Guaranteed Raid Loot Dropping?

[Meat-Head]

Hello DDO Brethren and Sistren,


Skunk chests suck. Some raids seem to have hideous drop rates. Can we keep the new difficulties, but just have the raids drop AT LEAST one piece of named loot? Is this a good or bad idea? What do you think?

[waterboytkd]

I like it. But, there is the consideration of short-manning quests, so what I would do is you are guaranteed a number of raid loots equal to the number of party members divided by 6, round down (so no guarantee for 1-5 man, 1 guaranteed for 6-11 man, 2 guaranteed for 12 man). Then have some kind of drop rate for additional pieces at a lower % than what they are now, since 2 pieces would automatically drop for a 12 man group already.

In the old days before my time, I heard that you always got just 2 pieces of loot, but they would fall to the party leader, who was then solo in charge of what happened to them. Guaranteed 2 pieces is cool, but yeah, the power of the party leader was often abused, so I heard.

[Meat-Head]

Something like this makes sense to me. I dunno. Seems like a good idea to me. I just hate when you beat a raid over and over and the chest is full of ****. Lookin at you Abbot, DQ, etc..

[varusso]

Have each raid drop Widgets that are specific to that raid. Every person in the raid is guaranteed X Widgets in the end chest, with X increasing with the difficulty setting of the raid (including epic). This could easily be accomplished by adding extra chests for each difficulty setting (as is the current trend) and putting one Widget per person in each chest. This also helps alleviate some of that angst about epic chest loot being trash for the difficulty of the quest (put an extra couple of widgets in the epic chest). Widgets cannot be passed in the chest, and are BTC. Put them on top of the chest like epic tokens if need be. No way 12 guildies/friends can run a raid on elite/epic, then pass all their Widgets to one person and let them instantly get the item they want.

Assign an NPC (the quest giver for the raid or another one standing right next to them) to be the Widget Vendor. The Widget Vendor sells every piece of raid loot from that raid for Y Widgets, price based on item. Remove the items themselves from all raid chests and just drop normal random loot.

Every single completion would get you a definitive reward that can be saved up to get the exact item you want. Higher difficulties actually give definitive extra rewards instead of just one more skunkable chest. "Cooler" items would cost more Widgets, so you still have to work more to get the one you really want. All Widgets are specific to their own raid, and are BTC, so you would have to actually do the raid with the toon you want to get the item. But there would also be no more of this nonsense of running your healer through VOD 100 times, only to finally pull your healer gear when you are running your rogue.

Adjust the cost of Widget-to-items properly, and it would not end up flooding the playerbase with raid gear. It would still mean a bit of grind, but it would be a PURPOSEFUL grind rather than a RANDOM grind, and players wouldnt be "afraid" to run their alts, fearing they will finally get lucky on pulls on the wrong toon. 20th lists could be replaced with A decent bonus of Widgets and whatever cool loot (tomes, etc) that can drop on that list for that raid. No more skunk 20ths this way either.


Perfect? no. Better? yes.

[jcoffey]

This is the number one thing about DDO that has always botherd me.

Run a raid/quest on Elite to have +1 items drop.

I sure hope Turbine doesn't pay thier employees as cheap as the chests are.

[Meat-Head]

Have each raid drop Widgets that are specific to that raid. Every person in the raid is guaranteed X Widgets in the end chest, with X increasing with the difficulty setting of the raid (including epic). This could easily be accomplished by adding extra chests for each difficulty setting (as is the current trend) and putting one Widget per person in each chest. This also helps alleviate some of that angst about epic chest loot being trash for the difficulty of the quest (put an extra couple of widgets in the epic chest). Widgets cannot be passed in the chest, and are BTC. Put them on top of the chest like epic tokens if need be. No way 12 guildies/friends can run a raid on elite/epic, then pass all their Widgets to one person and let them instantly get the item they want.

Assign an NPC (the quest giver for the raid or another one standing right next to them) to be the Widget Vendor. The Widget Vendor sells every piece of raid loot from that raid for Y Widgets, price based on item. Remove the items themselves from all raid chests and just drop normal random loot.

Every single completion would get you a definitive reward that can be saved up to get the exact item you want. Higher difficulties actually give definitive extra rewards instead of just one more skunkable chest. "Cooler" items would cost more Widgets, so you still have to work more to get the one you really want. All Widgets are specific to their own raid, and are BTC, so you would have to actually do the raid with the toon you want to get the item. But there would also be no more of this nonsense of running your healer through VOD 100 times, only to finally pull your healer gear when you are running your rogue.

Adjust the cost of Widget-to-items properly, and it would not end up flooding the playerbase with raid gear. It would still mean a bit of grind, but it would be a PURPOSEFUL grind rather than a RANDOM grind, and players wouldnt be "afraid" to run their alts, fearing they will finally get lucky on pulls on the wrong toon. 20th lists could be replaced with A decent bonus of Widgets and whatever cool loot (tomes, etc) that can drop on that list for that raid. No more skunk 20ths this way either.


Perfect? no. Better? yes.

Ok, so this idea is good in theory, but I think it goes a bit far.

The I-want-a-friggin-torc-and-a-littany part of me likes it. BUT, another part of me thinks that the "chest" in the raid has some roleplaying value and some measure of "randomness" is good for that. Being able to just get my widgets and go is a little dry for me.

Also, I like the social aspects of loot such as rolling, guildies passing loot, and even drama with backroom deals for loot. :)

But I just can't handle skunk chests after a solid run on leet or whatever.

[varusso]

Ok, so this idea is good in theory, but I think it goes a bit far.

The I-want-a-friggin-torc-and-a-littany part of me likes it. BUT, another part of me thinks that the "chest" in the raid has some roleplaying value and some measure of "randomness" is good for that. Being able to just get my widgets and go is a little dry for me.

Also, I like the social aspects of loot such as rolling, guildies passing loot, and even drama with backroom deals for loot. :)

But I just can't handle skunk chests after a solid run on leet or whatever.

Something like this was actually done in WOW -- the "poor man's epics" you could get through PVP used a renown system that allowed you to purchase gear. It didnt have raid timers as limiters, but it did have maximum earnable renown per day.

I could do without the loot drama and the 40th run of getting **** or getting an item that is completely useless to the toon I am running. I am perfectly fine with grinding out the gear, but I am not fine with being the donkey chasing a carrot that is perpetually out of reach.

As long as the prices for Widget to gear are set appropriately, the actual amount of grind time will remain roughly the same (barring extreme swings of good or bad luck in the current system of course), but you get the feeling of making a meaningful and measurable difference with each run, rather like completion count toward 20ths -- assuming of course you dont also get skunked on your 20th :rolleyes:

In truth, if you think about it, we ALREADY use a form of this system in-game. We just call it "crafting". And that includes ALL types of crafting. The only real difference is the number of different types of Widgets we have to collect -- which also includes a great deal of random skunking in it.

[Elaril]

Just run a raid with me. It always seems that the phat lootz always drops for everyone but. :D

[settoloki]

Have each raid drop Widgets that are specific to that raid. Every person in the raid is guaranteed X Widgets in the end chest, with X increasing with the difficulty setting of the raid (including epic). This could easily be accomplished by adding extra chests for each difficulty setting (as is the current trend) and putting one Widget per person in each chest. This also helps alleviate some of that angst about epic chest loot being trash for the difficulty of the quest (put an extra couple of widgets in the epic chest). Widgets cannot be passed in the chest, and are BTC. Put them on top of the chest like epic tokens if need be. No way 12 guildies/friends can run a raid on elite/epic, then pass all their Widgets to one person and let them instantly get the item they want.

Assign an NPC (the quest giver for the raid or another one standing right next to them) to be the Widget Vendor. The Widget Vendor sells every piece of raid loot from that raid for Y Widgets, price based on item. Remove the items themselves from all raid chests and just drop normal random loot.

Every single completion would get you a definitive reward that can be saved up to get the exact item you want. Higher difficulties actually give definitive extra rewards instead of just one more skunkable chest. "Cooler" items would cost more Widgets, so you still have to work more to get the one you really want. All Widgets are specific to their own raid, and are BTC, so you would have to actually do the raid with the toon you want to get the item. But there would also be no more of this nonsense of running your healer through VOD 100 times, only to finally pull your healer gear when you are running your rogue.

Adjust the cost of Widget-to-items properly, and it would not end up flooding the playerbase with raid gear. It would still mean a bit of grind, but it would be a PURPOSEFUL grind rather than a RANDOM grind, and players wouldnt be "afraid" to run their alts, fearing they will finally get lucky on pulls on the wrong toon. 20th lists could be replaced with A decent bonus of Widgets and whatever cool loot (tomes, etc) that can drop on that list for that raid. No more skunk 20ths this way either.


Perfect? no. Better? yes.

/signed

[Uska]

I like it. But, there is the consideration of short-manning quests, so what I would do is you are guaranteed a number of raid loots equal to the number of party members divided by 6, round down (so no guarantee for 1-5 man, 1 guaranteed for 6-11 man, 2 guaranteed for 12 man). Then have some kind of drop rate for additional pieces at a lower % than what they are now, since 2 pieces would automatically drop for a 12 man group already.
In the old days before my time, I heard that you always got just 2 pieces of loot, but they would fall to the party leader, who was then solo in charge of what happened to them. Guaranteed 2 pieces is cool, but yeah, the power of the party leader was often abused, so I heard.

I like the red and as to the old system and leader jerking people around yeah it happened to me and saw other party members get jerked around made me quit healing some raids for a while

[danotmano1998]

Hello DDO Brethren and Sistren,


Skunk chests suck. Some raids seem to have hideous drop rates. Can we keep the new difficulties, but just have the raids drop AT LEAST one piece of named loot? Is this a good or bad idea? What do you think?

I'm more in favor of the 20th reward system, like they did in a handful of quests for the 3rd completion. Then no matter what, there would at least be a light at the end of the raiding tunnel, even if it's going to take a while to get there. Guaranteed drop? No, not before you put in your time.

Maybe a simple 50% chance for any named loot to drop on end rewards on the 20th, and a 1% increased chance for every run thereafter?

[DrawingGuy]

Sadly this method will make questing a pure grind. I consider challenges a grind and all events a grind - you do a thing over and over for pieces to eventually trade in for a reward, and now you're asking for the whole game to work that way? No thank you.

Yes, it sucks when you can't catch a break. Everyone can relate on ToD rings - not a single one of my chars has a ToD ring they want yet. I wanted the shard of the AGA - I did big top epic every night, and it still took 3 months before it appeared in the chest - out of 6 people. Or a similar grind for the Disciplinator for my Arti... I finally gave up. Conversely my Barb got the Sword of Shadows on his very first Von 6 as well as a +3 tome as an end reward on his second shroud. Luck as being part of the game makes the chests exciting.

I will say, though, still advocate complete lists at 20 (or some number after that). If you ground a raid that many times, do think you should finally get what you worked hard for. Considering that you can only do it once every 3 days x 20, that's still 2 months of never skipping the grind. I value the fact of rewards always being up in the air... that some people find it more rewarding knowing that their item was not guaranteed. But really, what item in the game is not guaranteed? You do it enough times, you're going to hit your 1/100 chance. Let people go and try their luck on chests, yet still have a point of a definitive reward. All it's doing is putting a cap on that guaranteed item.

[Ew_vastano]

wow i realy like this idea though i would say add the normal random chance of item in chest

i mean my cleric has 63 eadq runs after base item of demon scale armour. given up running my monk as she has pulled DSA twice in that period,

maybe to move it on a little more (considering epic loot is totaly broken, shouldnt take a year of farming to get the pieces for 1 item) on epic runs you get an epic widget and can trade enough of those for the epic item

[varusso]

wow i realy like this idea though i would say add the normal random chance of item in chest

i mean my cleric has 63 eadq runs after base item of demon scale armour. given up running my monk as she has pulled DSA twice in that period,

maybe to move it on a little more (considering epic loot is totaly broken, shouldnt take a year of farming to get the pieces for 1 item) on epic runs you get an epic widget and can trade enough of those for the epic item

Assuming the entire post is directed at my widget system and not the OP. Correct me if I am wrong.

But if you add the item as an additional drop in the widget system, then you are really tipping the scales too far in favor of the the player. It would be the equivalent of adding a massive amount of widgets, equal to the number it would take to purchase the item from the trader. Just having a definitive goal, with a measurable rate of progress would be enough, I think. Doing it on higher difs (including epic) would net more widgets, so you can speed up the process.

As far as getting epic ingredients -- that would either require ALOT more widgets than getting the non-epic base item, or require epic widgets to drop in epic quests. Both methods have pros and cons, so I am on the fence with that one. Plus, with upcoming changes to epics with MOTU, we cant really define how this would work. According to one of the devs, they are still deciding how to handle epic tokens with the changes, so cant really expect them to tack this on just yet :D

[Ungood]

All ideas abut raid loot and how to "fix" it, have been suggested before. With that said.

I feel that every raid should drop something in the chest. That is part of the trill, to open the chest for the goodies.

However, I also like the way Chrono was done, with the idea that the chest has their own loot rewards, and the Turn in has its own Rewards List, where there was a chance to get something else, things that did not drop in the chest. In that regard, I think it would be awesome to expand upon the rewards list of all the raids.

Case in point, As opposed to just the torc dropping from the DQ chest, remove the Torc from the Chest drop, and put in in the Turn in Reward list along with say a Bracers, Goggles, Ring, and Belt of Prince Iwannastrangehim. To expand upon the "set"

There is so much that could be done in this direction with the game, and I feel that it is all left vastly untapped. Have each of the DQ's blades be in the chest, all named. Etc, etc, etc.

It's like only half the loot of the game was really made for many of the older quests.

However, Does it give you double the chances per raid of getting something good? Yes!

But when you think that people have run this raid 60+ times with nothing to show for it, I don't see that as a bad thing.

[Xynot2]

I like it. But, there is the consideration of short-manning quests, so what I would do is you are guaranteed a number of raid loots equal to the number of party members divided by 6, round down (so no guarantee for 1-5 man, 1 guaranteed for 6-11 man, 2 guaranteed for 12 man). Then have some kind of drop rate for additional pieces at a lower % than what they are now, since 2 pieces would automatically drop for a 12 man group already.

In the old days before my time, I heard that you always got just 2 pieces of loot, but they would fall to the party leader, who was then solo in charge of what happened to them. Guaranteed 2 pieces is cool, but yeah, the power of the party leader was often abused, so I heard.

If this is how it's supposed to be set up, I can attest that it's another broken thing. I cant count the number of times in 4 years that I have run an elite Reaver's and nobody in in the party got anything besides trash loot. So I 100% agree with the OP that this needs to change DRASTICALLY. I should think that EVERYONE in party should get something for the work. Especially in ToD. And it should be BTA not BTC. BTC should be reserved for crafted loot.

[~Glimrac]

Maybe a simple 50% chance for any named loot to drop on end rewards on the 20th, and a 1% increased chance for every run thereafter?

I like the widget system that was proposed. I like the above % chance method. By 40 raids, you'd have a 70% chance of getting an item. I could live with that.

A hybrid system with widgets, % chance, and a chance that the actually item you want just plain drops for you would be fine.

Yes, my agreement is coloured by the fact that I am seeking a Tor, going into run # 13 (on this life). I would be thrilled about getting it by run 20. I could tolerate running it 40 times to get one. Not sure I can tolerate not getting it by my 40th, nor what my mood will be like if I don't.