Air Elementals..........................

[soloist12]

Lol? How does a melee solo these in a challenge with a timer looming?

Seriously??? Had 3 minutes when i got to a boss, couldn't do absolutely anything since me and cleric hireling were on our backs for half of it. What's the point of a mob that penalizes melee more than they are already set back from casters?

I'm missing the beat here, but this isn't fun game design.

I can't even give this game a chance again, I'm that frustrated. No amount of gear would save me from that elemental, i don't understand. It's not even that it was hard, just the most annoying thing i've ever experienced in a game, ever.

Dungeons and Casters I guess - the class balance in this game is so far out the window.

[Jaid314]

last i heard, melees could still equip ranged weapons.

[Diyon]

You also get thrown around considerably less if you don't actually run at them. (There is a range that you can hit them and not get thrown back at, then you only have to worry about them randomly moving over you).

So either ignore the air eles or kill them quickly.

It is possible to solo with these in a timed challenge on a melee.

[donfilibuster]

Has the bug with shields been fixed? not sure on that but was an issue some time ago.

This has also nothing to do with the recent changes to casters that left melees behind in power.
But if it makes you feel good, the casters are getting pounded by the earth eles atm, at least those that dumped reflex thinking wf were immune to grab.

[WruntJunior]

Has the bug with shields been fixed? not sure on that but was an issue some time ago.

This has also nothing to do with the recent changes to casters that left melees behind in power.
But if it makes you feel good, the casters are getting pounded by the earth eles atm, at least those that dumped reflex thinking wf were immune to grab.

Not even close to true....earth eles are a joke on a caster. Web almost always gets them, at least long enough to irresistible dance them.

As far as the bug with shields, that was fixed...now it's nearly impossible to fight a group of air eles on a melee...even just one is bad enough.

Jaid314, as far as equipping a ranged weapon, it's very hard for a melee to do enough damage with a ranged weapon to kill an ele quickly, which is the OPs point.

OP, best advice I can give you is to get something to stop the air ele (earthgrab or something).

[GoRinNoSho]

IIRC it wasn't a bug that stopped Air Elementals from flinging people around, but a large amount of harumphing from the player community over quests like Fleshmaker's Laboratory. So they changed it so you'd only get flung around if you had a shield equipped, then a couple updates later they gave Air Elementals gust of wind to slow you down.

Then after that there was a lot of harumphing that the game was too easy. Now Air Eles throw you around and gust of wind you.

I'd be curious if more of the old way gets reverted back to (permanent blindness, ability drain, level drain) until there is enough harumphing to start adjusting it back the other way. Nothing more enjoyable than needing to follow a name to a stormreach tavern to blind find a silver flame clr to cast remove blindness. ;)

[Devilteck]

Sure you can get gear to stop this http://ddowiki.com/page/Renard%27s_Elegant_Hat...well at least for 25 times lmao.

[Gorbadoc]

Yeah, I was going to ask whether Renard's Fancy Hat no longer worked.

As for the fairness of a holdout enemy in a timed challenge-- I don't think I've seen that complaint about air elementals before. I'm hoping we'll see arguments both ways on this one. Certainly melee builds take longer to kill air elementals than caster builds do, but the same can be said of most monsters! Casters are better at killing trash mobs while running past.

Is that fair? I don't know. Are air elementals just an example of this issue, or are they a special case for game balance? Again, I don't know. I'm hoping to see some well-thought-out arguments.

[Sarisa]

Renard's Hat doesn't work properly any more. Even if it did, it's still not an option for levelling in the Desert, Reaver's Fate (if you are unable to get 3 charges), and Fleshmaker's Laboratory due to the ML:18 requirement.

[Ganolyn]

Ranging them with a Paralyzing Bow (assuming they are low enough CR for that to work) is the only way I have found to easily deal with them.

[Diyon]

IIRC it wasn't a bug that stopped Air Elementals from flinging people around, but a large amount of harumphing from the player community over quests like Fleshmaker's Laboratory. So they changed it so you'd only get flung around if you had a shield equipped, then a couple updates later they gave Air Elementals gust of wind to slow you down.

Then after that there was a lot of harumphing that the game was too easy. Now Air Eles throw you around and gust of wind you.

I'd be curious if more of the old way gets reverted back to (permanent blindness, ability drain, level drain) until there is enough harumphing to start adjusting it back the other way. Nothing more enjoyable than needing to follow a name to a stormreach tavern to blind find a silver flame clr to cast remove blindness. ;)

That's about right with how air elementals changed, but when the big nerf came around that stopped them from flinging you unless you had a shield, I'm fairly certain that was an attempt to bring them down a little and that it was a bug that they weren't flinging people without shields (basically, what shield people were getting was what everyone was supposed to be getting, and now they have fixed that bug).


Renard's Hat doesn't work properly any more. Even if it did, it's still not an option for levelling in the Desert, Reaver's Fate (if you are unable to get 3 charges), and Fleshmaker's Laboratory due to the ML:18 requirement.

Last I checked this was true, this needs fixed.

[Bakarne]

Ranging them with a Paralyzing Bow (assuming they are low enough CR for that to work) is the only way I have found to easily deal with them.

Banishing ranged weapons, with the extra damage and chance for dismissal, are even more effective than paralyzing, given that you have space to kite. Banishing Longbows/Repeaters tend to lead the kill count in Reaver's Fate Elite.

[Ganolyn]

Banishing ranged weapons are even more effective than paralyzing, given you have space to kite. Banishing Longbows/Repeaters tend to lead the kill count in Reaver's Fate Elite.

Yesterday, running desert rares, I was using dual banishing melee weapons and never got one to go poof as I was being thrown around too much. A bow has a lousy crit range and the elemental will probably close on you before you have time to get lucky, even with Improved Crit-Ranged. Multiple targets would be near impossible. Stopping them dead in their tracks is the only effcient way to battle them, unless as I said they are too high a CR for the paralyze to hold them, in which case I agree a Banishing bow/crossbow is a viable option.

[Tobril]

Sure you can get gear to stop this http://ddowiki.com/page/Renard%27s_Elegant_Hat...well at least for 25 times lmao.


Yeah, I was going to ask whether Renard's Fancy Hat no longer worked.

As for the fairness of a holdout enemy in a timed challenge-- I don't think I've seen that complaint about air elementals before. I'm hoping we'll see arguments both ways on this one. Certainly melee builds take longer to kill air elementals than caster builds do, but the same can be said of most monsters! Casters are better at killing trash mobs while running past.

Is that fair? I don't know. Are air elementals just an example of this issue, or are they a special case for game balance? Again, I don't know. I'm hoping to see some well-thought-out arguments.


Renard's Hat doesn't work properly any more. Even if it did, it's still not an option for levelling in the Desert, Reaver's Fate (if you are unable to get 3 charges), and Fleshmaker's Laboratory due to the ML:18 requirement.


Renards will keep you on your feet, but you will still be bounced around.

A charge is removed if you fail whatever-the-hell check it is to stay standing.

Still sucks that it doesn’t let you ignore getting flung around like a rag-doll.

[Sarisa]

Banishing is no longer based on the crit range. The Banish effect just goes off on a confirmed natural 20, so the crit range of a weapon doesn't matter any more. This was one of the many u9 changes. A Banisher also does 4d6 bane damage to extraplanar creatures.

In order to really deal with Air Eles now, you pretty much need one of:
Ranged instant kill, such as Finger of Death, Destruction, or (possibly) Phantasmal Killer. Implosion does not work, and Wail can be risky.

Some sort of either high DPS ranged weapon (Axiomatic/Anarchic of Greater Elemental Bane, Banishing of <something>) and room to kite, or some CC oriented ranged weapon like a Paralyzer to keep them in place. This is painful and rough on a melee spec'ed character without Ranger levels.

Be able to dish out ridiculously high spell damage at range (typically meaning a Sorc).

Be a raged out Barbarian with extremely high STR. Some extremely geared out Kensais may also be able to reach high enough STR to avoid the knockdown. The reason is that the knockdown and knockback are based off of pure STR or DEX stat checks, not saves. Due to the extremely high stats mobs have, mobs scale way out of proportion to players.

[Diyon]

Renards will keep you on your feet, but you will still be bounced around.

A charge is removed if you fail whatever-the-hell check it is to stay standing.

Still sucks that it doesn’t let you ignore getting flung around like a rag-doll.

This would explain why my acrobat never loses charges off the hat.


Be a raged out Barbarian with extremely high STR. Some extremely geared out Kensais may also be able to reach high enough STR to avoid the knockdown. The reason is that the knockdown and knockback are based off of pure STR or DEX stat checks, not saves. Due to the extremely high stats mobs have, mobs scale way out of proportion to players.

Mildly sure the knockback effect doesn't have any check or save. But it can be avoided as long as you don't get too close to them (as I said, it is possible to get into melee range without getting into knockback effect range), although they'll sometimes move closer themselves, but the amount you get thrown around gets considerable reduced if you don't just move around not taking into account the ele's position.

[Ganolyn]

Banishing is no longer based on the crit range. The Banish effect just goes off on a confirmed natural 20, so the crit range of a weapon doesn't matter any more. This was one of the many u9 changes. A Banisher also does 4d6 bane damage to extraplanar creatures.

Ahh, yes, I forgot about the crit range thing. No wonder my melee weapons were doing so poorly.




Some sort of either high DPS ranged weapon (Axiomatic/Anarchic of Greater Elemental Bane, Banishing of <something>) and room to kite, or some CC oriented ranged weapon like a Paralyzer to keep them in place.

I thought elementals were true neutral so wouldn't that be true law/true chaos?

[Sarisa]

I thought elementals were true neutral so wouldn't that be true law/true chaos?

You're right.

[hit_fido]

... or some CC oriented ranged weapon like a Paralyzer to keep them in place. This is painful and rough on a melee spec'ed character without Ranger levels.

A ranged paralyzer could help, but just to note - paralyzed air elemental still throws/knocks down so melee paralyzer strategy is not helpful (at least in my experience so far). This change would have been more interesting (or less frustrating) if a paralyzed elemental was fully "stopped" for the time, presenting some more tactical choice of what the best weapon for the encounter is...



But it can be avoided as long as you don't get too close to them (as I said, it is possible to get into melee range without getting into knockback effect range), although they'll sometimes move closer themselves, but the amount you get thrown around gets considerable reduced if you don't just move around not taking into account the ele's position.

I haven't been able to find this range, does it require a two-hander? Not having success with one handers, and multiple air elemental situations make it quite difficult to find an optimal position against a single elemental at a time.

[Rawel_San]

My issue with the ellies is actually neither the knockdown effect nor the fling you like crazy effect (even though
both are INCREDIBLY irritating and I strongly believe the flinging effect should have a save or at least have to
be an activated effect on the part of the air ellie), but the undispelable slow effect from gust that AGAIN fom
doesn't protect against. As it is the number of things in game that fom actually works on has gone to close
to zero. Most remaining things now are slippery surfaces with the occasional actual slow spell and hold person/
monster being the only holdouts.

[Shade]

I actaully find these easier to solo on my bbn then my sorc..

Air elems are quite cheap and annoying, but you can still power thru them.

Espeically on picture portals.. Bring the kobold along, pop a quad damage, and anihilate the whole room in seconds!

Really only rushmoor starts wit an air elem anyways.. Ugg you just dps him fast enough and he doesnt get any. Kobold doesn't start with one if ur solo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EZonOMagj0&hd=1
2 fire, 1 water. You can do what I did and go insane dps his face off.. Or kill the water and hope its not replaced with air, as that disables his regen.

Rushmoor is quite hard cuz of the elem.. But bring the kobold, quad dmg, murder it.. then get rushmoor.
In moving targets with no kobolds: Well yea your mostly screwed.. Put up an lfm, get some noob caster to dance it for it.. its an mmo after all.

[Diyon]

I haven't been able to find this range, does it require a two-hander? Not having success with one handers, and multiple air elemental situations make it quite difficult to find an optimal position against a single elemental at a time.

It might. Something else I've found (at least on my staff) is that if you move side to side with little steps, your reach seems a bit better. I recall having to do this to hit fire elementals in SoS when they are standing over the lava but not quite close enough.

[Shade]

My issue with the ellies is actually neither the knockdown effect nor the fling you like crazy effect (even though
both are INCREDIBLY irritating and I strongly believe the flinging effect should have a save or at least have to
be an activated effect on the part of the air ellie), but the undispelable slow effect from gust that AGAIN fom
doesn't protect against..

yea I agree..

The no-save gust of wind they added is stupidly broken and cheap.. The player verison of the spell DOES have a save, so it makes no sense that theirs does not.

[Chai]

Ignore the air elementals if they give you problems. Make sure you have fire resist and stoneskin, and you arent currently experiencing dungeon alert. Open the door on the right and jump through the trapped hallways toward the next few bosses. They will likely die to the traps. If they dont, they wont likely be near you when fighting the boss that is down that way, so run them BACK through the traps to get back to the same room they spawned in and open the next of the three doors to get to the next boss(es).

[soloist12]

I did try to ignore him, but it was hard to dps the boss with the air elemental frequently zerging into me every 10-15 seconds.

I should have mentioned i'm a 20 TR 1 assassin rogue with 36 dex. You'd think being one of the most agile/mobile classes in the game (theoretically/stat wise) would give you a bit of an edge against these. I'm not sure why the knockback or the gust doesn't seem to have a save? Either dex or reflex makes sense to me....

Additionally, my archery, even with a banisher, since i'm melee feated, would most likely take longer than my aggravating melee attempts to kill it. :(

The thing is, i have a handle on the entire instance otherwise. I'm in no danger of dying, have a couple tier 3 GS items. But that **** air elemental was something else. More annoying than anything. Nothing ****es you off like popping a haste boost to lay into that boss and the air elemental charging right to you, knocking you down, then you balance check, get up, gusted away a bit and you're snared now in getting back to the boss and risking the air charghing you again with no ability to evade it swiftly.

Now add onto this a timer you're racing against, even after that first boss drops, and the only real solution is to run from this thing. I could be in full GS and a few epic items and i'd still run away. I'd estimate the air ele to have roughly 1500-2000 hp on level 20 rushmore: moving targets. Just not feasible to spend the precious time you have on it as a melee that can't obtain sneak attacks on it.

TLDR: Please add a save to the kb/gust effects so we can atleast aquire gear to help vs. these things. :(

[Jaid314]

try a dancing trap?

[Metaljaw]

Ranging them with a Paralyzing Bow (assuming they are low enough CR for that to work) is the only way I have found to easily deal with them.

I've found a fireball to the face works well... oh wait you are melee. Sorry about that.

[MrChipinator]

I agree that melees get the short-side of the dice when it comes to this game, recently tried going up against an air ele on my monk, took me darn near 3 minutes to kill it.


'course that may be because I'm a total gimp. :P