Rgr/Art

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Horrible build atually... but I'm going to ask some advice about it anyway. :p

Ok... I'm an alt-a-holic, and I love Rgrs.
I have made alts to (eventually) be Rgr11/***9 of every class combo. And I want to do a Rgr11/Art9 build.

I chose Dwarf for flavor. Cause a crossbow using Dwarf seems apropriate to me.
Plus Dwarves are suppose to be crafters of powerful magic weapons.
And a Dwarven Waraxe makes a good single weapon to use with a rune arm.

Anyway, the Rgr/Art seemed the answer to my desire for a crossbow using Dwarf Rgr.

But.... it's actually a horrible combination.
And I don't know what stats to make him with. Which is actually my question.
(took me long enough to get to the point. :D )

And what feats? Rgrs get all the good ranged feats...but actually, so do artificers! So there isn't really a synergy about the two classes IMO.

I just read a thread about Rune arm damage, and it got me thinking that maybe I should make an Int based Rgr/Art.

I could use the spell for Int damage. Take Insightful Ref feat.
And take enhancents to beef up Rune Arm damage.

Originally, I was not going to put more than 6 points into Int. And just use Art spells for buffing.
But when I looked closer at Rune Arms I am thinking that max Int might be the way to go on a build like this.

What do people think?

I have tons of alts... lvl up slowly. This char may never make it to end game anyway.
But looking for suggestions on how to make one as fun as possible.

Thx.

[grodon9999]

I'm levelling up a caster right now and my leveling partner is a Arti/ranger splash. he's going 12 ranger in the end for all the feats and he wants the ranger PLs so he can go back into being an arti.

This thing DOMINATED low-level content.

This thing hit a wall at level 10 and I'd say is borderline gimped. We're doing elite runs only and with the increased HP he can pew-pew-pew all day and even with an icy-burst WOP it takes him forever to kill things. In longer quests where i can't finger everything without drinking pots I told him we can't 2-man stuff any more.

The damage output will be garbage and it won't have the cool buffs that a pure/mostly arti can bring to a party at cap. This thing is a pike-machine.

[karl_k0ch]

Going int-based is a reasonable thing. Note that you can only choose one of insightful strikes and insightful damage for your crossbow. This means that you'd probably go with a decent Dex-score so you can get the damage bonus.



I'm levelling up a caster right now and my leveling partner is a Arti/ranger splash. he's going 12 ranger in the end for all the feats and he wants the ranger PLs so he can go back into being an arti.

What does 12 ranger give you what's not included in 11 ranger? Tempest II? Future-proofness for DWS II? Anything else entirely?

[grodon9999]

What does 12 ranger give you what's not included in 11 ranger? Tempest II? Future-proofness for DWS II? Anything else entirely?

I'm not entirely sure, but he took 1 monk level so he could use handwraps against skellies, 7 Arti gives something, left over went to ranger I guess.

I'm mean it's horribly gimped.

[Aeolwind]

I'm giving it a run myself Talon

6 Arti -> 11 Ranger -> I'll make the rest up later cause I'm gonna TR.

I virtually dumped Int, went Dex/Str on a 36 pt build. Half Elf for Rogue Dil.

Fusillade, Manyshot, 2wf feats, evasion.

This might be terrible, but I'll be rolling in the aisles. I plan on LR'ing there in the middle at some point to fix feats though.

[Aeolwind]

I'm not entirely sure, but he took 1 monk level so he could use handwraps against skellies, 7 Arti gives something, left over went to ranger I guess.

I'm mean it's horribly gimped.

lol, the piking pain I'll be able to deliver to my buddies with this....I honestly can't wait hahah.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I'm giving it a run myself Talon

6 Arti -> 11 Ranger -> I'll make the rest up later cause I'm gonna TR.

I virtually dumped Int, went Dex/Str on a 36 pt build. Half Elf for Rogue Dil.

Fusillade, Manyshot, 2wf feats, evasion.

This might be terrible, but I'll be rolling in the aisles. I plan on LR'ing there in the middle at some point to fix feats though.

I actually have already made mine...but I'm starting to reconsider and thinking about a reroll before I devote too much time to her. ( I didn't have an active female Dwarf char, so she also filled that role for me. :p )

I put six build points into Str, Dex, Con, and Int and Cha. and put the last 2 into Wis.
I was going to put lvl ups in Dex, for to-hit with the crossbow.

I was going to disregard any spells with DCs. And just use Arty buffs.

But looking at Rune Arms a little closer, I am starting to think there might be a better way to make this build. (and that I would still enjoy. ;) )

I haven't planned out the feats yet, but Rgr gives almost every ranged feat I could want. So maybe I could use the Arty feats for something more useful then the usual method of using Arty feats for ranged feats....

[Talon_Moonshadow]

How does Healing Amp stuff effect repair spells?

And if it effects them, does it work normally on half fleshy/contruct Arties?

[Talon_Moonshadow]

This is a feat-heavy build. So it seems there is some potential to get creative.

I think Augment Summons won't be very useful though. (weak pet)

And can't decide about Construct Essense...

[Darkrok]

A few thoughts.

1) Rune arms won't be that good on this build as their damage scales with artificer levels.
2) Healing amp has no effect on repair spells.
3) The additional damage from your rune arms won't get close to your additional damage from the full twf line if you have a good to maxed strength.

If you're set on doing this I would seriously consider dumping the rune arms entirely or just using them situationally. I would therefore dump dex and play this guy as a melee. I'd max out your strength and just play it like a Tempest Ranger that happens to have amazing UMD and some nice group buffs. I wouldn't want to play the toon as I don't see a lot of synergy here but if you do play it that's the route I would go. I just don't see enough points of convergence to make this a part-time pew pew pew ranger (a la the 12ran/6xxx/2yyy or the 12mnk/6rng/2xxx builds) since those part-time pew pew pew use str + dex while your arti would want int + dex.

[dunklezhan]

This is a feat-heavy build. So it seems there is some potential to get creative.

I think Augment Summons won't be very useful though. (weak pet)

And can't decide about Construct Essense...

I still maintain that construct essence is a trap, at least on a pure arti with enough UMD as well as the CL boosts for self healing via wands & pots. On a ranger that could be doubly true - a ranger can already use normal healing via their own spells or wands/pots. With 6 arti you're maybe going to get repair serious which will go off for half effectiveness, and your cure serious will be equally adversely affected. I just don't see the benefit and will be steering well clear of construct essence until or unless they bring out an enhancement line, PrE or Imp ConEss feat that tips you over into 'majority' construct.

Also - unless you plan on swapping out runearm and xbow when you get to melee range are the TWF feats really benefiting you that much? There's nothing stopping you doing that of course but runearms come with other effects (and can be crafted onto and can have the masterwork shard applied to them to keep the ML down) which can be useful in addition to the extra damage they provide. 6 levels of ranger for multishot, 6 levels of arti for fusilade, and 8 levels of fighter might go further - it would let you use Dwarven Axe as standard without an extra feat, and you might even have enough room for a few 2HF feats as well as finishing off your ranged feats.

[grodon9999]

lol, the piking pain I'll be able to deliver to my buddies with this....I honestly can't wait hahah.

I mean it's not horrible in groups and can get traps and stuff which are important to low/mid level elites. I just takes SO long to kill things once the HP starts getting up there. The Ogres in Elite Ghola Fan have over 700 HP, that's a LOT of Pew-Pew-Pew in a 2-man group without a lot of shrines.

[Darkrok]

This is a feat-heavy build. So it seems there is some potential to get creative.

I think Augment Summons won't be very useful though. (weak pet)

And can't decide about Construct Essense...

IMHO Construct Essence is a trap - especially on a toon that can get a bit of healing amp.

Arti's are masters of scroll/wand healing. They're simply the best in the game at it and it's not even close. Now wand/scrolls obviously don't compare to a well-placed quickened reconstruct. But they don't ding your blue bar and the wands can't be interrupted. If I'm in dire straights I'll pop a wand followed immediately by a heal scroll. Also, there's always a quickened cure serious admixture once you get handy with the targeting and it has the bonus of hitting the rest of your group too.

I'm playing a Human arti w/ the making dragonmarks atm for crafting purposes. I'm very tempted to take Construct Essence - those are essentially no-cost self heals then. I still don't know if I can justify it as you're basically lowering the top heal/repair you can get from a scroll and paying a feat to do it. Yes, you get more options. Yes, reconstruct is a heck of a blue-bar heal. But the end result is that you scroll-heal/repair yourself for less than you did before and scrolls/wands are where you want most of your healing to come from.

[dunklezhan]

If you're set on doing this I would seriously consider dumping the rune arms entirely or just using them situationally. I would therefore dump dex and play this guy as a melee. I'd max out your strength and just play it like a Tempest Ranger that happens to have amazing UMD and some nice group buffs. I wouldn't want to play the toon as I don't see a lot of synergy here but if you do play it that's the route I would go. I just don't see enough points of convergence to make this a part-time pew pew pew ranger (a la the 12ran/6xxx/2yyy or the 12mnk/6rng/2xxx builds) since those part-time pew pew pew use str + dex while your arti would want int + dex.

Also this. :)

[Talon_Moonshadow]

IMHO Construct Essence is a trap - especially on a toon that can get a bit of healing amp.

Arti's are masters of scroll/wand healing. They're simply the best in the game at it and it's not even close. Now wand/scrolls obviously don't compare to a well-placed quickened reconstruct. But they don't ding your blue bar and the wands can't be interrupted. If I'm in dire straights I'll pop a wand followed immediately by a heal scroll. Also, there's always a quickened cure serious admixture once you get handy with the targeting and it has the bonus of hitting the rest of your group too.

I'm playing a Human arti w/ the making dragonmarks atm for crafting purposes. I'm very tempted to take Construct Essence - those are essentially no-cost self heals then. I still don't know if I can justify it as you're basically lowering the top heal/repair you can get from a scroll and paying a feat to do it. Yes, you get more options. Yes, reconstruct is a heck of a blue-bar heal. But the end result is that you scroll-heal/repair yourself for less than you did before and scrolls/wands are where you want most of your healing to come from.

I took Constuct Essense on my pure Human (Canith ;) ) arty.
But there is a good chance I will switch it out when I can get my UMD high enough to reliably use Heal scrolls.

What I find so far (Art10) is that I use most of my SP on self and dog repairs right now.

[unbongwah]

And I want to do a Rgr11/Art9 build.
What about rgr 12 / arty 8 and go DWS II when it comes out? You lose out on lvl 4 arty spells, but I don't see any must-haves on the list.

For stats I think you'd want to keep STR, DEX, and INT relatively balanced, since they all add to your to-hit and/or dmg for melee & ranged. [Does Insightful Dmg affect both weapons if you're dual-wielding? Never tested it before.]

You get 9 feats (7 regular, 2 arty): I'm thinking Toughness, DWS pre-reqs (PBS, WF Ranged), Imp Crit Ranged & Slash, Power Atk, with 3 left over for whatever.

Or do an arty variant on my DW Mechanic: something like rgr 6 / arty 12 / monk 2 maybe?

[Darkrok]

What about rgr 12 / arty 8 and go DWS II when it comes out? You lose out on lvl 4 arty spells, but I don't see any must-haves on the list.

For stats I think you'd want to keep STR, DEX, and INT relatively balanced, since they all add to your to-hit and/or dmg for melee & ranged. [Does Insightful Dmg affect both weapons if you're dual-wielding? Never tested it before.]

You get 9 feats (7 regular, 2 arty): I'm thinking Toughness, DWS pre-reqs (PBS, WF Ranged), Imp Crit Ranged & Slash, Power Atk, with 3 left over for whatever.

Or do an arty variant on my DW Mechanic: something like rgr 6 / arty 12 / monk 2 maybe?

First of all, all the weapon buffs are main-hand only iirc.

Second, I like 6 ranger a lot better with these builds than 11 ranger. I'd like 16 arti even better - 2 level 16 infusions and then if you want to splash a bit of ranger you could go 2 levels there and 2 levels monk/rogue. At that point though why not just stay pure?

[wax_on_wax_off]

This build idea screams DWSII to me. It's not out yet but it's slated for the next round of PrE releases (TM). 12 ranger /7-8 artificer/0-1x seems a perfect combintion for a pure ranged character.