Wizard/Rogue

[lowfuel1]

I am thinking of trying a Wizard Rogue combination. Has anyone done this successfully or have any suggestions?

[Aurora1979]

Yea, its a fairly common mix.

18/2 wiz rogue mostly.

I can personally recommend doing it with a warforged.

Take 1 rogue first level, then wizard, probably until you get firewall, then take your second rogue.

Insightful reflex feat works really well with this build, gets you a nice evasion with the rogue levels.

You get lots of skill points.

Personally I would suggest using a heart of wood to swap out the 2 rogue levels if you want to stay at end game for a while, thats not 100% nessecery but getting dispelled and having a lower spell pen/ dc's can sometimes be a pain.

Lots of ways round that but if this is first life first try it MIGHT be something you want to consider.

[Cauthey]

You gimp your spell DCs by watering down with rogue levels. However, the plus is Evasion, and trapping. Both of which are very very handy.

Just, when you get to 20, be ready for epic PUGs to ask you what your enchant DCs are. And when they're not 40+, be prepared to be declined.

Still, it can be a very effective build. Take your 1st level as rogue, and don't take rogue again until after 7th level. This will give you space to max out your skill ranks in Disable Device, Search, Spot, and UMD if you choose.

[Calebro]

You gimp your spell DCs by watering down with rogue levels. However, the plus is Evasion, and trapping. Both of which are very very handy.

Just, when you get to 20, be ready for epic PUGs to ask you what your enchant DCs are. And when they're not 40+, be prepared to be declined.

Still, it can be a very effective build. Take your 1st level as rogue, and don't take rogue again until after 7th level. This will give you space to max out your skill ranks in Disable Device, Search, Spot, and UMD if you choose.

Your DCs are 1 point lower due to losing the capstone.
It's the spell penetration that takes a hit, losing two caster levels.
Regardless, a rogue splash can be effective with a little gear. It's isn't that big of a difference. The difference between pure and a splash is the difference between a first life and a second life. The difference is there, but it isn't a huge difference.

[ArcaneMelee]

The argument "pure or splash" is a very old one - I'll stand by the "benefits of 2 rogue outweigh the benefits of pure wiz".

[lowfuel1]

Your DCs are 1 point lower due to losing the capstone.
It's the spell penetration that takes a hit, losing two caster levels.
Regardless, a rogue splash can be effective with a little gear. It's isn't that big of a difference. The difference between pure and a splash is the difference between a first life and a second life. The difference is there, but it isn't a huge difference.

Having never leveled a toon beyond 10th, some of what you said I don't understand. What do you mean by the difference between first life and a second life?

[Chai]

Elf Pale master 18 rogue 2.

Loses 1 DC from not being a pure wizard due to capstone.
Has as much if not MORE spell pen then pure wizard of another race due to elven arcanum.

On a first life, can start con at 14 before you run out of points to pay for it after maxing int - lich form gives you another 4, so the HP wont be super low.

[Calebro]

Having never leveled a toon beyond 10th, some of what you said I don't understand. What do you mean by the difference between first life and a second life?

By splashing 2 levels of rogue, you lose 2 spell penetration from the two lost caster levels, and one DC due to the loss of the capstone.
Splash is -2 spell pen & -1 DC vs. pure.

If you level as a wizard and then True Reincarnate as a wizard again, the past life offers 2 inherent spell pen and you can take a feat to gain +1 on all DCs.
First life is -2 spell pen and -1 DC vs. a second life.

So the difference between a pure and a splash is the same difference as a first life and a second life wizard.

[somenewnoob]

It's pretty fun, if you go wf you are very self sufficient. I took rogue as my first level, and then at level 9 (Level 7 wiz = firewall, icestorm). Once I got insightful reflexes and evasion I wondered how I ever lived without evasion on my other builds.

[Cauthey]

Your DCs are 1 point lower due to losing the capstone.
It's the spell penetration that takes a hit, losing two caster levels.
Regardless, a rogue splash can be effective with a little gear. It's isn't that big of a difference. The difference between pure and a splash is the difference between a first life and a second life. The difference is there, but it isn't a huge difference.

Not sure, but I think you also miss out on a Wizard class feat? That can also affect your DC (as in not finding room for the Greater Enchantment Focus feat, etc.).

[Syllph]

Wiz rogue is amazingly powerful and needs little in the way of super gear. You will, however, need to spend quite a bit as you'll want to upgrade your rogue gear and your caster gear every few levels. Depending on your finances this isn't always so cheap.

that being said with high int and insightful reflexes you'll have wonderful evasion. My choice was rogue at level 1 then level till I got 4th level spells (especially firewall) then take my second level of rogue for evasion and to bump my rogue skills.

You'll honestly have higher rogue skills than the majority or pure rogues as traps skills are based on int (lockpicking you won't need just go with knock, you'll miss a few chests/door here and there but by and large knock will do you fine)

You'll have survivability as your fellow casters are decimated in a chain lightning or stay fireball you'll be blasting away with impunity.

Having played 3 lives of wiz/rog I love 'em. If you're going for pure perfection in a caster this will not yield those results. (You'll miss a few 9th level slots, your DC/spell pen will not be maxed) If you're going for fun, survivable and very powerful then wiz/rog is perfect.

Check out Shyiva my wiz/rog on argo. http://my.ddo.com/character/argonnessen/shyiva/

[Calebro]

Not sure, but I think you also miss out on a Wizard class feat? That can also affect your DC (as in not finding room for the Greater Enchantment Focus feat, etc.).

A non-human splashed wiz has eleven feats. If you want to fit in feats to raise your DCs, you have plenty to work with. The loss of the feat does not directly relate to a loss of DCs unless you choose to let it do so.
It's a choice, not a forfeiture.

[ArcaneMelee]

Not sure, but I think you also miss out on a Wizard class feat? That can also affect your DC (as in not finding room for the Greater Enchantment Focus feat, etc.).

Well, you can't use your free feat @20 for Spell Focus/Greater Spell Focus if you're trying to get your DCs as high as you can. Well, you could use it for Spell Focus, but then you're not getting your DCs as high as you can.


...
You'll honestly have higher rogue skills than the majority or pure rogues as traps skills are based on int (lockpicking you won't need just go with knock, you'll miss a few chests/door here and there but by and large knock will do you fine)
...

It's not really an either/or - you can use Knock OR 4 ranks in Open Lock and a base Dex of 8. Knock is convenient, but I actually preferred to use my 2nd level spells for other things.

[FuzzyDuck81]

WF wiz18/rogue2 is a very common & powerful multiclass option... their casting power suffers a little particularly in high end & epics where as much spell pen as you can get is important but they can handle most traps as well as a "proper" rogue & get great survivability - evoker archmage is a good option for pewpew power (mine was this originally) & pale master (is this now) is also very effective.