Star Wars The Old Republic

[extraocular]

nm

[Talon_Oakenleaf]

Play both? Are you already premium and if so how much of the game do you own. If you like DDO i say stick with it. I have not tried SWTOR yet but i heard it had great graphics but some parts reminded players of WOW. Good luck in your choice.

[AZgreentea]

Play both? Are you already premium and if so how much of the game do you own. If you like DDO i say stick with it. I have not tried SWTOR yet but i heard it had great graphics but some parts reminded players of WOW. Good luck in your choice.
Exactly. DDO is F2P. Go play SWTOR if you want too and if you hate it you can always come back.

Personally I will never play another SW MMO, but thats just me.

[porq]

I've heard good things about SWTOR from some former friends here on ddo. Can't really give any specifics since I don't play it myself, but from the sounds of it it isn't a bad game to spend some time with.

Another thing to consider is if you really need almost 9000 more turbine points...most adventure packs have been in the 600 range and new races/classes at 1500 or so. How long do you think you will stick with ddo that you would use 9000 points on? That's all assuming you have basically everything you want already, that may not be the case. It is true in my case, there's little reason to buy the point package as what I earn from favor eventually buys whatever new content is released.

In my opinion though, buy Skyrim! It's about 60 bucks, and it's a blast to play. Easy to get sucked in though :rolleyes:

[extraocular]

nm

[7-day_Trial_Monkey]

I've only watched some live streams on twitchtv and youtube videos and it sure doesn't look like anything I would ever play. I hope it's just poor recording, although they were 1080p, but the graphics look like 10 years ago.

[blkcat1028]

I've been playing a bit of SW: TOR during the open beta weekend. It's basically LotRO. I haven't seen anything unique or overly exciting. It has a good story line and the voice acting is impressive, but the combat is lacking and I can tell that I'll tire of it easily.

Sadly the best part I've experienced so far has been the cinematic cut scenes. They were awesome.

[Uska]

Tried beta and the weekend invites and for me it's worse than wow and i wouldn't play it even if they paid me

[Battlehawke]

You will not find a better MMO than DDO currently!!!!

[Zorth]

It is ahead of it's time and the hardware to truely make it worthwhile will not be on everyone's computer till around 2025. To truely play this game right now would cost someone 5 grand today. It is not realistic.

[t0r012]

It is ahead of it's time and the hardware to truely make it worthwhile will not be on everyone's computer till around 2025. To truely play this game right now would cost someone 5 grand today. It is not realistic.

Say what?
I been plaing this beta weekend and have the graphics maxed at 1080.

DDO has nothing to fear or learn from swtor. Crappy cookie cutter classes with next to no choice, limited race choices that don't even matter and "might as well watch paint dry" combat.

Voice acting is good and the cinematics are pretty but that is it. And last time I checked I can get those better in a movie. I dont play a game for the cut scenes and acting that is what Netflix is for.

[Failedlegend]

I could write out a giant explanation of whats wrong with it but I'll keep it simple

Bioware + KOTOR = Win + MMO = Major Fail

IOW If it was just KOTOR 3 it probably would have been awesome but trying to shoehorn it in the MMO genre killed it.

Sidenote: If you love WoW but want your story to be a bit more nourishing and would rather play a Tank with a lightsaber instead of a hammer you MIGHT like SWTOR otherwise stick to whatever your playing now.

[Symar-FangofLloth]

I'm playing in beta weekend.

Story is fun, dialogue choices are nice, cutscenes range from okay to amazing.

Combat is same-old same-old but with no auto-attack. Smugglers and Agents have the 'Cover' gimmick that basically limits their usefulness unless they find a good spot to hide, or plant themselves crouching in the open.

Graphics are meh, although the animations are generally well done.

There doesn't appear to be any real cosmetic options beyond your head and the color of your lasers/lightsaber. Oh, and what your NPC companions look like, but you choose from a couple presets for them.

Speaking of the NPC companions, I managed to get my first one, and it feels like some awkward combination of KOTOR and an MMO, seeing them follow people around everywhere. I did not try grouping with one, and haven't gotten to any instances, so I don't know what happens with them there.

Class customization is zero. You pick one of two trees at level 10ish, and that's it. (Edit for clarity. There are talent trees that unlock when you pick your specialization. That's still not much in the way of customization though.)

[Failedlegend]

Speaking of the NPC companions, I managed to get my first one, and it feels like some awkward combination of KOTOR and an MMO, seeing them follow people around everywhere. I did not try grouping with one, and haven't gotten to any instances, so I don't know what happens with them there.

This is a great example of why shoehorning KOTOR into an MMO was a stupid idea.


As a Sith Inquisitor you first companion is some crazy powerful sith resistant tank guy which is AWESOME until you walk back outside and see 50 other sith inquisitors running around with him. It really kills the immersion which IMHO was a huge part of what made KOTOR awesome

[PresentTense]

I've been playing SWTOR all weekend, and I have to say, I'm enjoying it more than I've been enjoying DDO lately. That probably has more to do with it being new and shiny and me needing a break from DDO than it does with any natural superiority, but here's my take so far:

Pros:
The story. Is it the next work of Shakespeare? No, but you will get sucked into the storylines, and you'll never just click on the options as fast as you can to get the quest. The voice acting is well done, even when the dialogue itself is hokey or cliche. And every class has a different intro - there are four starting planets, and even the classes that share a planet have different plot quests.
The character options. This is all a matter of perspective. Sure, you cold feasibly argue that there are only four classes - a lightsaber user, a force user, light ranged dps and heavy ranged dps, but there's so much more. Splitting light side/dark side brings it to eight, and splitting advanced classes brings it to 16. It them splits again, with three skill trees for each advanced class. A bounty hunter, for example, can be ranged dps, melee dps, heal spec or a tank, depending on what path you take with your advanced class and skill points.
The companions. Not only are they useful - T7 is an amazing tank, for example - but you can send them to do tasks for you even when they're not in your party. There's no need to waste time searching for valuable relics for hours on end if you can have your companions do the grinding for you.
Visual customization Lots of options for building your character, including race - there are no gameplay effects of being a Twilek or a Sith pureblood, so you can go with what looks like fun to you. Oh, and all your gear is visible - are those new boots white? Are those gloves brown? Not only can you see what they look like in your inventory, you can see what they look like when you equip them.

Cons:
The combat system. One of the greatest things about DDO is the active combat system. In SWTOR, I can't even swing my weapons at the air when there isn't an enemy around. Selecting each enemy will take some getting used to again.
The graphics. Does it look brand new? No, not really. But it does look better than DDO, and I don't think it's fair to compare it to something like Skyrim - they need to appeal to a wide audience with a wide range of machines.
The wait. Even with several dozen servers, things are a little backed up, and there generally are queues. This may or may not change before it goes live.

All in all, I'm looking forward to the launch. Oh, and for the people complaining about seeing everyone's companion in the public areas, I don't think it's any more jarring than seeing 18 million half-orcs in low-level quests as soon as the race launched. Of course there are lots of people in the same area of the game at the same stage of character development - they're all just getting started. It'll thin out after the launch as the bulk of the server population moves up through the levels at different paces.

[Aaxeyu]

Excited about SWTOR?
Try WoW or Rift while you wait. It's all the same game in different settings.

[Failedlegend]

The main issue with the game is Immersion...Half the reason KOTOR was great was the fact that it pulled you in you start to feel like your the character instead of your controlling him, you care for your allies (or you feel like YOUR dominating them until they outlived their usefullness) shoehorning this into the MMO genre killed that. When I got my first companion The legendary force resistant assassin Dashade it's importance was killed by the 30 or so other people wandering around with this so called "Legendary" assassin.

Imagine if Skyrim was an MMO....not so cool being the Dovahkiin when there's 4000 others.

As far as classes yes there is only four...each class pn each side (Republic & Empire) plays the same you have like you said a lightsaber user, a force user, light ranged dps and heavy ranged dps...those "Skill Trees" and "Specializations" don't make more classes its just means they have some slight differences otherwise you could argue DDO has over 1000 classes.

There is NO visual customization (beyond char creation) as despite the fact that your avatar changes with every piece of equipment there's no way to edit that at all your stuck with whatever your wearing.


The combat system...I'm sorry but this is a big part of the game and it sucks...its reason enough to forget about the game

Queue's are stupid I understood them for stress tests but Bioware is actually expecting them to stay after official launch that's unacceptable...at least beyond a few minutes...ie. not a bloody hour+

Graphics wise...well I personally don't really care all that much but honestly this is a brand new game it should have better graphics than DDO which is what about 5/6 years old now (and no I don't see how their better than DDO at hgih settings I'd say their about on par...and personally I think Ebberon is far more visually pleasing)

Ah the story/voice acting..nothing to say here...it's awesome if all of the above was better this would be worth it....too bad there's no immersion.

So yeah nothing to see here move along, move along.

[thwart]

I played SWTOR some this weekend. I have to say I was disappointed. It is not even close to DDO. I found SWTOR to be very linear to the point of boredom. The combat system is not fun. The only thing I liked was the story, the cut-aways and the voice acting.

Everytime I did a quest, there were dozens of the exact same character as mine, heading for the quest. It made the game seem a little silly.

On the plus side, my 8 year old son loves the game because it is Star Wars.

[Thrudh]

there are no gameplay effects of being a Twilek or a Sith pureblood, so you can go with what looks like fun to you.

I would count that as a negative...

From the friends I've talked to, character customization sounds extremely weak...

But the dialogue and cut-scenes sound awesome.

I would have loved KOTOR3... I'll try SWTOR out for a little bit as a diversion

[vilhazarog]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this, but the main reason I won't be playing is that the cost is outrageous, especially for someone like me. If I'm lucky I get maybe 6 hours a week of gaming time. So I happily plunked down $60 for Skyrim, I can easily get 100 hours of out that, a bit of math sees me (if I play it exclusively) playing that game for at least 4 months. If I play other stuff as well then I can be playing Skyrim out until June or maybe even longer, and the cost stays the same. Compare that to SWTOR where its $60 for the first month, then $78 for another six months.... and if you want to keep going after that, even more. No thanks. I love everything Star Wars, but I'd rather spend my money on a bunch of other games.

Compared to DDO it's no contest, two years, $100.

[Delt]

Haters gonna hate.

Good game, I'll pick it up but SWTOR is essentially a single player game with some multiplayer diversions (Flashpoints, pvp). It might have made a better F2P game but Bioware will get at least $60 from, so I can see how my trooper story ends. If they want more money, they better add a LOT of new content.

[Hendrik]

Excited about SWTOR?
Try WoW or Rift while you wait. It's all the same game in different settings.

Truth!

It is just another WoW clone with a Star Wars skin on it.

Just as big of a Star Wars nerd as the next guy, loved Star Wars Galaxies until SoE killed it with NGE. I had high hopes to adventure in one of my favorite settings of all time, but after actually TRYING to enjoy it, I found myself unable to.

DDO combat and customization spoiled me.

Won't find me over there at all and feel bad for those that are gonna spend so much money on it to only come back here when they themselves realize the same thing.

[Uska]

Haters gonna hate.

Good game, I'll pick it up but SWTOR is essentially a single player game with some multiplayer diversions (Flashpoints, pvp). It might have made a better F2P game but Bioware will get at least $60 from, so I can see how my trooper story ends. If they want more money, they better add a LOT of new content.

If it had been the next KOTOR it might have been good but as a MMO it is extremely lacking.

[DragonKiller]

Personally I'm giving SW:TOR a try. I like the game play and story line. Honestly it's the best MMO besides DDO that I've tried.

Plain out flat, I'm bored to death with DDO and all the grind they've added has just made it worse. So at least TOR will be a diversion for a few months/years until either DDO:2, they make leveling fun again or add epic levels or something.

Not leaving DDO thanks to the FTP/Premium setup, which is the good thing about it :D

[Aaxeyu]

Truth!

It is just another WoW clone with a Star Wars skin on it.

Just as big of a Star Wars nerd as the next guy, loved Star Wars Galaxies until SoE killed it with NGE. I had high hopes to adventure in one of my favorite settings of all time, but after actually TRYING to enjoy it, I found myself unable to.

DDO combat and customization spoiled me.

Won't find me over there at all and feel bad for those that are gonna spend so much money on it to only come back here when they themselves realize the same thing.

Yeah, ddo spoiled me in the same ways.

It's funny to read various review comments and look at how many people who goes on about how SWTOR is either "completely different from WOW" or "Yeah, it's very similar to WoW, but it's an MMO and this is how all MMOs are".
The poor guys don't know any better.

[Symar-FangofLloth]

Good game, I'll pick it up but SWTOR is essentially a single player game with some multiplayer diversions (Flashpoints, pvp).

Sure, I'd look at it that way, if there wasn't an initial purchase plus a monthly fee.

I'll pay one or the other, but not both. And not on any game ever again.

[Nexx]

Just finishd my turn of beta testing. I really enjoyed it. Made it to lvl 7 and have my light saber! :D Can't wait for final release date.

[Jay203]

after hearing about and watching on youtube about the gameplay, i'm pretty sure it's not going to be a game i'll like
i'm just going to wait out for Diablo 3, Guildwars 2, and Borderlands 2 :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Nexx]

after hearing about and watching on youtube about the gameplay, i'm pretty sure it's not going to be a game i'll like
i'm just going to wait out for Diablo 3, Guildwars 2, and Borderlands 2 :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:



You can actually have a saber attack on hotkey 1 and right click the mouse over and over.. it's pretty much like how ddo was back in the day, lol...

I enjoyed it, but I am also looking forward to D3 & Guildwars 2 as well. :D

[griffin_230]

Think people thinking about SW:TOR are really gonna need a very good PC for the game if they don't want a lagfest. There's a lot of big open areas where everyone from the universe is running around with their own NPC Companions (basically personal hirelings) engaged in large firefights.

Having to hear someone's NPC buddy every 6 secsonds or so claiming how imba he is or how he's beating your kill count does get on the nerves quite quickly.

[EdsanDarkbane]

TOR is an excellent game. I found myself unable to tear away from it...i havent had that much fn since i first started playing DDO.
The community over there is great.

I did play a flashpoint, the coruscant one..it was pretty epic. long quest with 4 ppl. Heroics. The group dialogue is so much fun. I found myself looking for a group for regular quests (normally tackled solo)just so we could up our social points and truely that is a great mechanic.

SUch a well done game...the customization is there i know there are nay sayers here on the forums...but tor will probably require rig upgrades for some of the player base here so some folks will be upset at the money thing...

TOR is a gr8 game...my 2 credits

[FunFooFurat]

Voice overs it has...mmmhmmhmm. Much voice acting. But a good game...this does not make, hmm?

Little character customization does TOR possess. Much the same, will two Jedi be. Mmmmmm...most distressing, this is.

Combat, you ask? Bleh. Much of WoW do I sense...much hot-key mashing...much standing in front of enemies, relentlessly hacking the same button combination...much boredom, yes?

extraocular..........there is......another.......D&D...M....M........O.........

[Cinderbeard]

Been playing the open beta for a few days now and having a lot of fun.

I Was looking forward to it for a long time now being a bit of a Star Wars geek.
DDO has los a lot of his luster to me lately too.

The graphics are good, not excellent, but better then any other MMO I've played. Ofcourse you can't compare it to RPGs like Skyrim.
Especially the planets and cities are excellent, very vibrant and alive.

Animations could use a bit of work, bit clunky sometimes, but I see this improving post launch.

Character generation is pretty basic. Not a lot of options like AoC for example, but I was able to make characters I liked. Some room for improvement here.

Questing is a lot of fun due to the excellent Bioware style storytelling like KOTOR. Excellent story and voice acting, very immersive.
Although it's the usual FedEx stuff, bring this there, kill those over here etc. the quests actualy play like they have a purpose. Especially the class stories, I kept playing to know what would happen next.
I've done The Black Talon flashpoint a few times and it was a blast. Group conversation is pretty hilarious sometimes. I can see this getting a bit boring after intensive replay though due all the conversations going on.

Sound and music is absolutely stunning. It really captures the Star Wars feel.

Companions are fun. They offer plot hooks and assistance while questing. You can also send em on gathering missions and do your crafting. No more lost hours in a dull crafting house somwhere. IA is pretty good, better then the hirelings I got used to.

Itemisation is well done. You can pick up a piece of gear and fit it with modifications. You can keep modding it so it can stay usefull for a while if you like the look of it.

I would definatly recommend to give it a ty. It has me hooked so far.

[Zippo]

Been playing the open beta for a few days now and having a lot of fun.

I Was looking forward to it for a long time now being a bit of a Star Wars geek.
DDO has los a lot of his luster to me lately too.

The graphics are good, not excellent, but better then any other MMO I've played. Ofcourse you can't compare it to RPGs like Skyrim.
Especially the planets and cities are excellent, very vibrant and alive.

Animations could use a bit of work, bit clunky sometimes, but I see this improving post launch.

Character generation is pretty basic. Not a lot of options like AoC for example, but I was able to make characters I liked. Some room for improvement here.

Questing is a lot of fun due to the excellent Bioware style storytelling like KOTOR. Excellent story and voice acting, very immersive.
Although it's the usual FedEx stuff, bring this there, kill those over here etc. the quests actualy play like they have a purpose. Especially the class stories, I kept playing to know what would happen next.
I've done The Black Talon flashpoint a few times and it was a blast. Group conversation is pretty hilarious sometimes. I can see this getting a bit boring after intensive replay though due all the conversations going on.

Sound and music is absolutely stunning. It really captures the Star Wars feel.

Companions are fun. They offer plot hooks and assistance while questing. You can also send em on gathering missions and do your crafting. No more lost hours in a dull crafting house somwhere. IA is pretty good, better then the hirelings I got used to.

Itemisation is well done. You can pick up a piece of gear and fit it with modifications. You can keep modding it so it can stay usefull for a while if you like the look of it.

I would definatly recommend to give it a ty. It has me hooked so far.

This pretty much where I'm at with it. I also did the Black Talon flashpoint. But you don't have to do it either. You can take the other transport to the planet.


Edit: for what it's worth I haven't even logged on to DDO in 2 months. Been so bored with it and the grind.

[Tirisha]

Excited about SWTOR?
Try WoW or Rift while you wait. It's all the same game in different settings.

lol you couldn't be more wrong.

To the OP:

I'll play SWTOR and DDO for different reasons.

DDO: build customization, D20 combat.

SWTOR: Story, reasonably balanced gameplay, PVP

[Galeria]

Hubs has been playing the open beta all weekend. When I ask how he likes it he says, "It's fine."

He likes it enough to buy it and run through a character for a while, but can't really say he's addicted to it. It does remind him a lot of Rift on the mechanics of the game but he's really enjoying the story.

[Aaxeyu]

lol you couldn't be more wrong.

The gameplay is the same. Taking place in space and lots of voice acting doesn't make it a completely different game.

If you like the gameplay of SWTOR, you will like the gameplay of WoW and rift etc.

[SSFWEl]

Truth!

Just as big of a Star Wars nerd as the next guy, loved Star Wars Galaxies until SoE killed it with NGE. I had high hopes to adventure in one of my favorite settings of all time, but after actually TRYING to enjoy it, I found myself unable to.

DDO combat and customization spoiled me.

Won't find me over there at all and feel bad for those that are gonna spend so much money on it to only come back here when they themselves realize the same thing.

Yes I too loved SWG until they killed it with the "new game enhancements".

DDO combat is amazing. The sheer number of possibilities, skills you can use and apply, amount of combinations etc.

All DDO needs now is a dragon rider flight simulator with dragon to dragon combat. Now THAT would be cool.

[Zippo]

The gameplay is the same. Taking place in space and lots of voice acting doesn't make it a completely different game.

If you like the gameplay of SWTOR, you will like the gameplay of WoW and rift etc.

I wouldn't say that is necessarily the case. I like SWTOR and overall the gameplay and can't stand WoW. Maybe it's just the overall feeling of the game, but a 7 day trial of WoW had me thoroughly disgusted enough to never consider it. Where the old republic had me hooked, I spent the entire weekend playing it. A weeks bed rest (and now another per my doc) well spent. Fortunately they are supposed to open the servers again this week do I'll get the chance to keep playing it some more. I've been on and off in DDO for 5 and a half years now, and quite frankly I'm bored and needed something new anyways and being a Star Wars fan this game came at the right time. Anyways, not a fan of WoW but big fan of TOR so far.

[smatt]

Looked like SWOWs to me....

It might be fun... I looked at it and instantly didnt' liek the look, or what I saw of the combat...

WoW with light sabers....

It will be popular no doubt, the name recognition, and of course there's a HUGE audience for the WoW model. Not my cup o' tea though... But it will be for many...

[Aaxeyu]

I wouldn't say that is necessarily the case. I like SWTOR and overall the gameplay and can't stand WoW. Maybe it's just the overall feeling of the game, but a 7 day trial of WoW had me thoroughly disgusted enough to never consider it. Where the old republic had me hooked, I spent the entire weekend playing it. A weeks bed rest (and now another per my doc) well spent. Fortunately they are supposed to open the servers again this week do I'll get the chance to keep playing it some more. I've been on and off in DDO for 5 and a half years now, and quite frankly I'm bored and needed something new anyways and being a Star Wars fan this game came at the right time. Anyways, not a fan of WoW but big fan of TOR so far.

Then I don't think it was the gameplay you disliked about WoW.
The core of the games are the same. It's designed to be a "traditional MMO".

[Delt]

Whenever one MMO player wants to make fun of another MMO, "WoW Clone" suffices. Requires zero thought and they can shoehorn it in with questionable logic.

The reality is SWTOR is nothing like WoW. It has skills on a button that you use in a targeted fashion...that's it. DDO is really the ONLY semi-popular MMO to deviate from this kind of system, so rather than "WoW Clone", "not DDO combat" seems a little more fitting.

SWTOR does plenty different. But the naysayers will still call it a "WoW Clone".

There is a lot to like about SWTOR. The story/va, obviously. Flashpoints are cool a least a few times each. PvP has potential and will get attention (unlike DDO). Crafting is pretty solid. Zipping around in a personal speeder or your spaceship is cool. Companions aka pets are awesome -- shame there isn't similar perma-Hirelings in DDO.

I'm still concerned about end game, but SWTOR isn't WoW and will entertain me for at least a month.

[Uska]

Been playing the open beta for a few days now and having a lot of fun.

I Was looking forward to it for a long time now being a bit of a Star Wars geek.
DDO has los a lot of his luster to me lately too.

The graphics are good, not excellent, but better then any other MMO I've played. Ofcourse you can't compare it to RPGs like Skyrim.
Especially the planets and cities are excellent, very vibrant and alive.

Animations could use a bit of work, bit clunky sometimes, but I see this improving post launch.

Character generation is pretty basic. Not a lot of options like AoC for example, but I was able to make characters I liked. Some room for improvement here.

Questing is a lot of fun due to the excellent Bioware style storytelling like KOTOR. Excellent story and voice acting, very immersive.
Although it's the usual FedEx stuff, bring this there, kill those over here etc. the quests actualy play like they have a purpose. Especially the class stories, I kept playing to know what would happen next.
I've done The Black Talon flashpoint a few times and it was a blast. Group conversation is pretty hilarious sometimes. I can see this getting a bit boring after intensive replay though due all the conversations going on.

Sound and music is absolutely stunning. It really captures the Star Wars feel.

Companions are fun. They offer plot hooks and assistance while questing. You can also send em on gathering missions and do your crafting. No more lost hours in a dull crafting house somwhere. IA is pretty good, better then the hirelings I got used to.

Itemisation is well done. You can pick up a piece of gear and fit it with modifications. You can keep modding it so it can stay usefull for a while if you like the look of it.

I would definatly recommend to give it a ty. It has me hooked so far.


I felt zero immersion due the fact that often I could see several people doing the exact same quest I was I really wanted to like this game but I cant and I didnt get the SW feel to it myself but then I really wasnt a big kotor fan and I hate the clone wars series if I was going to play a SW mmo I would play the SWG emulator but ddo has spoiled that for me. SWTOR will proably be a huge success though but not for me.

[Uska]

Whenever one MMO player wants to make fun of another MMO, "WoW Clone" suffices. Requires zero thought and they can shoehorn it in with questionable logic.

The reality is SWTOR is nothing like WoW. It has skills on a button that you use in a targeted fashion...that's it. DDO is really the ONLY semi-popular MMO to deviate from this kind of system, so rather than "WoW Clone", "not DDO combat" seems a little more fitting.

SWTOR does plenty different. But the naysayers will still call it a "WoW Clone".

There is a lot to like about SWTOR. The story/va, obviously. Flashpoints are cool a least a few times each. PvP has potential and will get attention (unlike DDO). Crafting is pretty solid. Zipping around in a personal speeder or your spaceship is cool. Companions aka pets are awesome -- shame there isn't similar perma-Hirelings in DDO.

I'm still concerned about end game, but SWTOR isn't WoW and will entertain me for at least a month.

OH I think its a lot like WoW but then so are most of the other MMO's out there the crafting is pretty cool and yeah pvp isnt bad but it just didnt seem like SW to me not sure why. But it will be a huge success I think but I dont think its a WoW killer though heck I dont think it will really hurt ddo much long term.

[Zippo]

I felt zero immersion due the fact that often I could see several people doing the exact same quest I was I really wanted to like this game but I cant and I didnt get the SW feel to it myself but then I really wasnt a big kotor fan and I hate the clone wars series if I was going to play a SW mmo I would play the SWG emulator but ddo has spoiled that for me. SWTOR will proably be a huge success though but not for me.

I think where Bioware did good and it helps a lot is the semi-instancing. There are a lot of open areas to be had, explore, and kill in. But the important story based and some of the non-story lined quests bring you into instanced areas where you don't have to worry about some random crank coming along and ruining it for you. You can go it alone, with your companion, or a party and it'll be just you/your party and not have to worry about it. The community over there has been pretty good too from what I've seen so far.

The party video sequences take a little getting used too but even those work into a reward system too. I can't answer for anyone else but I see enough that is completely different from WoW (and I know it wasn't you saying that, I'm just talking in general now) that I don't see it as a clone. And as I've said before I have liked TOR so far and couldn't stand WoW.

[Aaxeyu]

Yes that is true, but your argument tends to hinge on the combat and quest system almost exclusively. Which is why I said earlier I hated WoW's but TOR I don't mind. I think there is enough differences to make it a different system.

Well, the combat is the most important aspect the game. If you don't like how the combat works the game won't last very long.

[Cyr]

Well, the combat is the most important aspect the game. If you don't like how the combat works the game won't last very long.

The most important part of a game is often the part which is most compelling for that particular game.

In DDO it clearly is the combat because that rocks. That is not true of every game which may have other elements to it that are done better then DDO and worse combat (like LOTRO for example).

A truly compelling game would have the best of elements which make different games compelling. A few games have tried this recently, but failed (darkfall being one of the biggest spectacular failures).

[Aaxeyu]

The most important part of a game is often the part which is most compelling for that particular game.

I'd rather say it's what you spend most time doing. Like DDO and WoW, SWTOR is an action game. There is bound to be combat in pretty much everything you do ingame. Cinematics and voice acting can only keep you distraced for so long.

[griffin_230]

It was pretty funny when some WoW players started making gnome jokes in the general chat during the SW beta weekend: "Are there gnomes in this game ?", "I wanna make a gnome deathknight!", "Wasn't Yoda a gnome Jedi ?", "No, Yoda was for the horde, he was a goblin!"

Seemed like there were a lot of WoW players checking up on SW. There was one WoW fanboy who was slagging off the game but he got shouted down from several people.

Some comments from my own beta testing weekend:

-The NPC companion you're given is kinda OP. He was easily taking out loads of mobs without my help. The game tries to get you to bond with him and you can also gear him up too. Every time I was given a choice in a cutscene and I chose the "peaceful" option, he wasn't impressed. Probably thinks I'm a wuss :)

-He's pretty useful though. You can get him to craft items, vendor your trash items for you and get him to go off on missions to gather mats. His animation can spaz out though, making him look hyperactive when you just want him to stand still.

-Travelling around such large environments isn't too bad. You get a sprint ability after a while and can bind to several locations. You can teleport to any of your bound locations every 30 mins. Or you can pay and take a taxi to where you want to go.

-Dying didn't seem to heavily penalise you. You can opt to get revived at the spot where you died (the more you use this the longer you have to wait next time) or choose to get revived at the medical facility at your zone (this seems to reset the timer for the 1st option).

-This game is very solo-friendly. I managed to solo some heroics and the 1st Flashpoint, The Esseles, with my NPC companion.

-After you finish your class quest in your capital, you get a space ship. Tried a couple of the Space Combat missions and the ones I tried were basically "On Rails" shooters. Had to retry a few times for the timed Space Station mission where you have to shoot X no. of Antennaes, Y no. of shields, Z no. of Turrets etc.

-For a game that's still in beta, it's surprisingly stable. I only experienced a few crashes or being stuck and unable to move a few times over a longish period. The presentation is very slick and polished, with nice maps, fonts and objective icons, making it fairly easy to see where you have to go to complete quests.

-There is a ton of voice acting and while they are good, it may wear thin if you just want to get on with a quest.

-The AI of the mobs isn't that great. They tend to just stand still in front of you while you dps them down. Think only the major bosses seemed to move about.

-The only thing I'm curious about is the endgame content. In WoW, there is a ton of good endgame content as you'd expect by now and I was curious how SW compared, but obviously the weekend beta testers wouldnt have had toons that were high enough to test that out.

I asked in general chat what people thought of the game and if they thought it was a WoW killer. Pretty much a positive response from everyone.

If you like WoW, you should like this game. If you like Star Wars, you will LOVE this game. SW may be one of the newer mmos, but it doesn't really deviate from the traditional mmo template too much.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

Whenever one MMO player wants to make fun of another MMO, "WoW Clone" suffices. Requires zero thought and they can shoehorn it in with questionable logic.

The reality is SWTOR is nothing like WoW. It has skills on a button that you use in a targeted fashion...that's it. DDO is really the ONLY semi-popular MMO to deviate from this kind of system, so rather than "WoW Clone", "not DDO combat" seems a little more fitting.

SWTOR does plenty different. But the naysayers will still call it a "WoW Clone".


You obviously have no idea of what's on the market.
Ever heard of, Vindictus, Continent of the Ninth, Dragon Nest, Maple Story, etc, etc. Just because they aren't really as big in the western world, doesn't mean that there aren't several *huge* mmos that have combat that differ from wow combat.

In a game that's 80% about combat (when it comes to actual game play), and 80% of the combat is more or less identical to wow combat, it is, in my eyes, a clone.

If it's 50% the same, it's a clone in my eyes. For example, if I had a student who copied 50% of the text from websites, I'd give him an F because of copying. Hell, even if it was 30%.

But with having said that, I'm not saying that it's bad. For I haven't played it, so I can't really judge. But that's really my opinion about copying and clones.

[Delt]

You obviously have no idea of what's on the market.
Ever heard of, Vindictus, Continent of the Ninth, Dragon Nest, Maple Story, etc, etc. Just because they aren't really as big in the western world, doesn't mean that there aren't several *huge* mmos that have combat that differ from wow combat.

In a game that's 80% about combat (when it comes to actual game play), and 80% of the combat is more or less identical to wow combat, it is, in my eyes, a clone.

If it's 50% the same, it's a clone in my eyes. For example, if I had a student who copied 50% of the text from websites, I'd give him an F because of copying. Hell, even if it was 30%.

But with having said that, I'm not saying that it's bad. For I haven't played it, so I can't really judge. But that's really my opinion about copying and clones.

Big surprise to see you sticking up for your forum buddy, no matter what the issue at hand is. :rolleyes: And I didn't list Toon Town either, what's your point?

Anyway, if that's your criteria for a clone, then yes, DDO is a WoW clone too. Which I think most of us will agree is silly.

[Raiderone]

At least three or four of my guildies have been playing in the Beta's and love SWTOR.

I have to wait and see.



Here's a review from one of my guildies who played it extensively this past weekend and who's played many MMO's.


So here's my take on it so far.

I got up to level 20, I got my first companion (yes you end up with your own fully customizable and interactive ship crew and staff), got my ship, did the three starter flight missions, and did about 8 hours of organized PvPing. All-in-all I spent about 25~30 hours playing.

Pros
1. the graphics are very nice. They went with the "keep it simple" principal and it's definitely paying off.
2. The combat is fast and intuitive (it's a bit different from most MMO's in that there is no auto-attack... so if you like spamming buttons like a monk you'll enjoy the combat in swtor).
3. The companion system is brilliant. You can make your companions do your gathering for you while you keep fighting, you can assign your whole crew to crafting things for you, or you can send them out on missions of their own to gathering goods/credits for you while your off actually playing the game. I made all sorts of cool stuff and not once was I sitting at a forge or crafting station EVER! And of course, you can bring any one of them with you while you quest... and they are about 100,000X smarter than DDO hirelings.
4. Crafting is fun (as eluded to in #3). Crafting in SWTOR is completely different than every other game out there. It has all the "fun" aspects from other games, but none of the waiting or grinding involved. In fact, you don't have to grind for any materials if you don't want... just send your crew out to go get them. As soon as my crew members returned I just sent them back out again.
5. No GRINDING! I know this may seem hard to believe, but not once did I feel like I was grinding mobs. Every mission you go on has a real purpose with different objectives and is completely cut-scened and voice-acted. Yes, even the random mission out in the middle of nowhere that takes 5 minutes to complete is fully voice acted and cut-scened. If you really enjoy the combat in certain zones (which can be very fun) there is usually an optional "bonus" mission to kill X of those guys, but you don't have to do them at all to level smoothly.
6. Organized PvP was where I saw the most bugs, but it was very very fun. Strategy is king in PvP and SWTOR let's organized players definitely excel in that aspect. I felt it was very balanced class-to-class and even across levels. If you go into a PvP zone at level 20 and you are facing a level 31 you are basically going to have the same hitpoints and damage output because the game uses a level-balancing algorithm to smooth out the differences. Of course, the level 31 will have more skills at his disposal and marginally better stats due to higher gear... but at level 19 I was killing level 25's and up fairly regularly.

Cons
1. Still many unresolved bugs, but no more than most successful MMO's at launch. Even WoW was buggy at launch.
2. Load times for some reason are intermittently long. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it. Another aspect I'm sure will get fixed later.


I honestly can't find much else to complain about. Everything I found that was a negative while I tested it was bug related and is expected to be corrected in the next few weeks before launch.

The combat overall is just awesome. You are rarely fighting one bad guy at a time... most of the time you have to "pull" groups of 3 to 5 bad guys and they are a mix of class types. Where I ended, most of my pulls involved a medic, a Strong Mob (think Epic Mob), one or two ranged mobs, and one or two melee mobs. As a Crowd Controlling class I would Force Lift the medic (where he is suspended in air for quite a while) send my tank companion to the Strong mob and while he tanked the Strong I would mop up the trash. Every encounter required a little strategizing before the "pull" and once you engaged the enemy the action was face paced and non-stop. I played WoW, Warhammer, Aion, AoC, Lotro, and a bunch of other MMO's and I can honestly say the combat in SWTOR is the most fun I've ever had. Even better than the combat in DDO.

After this testing weekend, I have decided to make SWTOR my new home. It has a very in-depth world where soloing is enjoyable, grouping is even more enjoyable, and there is always something fun to do, from crafting, to exploring, to space combat, to raids, to PvP (organized and open world), etc. Hell if you do get bored for some reason, make a new toon... each class has it's own fully fleshed-out storyline from level 1 to 50... so chances are you can see the game from completely different perspective just by playing another class.

I hope you don't let the "PvP Server" thing discourage you from joining me when the game goes live. Only some worlds are "Open PvP" and I've been told that even on a PvP server you can basically avoid most of those areas while reaching level cap. It just gives people the option of going to those planets if they want to participate in some open world PvP.

[Zippo]

Well, the combat is the most important aspect the game. If you don't like how the combat works the game won't last very long.

That is YOUR opinion of it. You feel that it is the most important aspect. Not everyone does. And it still doesn't change the fact that many people do not see the combat systems being all that similar between SWTOR and WoW.

[Zippo]

At least three or four of my guildies have been playing in the Beta's and love SWTOR.

I have to wait and see.



Here's a review from one of my guildies who played it extensively this past weekend and who's played many MMO's.


So here's my take on it so far.

I got up to level 20, I got my first companion (yes you end up with your own fully customizable and interactive ship crew and staff), got my ship, did the three starter flight missions, and did about 8 hours of organized PvPing. All-in-all I spent about 25~30 hours playing.

Pros
1. the graphics are very nice. They went with the "keep it simple" principal and it's definitely paying off. I did like this as well
2. The combat is fast and intuitive (it's a bit different from most MMO's in that there is no auto-attack... so if you like spamming buttons like a monk you'll enjoy the combat in swtor). I hadn't thought about it that way but your friend is right.
3. The companion system is brilliant. You can make your companions do your gathering for you while you keep fighting, you can assign your whole crew to crafting things for you, or you can send them out on missions of their own to gathering goods/credits for you while your off actually playing the game. I made all sorts of cool stuff and not once was I sitting at a forge or crafting station EVER! And of course, you can bring any one of them with you while you quest... and they are about 100,000X smarter than DDO hirelings. For those not sure what he means by sending your companions off while you continue to play, if you have played Assassins Creed:Brotherhood it is very similar to how you would send one of your underlings to do little side missions for jewels and gold etc. Except in this case they are going after crafting mats and credits and other oddball things. I really liked the way they did it to be honest.
4. Crafting is fun (as eluded to in #3). Crafting in SWTOR is completely different than every other game out there. It has all the "fun" aspects from other games, but none of the waiting or grinding involved. In fact, you don't have to grind for any materials if you don't want... just send your crew out to go get them. As soon as my crew members returned I just sent them back out again. This for me made crafting a more enjoyable experience to be honest. No hours on end spent sitting in a crafting hall looking at crafting lists. You have the list in game and tell your companion to go build it.
5. No GRINDING! I know this may seem hard to believe, but not once did I feel like I was grinding mobs. Every mission you go on has a real purpose with different objectives and is completely cut-scened and voice-acted. Yes, even the random mission out in the middle of nowhere that takes 5 minutes to complete is fully voice acted and cut-scened. If you really enjoy the combat in certain zones (which can be very fun) there is usually an optional "bonus" mission to kill X of those guys, but you don't have to do them at all to level smoothly. This is probably why I really enjoyed the game so much this weekend to be honest.
6. Organized PvP was where I saw the most bugs, but it was very very fun. Strategy is king in PvP and SWTOR let's organized players definitely excel in that aspect. I felt it was very balanced class-to-class and even across levels. If you go into a PvP zone at level 20 and you are facing a level 31 you are basically going to have the same hitpoints and damage output because the game uses a level-balancing algorithm to smooth out the differences. Of course, the level 31 will have more skills at his disposal and marginally better stats due to higher gear... but at level 19 I was killing level 25's and up fairly regularly. I don't PvP so I probably won't even bother with this. Maybe one day I might dabble with it a bit but who knows. And if I did I'd probably go Imperial Agent :D

Cons
1. Still many unresolved bugs, but no more than most successful MMO's at launch. Even WoW was buggy at launch.
2. Load times for some reason are intermittently long. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it. Another aspect I'm sure will get fixed later. This was the only thing I saw as problematic, but chalked it up to it being a stress test and the system was probably being pretty well stressed.


I honestly can't find much else to complain about. Everything I found that was a negative while I tested it was bug related and is expected to be corrected in the next few weeks before launch.

The combat overall is just awesome. You are rarely fighting one bad guy at a time... most of the time you have to "pull" groups of 3 to 5 bad guys and they are a mix of class types. Where I ended, most of my pulls involved a medic, a Strong Mob (think Epic Mob), one or two ranged mobs, and one or two melee mobs. As a Crowd Controlling class I would Force Lift the medic (where he is suspended in air for quite a while) send my tank companion to the Strong mob and while he tanked the Strong I would mop up the trash. Every encounter required a little strategizing before the "pull" and once you engaged the enemy the action was face paced and non-stop. I played WoW, Warhammer, Aion, AoC, Lotro, and a bunch of other MMO's and I can honestly say the combat in SWTOR is the most fun I've ever had. Even better than the combat in DDO. Yes

After this testing weekend, I have decided to make SWTOR my new home. It has a very in-depth world where soloing is enjoyable, grouping is even more enjoyable, and there is always something fun to do, from crafting, to exploring, to space combat, to raids, to PvP (organized and open world), etc. Hell if you do get bored for some reason, make a new toon... each class has it's own fully fleshed-out storyline from level 1 to 50... so chances are you can see the game from completely different perspective just by playing another class. I will also be setting up shop (so to speak) over there. DDO has long since lost its shiny luster for me and has become more of a PITA more then anything. Hell I haven't even missed logging in in over 2 months aside from the 5 minutes here or there to let people know I'm still alive.

I hope you don't let the "PvP Server" thing discourage you from joining me when the game goes live. Only some worlds are "Open PvP" and I've been told that even on a PvP server you can basically avoid most of those areas while reaching level cap. It just gives people the option of going to those planets if they want to participate in some open world PvP.

In red

[Cinderbeard]

I felt zero immersion due the fact that often I could see several people doing the exact same quest I was I really wanted to like this game but I cant and I didnt get the SW feel to it myself but then I really wasnt a big kotor fan and I hate the clone wars series if I was going to play a SW mmo I would play the SWG emulator but ddo has spoiled that for me. SWTOR will proably be a huge success though but not for me.
I can agree with you here, but this only applies to the starter world. Afterwards you go to a space port where every class goes after lvl 10 and you blend in with the other classes, get different gear and other companions so the copy paste look fades away.

[mystafyi]

Well, the combat is the most important aspect the game. If you don't like how the combat works the game won't last very long.

and yet ddo is barely played, while WoW, with its simplistic combat is top dog. funny how that works. Starwars:tor has reported 1.3 million pre-orders, so even if they add no other players, they still have a respectable player base.

whats important for you (combat system) does not seem to be the most important for the vast majority of players just by comparing users of mmo's.

[Aaxeyu]

and yet ddo is barely played, while WoW, with its simplistic combat is top dog. funny how that works. Starwars:tor has reported 1.3 million pre-orders, so even if they add no other players, they still have a respectable player base.

whats important for you (combat system) does not seem to be the most important for the vast majority of players just by comparing users of mmo's.

Wait a minute, are you suggesting that the vast majority of players don't like "wow style combat"?
That's silly. Where did you pull that from?

A far more reasonable scenario would be that the vast majority of players actually like that combat.
And that would be fully compatible with what I said in the post you quoted.

[mystafyi]

~snip~
I think we have some misunderstanding issues.
Most folks can agree that DDO has a great combat system compared to WoW. Yet, players seem to prefer WoW over DDO.
Folks also prefer Lotro over DDO in spite of Lotro's relative subpar combat system.

I was inferring that the majority of folks do not consider the combat system to be the most important aspect of a game.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

Big surprise to see you sticking up for your forum buddy, no matter what the issue at hand is. :rolleyes: And I didn't list Toon Town either, what's your point?

Anyway, if that's your criteria for a clone, then yes, DDO is a WoW clone too. Which I think most of us will agree is silly.

Big suprise to see you come to inaccurate conclusions.

Toon Town actually has combat very similar to wow, just fyi.
If you don't see my point, then you're just foolishly holding on to your point without any intent on ever changing yourself. If I say that my laptop is the only one in the world, and then someone shows me 5 more, I won't say "what's your point", and totally ignore that fact.

No, ddo is not a wow clone by those criteria. The combat is *very* different. The only thing that is similar is well, I don't know. Are there anythings that are very similar?

[mystafyi]

The only thing that is similar is well, I don't know. Are there anythings that are very similar?

The forum trolls man... the trolls ;)

[Absolute-Omniscience]

I think we have some misunderstanding issues.
Most folks can agree that DDO has a great combat system compared to WoW. Yet, players seem to prefer WoW over DDO.
Folks also prefer Lotro over DDO in spite of Lotro's relative subpar combat system.

I was inferring that the majority of folks do not consider the combat system to be the most important aspect of a game.

In actuality I think the biggest aspect is marketing. Any sensible *gamer* who has played hundreds of games will know a bad game and bad features from a good game or perchance good features. I've very objective when it comes to good and bad stuff in gaming (hell, in everything), and I can point out several bad things about DDO, but even more bad things about wow.
No *real* gamer plays WoW, it's primarily those who like playing with friends who are stuck there, people who haven't tried anything else, people who don't realize there are any other games, etc.

Personally, I will try SWOTOR, because I'm a "real" gamers and actually play all games before giving an *actual* opinion. I can judge something and see that it will be bad, but I won't really force my opinion upon it without having tried it. Unless it has obvious features which are horrible, but in SWOTOR case there aren't any *that* obvious ones.

[Aaxeyu]

I think we have some misunderstanding issues.
Most folks can agree that DDO has a great combat system compared to WoW. Yet, players seem to prefer WoW over DDO.
Folks also prefer Lotro over DDO in spite of Lotro's relative subpar combat system.

Yeah, most people wo play DDO can agree with that. But I don't think that people who play WoW think that DDOs combat is greater.


I was inferring that the majority of folks do not consider the combat system to be the most important aspect of a game.

Combat is what most of the game is about. It's what you spend most time doing when you are playing. That is what I mean when I said "most important".
If you dislike the thing you spend by far most time with in a game you will most likely not like that game for very long.

[Delt]

Toon Town actually has combat very similar to wow, just fyi.
If you don't see my point, then you're just foolishly holding on to your point without any intent on ever changing yourself. If I say that my laptop is the only one in the world, and then someone shows me 5 more, I won't say "what's your point", and totally ignore that fact.

No, ddo is not a wow clone by those criteria. The combat is *very* different. The only thing that is similar is well, I don't know. Are there anythings that are very similar?

Toon Town is a WoW clone? ...lol.

If you don't see my point, then you are just foolishly holding on to your point without any intent on ever changing yourself. If I say that my cat is unique and then someone shows me 5 more cats, I won't say "you got me", and totally pretend they just proved something.

No, swtor is not a wow clone by those criteria. The combat is *very* different. The only thing that is similar is well, I don't know. Are there 'anythings' that are very similar?

It's easier to throw your post back at you. At no point does it or my rewording ever approach a valid arguement that warrants a reply.

[Chaos000]

One of the things that SWTOR has going for them is that your hireling/companion has a REALLY GOOD AI. Heck they do so well you're better off duoing with a buddy (max party 4) and stick with your companions instead of adding more to group.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

Toon Town is a WoW clone? ...lol.
I never said that. I said that the combat is very similar.



If you don't see my point, then you are just foolishly holding on to your point without any intent on ever changing yourself. If I say that my cat is unique and then someone shows me 5 more cats, I won't say "you got me", and totally pretend they just proved something.

No, swtor is not a wow clone by those criteria. The combat is *very* different. The only thing that is similar is well, I don't know. Are there 'anythings' that are very similar?

It's easier to throw your post back at you. At no point does it or my rewording ever approach a valid arguement that warrants a reply.

Except my view is objective, yours is subjective. And that analogy is not accurate to what you said. You said that there are no big games with combat that differs from Wow combat, so it is not a "wow combat" it is not ddo combat.
And that's just plain wrong. There are MANY games with HUGE player bases where the combat is very far from wow combat, indeed, many of them have combat better than ddo combat in my eyes.

Items - ddo's item system is VERY different from wow items
Combat - DDO's combat is VERY different from wow combat
Raids and group roles - DDO's raids and group roles are very different, where ANYONE can tank and ANY class can heal or tank. There is never just one dedicated tank in ddo, whilst it is the case in wow.
Leveling and character builds - DDO's leveling and character builds and options are MUCH more advanced than that of wow, and there are hundreds of thousands of different builds.

Can you say the same for Swotor?

It's easier for you to "throw me post back at me" than to come up with your own stuff because you simply can't. Perhaps you've realize that you are wrong when it comes to how similar the games are.

[Chaos000]

Yay for NDA being lifted

Combat is definitely different.

WOW - you must remain stationary when doing any attacks

SWTOR - majority of attacks can be done while moving, certain attacks you must remain stationary to use

You can specialize in healing but each Advanced Class have three skill trees you can choose from (one of which is healing) downside? once you pick an advance class you cannot respec to a different one despite being able to reset your talent points.

Also out of combat? there's a self heal button. none of this drinking and eating to regen faster business. No fixed mana or health. It's weapon heat that dissipates and health that regens while you travel from pt A to pt B

The game really focuses heavily on their fully voiced dialogue model. Sometimes you're spending 80% of the time in dialogue and the rest of the time combat/questing. (spacebar skips cutscene and goes straight to dialogue choices) No running to your body on death is a plus... recalling to a choice of bind points is also a plus.

What sold me on the game itself is the companion character. AI is intuitive enough to do whatever role it's supposed to fill and is often better than having a player fill the slot. You can send the companion to sell the vendor trash (1 min) sitting in your inventory while in the middle of questing... when waiting for a party member to bio/smokebreak/afk you can send your companion on side missions (3-6 min) or have them crafting (1min - etc min depending on level of item)

Still some glitches and bugs they need to work out but I'd shell out the amount to play the game at release.

[GeneralDiomedes]

Is it just me or does SWTOR make DDO look like DDO makes Asheron's Call look like?

Also DDO's combat is pseudo real-time IMO .. despite latency and a large collision box it remains fluid, but not FPS quality by any stretch. Still more fun than WoW or LOTRO despite having less abilities to cycle through.

[ckorik]

Combat - DDO's combat is VERY different from wow combat
Raids and group roles - DDO's raids and group roles are very different, where ANYONE can tank and ANY class can heal or tank. There is never just one dedicated tank in ddo, whilst it is the case in wow.
Leveling and character builds - DDO's leveling and character builds and options are MUCH more advanced than that of wow, and there are hundreds of thousands of different builds.


I will be playing SWTOR :) I tried my best to not like it - but got sucked in anyway.

As to the above - if you actually played WoW to cap - you'd find that it has/had some of the most complicated combat/raids out there.

As someone who has played both games at end - the difference is striking - and outside of the Titan - (they should have stayed with that theme) - DDO raids are childs play compared. It's not unusual to spend more time going over starts on a boss pull in wow than it takes to down him. Here we have weeks of 'dooooooom' because people had to stop attacking for 30 seconds to get out of blades.

As to the builds... yes DDO is *much* more customizable - and harsh if you screw up - however just like WoW at the endgame you see most people end up cookie cutting just like every other MMO.

The numbers at end game require it - a 10 wiz/ 10 cleric couldn't hold water because of mechanics issues - so while you can make it - it doesn't mean it works, and it doesn't mean that it lets people raid.

[Uska]

Is it just me or does SWTOR make DDO look like DDO makes Asheron's Call look like?

Also DDO's combat is pseudo real-time IMO .. despite latency and a large collision box it remains fluid, but not FPS quality by any stretch. Still more fun than WoW or LOTRO despite having less abilities to cycle through.

I wasnt overly impressed with the look of swtor and it really didnt look all that much better than ddo at least not as much as it should considering its 6 years newer

[Eladiun]

I made it to Level 26 on a Sith Marauder and toyed with a few other classes. I have thus far thoroughly enjoyed it. My rig isn't anything fantastic, Quad Core with 6 GB of Ram and Geforce 275 and the game ran smooth as glass. The technology is very slick. The only loading screen you see are switching between planets. The combat system is interesting and requires enough forethought and planning to keep you engrossed. Every encounter is multiple enemies and planning out who, what, and how you will use your attacks is vital to success. There are a lot of options on how to Level. You can run the story quests, Level in PVP, and even get experience by flying space combat which right now is essentially a tunnel shooter. They packed a ton of stuff into this game. It's going to suffer the same growing pains of any MMO and I am very interested to see how Bioware and EA are going to handle updates but I highly recommend it. It's not DDO but it's a fun changed of pace.

[Aaxeyu]

Combat is definitely different.

WOW - you must remain stationary when doing any attacks

SWTOR - majority of attacks can be done while moving, certain attacks you must remain stationary to use.

That's not even true.


WOW: majority of attacks can be done while moving, certain attacks you must remain stationary to use.
SWTOR: majority of attacks can be done while moving, certain attacks you must remain stationary to use.

[Chaos000]

That's not even true.


WOW: majority of attacks can be done while moving, certain attacks you must remain stationary to use.
SWTOR: majority of attacks can be done while moving, certain attacks you must remain stationary to use.

I'll amend my previous statement. When ranging...

In WOW unless you progress in a talent tree to make an ability that has a casting time into an instant you cannot use the ability while moving. Making it not kiting friendly when attacking at a distance.

SWTOR, you can do a bulk of your dps (ranged) while moving at normal speed the only real time you'll stand still is to lay down a mass AOE or lay down a steady stream of shots.

You will commonly see more abilities that require a "casting/charge up time" in WOW than SWTOR. In my experience anyway. Course I love ranged kiting and they kind of make that difficult in WOW. You move like molasses when you try

[Delt]

Items - ddo's item system is VERY different from wow items
They both have random items, raid gear, healing items, consumables, inventory bags, collectables, epic gear, banks and more. At least 30% the same.

Combat - DDO's combat is VERY different from wow combat.
The both have targetting, clickable/hotkeyed skills, trash, bosses, realtime progression, spells, melee, range, daggers, swords, aggro management, blah, blah, etc. At least 30% the same.

Raids and group roles - DDO's raids and group roles are very different, where ANYONE can tank and ANY class can heal or tank. There is never just one dedicated tank in ddo, whilst it is the case in wow.
Only true in theory. The bard rarely solo heals a raid and the rogue rarely tanks, because it simply won't work for most builds/groups. Both have tanks, DPS, Healers, Casters, CC, etc. At least 30% the same.

Leveling and character builds - DDO's leveling and character builds and options are MUCH more advanced than that of wow, and there are hundreds of thousands of different builds.
Both have xp you gain, levels you raise, races you choose, enhancement/traits you progress through, gear you equip, etc. At least 30% the same.

Can you say the same for Swotor?
Yes. And you can tear it apart with your own stupid classification of what makes a clone...which is my point.

It's easier for you to "throw me post back at me" than to come up with your own stuff because you simply can't. Perhaps you've realize that you are wrong when it comes to how similar the games are.

Replies in red.

By your own statements, everything is a WoW clone. Just because you pose a loaded question ("Does DDO have Lightsabers?") does nothing to negate the foolish definition of clone you put forth previously.

I could also point out you didn't answer my post, you answered your own post but really that's just something you always do. Maybe it's a language thing, I dunno.

Thanks for the laugh.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

I will be playing SWTOR :) I tried my best to not like it - but got sucked in anyway.

I'm a *really* critical gamer, very few games interest me these days. So if I deem it bad, I will most likely stay away from it. :D
Hopefully it will be good, however, I could use something to play before Diablo 3.



As to the above - if you actually played WoW to cap - you'd find that it has/had some of the most complicated combat/raids out there.
I played wow at cap (well at one point anyways), and played raids. The problem is that the "complicated" raids are only complicated because of the effort to organize everyone and stuff like that. Not actually playing your character well. Of course skill will obviously help, but there are programs that does the perfect combat cycle for you (legal ones I might add) so all that's left in the wow combat is moving, which isn't that hard if you've got half a brain.



As to the builds... yes DDO is *much* more customizable - and harsh if you screw up - however just like WoW at the endgame you see most people end up cookie cutting just like every other MMO.

The numbers at end game require it - a 10 wiz/ 10 cleric couldn't hold water because of mechanics issues - so while you can make it - it doesn't mean it works, and it doesn't mean that it lets people raid.

While there are better and worse builds, the way to get a "good build" is so advanced and makes it so fun in DDO. You don't just have 70 or whatnot talent points to put out, you actually mix classes, feats, etc. While there certainly exist many gimp builds, there are still hundreds of em that are more than respectable, and at least 5-6 per class, not counting stat points, skill points and multiclassing.

[Zippo]

I wasnt overly impressed with the look of swtor and it really didnt look all that much better than ddo at least not as much as it should considering its 6 years newer

That's only partially true. TOR has been in development for 5 years now so it would not be surprising at this point if the actual base of the system was 3 or 4 years old. I'm kit 100% positive, but I wouldn't be surprised.

[Uska]

That's only partially true. TOR has been in development for 5 years now so it would not be surprising at this point if the actual base of the system was 3 or 4 years old. I'm kit 100% positive, but I wouldn't be surprised.

still years newer than ddo

[Zippo]

still years newer than ddo

What I'm getting at is 2 maybe 3 years. That's not as big of a gap as your statement would lead someone who doesn't know to believe. I understand what you mean, but it would be easy for someone to interpret your statement differently. You made it sound like everything in TOR is six years newer, when it's just *finally* getting released. God knows I've been waiting for forever for this game.

[Uska]

What I'm getting at is 2 maybe 3 years. That's not as big of a gap as your statement would lead someone who doesn't know to believe. I understand what you mean, but it would be easy for someone to interpret your statement differently. You made it sound like everything in TOR is six years newer, when it's just *finally* getting released. God knows I've been waiting for forever for this game.
you have to remember that the ddo game was in dev for several years as well so I still think its at least 4-6 years difference between the two

I have to and it sadens me that I think its severly disapointing and it might have made a good kotor III I wont play it as a mmo but I am hoping that the pathfinder mmo might be good in a few years even though I dont really care for the pnp game

[Thordarr]

One of the things that SWTOR has going for them is that your hireling/companion has a REALLY GOOD AI. Heck they do so well you're better off duoing with a buddy (max party 4) and stick with your companions instead of adding more to group.

Having hirelings do what they're told is worse AI as they lack all those human qualities we know and love in PUGS.

In DDO, the hirelings behave more like real players. Arriving at the critical part of the quest, the barbarian hireling zergs off by himself and agros the boss room and all the trash. Admittedly the AI is lacking here as he doesnt spam party chat for heals then blame the cleric.

Equally, the hireling cleric can be great at healing the party. Get a little bored. Then decide to slowly melee stuff while the party dies. Hireling AI even has the cleric chugging far more SP pots than anyone else and recieving about as many back from the party as a real player would :-/

[Delt]

I suppose the *real* difference between SWTOR companions and DDO Hirelings is companions are good for at level normal content, Hirelings are literally useless for any normal at level content (unless maybe as a rezzer, healer or sp battery).

If Hirelings were beefier, the AI tendancies would be much more forgivable. I still think it would be really cool if Hirelings were changed to "perma-pet" like status and you could gear them out.

[Zippo]

I suppose the *real* difference between SWTOR companions and DDO Hirelings is companions are good for at level normal content, Hirelings are literally useless for any normal at level content (unless maybe as a rezzer, healer or sp battery).

If Hirelings were beefier, the AI tendancies would be much more forgivable. I still think it would be really cool if Hirelings were changed to "perma-pet" like status and you could gear them out.

Well they did implement that in partial anyways with the Artificer and his iron defender.

[Zippo]

you have to remember that the ddo game was in dev for several years as well so I still think its at least 4-6 years difference between the two

I have to and it sadens me that I think its severly disapointing and it might have made a good kotor III I wont play it as a mmo but I am hoping that the pathfinder mmo might be good in a few years even though I dont really care for the pnp game

Yes I understand that, DDO was delivered in 06. Development and everything else started on SWTOR in 07(maybe even late 06) IIRC which brings us back to about 2-3 years.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

Yes I understand that, DDO was delivered in 06. Development and everything else started on SWTOR in 07(maybe even late 06) IIRC which brings us back to about 2-3 years.

The graphics of a game is usually not really finished until a year before release. Before that developers tend to use crude models and basic textures. That way you can ensure that you have up to date graphics when it is release. So that leaves SWOTOR at 2010ish and DDO at around 05. Bringing it to 5 years.

[vilhazarog]

At least three or four of my guildies have been playing in the Beta's and love SWTOR.
*snip*
5. No GRINDING! I know this may seem hard to believe, but not once did I feel like I was grinding mobs. Every mission you go on has a real purpose with different objectives and is completely cut-scened and voice-acted. Yes, even the random mission out in the middle of nowhere that takes 5 minutes to complete is fully voice acted and cut-scened. If you really enjoy the combat in certain zones (which can be very fun) there is usually an optional "bonus" mission to kill X of those guys, but you don't have to do them at all to level smoothly.
*snip*


I'm skeptical about this claim... So is there no rare loot? Also, what is there to do when you hit cap? Just PvP?

[Chaos000]

The crafting system is a bit of a grind along with flashpoints (instanced dungeon), but only if you're willing to repeat it for gear that you'll outlevel just by re-running the instance.

I think the nice thing about crafting is that you can assign your companion to do it during downtime when you're waiting for a group to form or when a buddy has to leave the computer to go for a quick afk.

[Zippo]

The graphics of a game is usually not really finished until a year before release. Before that developers tend to use crude models and basic textures. That way you can ensure that you have up to date graphics when it is release. So that leaves SWOTOR at 2010ish and DDO at around 05. Bringing it to 5 years.


The engine it is based off of is decided at the beginning of the process, so it is actually an engine that is about 5 ears old. Which is only a few year off from DDO. And still leaves it right a out where I said it was.

[Cinderbeard]

I'm skeptical about this claim... So is there no rare loot? Also, what is there to do when you hit cap? Just PvP?
Ofc there is rare loot. Rare - Epic - Artefact even :)

At cap you can run the raid (a second is in devellopment i believe) or run the flashpoints at hard mode, boosting em to lvl 50 (kinda like our epics).
Or Pvp, 3 warzones and a huge open PvP planet.

End game probably needs to be fleshed out more, but that's to be expected from a new game.
Bioware is already busy creating expansions.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

The engine it is based off of is decided at the beginning of the process, so it is actually an engine that is about 5 ears old. Which is only a few year off from DDO. And still leaves it right a out where I said it was.

Just because its engine was created back then doesn't mean they finalized the graphics then. Look at the source engine as a good example, it was designed back in 2001 or 2002, and yet they still update it and it still looks more than up to date in games.

[Uska]

The engine it is based off of is decided at the beginning of the process, so it is actually an engine that is about 5 ears old. Which is only a few year off from DDO. And still leaves it right a out where I said it was.


umm ddo was in develpment for several years I think you just want to argue I still say min 4 years and most likely closer to 5 or 6 ddo engine which as you say is from the begining is at least 8-10 years old now since we are about to hit 6 years live

[Zippo]

Just because its engine was created back then doesn't mean they finalized the graphics then. Look at the source engine as a good example, it was designed back in 2001 or 2002, and yet they still update it and it still looks more than up to date in games.

I understand that, but those engines can only do but so much. The graphics design is still limited by what the engine will allow. So your suppositions that designs were "finalized" just recently still means absolutely nothing when the engine will only allow but so much.

[Zippo]

umm ddo was in develpment for several years I think you just want to argue I still say min 4 years and most likely closer to 5 or 6 ddo engine which as you say is from the begining is at least 8-10 years old now since we are about to hit 6 years live

DDO went into development two years prior to release in 06 which puts it at 04. Being that SWTOR went into development in 06/07 that would be 2 to 3 years as I have been saying from the get go. They are working with a graphics engine that is only a few years newer then DDO's.

[Eladiun]

Ofc there is rare loot. Rare - Epic - Artefact even :)


Yes, in addition to drops there is a token based system for Raid type look which is very nice and takes the random bs out of the equation.

As for end game. there is talk that with this last refresh they will be adding an instacap server for end game testing.

[vilhazarog]

Yes, in addition to drops there is a token based system for Raid type look which is very nice and takes the random bs out of the equation.

As for end game. there is talk that with this last refresh they will be adding an instacap server for end game testing.

Not sure I understand here, is there rare loot or not? If you can get what you want in a few runs, then it isn't rare, everyone will have it. If it takes 20 runs to get what you want, it ain't rare. If it takes 1000 runs to get what you want, it is rare... plus, it is grindy.

[Symar-FangofLloth]

Not sure I understand here, is there rare loot or not? If you can get what you want in a few runs, then it isn't rare, everyone will have it. If it takes 20 runs to get what you want, it ain't rare. If it takes 1000 runs to get what you want, it is rare... plus, it is grindy.

If its anything like DCUO, raids drop rare loot PLUS tokens. The rare loot is minutely better, but enough runs will get you the raid gear from the token turn ins.
Never got past level 10 in TOR though, didn't have the time.

[Musouka]

Yes I understand that, DDO was delivered in 06. Development and everything else started on SWTOR in 07(maybe even late 06) IIRC which brings us back to about 2-3 years.

It actually started development the year WoW launched.

Also Token based raid loot topic: You get commendations, however the commendation vendor (You use these to trade commendations in for gear/mods) sells loot that is less powerful than the actual drops. They are good items, but the actual drops in the quest/raid are actually more powerful.

I enjoyed playing this game during the last beta weekend. I find it to be more of a game that my wife and I could just play through together.

I made it to level 25, which is a good level for healers, as a Jedi Consular Sage that specialized in the Seer(healing) tree. PvP was awesome as the healer. It was tough for 2 or less other players to kill me, but when they had 4+ on me, they'd get me.

Can't wait for December 15th. I'll definitely be supporting this game with 15$ per month, instead of a laggy/buggy DDO that constantly releases incomplete updates (ie missing items, missing drops, bugged items).

[Zippo]

It actually started development the year WoW launched.

Which was released in 04 as I have said.

[Failedlegend]

Does it REALLY matter WHEN the graphics were made the point is theres nothing spectecular about them just like the rest of the game...its not Bad its just not good and has NO buisness using the KOTOR name

[Absolute-Omniscience]

I understand that, but those engines can only do but so much. The graphics design is still limited by what the engine will allow. So your suppositions that designs were "finalized" just recently still means absolutely nothing when the engine will only allow but so much.

Point is, a well designed engine will not meet that limit in a mere 3-4 years. The Source engine holds high standards even compared to today's games (Dark Messiah is a good example, still has one of the best textures seen in games).
It doesn't matter when it started, what matters is that it's 6 years later and the graphics are not spectacular. If I start developing a game today that has high-end graphics, but I don't release it till 2100, I won't be able to use that as an excuse.

Either way, graphics doesn't really matter, as long as the gameplay is good.

[Uska]

Point is, a well designed engine will not meet that limit in a mere 3-4 years. The Source engine holds high standards even compared to today's games (Dark Messiah is a good example, still has one of the best textures seen in games).
It doesn't matter when it started, what matters is that it's 6 years later and the graphics are not spectacular. If I start developing a game today that has high-end graphics, but I don't release it till 2100, I won't be able to use that as an excuse.

Either way, graphics doesn't really matter, as long as the gameplay is good.

which for me was horribly lacking in SWTOR makes me sad

[Raiderone]

Well I'll be playing SWTOR, i preordered last night.

Both my accounts on DDO are FTP, so no big deal. I'll play DDO once in awhile. Maybe when they come out with Druids!

[Uska]

Well I'll be playing SWTOR, i preordered last night.

Both my accounts on DDO are FTP, so no big deal. I'll play DDO once in awhile. Maybe when they come out with Druids!

see you when you come back

[DragonKiller]

If any of you DDOers are coming over to SW:TOR and are looking for a casual PVE guild, let me know. My wife and I pre-ordered and I have a guild setup over there, several of my current guildies might be coming as well.

If you are already in a guild, shoot me a message and we'll make sure to set up an alliance to help us all find play time.

[Musouka]

Oooh... I just realized one good thing about TOR.

Ranged Combat = Melee Combat on damage output.

[Zippo]

Well I'll be playing SWTOR, i preordered last night.

Both my accounts on DDO are FTP, so no big deal. I'll play DDO once in awhile. Maybe when they come out with Druids!

Meh, I have lost nearly all interest in DDO. I have not found it fun to log into it for quite some time. I am really looking forward to TOR, particularly the IA. Unfortunately I can't preorder till the 9th.

[Zippo]

Point is, a well designed engine will not meet that limit in a mere 3-4 years. The Source engine holds high standards even compared to today's games (Dark Messiah is a good example, still has one of the best textures seen in games).
It doesn't matter when it started, what matters is that it's 6 years later and the graphics are not spectacular. If I start developing a game today that has high-end graphics, but I don't release it till 2100, I won't be able to use that as an excuse.

Either way, graphics doesn't really matter, as long as the gameplay is good.

You are still limited by the boundaries of what that engine can and cannot do. I'm not saying that they pushed that game engine to its boundaries, but you can only make the graphics but so good before you literally come up against a brick wall in what the limitations of the engine are. And yes you can use that as a reasoning because as you approach that 90 year mark there would have been advancements, new engines designed etc that would certainly bypass the abilities of your engine you used today vs 90 years form now. Your argument is nonsensical and ridiculous in its very nature.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

You are still limited by the boundaries of what that engine can and cannot do. I'm not saying that they pushed that game engine to its boundaries, but you can only make the graphics but so good before you literally come up against a brick wall in what the limitations of the engine are. And yes you can use that as a reasoning because as you approach that 90 year mark there would have been advancements, new engines designed etc that would certainly bypass the abilities of your engine you used today vs 90 years form now. Your argument is nonsensical and ridiculous in its very nature.

/facepalm
You really do not see how fail it is to defend the graphics because they "started x years ago"? It doesn't matter when they started, it matters when it ends.
Duke nuke 'em started god knows when, but when finally release the graphics were up to date. So why not for SWOTOR?

If my hyperbole is nonsensical, then your argument is nonsensical, because that's exactly the same, except I used a hyperbole to illustrate how it doesn't work.

[Chimeran]

SWTOR will own DDO.

The servers are already dying with players using the SWTOR forums because they would rather chat about SWTOR than play DDO
DDO doesn't even come close.

[Uska]

SWTOR will own DDO.

The servers are already dying with players using the SWTOR forums because they would rather chat about SWTOR than play DDO
DDO doesn't even come close.

I think you have the backwards SWTOR bites big time and people will realize that after playing for a while that it has nothing new and it will join the pile with AoC Anion Hellgate London and all the others that have come since ddo

[Musouka]

http://www.vgchartz.com/charts/preorders.php

It's been on top for a bit, since MW3 and BF3 came out. This only charts hard copy preorders. Digital copies are going to amount for somewhere around double to triple the amount of hard copy preorders. It launches in North America and Europe as the primary points of sale, so a lot of people around the world that wont have quick access to a hard copy would of course preorder a digital copy.

[Failedlegend]

http://www.vgchartz.com/charts/preorders.php

It's been on top for a bit, since MW3 and BF3 came out. This only charts hard copy preorders. Digital copies are going to amount for somewhere around double to triple the amount of hard copy preorders. It launches in North America and Europe as the primary points of sale, so a lot of people around the world that wont have quick access to a hard copy would of course preorder a digital copy.

Pre-Orders mean bubcus...the majority of people who have actually played the beta have written the game off so logically so would the majority of the people who have preordered


SWTOR will own DDO.

The servers are already dying with players using the SWTOR forums because they would rather chat about SWTOR than play DDO
DDO doesn't even come close.

You mustn't visit these forums often...there's constant chatter about new games coming out SWTOR isn't any different

[Chimeran]

Pre-Orders mean bubcus...the majority of people who have actually played the beta have written the game off so logically so would the majority of the people who have preordered


This is incorrect.
94% of the Beta testers enjoyed the game enough to be playing at launch.
There are many polls showing this.
The new Beta build has superior improved MMO graphics ( obviously no one wants high end graphics in an MMO because that's just /fail ie.. Aion, AoC etc )
Also the build is running very smooth.

I remember a time when people thought Runescape had good graphics and game play...
I just find DDO very dull to play, U11 just killed it.

[Uska]

This is incorrect.
94% of the Beta testers enjoyed the game enough to be playing at launch.
There are many polls showing this.
The new Beta build has superior improved MMO graphics ( obviously no one wants high end graphics in an MMO because that's just /fail ie.. Aion, AoC etc )
Also the build is running very smooth.

I remember a time when people thought Runescape had good graphics and game play...
I just find DDO very dull to play, U11 just killed it.

you can spin a poll to show you anything you want and I sure would like to know where you got your numbers for your 94% as I know 20 people personaly who beta'd and only 2 are going to play so thats 90% who arent going to play of the other 18 1 is sticking with ddo 10 are going back to wow and the rest are going to try some other game I forget which one but all of the other 19 are going to play ddo now and then.


The two who are going to play are going to only because they are rapid SW fans and while they are severly disapointed in the game they have no choice since the better SW game is going away yes I said even NGE SWG is a better game with more SW feel to me and those I know

[Zippo]

/facepalm
You really do not see how fail it is to defend the graphics because they "started x years ago"? It doesn't matter when they started, it matters when it ends.
Duke nuke 'em started god knows when, but when finally release the graphics were up to date. So why not for SWOTOR?

If my hyperbole is nonsensical, then your argument is nonsensical, because that's exactly the same, except I used a hyperbole to illustrate how it doesn't work.

Thats because they ended up changing the engine used for DN after being in development for what 10, 12 years. They did not change the graphics engine for SWTOR. The developers are still limited by what the engine can do. There is only a finite amount of programming that can be done before you hit a wall. Your assertions are just wrong in an epic way. Take an old rendering engine like Dooms for example. You can only take it but so far before you've hit the limitations of what it can render. No matter how much you tried and tried and tried to code it and recode it, you'd never be able to reach the level of graphics that more modern engines can. There are limits, and Bioware used an older engine, that is only a few years newer then DDO's. That's what YOU aren't grasping. Not only that, but Bioware is fully aware that this game will be played on multiple types pf rigs so they want to allo0w the broadest base possible to be able to play without people blowing up their computers trying to render an insanely intricate game design.

[Zippo]

Pre-Orders mean bubcus...the majority of people who have actually played the beta have written the game off so logically so would the majority of the people who have preordered

I would love to see the source for your empirical statement :rolleyes:. Yes I have seen some people that just hated it, but a fairly large majority of people I have seen, heard, or talked to really enjoyed it, myself included. If your only notice of what people thought of the game was from here on the DDO forums or one of only a few, then I would highly suggest getting a bigger sampling size.

[Musouka]

I would love to see the source for your empirical statement :rolleyes:. Yes I have seen some people that just hated it, but a fairly large majority of people I have seen, heard, or talked to really enjoyed it, myself included. If your only notice of what people thought of the game was from here on the DDO forums or one of only a few, then I would highly suggest getting a bigger sampling size.

Indeed.

I know 18 of 20 people who have been playing DDO for the past 2 years and are getting fed up with incomplete updates that just add more bugs to the list of bugs Turbine ignores. 2 people cannot pay monthly sub fee, but the other 18 can and will move on to either SWTOR or GW2. I personally want to come back to DDO, but I also want Turbine to fix the majority of issues they have and actually release a complete update that has minimal negative impact to the game.

[Astria]

I plan on playing SWTOR a good long while. I was in two beta weekends and got in around 110 hours. My second time through the starter PvE content, I wanted to try the other advanced class, so I did go through the same story. Skipping through the stuff I did before was easy.

If you don't like standard MMO gameplay at all, then it probably isn't your thing; however, it's the most fun I've had playing a game that follows typical MMO style combat. WoW, Rift, Aion, AoC, etc. all felt lacking in major ways. SWTOR does an excellent job of disguising the MMO mechanics behind it while you're playing. Whatever it's doing, it feels good.

PvP felt pretty balanced, at least at levels 10-25. I PvPed primarily as a healer, and spent a lot of time juggling between damage and healing. Note, I mostly did warzones, so I can't comment on open world PvP.

I've actually been without a primary MMO for most of this year. I spent close to 5 years playing DDO on a frequent basis, and only got seriously burnt out at the start of this year. SWTOR is the first of the other MMOs I've tried out that I actually enjoyed enough to consider playing for the long term.

[Chimeran]

you can spin a poll to show you anything you want and I sure would like to know where you got your numbers for your 94% as I know 20 people personaly who beta'd and only 2 are going to play so thats 90% who arent going to play of the other 18 1 is sticking with ddo 10 are going back to wow and the rest are going to try some other game I forget which one but all of the other 19 are going to play ddo now and then.


RU mad brah?
There were polls done on the beta test forum and also the general public forum. Do a search you can find them.
Just one of many http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=674786&highlight=fight
I mean its nice to know you have friends and all, but it don't change the fact.
SWTOR will be massive for a long time. You can QQ about it all you want.
96% will be playing http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=687953

[Failedlegend]

RU mad brah?
There were polls done on the beta test forum and also the general public forum. Do a search you can find them.
Just one of many http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=674786&highlight=fight
I mean its nice to know you have friends and all, but it don't change the fact.
SWTOR will be massive for a long time. You can QQ about it all you want.

Wait so your telling me that polls run on SWTORs website are mostly positive...Imagine that now you going to tell my going to a baseball game and seeing a large crowd covered in body paint and letters that represent Team A and having a poll whether Team A or B is better and than having Team A win would be a surprise and completely un biased

[Zippo]

Indeed.

I know 18 of 20 people who have been playing DDO for the past 2 years and are getting fed up with incomplete updates that just add more bugs to the list of bugs Turbine ignores. 2 people cannot pay monthly sub fee, but the other 18 can and will move on to either SWTOR or GW2. I personally want to come back to DDO, but I also want Turbine to fix the majority of issues they have and actually release a complete update that has minimal negative impact to the game.


After almost 6 years I am just burnt out on DDO. The content just isn't fun to me anymore. And being a big SW fan TOR is just what I needed. Wish it was a bit sooner but better then never. The 20th can't show up soon enough.

[Uska]

RU mad brah?
There were polls done on the beta test forum and also the general public forum. Do a search you can find them.
Just one of many http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=674786&highlight=fight
I mean its nice to know you have friends and all, but it don't change the fact.
SWTOR will be massive for a long time. You can QQ about it all you want.

how about showing a independent poll not taken from fanbois in their parents basements SWG was better in the NGE phase then what swtor is now

[smatt]

RU mad brah?
There were polls done on the beta test forum and also the general public forum. Do a search you can find them.
Just one of many http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=674786&highlight=fight
I mean its nice to know you have friends and all, but it don't change the fact.
SWTOR will be massive for a long time. You can QQ about it all you want.


Yippeee..... Still looks like SWow's to me :D

[Failedlegend]

Yippeee..... Still looks like SWow's to me :D

Lol that makes me think Super World of Warcraft like its a SNES game or something

I vote for WoW: Stars Wars Edition or just to anger the SW Fans WoW: The Final Frontier :P


Anyways back on track polls are inherently skewed by the fact that the people who DO plan to play SWTOR and swarming the forums the people who tried it and hated it will probably never set foot there again thus would never vote. SO I say again polls are bubcus.

So are pre-orders...the only reason I didn't pre-order SWTOR is because my area isn't a very geek heavy area and stores (which despite being a large city w/ 3 big malls and over 10 small ones we have one small hobby store, two Ebgames and no small buisness hobby stores) are rarely out of stock of games like SWTOR, Skyrim,etc. and I was gonna wait to play in the trial since so many games are coming out around this time but I ended up getting in the beta and was ECSTATIC especially since my brother and a few IRL friends got in it as well...NONE of them are going to be buying SWTOR after they tried it.

I personally gave it a second try the next beta weekend but all the convining and bribing in the world couldn't get the others to try it again I WANTED to love SWTOR I forced myself to play the every second of the last beta weekend I played and at no point was I actually having fun.

[smatt]

Lol that makes me think Super World of Warcraft like its a SNES game or something

I vote for WoW: Stars Wars Edition or just to anger the SW Fans WoW: The Final Frontier :P


Anyways back on track polls are inherently skewed by the fact that the people who DO plan to play SWTOR and swarming the forums the people who tried it and hated it will probably never set foot there again thus would never vote. SO I say again polls are bubcus.

So are pre-orders...the only reason I didn't pre-order SWTOR is because my area isn't a very geek heavy area and stores (which despite being a large city w/ 3 big malls and over 10 small ones we have one small hobby store, two Ebgames and no small buisness hobby stores) are rarely out of stock of games like SWTOR, Skyrim,etc. and I was gonna wait to play in the trial since so many games are coming out around this time but I ended up getting in the beta and was ECSTATIC especially since my brother and a few IRL friends got in it as well...NONE of them are going to be buying SWTOR after they tried it.

I personally gave it a second try the next beta weekend but all the convining and bribing in the world couldn't get the others to try it again I WANTED to love SWTOR I forced myself to play the every second of the last beta weekend I played and at no point was I actually having fun.


The science of polling is of course a complicated one..... Check out Frank Luntz.... He can make a poll say whatever he wants, and make it appear to be in the straight and narrow, simply through word craft, the order fo the questions which leads to the question they really want to mine for the answer they want.... It goes on and on...

SWow's may be a great game, it will likely do very well for a period of time and perhaps be very successful long term... Cool.... Looks like garbage to me, but I'm one unimportant person...

[Failedlegend]

Oh and to people who were upset SWG was being shutdown check out SWGEmu http://www.swgemu.com/forums/content.php?r=179-Install-SWGEmu

[Chimeran]

Wait so your telling me that polls run on SWTORs website are mostly positive...Imagine that now you going to tell my going to a baseball game and seeing a large crowd covered in body paint and letters that represent Team A and having a poll whether Team A or B is better and than having Team A win would be a surprise and completely un biased

It was run because of all the negative trolling.
To shut them up, and as it proved, 96% like the game.
Anyone one the forums could have chosen to take part in the poll because the forums are open to anyone.
So yeah, your team A and B speel, not really an issue.

[Failedlegend]

It was run because of all the negative trolling.
To shut them up, and as it proved, 96% like the game.
Anyone one the forums could have chosen to take part in the poll because the forums are open to anyone.
So yeah, your team A and B speel, not really an issue.

See what you or I think is miniscule +/- 10ish person in a game that will probably have over 10-20k people playing it isn't going to matter but honestly other than here (mostly cause people are disgruntled right now) and the SWTOR forums (I'm assuming) people just aren't talking about it...I dunno maybe the places I'm hanging are console focused or something but everyone's talking about Skyrim, Saints Row 3, Skyward Sword, Radiant Historia, 3DS, Diablo 3, Nostalgic Stuff but theres very little discussion about SWTOR and even when it fizzles out quickly with lots of "Mehs" and "WoW w/ Lightsabers"

[Chaos000]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pu84VmXnyzo&feature=g-hist

[Uska]

Oh and to people who were upset SWG was being shutdown check out SWGEmu http://www.swgemu.com/forums/content.php?r=179-Install-SWGEmu

tried that but it seems to have lost its magic

[Uska]

It was run because of all the negative trolling.
To shut them up, and as it proved, 96% like the game.
Anyone one the forums could have chosen to take part in the poll because the forums are open to anyone.
So yeah, your team A and B speel, not really an issue.

Its still only a poll for fanbois those like me that didnt like it arent on the fourms to be polled on a game we hate so its 95% of fanbois that like it not people that have played.

[Cyr]

Its still only a poll for fanbois those like me that didnt like it arent on the fourms to be polled on a game we hate so its 95% of fanbois that like it not people that have played.

Yup, game forums do tend to have a higher proportion of users who are 'fanbois' then average. This is true for most gaming forums.

Start a poll on DDO's forums "Are you happy with the direction DDO is going?" or "Are you going to try TOR out?. Simple Y/N/undecided.

Should illustrate some things.

Another good one is "Are you playing the game as much as you used to?"

[Chai]

It is ahead of it's time and the hardware to truely make it worthwhile will not be on everyone's computer till around 2025. To truely play this game right now would cost someone 5 grand today. It is not realistic.

I play on a system that would eat that game for breakfast. Today.

Not everybody went to Best Buy and bought a mid level consumer 600 dollar PC.

Ill even render some True HD 3D video in darn near real time on the side while playing, using full OpenCL acceleration on one card, while the other card crushes anything the game can throw at it graphics wise with 50% of its resources lying dormant smiling at me while doing so, pushing a framarate high enough where I can roll fraps and still nail down triple digit FPS if desired.

Less than 2 grand today, for someone who can build a PC to the specifications they desire and have done all the required research.

[Chai]

It was run because of all the negative trolling.
To shut them up, and as it proved, 96% like the game.
Anyone one the forums could have chosen to take part in the poll because the forums are open to anyone.
So yeah, your team A and B speel, not really an issue.

85% of all statistics are made up, on the spot. :p

[ImFour20]

So what server will you all be on/suggest to start a toon on?

i saw the builds can go down different paths, like skill trees. are there details about these somewhere or build creations that are posted somewhere that I can begin to look up and start reading about what kind of toon to start?

[Cinderbeard]

Currently having a blast on my Bounty Hunter due to early game access.

Located on the Nightmare Lands PvE EU server.

Maybe I'll log into DDO agian, but not anytime soon.

[RuneDude]

I have taken a break from DDO for TOR. I just cant do two MMO's at once. And have been playing since the 16th and I have to say I think its a really good game, and there is alot I like about it, but there where two things upon playing just a few minutes in I missed from DDO: Integrated Voice Chat and the Grouping system. This is supposed to be the new big MMO, and no voice chat (im sure they have thier reason though)! Same with Rift (which i left to go back to DDO after 2 weeks). Very disappointing. I can only hope they do a group system like DDO instead of those dungeon finders like in WOW!

[Aerendil]

I have taken a break from DDO for TOR. I just cant do two MMO's at once. And have been playing since the 16th and I have to say I think its a really good game, and there is alot I like about it, but there where two things upon playing just a few minutes in I missed from DDO: Integrated Voice Chat and the Grouping system. This is supposed to be the new big MMO, and no voice chat (im sure they have thier reason though)! Same with Rift (which i left to go back to DDO after 2 weeks). Very disappointing. I can only hope they do a group system like DDO instead of those dungeon finders like in WOW!

Lack of integrated voice chat is actually one of the things I like about it.
Nothing quite spoils the fun for me than having some 12 year old pre-pubescent boy shouting obscenities over voice chat.

We old-schoolers remember how to type, and spell, after all :)
We got by doing that in the days of Everquest and the like, and it still works just fine today.

But for those who really need voice chat, there's always ventrilo.

As for the WoW comments throughout this thread - for what it's worth, SW:TOR doesn't remind me at all of WoW.
It obviously reminds some people of it, but not so in my case. */shrug*

Besides, I had given up on waiting for PREs to be finished, bugs to be fixed, and druids to come about, a long, long time ago, so it was time for a switch for me.
For anyone else tired of waiting too, give it a shot. You might be surprised just how engaging the storyline and gameplay is.

[RuneDude]

Lack of integrated voice chat is actually one of the things I like about it.
Nothing quite spoils the fun for me than having some 12 year old pre-pubescent boy shouting obscenities over voice chat.

We old-schoolers remember how to type, and spell, after all :)
We got by doing that in the days of Everquest and the like, and it still works just fine today.

But for those who really need voice chat, there's always ventrilo.

As for the WoW comments throughout this thread - for what it's worth, SW:TOR doesn't remind me at all of WoW.
It obviously reminds some people of it, but not so in my case. */shrug*

Besides, I had given up on waiting for PREs to be finished, bugs to be fixed, and druids to come about, a long, long time ago, so it was time for a switch for me.
For anyone else tired of waiting too, give it a shot. You might be surprised just how engaging the storyline and gameplay is.

LoL, good point, there are probably alot more kids in TOR than DDO, just very rarely had that issue in this game.

[ssgcmwatson]

85% of all statistics are made up, on the spot. :p

and 4 out of 3 people don't understand fractions!

[broolthebeast]

and may the force be with you always, and no you can not has my stuff. its already been given away to someone else who's leaving.

Here's to playing a game with good developer's behind it.

[TEcarson]

and 4 out of 3 people don't understand fractions!

And:

"Quotes on the Internet are fake." - Albert Enistein

[Unreliable]

Seems to me to be very over hyped.

Going to try it out, see how it goes. I hope I am not as dissapointed as I was watching the livestreams. I am not a big story/lore person so to be honest I dont really care too much about a games story; which is mostly what all the hype about SWTOR is about.

Oh well, I will try it but will be playing good old DDO as well.

[Gratch]

I've always liked Bioware since Baldur's Gate brought back D&D to the PC though EA seems to have them kicking out products a little sooner than ready (Dragon Age 2 of the not enough textures/designs page). Then again... it seems there's nothing George Lucas wont due to diminish my memory of Star Wars since 1983... I can only guess he was replaced by a doppleganger... without creativity and a need to sign all marketing deals. Also this is Bioware Texas not Canada so a bit unproven of a track record.

Then again the development on the game has been going on for so many years hopefully it has a lot of strong backend, structure and content in place to make it live past the Another-Cryptic-3-months-of-MMO-and-then-everyone-leaves-MMO.

Anyways. Looks like the alpha-test is done. Game is beta released to the public. Think I'll try it in 2-3 months when it has fewer server-instance-crashes, zany load times, borked video drivers, client crashes etc. All recent complex games have these things... there just always seem to be a large glut of them in the first few months.

Ty for all the current posted impressions/reviews.

[Krelar]

I can only guess he was replaced by a doppleganger... without zero creativity and a need to sign all marketing deals.

I'm assuming a typo but I'll have fun with it anyway. His creativity is actually negative! It sucks the creativity out of all those around him! :D

[Gratch]

Yeah... typo. Though true... negative creativity in that he has shat upon that what was once good. e.g., "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"



I heard that the entrance queue times are exceeding 90 minutes now that it's released? Truth or rumors?

Given it's so instanced for most of the population... that's very sad. Rent extra servers for the first X months tightwad f'ing EA.

I understood the Planetside cap lock... I mean it was a single PvP instance with 100's from each of the 3 teams at once on the same no-boundaries ginormous map. That's a technical limitation.

World entrance to a fully instanced game is a pocketbook limitation. Bad EA. *Whacks with a stick*

[Bilger]

Yeah... typo. Though true... negative creativity in that he has shat upon that what was once good. e.g., "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"



I heard that the entrance queue times are exceeding 90 minutes now that it's released? Truth or rumors?

Given it's so instanced for most of the population... that's very sad. Rent extra servers for the first X months tightwad f'ing EA.

I understood the Planetside cap lock... I mean it was a single PvP instance with 100's from each of the 3 teams at once on the same no-boundaries ginormous map. That's a technical limitation.

World entrance to a fully instanced game is a pocketbook limitation. Bad EA. *Whacks with a stick*

Been playing SWTOR for a few days now got in on early access and yeah ques did get up there in time depending on where you wanted to play.

Some 5-10 minutes and even saw one for 2hours.

What's funny is there was plenty of servers not full just seems Bioware stuffed a lot of guilds on each server and forced people to play those if wanted to be in guild that joined on forums.

When the game started, actual everyone can play on 20th, they opened multiple new servers and are slowly expanding original ones to cut ques down.

It seems to be working as 10min ques seem to be norm now sometimes a lil more depending on when trying to log in.

Gameplay wise it is standard MMO type. It seems they tried to take the best of most mmos and put in 1 mmo.

The thing I like is there isn't the camping you see in other mmos or very lil of it. If there is a special name boss or something you have small instances so don't have to camp a named. There are times though when have to activate certain number of pillars or such and have to wait a couple minutes becase someone just did it. That's in non instanced areas.

Companions are great so far. My main is a healer and use my Dashade to tank for me and soloed even some of must group areas. Was a real challenge though. DDO can take a page or to from this for there hirelings and such these companions seem to do there job nicely.

Storyline and cut scenes are awesome makes the game alone worth playing. Makes you want to run each class just to see what they will do for them.

Races don't matter much accept in some story lines like Sith line if was a slave race they disrespect you throughout story as where a sith race it's a bit different on how treated.

Just got my ship and haven't done any space battles yet so can't comment there yet.

No LFM panel it's all done through general chat so if want to run a group quest have to shout out and get the a random invite. Not liking that to much.

On Dark Vulkar haven't joined a guild yet as waiting to see who gets a rep and not.

PVP is a blast IMO each has different objectives but killing and healing is main fun there. Haven't got far enough to run into any lightside players outside of where I am. LVL 22 atm 50 is cap.

Thats my OP and what have seen so far and I am enjoying it so far.:D

Don't know how long will keep me from DDO but needed a break from DDO. Burnt out and needed change after 5+ years here. I am sure the flame will reignite but SWTOR has me for now.

[Truga]

http://i.imgur.com/DQsOT.jpg

[LolWutRoflstomped]

I am enjoying the game greatly. I have uninstalled and unsubbed DDO.

[Musouka]

I am enjoying the game greatly. I have uninstalled and unsubbed DDO.

2nded...

Been playing this since the very first day of early access. I have a Light Side Bounty Hunter at 50, and Dark Side Jedi Consular at 50. Then several other characters at low to mid levels. My BH is an off-tank spec DPS. I love playing as a BH, because it is the first time a ranged DPS actually feels like DPS. My Consular is a healer spec, and am loving the Heal over Time abilities. I also enjoy that everyone has the same set number of resources. There is no stat that is directly tied to how much Force Points, Heat allowance, Ammo, etc. that you will have. Everyone is the same, and certain classes get a minor boost from spending skill points. Even that is capped. It's a start toward balancing PvP. As having limited resources, you almost always hit points where you do run out and have to just use basic attacks or certain abilities to replenish at the cost of HP or cooldown delay.

It's easy to find people to group with, even though they don't have a LFM panel or board, the chat suffices quite well. I do miss party voice chat from DDO, though. I don't have the patience to put together a group and make sure everyone has Ventrilo before jumping in, so there is a lot relying on reading the chat window. Eventually I will join a guild and get in with a good static group that I can just always play with.

It seems like Turbine is putting in a last ditch effort with their expansion they have on the schedule. If this doesn't grab them new players that will pay for the game, then I don't know what will. We all know Update 13 will release buggy as hell and break several things that they had finally fixed with U12 patch 3. Lag will be back again. Then a digital expansion update will just take the cake. I actually do hope it launches smoothly, because I really would like to have something to come back to later on.

[Arnhelm]

It's a start toward balancing PvP.
I was marginally interested up to that point.

[TEcarson]

I am enjoying the game greatly. I have uninstalled and unsubbed DDO.

Hmmm....maybe you should delete/stop using your forum account as well?

[GeneralDiomedes]

Back playing DDO after a month .. I found the game too repetitive to put any serious time into. Too bad it is a subscription based game, it would be fun to play every few weeks or so.

[LolWutRoflstomped]

Hmmm....maybe you should delete/stop using your forum account as well?

Maybe you should!