunities are poor game design - they should find away to allow a classes abilities if at all possible.

Instakills is obviously a massive issue in the game as a whole, but removing that option removes part of the game - they should be making it a lot tougher to instantly kill a mob. They should have looked at piloting such changes, maybe to saves etc, in these challenges, rather than taking the easy road.

[lhidda]

In general, immunities are poor game design - they should find away to allow a classes abilities if at all possible.

Instakills is obviously a massive issue in the game as a whole, but removing that option removes part of the game - they should be making it a lot tougher to instantly kill a mob. They should have looked at piloting such changes, maybe to saves etc, in these challenges, rather than taking the easy road.

Exactly my feelings. +1

[huffandpuff]

ya, its about 80-90ish without max\emp or some-such (assuming CL 20)
the spell is 2d6 per 2 caster lvls (loaded dice)
for simplicity - 1d6 per CL
max dmg 120 without any enhancments.

i usualy use it just for the knockdowen effect so, for me, it does that much.
though i remember it doing much less before the spell pass, i think it was only 2d6. can anyone remember?

running an archer back and forth thruogh a bb is impossible, its better to just whack at those.
archers have good reflex saves, usualy evasion as well and they dont move much so bb isnt effective against them
if ur a pure caster try DP, if u can melee then use command and beat the **** out of it.
for the meanwhile, this doesnt seem like it'll change...

[WoD-IroN]

ya, its about 80-90ish without max\emp or some-such (assuming CL 20)
the spell is 2d6 per 2 caster lvls (loaded dice)
for simplicity - 1d6 per CL
max dmg 120 without any enhancments.

i usualy use it just for the knockdowen effect so, for me, it does that much.
though i remember it doing much less before the spell pass, i think it was only 2d6. can anyone remember?

running an archer back and forth thruogh a bb is impossible, its better to just whack at those.
archers have good reflex saves, usualy evasion as well and they dont move much so bb isnt effective against them
if ur a pure caster try DP, if u can melee then use command and beat the **** out of it.
for the meanwhile, this doesnt seem like it'll change...

so use metamagics then... or get an effiency clicky (excuse spelling, im sure its wrong)
its easy to make spells running metamagics do more damage per point of sp used than ones that dont (and that doesnt require mass farming for l33t gear)

[huffandpuff]

ah, i long since TR'd several times over..
i doubt that cliky would help on a ranger ^.~
sup. potency works better than efficiency cilky, and im not a fan of clikies in general..

besides, why waste more mana on a CC spell than i need to?
to me, cometfall is about the knockdown mainly. its too slow and only ticks 1 time. when i want dmg i use bb's

[WoD-IroN]

ah, i long since TR'd several times over..
i doubt that cliky would help on a ranger ^.~
sup. potency works better than efficiency cilky, and im not a fan of clikies in general..

besides, why waste more mana on a CC spell than i need to?
to me, cometfall is about the knockdown mainly. its too slow and only ticks 1 time. when i want dmg i use bb's

yes i find cometfall to be the divines answer to CC, but the damage is certainly legitamate to be a DPS spell.
and yeah potency clickies work good too (wasnt going to list every possible way to powerup spells), anything like that (even ornated dagger (excuse spelling) can last a whole challenge run when used properly

yeah BB does more damage per spell poinjt used that cometfall obviously, but if one is complaining they cant kite mobs through BB Then BB is doing 0 damage per spell point used therefore cometfall will do infinite times more damage than BB.

if your cometfall does 90 damage and costs 60sp to cast, then the +50% from empower will make it do 135 damage for only 80sp (not including efficient metamagics (which you should have if you have metamagics in first place)) thereby making mobs die faster and dealing more dps per sp used. more DPS you do per hit the less hits you have to do ... same with bb, if your BB is too gimpy to kill mobs before it runs out then you have to cast it again thereby doubling the sp cost and halfing the damage per sp point used

overall its just about doing some simple math to work out the best damage per sp point you can achieve (obviously is diffrent for diffrent people depending on the abilites/items avaliable)

[Qaliya]

In general, immunities are poor game design - they should find away to allow a classes abilities if at all possible.

I think instakills are an even worse game design issue than immunities. They aren't an issue in real D&D because there are natural limitations on them. They are overpowered in DDO and largely responsible for the imbalance in power between caster and non-caster classes.

I'd like to see less instakilling, not more. It doesn't have to be via immunities, I agree that much higher saves would do.

[huffandpuff]

they could've just made a '+save VS death spells' effect like in PNP, a save targeted strictly at insta death spells and not just bump their fortitude overall

[tinyelvis]

To insta kill or not insta kill, that is the question.

Insta kill is part of the game. Some character classes are built around this and some, like the pale master were designed to use insta kills. If you blanket immunity insta kills you, in one fell swoop, cut off at the knees these toons.

Blanket wards essentially, without recourse, can take a toons playstyle ( a style used in the rest of the game) and squash it dead. Everyone should be able to play their toon in epic content without the need to resort to a support role.

Now, a cleric may have other options, however a toon like a pale master often does not. Blanket immunities could be a devastating blow. Imagine if a ward was placed against any melee hits coming from a toon that was raged (for one thing there would be a bigger uproar in the community). This is, in effect, what you do to toons spec'd to insta kill.

[Qaliya]

Elvis, the problem is that instakilling is overpowered, especially on epic. It doesn't make sense that one type of character has to spend 5 minutes beating down on a dozen mobs while another can kill all of them in 5 seconds.

Epic ward may be a poor solution to this problem, but it's better than nothing. There's no reason why PMs can't still be powerful and retain their necromantic flavor, without being complete juggernauts that cause other players to feel superfluious.

[Yvonnel-1]

dont take me wrong - i think mobs should be allowed to buff themselfes dw and stuff, but it would be nice to be debuffable too!

ive never seen any of them in shroud crafting their 3xNeg items ^^

[Hendrik]

I address issues that I experience, sry I do not check other threads. I bought the pack 3 days ago. No clue which update changed a thing. Fact is Dec 26th epic ward on in epic challenges. I also think the update history is of minor interest.

What do you think? Epic ward in challenges yes/no? Reasonable?

Little bit on the fence about it....

One hand they are Epic CHALLENGES, emphasis on Challenge.

Other hand, with the ease that they are and can be farmed insta-kill makes the Challenge part no so challenging.

OP, what MOB are you trying to insta-kill in these challenges?

[anto_capone]

Leave my PM alone plz :D

Bring back vorpal too.


Insta killing is fun and all should enjoy!

Can rogues assassinate old epic ward?

[Viisari]

Really? Thx for rendering my divine caster useless. BB is fun sometimes but useless vs. archers and spellcasters.

Useless huh? Having upgraded two items to tier III I'd say evokers are one of the most powerful assets you can have in any challenge.