A few questions about AC & ASF

[Failedlegend]

I'm trying to build an Arcane Tank (mostly to save my crafter who is a Wiz7/Monk2 Zombie Monk but I don't really like Unarmed style of combat) and it will take 2 LRs to do so (With only one LR at one point I would temporarily have 4 classes) I want to make SURE I'm set on everything before I do this so I have a few questions

1) With a starting dex of 14 in light or no armor can I get a viable AC (IOW can I avoid disabling evasion) or do I have to wear medium armor (chainmail is the most ASF I can handle..I think)

2) Does Twilight/Mithral Stack IOW If I put twilight/mithral on both my shield and armor will they both get their ASF reduced by it...also hows does lesser arcane dexterity work (glove,ring or trinket crafting) does it take 5% off my total ASF or 5% per source of ASF ie. Shield and Armor

3) I have two builds in mind one is a Wiz12/Fighter7/Arty1 and the other is Wiz12/Fighter6/Rogue2 with the main difference being Haste Boost 3 & A Handful of Arty Goodies vs. Evasion...the former being better if I plan on being in anything more than light armor

4) Can Combat Expertise, Defender Stance & Wraith all be active at the same time?


Here's the build for Reference.


True Neutral Dwarf Wiz12/Fighter7/Arty1 PM2/SD1

Str 18 (Lvl ups here)
Con 16
Int 16 (+2 Tome Auto-Applied at lvl 7)

Note: If I bother with AC lower Str to 16 and boost Dex to 14

Level Order: Arty 1, Fighter 2, Wiz 3-14, Fighter 15-20


Feats

Normal

1 Toughness
3 Shield Mastery
6 Improved Shield Bash
9 Insightful Reflexes
12 GSF:Necro
15 Empower
18 Improved Shield Mastery

Note: If I decide to care about AC I'll likely take Combat Expertise instead of Insightful Reflexes


Fighter

1 THF
15 IC:Slashing
17 ITHF
19 GTHF

Wiz

3 Extend
7 SF: Necro
12 Maximize



Spells

1 Nightshield, Detect Doors, Exp Retreat, Feather Fall, Jump
2 Resist Energy, LDA, Blur, Invis, Melf's
3 Rage, Displace, Haste, Water Breathing, D-Door
4 Stoneskin, D-Aura, Ice Storm ,Neg Energy Burst
5 Prot from Elly, Teleport, Biting Cold, Electric Surge
6 Greater Heroism, True Seeing, Stone to Flesh

Note: Obviously this is subject to change for certain quests but its the general loadout




Level 1 (Artificer)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)


Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 3 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 4 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 5 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 6 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 7 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 8 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 9 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 10 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 11 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 13 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 16 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 19 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

[Failedlegend]

No one?

[sephiroth1084]

Are you dead-set on all the non-wizard levels?
Why do you want AC on a wizard?

ANY armor or shield will turn off most of your monk class features--not sure if you care about those. Not sure whether Evasion gets turned off by armor if it comes from a monk. If not, then you need to stick to light armor, or mithral medium armor (medium armor that becomes light when made of mithral).

You cannot have 4 classes, even with LRs.

Honestly, you could probably achieve what you're after as a pure wizard with Shield Proficiency and Shield Mastery. Pale Masters are incredibly tough!

Combat Expertise doubles the cost of your spells while it's active--it is an awful feat for a caster to take!

[Cardtrick]

Are you dead-set on all the non-wizard levels?
Why do you want AC on a wizard?

ANY armor or shield will turn off most of your monk class features--not sure if you care about those. Not sure whether Evasion gets turned off by armor if it comes from a monk. If not, then you need to stick to light armor, or mithral medium armor (medium armor that becomes light when made of mithral).

Monk evasion works exactly like regular evasion. It does not require you to be centered, just in light or no armor. Between that and the two feats, a 2-monk splash is often a good choice even if you plan to be uncentered.



You cannot have 4 classes, even with LRs.


He knows that -- he said he'll have to do two LRs to avoid having 4 classes if he were to try to make his changes with only one.

(That said -- it seems insane to me to spend the cost of two LRs when you're only level 9.)



Honestly, you could probably achieve what you're after as a pure wizard with Shield Proficiency and Shield Mastery. Pale Masters are incredibly tough!

Combat Expertise doubles the cost of your spells while it's active--it is an awful feat for a caster to take!

I remember his other posts. He's not looking to be a wizard who can also melee some; he wants to be a melee with wizard levels just for buffing, concealment, and self-healing in wraith from (and maybe some DOTs to back up his melee DPS).

To answer your questions (and bear in mind I'm not 100% sure on any of this, I've never had a build like this):

1) On this build, you won't reach elite/epic endgame levels of AC. You can reach relevant levels of AC for other content, including normal endgame raids and Amrath, though it will involve a lot of investment in gear. 14 Dex is plenty. You would most likely have slightly higher AC in medium armor, but it still won't be top-tier, so it's not worth giving up all your other forms of damage mitigation (evasion, wraith form concealment, stoneskin, pale master aura, etc.). Either way, your potential AC will probably be lower than if you kept the 2 rogue levels as monk and went centered, but I understand that you don't want to.

2) Yes, mithral and twilight stack with each other. They only apply to the item they're on, however (e.g., mithral + twilight on your shield doese nothing for your armor). Arcane Casting Dexterity, found on certain named items, applied to all items you're wearing and stacks with twilight/mithral, but not with itself (only the highest level of Arcane Casting Dexterity applies).

3) Both builds seem reasonable for your goals, but I think the evasion one is significantly better.

4) Yes, all 3 of those can be active at once. Sephiroth is very right that you'll want to toggle CE off when casting, though.

[Galeria]

Does this same thread keep getting a new title or are they a bunch of threads with the same content?

[Cardtrick]

Does this same thread keep getting a new title or are they a bunch of threads with the same content?

He had specific questions with this thread. I think it's fine -- it's not like the forums are so inundated with posts that we're losing content if someone posts a couple of times.

[Failedlegend]

Are you dead-set on all the non-wizard levels? Yes I laready have both a wizard ands sorc this was meant to be an arcane warrior orginally but i didnt like the Monk fighting style so I'm changing it to an Arcane tank that wields a D-Axe and a Shield

Why do you want AC on a wizard? Yes because its a tank I want as many defensive options as possible

ANY armor or shield will turn off most of your monk class features--not sure if you care about those. Not sure whether Evasion gets turned off by armor if it comes from a monk. If not, then you need to stick to light armor, or mithral medium armor (medium armor that becomes light when made of mithral). I don't have any monk levels their getting removed when I LR

You cannot have 4 classes, even with LRs. Thats why it will require 2 LRs first one allows me to eliminate this problem

Like this (at least for the 12/7/1 version)


Current:

M
W
W
W
W
W
W
W
M

Monk/Wiz

LR+3 (First LR):

M--> Arty
W
W
W
W
W
W
W
M--> W

Makes for an Arty/Wiz/Monk than Arty/Wiz when LR is complete so never more than 3 classes.

LR +1 (Second LR):

A
W --> F
W
W
W
W
W
W
W

Starts at Arty/Wiz than adds fighter so again only 3 classes


Honestly, you could probably achieve what you're after as a pure wizard with Shield Proficiency and Shield Mastery. Pale Masters are incredibly tough! They are VERY nice but I already have one so I'm avoiding that

Combat Expertise doubles the cost of your spells while it's active--it is an awful feat for a caster to take! A caster yes, an arcane tank that primarily using spells for buffing is FAR less affected

Comments in red

[Failedlegend]

It seems insane to me to spend the cost of two LRs when you're only level 9.)

It more about the 40+ levels in each crafting school otherwise i'd just reroll - besides restriction promotes creativity :P




Hwants to be a melee with wizard levels just for buffing, concealment, and self-healing in wraith from (and maybe some DOTs to back up his melee DPS).

Bingo




1) On this build, you won't reach elite/epic endgame levels of AC. You can reach relevant levels of AC for other content, including normal endgame raids and Amrath, though it will involve a lot of investment in gear. 14 Dex is plenty. You would most likely have slightly higher AC in medium armor, but it still won't be top-tier, so it's not worth giving up all your other forms of damage mitigation (evasion, wraith form concealment, stoneskin, pale master aura, etc.). Either way, your potential AC will probably be lower than if you kept the 2 rogue levels as monk and went centered, but I understand that you don't want to.


Thats about the levels I was hoping for



2) Yes, mithral and twilight stack with each other. They only apply to the item they're on, however (e.g., mithral + twilight on your shield doese nothing for your armor). Arcane Casting Dexterity, found on certain named items, applied to all items you're wearing and stacks with twilight/mithral, but not with itself (only the highest level of Arcane Casting Dexterity applies).


Awesome and if I'm sticking to light/mithral medium sqaushing the ASF shouldn't be too hard



3) Both builds seem reasonable for your goals, but I think the evasion one is significantly better.


Yeah I'm probably going with the Wiz12/Fighter6/Rogue2...just gotta rearrange the stats & skills now.



4) Yes, all 3 of those can be active at once. Sephiroth is very right that you'll want to toggle CE off when casting, though.

Whats the cooldown on CE (I figure I can turn it off whenever i need to buff with 12 wiz and extend that shouldn't be too much)


Thanks Card got some reworking to do.

[Cardtrick]

Whats the cooldown on CE (I figure I can trun it off when ever i need to buff with 12 wiz and extend that shouldn't be too much)

30 seconds. You can definitely have it off for buffing. Unfortunately, you'll probably have to deal with the extra cost when DOTing/tanking.

[Hobgoblin]

not commenting on the build yet - but on the lr part couldnt you use the lr so you have your arti wiz levels and then level up and take your next level as a fighter?


on the build - it seems ok, but It seems like a lot of work for just an ok meele - dont get me wrong, it works, but still, still very gear intensive.

I would definatly drop your str str down to 16, bump either dex or cha (for umd) and i would lose the thf feats. awesome on a barb, good on a fighter, not so good on the battlecaster.

hope that helps

hob

[MsEricka]

See the link in my signature for everything you want to know about arcane spell failure.

[Failedlegend]

30 seconds. You can definitely have it off for buffing. Unfortunately, you'll probably have to deal with the extra cost when DOTing/tanking.

My general Plan is to only have it on if I need it..if I'm not getting hit w/o it i won't bother


not commenting on the build yet - but on the lr part couldnt you use the lr so you have your arti wiz levels and then level up and take your next level as a fighter?


No because than I wouldnt have access to Intimidate until than and no way to catch the skill up



on the build - it seems ok, but It seems like a lot of work for just an ok meele - dont get me wrong, it works, but still, still very gear intensive.


Its more about the ability to tank that it is to deal damage



I would lose the thf feats. awesome on a barb, good on a fighter, not so good on the battlecaster.


D-Axe* Shield + THF Line = Glancing Blows = More Aggro = Better Tank


See the link in my signature for everything you want to know about arcane spell failure.

Awesome Thanks Ill have a look

[Khellendros13]

30 seconds. You can definitely have it off for buffing. Unfortunately, you'll probably have to deal with the extra cost when DOTing/tanking.

It is a 6 second cooldown on PA/CE when you turn either of them on.