I don't always wear Kundarak Delving Boots

[geoffhanna]

But when I do, I want them to stop earthgrab.

Seriously.

I know there were some changes to the various types of immobilization, but I can't imagine that FoM no longer working on a grapple ability was intended to be one of them.

Don't make me come over there and get all D20 SRD on you.

[In_Like_Flynn]

Stay grappled, my friends.

[PNellesen]

/signed


I can't imagine that FoM no longer working on a grapple ability was intended to be one of them.

In DDO Land - Earthgrab is apparently a PARALYZING effect, not a Grapple attempt :rolleyes:

[THOTHdha]

but I can't imagine that FoM no longer working on a grapple ability was intended to be one of them.

Reimagine. Seems someone has decided to really buff up elementals, first air now earth.

Earthgrab
Earthgrab is no longer considered a paralysis effect. Creatures with immunity to paralysis are no longer immune, and spells or effects that cure paralaysis no longer cure Earthgrab.
This change also applies to Enhancement, item, and effect based versions of Earthgrab.
All versions of Earthgrab now share the same icon.

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Release_Notes_Update_12_Official

[MRMechMan]

Elementals are now the most dangerous foes in the room. Imagine a room full of 20 earth elementals and 20 air elementals...

*shudders*

1. I don't like the change
AND

2. It doesn't make sense
AND

3. it is not needed...

WHY?!

Change is good. I like change. Change keeps things in perspective, provides new challanges and keeps things from getting stale.

Changes for no reason, changes that frustrates players and changes without logic are

NOT GOOD CHANGES.

/rant

[MRMechMan]

stay grappled, my friends.



+1 :)

[Jeromio]

changes for no reason, changes that frustrates players and changes without logic are

not good changes.


+1!!!!

[geoffhanna]

I don't mind having elementals be more challenging. I don't mind Air Elementals throwing me all over the place. There aren't that many of them, and I think the game is better served by having monsters that each cause a unique tactical challenge.

But basic D&D rules should be adhered to when they apply. This is definitely one of those times. Regardless of whether Earthgrab is a paralysis effect or a grapple effect, FoM stops it:



Freedom of Movement
Abjuration
Level: Brd 4, Clr 4, Drd 4, Luck 4, Rgr 4
Components: V, S, M, DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal or touch
Target: You or creature touched
Duration: 10 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. The subject automatically succeeds on any grapple check made to resist a grapple attempt, as well as on grapple checks or Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple or a pin.

The spell also allows the subject to move and attack normally while underwater, even with slashing weapons such as axes and swords or with bludgeoning weapons such as flails, hammers, and maces, provided that the weapon is wielded in the hand rather than hurled. The freedom of movement spell does not, however, allow water breathing.
Material Component

A leather thong, bound around the arm or a similar appendage.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/freedomOfMovement.htm

If the DM wants a particular set of elements to be able to earthgrab no matter what, then have them in an anti-magic field or accompanied by casters with Greater Dispel, or (any number of other solutions that work within D&D rules). This will always be better than just arbitrarily changing a spell for everyone, all the time.

There. I went all d20 SRD on yer ass. Don't make me go there again :)

[Sarisa]

Both elemental changes do little to add to the challenge, but do a lot to add to the frustration players face.

Both elemental changes also harm certain classes more than others.

Melees without huge amounts of strength are harmed far more than high strength melees against Air Elementals.
DEX based players cannot get enough DEX to reliably stand up to an Air Elemental, like certain STR based classes can.
Arcane casters have a large number of abilities to take out Air Elementals at range.
Divine casters have far less available to them, and thus usually get punished far more than Arcanes.

Wizards tend to have Insightful Reflexes, so they won't get Earthgrabbed too often, and since it's a save based ability rather than a pure stat check, it's a bit more fair even on epic.
The low reflex classes that suffer most are again divines without a Monk splash.

Both of these changes make it much harder for a newer player to effectively solo/shortman content where these elementals are rampant.

[MrWizard]

not to get onto the whole 'boots working right/wrong thing'

but.......


don't forget the anchoring boots in ToD raid. Those boots are supposed to stop all time based spell effects.

However, all they do is stop haste.
They do not prevent slow, gust of wind slow, any form of slow cast by anything or anyone.
Nor do they stop any other time based spells at all, they were built with that capability but they are broken.

right now they only stop haste. BUG BUG BUG

[Jandric]

Stay grappled, my friends.

LOL and +1

[Bogenbroom]

Well to be fair, FoM was a massively overpowered spell. Significantly more powerful in DDO than in DnD, as the effects it stopped are much more prevalent. I would be perfectly happy if the decision was made to make separate versions of FoM, like with Teleport or Resist. A version for paralysis effects and a version for grapple effects.

However, as regards Earth Eles, it seems to me that Earth Eles only grab when you are out of combat range with them... so don't be out of combat range. Kill them as you come upon them. At least that has been my experience with them since the update.

As regards Air Eles... I think the only place where they are really a problem is Reaver's Fate. *Maybe* Fleshmakers, but those can just be charmed and left there. Changing an opponent because they are (very) poorly used in one place is not the best way to go. Change the encounter. The use of Air Eles in Reaver's Fate ever since they made the thing all Air Eles is just obnoxious. Hell if you want to keep it all Air Eles then make it so your charge is not dispelled and can be maintained/recharged by remaining in combat with the Reaver.

[baii]

Get some reflex save.

[oweieie]

Well to be fair, FoM was a massively overpowered spell. Significantly more powerful in DDO than in DnD, as the effects it stopped are much more prevalent.

Uh... you've gotten that exactly wrong. Improved grab and spells that hold are very prevalent in PnP and almost anything you fight can grapple. Having an FoM item at higher levels is mandatory or you're pretty much screwed in PnP.

Anyway, air elementals are obnoxious, being hurled across the room constantly as you're trying to fight the elemental boss or Dr. Rushmoor make those fights pretty much impossible for most melee, and killing an air elemental takes a ridiculous amount of time because of it, in challenges which are timed. You can't even fight in a corner as they will hurl you out of it.

Earth elemental earth grab is clearly something FoM should work on. Being warforged, no, but FoM, yes.