Caution!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lifespawn]

Do not let supply crates from the challenge quests stack up in your inventory and go to open them and sell all the **** at once.

Worried about weight i didn't open the crates so i wouldn't get bogged down so i had 40-50 of them in my inventory because you know how much you have to grind those challenges to make the items you want.

So i opened them and sold all the **** off making a few hundred thousand plat couple good items and even 2 +2 tomes it was a good haul.

Log off last night all happy i had a productive 4-5 hours of questing in made a good dent in the ing i needed to craft these new items.

Log in today and go to my mailbox to grab a scroll that my loot sales from last night had allowed me to afford it goes to my inventory no bag message thought it was odd so i went to check my ing bag but could not find it.

Took every item from my inventory and moved it to another spot thinking it had gotten hidden nothing empty my bank to check the same thing nothing.

My gargantuan bag that i bought and was bound to char is gone it had every single ing in it that was not bound to char hundreds of scrolls over 200 epic dungeon/raid tokens 15+ scales and stones all of my seals shards the new challenge quest ing everything.

I'm not much of a rage quitter but this was everything i had years of grinding all gone.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.





UPDATE BAG WAS RETURNED TODAY THANK YOU TURBINE

[PurdueDave]

Against hope, if sold to tavern then check the buyback.

That sucks about as bad as anything in this game can suck.

[ZeroTakenaka]

Do not let supply crates from the challenge quests stack up in your inventory and go to open them and sell all the **** at once.

Worried about weight i didn't open the crates so i wouldn't get bogged down so i had 40-50 of them in my inventory because you know how much you have to grind those challenges to make the items you want.

So i opened them and sold all the **** off making a few hundred thousand plat couple good items and even 2 +2 tomes it was a good haul.

Log off last night all happy i had a productive 4-5 hours of questing in made a good dent in the ing i needed to craft these new items.

Log in today and go to my mailbox to grab a scroll that my loot sales from last night had allowed me to afford it goes to my inventory no bag message thought it was odd so i went to check my ing bag but could not find it.

Took every item from my inventory and moved it to another spot thinking it had gotten hidden nothing empty my bank to check the same thing nothing.

My gargantuan bag that i bought and was bound to char is gone it had every single ing in it that was not bound to char hundreds of scrolls over 200 epic dungeon/raid tokens 15+ scales and stones all of my seals shards the new challenge quest ing everything.

I'm not much of a rage quitter but this was everything i had years of grinding all gone.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.

Fixed. Also, that sucks. =|

[Lifespawn]

Against hope, if sold to tavern then check the buyback.

That sucks about as bad as anything in this game can suck.

ya buyback only holds so many items i sold a ton of stuff from those crates

[Ulurjah]

I would say put in a ticket, but all of us vets know that Turbine will wring their hands and pretend to care and do nothing. Staggering incompetence strikes again.

[Lifespawn]

yes i have basically been told to **** off which i assumed would happen i'll be calling customer support on monday like it will do any good or i might just drive down there since i'm 20 min away and see if showing up in person could help matters.

A cursory sry it happened nothing we can do isn't acceptable been a subscriber since launch with no breaks 5 min of time to search for a bound to char item isn't too much to ask.

[Ulurjah]

yes i have basically been told to **** off which i assumed would happen i'll be calling customer support on monday like it will do any good or i might just drive down there since i'm 20 min away and see if showing up in person could help matters.

A cursory sry it happened nothing we can do isn't acceptable been a subscriber since launch with no breaks 5 min of time to search for a bound to char item isn't too much to ask.

Honestly, I find it very hard to believe that it's impossible for them to restore stuff that is lost. In this case, it appears some bad overflow code is what did it... but they have a copy of your bag at the very least in a backup. It would take one person a few minutes to go snag that information and give it back to you. It should at least be something they'll do for a VIP, imo.

Turbine is the only mmo company that I'm aware of that refuses to restore items lost due to poor coding on their part.

Every time I see a staggering loss like this, I feel like someone kicked me in the crotch, and I'm not even the one who lost the stuff. I'm very sorry to read about your loss Life.

[umeannothing]

yes i have basically been told to **** off which i assumed would happen i'll be calling customer support on monday like it will do any good or i might just drive down there since i'm 20 min away and see if showing up in person could help matters.

A cursory sry it happened nothing we can do isn't acceptable been a subscriber since launch with no breaks 5 min of time to search for a bound to char item isn't too much to ask.

I have quoted my last post in my thread in suggestion's that we need to be able to file an in game/emailed survey on our GM help we get for each and every ticket they close on us.



I still maintain hope for more people to voice an opinion in this thread. I check it often, in fact daily, and I am surprised at the lack of responses.

If we could get a functioning in game service department *(read that as GM's that could do their job)* That put even 1/2 as much effort as Major in Q&A into actually helping the player base as Major does attempting to keep the player base informed, then there would be a much happier player base on the whole.

This game has been a major part of MY personal life for several years now, and it amazes me that simple things like items disappearing from inventory and banks are not recoverable. It would seem (I am not a programmer) that each and every time a player logs a character out, then the information is saved to the database for when they log on again. So for something such as gear and items that disappear and to be told by a GM that they cannot find it in the logs, it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to me personally. The data was saved when a player last logged the character out.

I will continually push for a simple in game/e-mailed customer service feedback survey. This game, of all MMO's I have played, needs MORE interaction/player feedback than any of the others. Actually, honestly, player feedback is not so much the problem. The biggest problem is actually paying attention to the player feedback given. And a survey sent to the player based on each and every specific ticket resolved (or just claimed as resolved and closed with a cut/paste canned response and no player interaction whatsoever) would also benefit the Turbine customer service department to identify the GM's that are actually trying to help their customers, and those that sit at a desk, close tickets, and have a detrimental affect on the company as a whole.


This is a common sense move by other MMO's, but the one thing Turbine has never been accused of, is having an abundance of common sense. The best thing to happen to this game in several years was hiring major to head the Q&a department. Hands down.

Come on Turbine, show that you care how your players feel they are being treated, it is not hard to do!


This game blows anymore. When I started to play on my main account just a couple months before F2P went live, the GM's were extremely helpful. Now they are useless for anything but telling us "this is not in our known issues list, please file a bug report" and closing a ticket. In fact, they do not even 'tell' us this, they just paste it to the response box in the ticket and close the ticket without sending us a 'tell' 97% of the time.

Link to the thread asking for a customer service/feedback survey to be included in the game after ever ticket a GM closes: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=344885 please sign this, and add your voice.

[Mudcnd]

Wow man, sry to hear that !

Best of luck dealing with turbine.

Its too bad that you couldnt take a screenshot(save) sorta of your toons and what gear they have , so that when things like this happen there would be some proof of some of the BtC gear you have.
Then at lest they could replace some of the stuff.

[Lifespawn]

i don't see why they can't grab something since they have the tech to stop buffs and stuff remembering what the char had shouldn't be a problem.

[teh_meh]

omg, look out!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Chilldude]

I completely agree that there is no reason items should not be recoverable by a GM. When a person can work for hours, days, weeks, or even months to get an item, the fact that it can be gone in an instant with no hope of recovery seems half hazard, at best, on the part of the devs.

An inventory cache backup system would be all that would be needed to solve the problem. It could take snapshots of your inventory at certain intervals. (This can be done much more efficiently than it might appear to a novice, as each new snap shot only needs to contain information on what has changed.) GM's should be able to research and restore obvious glitches, as well has just being generally helpful when someone accidently deletes something.

I did find out something I had no idea existed the other day. This won't help the OP, but it might help someone. I had bought a trinket from the DDO store and put IFL on it. Later I got the pendant of time from Phiarlan, so I was setting up a hotbar swap location. When I pulled the trinket to the hotbar I accidently dropped it. I freaked out when the confirmation dialog popped up and found myself clicking yes before I could help myself. I put in a ticket and of course got the canned response that they couldn't help me. However, while I was waiting to not be helped, I ran across a forum post that said dropped items might appear in the buyback window at a vendor. I checked, and sure enough it was there.

[biggin]

It seems they would have the means to do it. If they can restore old toons from years past for $20, they should be able to restore bags.

I know Turbine may think it is getting on a slippery slope returning things (because we all know it will get abused), but a one-time only restore per VIP seems appropriate. Anyone else and if it happens more than once a $5-$10 fee per restore.

Now, before everyone shows up at my door with torches and pitchforks, let me explain:

We all know the normal respone is to look under the couch, if it isn't there tough ****. We all know it should be fixed (like disappearing GS and Ioun stones from Abbott, bags from TR banks, etc) but there are so many different situations that it's easier to ignore than fix. The only solution that helps both parties is to give Turbine some monetary reason to do so. You can shake your fist at the sky and scream, 'Why are you blue sky!', but it isn't going to answer.

Give us an option to at least pay a few dollars to have things like this investigated. Anyone who loses years of scrolls, seals, shards, etc. will be willing to pay a nominal fee for this, even if it is 100% Turbines fault. Turbine could even say, 'Hey, in order to serve you better, we went out to the local college and hired a free intern that we will now charge you for, but at least you'll be taken care of.'

You win, we win.

[gerardIII]

I had the same thing happen to me a week ago, filed a ticket, didn't even get an answer from a GM ...

So i cancelled my "VIP" sub.

[goodspeed]

Honestly, I find it very hard to believe that it's impossible for them to restore stuff that is lost. In this case, it appears some bad overflow code is what did it... but they have a copy of your bag at the very least in a backup. It would take one person a few minutes to go snag that information and give it back to you. It should at least be something they'll do for a VIP, imo.

Turbine is the only mmo company that I'm aware of that refuses to restore items lost due to poor coding on their part.

Every time I see a staggering loss like this, I feel like someone kicked me in the crotch, and I'm not even the one who lost the stuff. I'm very sorry to read about your loss Life.

naw soe does it as well. Vendered off a master scroll once (back before you could make em like hotcakes) our records indicate you sold it. (Fun stuff back then you had to click on the item at the vender to lock it from selling. Unfortunately clicking even once often sold the item.) That really really REALLY blows though. Hope they do give you back the days and days of farming that stuff.

[Synnestar35791]

I had an incident once where I vaporized something by moving it from bank(Shared) to character inventory, reported it....
Surprise "there is nothing we do about software failures, as we can't be sure the incident actually took place." was my reply... Okay about as load of crapolla as one can get , but hey, it's not like there is a record of these things, server info data shadowing , yeah bud, I soo totally simpathize with ya

[emptysands]

It seems they would have the means to do it. If they can restore old toons from years past for $20, they should be able to restore bags.


Ask them to restore you toon (or account) to the last backup before your lost you bag. Better to have the bag, than a couple days worth of game time.

[biggin]

Ask them to restore you toon (or account) to the last backup before your lost you bag. Better to have the bag, than a couple days worth of game time.

And that's the rub. They obviously have some sort of snapshot when you delete a character. They will take the time to do it for cash. We need some option to restore bags even if it costs money. They haven't given us the option yet, however I think anyone who has lost something because of lag, errors, etc would be willing to pay to get it back.

[Ulurjah]

And that's the rub. They obviously have some sort of snapshot when you delete a character. They will take the time to do it for cash. We need some option to restore bags even if it costs money. They haven't given us the option yet, however I think anyone who has lost something because of lag, errors, etc would be willing to pay to get it back.

Turbine is a second rate developer who used a bit of common sense in coming up with a good f2p hybrid model, and that's about the sum of it. There is absolutely no excuse for the game to eat years of someone's rewards and for them to say "nothing we can do about it." ... what they really mean is that it's not worth the cost to do it for us. One week of one coder's time and they could have a tool coded that would allow their support staff to help people. Make restoration free to VIP's and have a nominal fee for Premium players. Problem solved.

It's reprehensible that years have gone by and they've done nothing to address this failing.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. I've got bound to account bags from when the free to play first launched. They nerfed them pretty quickly to bound to character (and increased the price!), but they left the ones that were already purchased alone. If a game "bug" ever eats my BtA bags and they tell me "tough tittie" ... that will be the last penny Turbine ever gets from me. Between my wife and I, we spend something like $500 a year on Turbine games, if not more.

Yea, $500 a year is trivial compared to what they bring in ... but **** enough of us off due to poor coding and a refusal to fix things that aren't the customer's fault, and it adds up. Bigger and better companies than Turbine have brought themselves to ruin due to this kind of customer "service".

[smatt]

And that's the rub. They obviously have some sort of snapshot when you delete a character. They will take the time to do it for cash. We need some option to restore bags even if it costs money. They haven't given us the option yet, however I think anyone who has lost something because of lag, errors, etc would be willing to pay to get it back.


Oh there's data back-ups.... They could easily return lost items, perhaps not exactly as they were when lost but likely as they were within a 24 hour time frame. But there' sno way theyr'e going to start doing that on a consitant basis. In their eyes it's too costly to put the 15 minutes/ 1/2 or whatever into each lost item reported.

It's not so bad when it's just one item, but as is with this case.. It's 100's of items, gathered with 100's and maybe even 1,000's of hours of gameplay... Just horrible...

Sad :(

[biggin]

Oh there's data back-ups.... They could easily return lost items, perhaps not exactly as they were when lost but likely as they were within a 24 hour time frame. But there' sno way theyr'e going to start doing that on a consitant basis. In their eyes it's too costly to put the 15 minutes/ 1/2 or whatever into each lost item reported.

It's not so bad when it's just one item, but as is with this case.. It's 100's of items, gathered with 100's and maybe even 1,000's of hours of gameplay... Just horrible...

Sad :(

I completely agree and also with Ulu, and is why I suggested what I did. Maybe I should put it in Suggestions? It isn't worth their time to do it now. They need to come up with some way to make it worth their while. If it's $5 or $20, some value on what it's worth to get items that are lost back.

I could give a **** about a toon I deleted in 2006. A Huge bag with 100's of scrolls, seals and shards? I think something like that on Ebay could go for $100+ (if you were into MMO's and realized the time involved). Put in a tool through customer service that allows players to have these things investigated and fixed. Either charge the $10 to fix or refund if it can't be (and I think the money is a good incentive to fix it). They haven't done anything to remedy the situation to date.

Go with your FTP model Turbine. We are willing to pay to fix your mistakes.

[gwenniez]

they should be able to roll back that toon for a few days yea..

and they can see what exactly happens to a toon..

one time i took a +2 tome and ate it.. then 5 seconds later forgot i used it, yea well it happens
sometimes so i made a ticket and the gm told me i used the tome.. so he obviously could see
what exactly happened :P.

[mournbladereigns]

Do not let supply crates from the challenge quests stack up in your inventory and go to open them and sell all the **** at once.

Worried about weight i didn't open the crates so i wouldn't get bogged down so i had 40-50 of them in my inventory because you know how much you have to grind those challenges to make the items you want.

So i opened them and sold all the **** off making a few hundred thousand plat couple good items and even 2 +2 tomes it was a good haul.

Log off last night all happy i had a productive 4-5 hours of questing in made a good dent in the ing i needed to craft these new items.

Log in today and go to my mailbox to grab a scroll that my loot sales from last night had allowed me to afford it goes to my inventory no bag message thought it was odd so i went to check my ing bag but could not find it.

Took every item from my inventory and moved it to another spot thinking it had gotten hidden nothing empty my bank to check the same thing nothing.

My gargantuan bag that i bought and was bound to char is gone it had every single ing in it that was not bound to char hundreds of scrolls over 200 epic dungeon/raid tokens 15+ scales and stones all of my seals shards the new challenge quest ing everything.

I'm not much of a rage quitter but this was everything i had years of grinding all gone.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.

that is indeed super suck. If turbine can sell raid loot in the store, they can sell a premium restore service for us. People would pay $20 to recover that much junk from your last character backup. (Can I haz your restored stuff, I'll pay turbine for it!).

[Xiadais]

And strangely... STRANGELY, no Turbine people ever comment in threads about people losing stuff.

[Psiandron]

Lifespawn,
That is truely terrible. I know it doesn't help at all, but I'm really sorry that happened. I feel for all of you that have had such a thing happen. Its one thing to lose something from one's own sloppiness, another completely to lose so much due to poor coding and bad cs. Maybe one day Turbine will change its stance on issues like this, but I'm not holding my breath.

Chilldude,
Thanks for your post. I hadn't ever heard that and I'll keep that in mind should that ever happen to me or someone around me.

[MadFloyd]

As both a Turbine employee and a fellow player, I'm very sorry to hear that you lost items - I can't think of a worse play experience.

I do know that CS cannot help in these situations (although offhand I forget the specifics) but I agree that some sort of response/explanation should have occurred.

[Ulurjah]

As both a Turbine employee and a fellow player, I'm very sorry to hear that you lost items - I can't think of a worse play experience.

I do know that CS cannot help in these situations (although offhand I forget the specifics) but I agree that some sort of response/explanation should have occurred.

It is inexcusable that your company hasn't put together a fix for this sort of thing. When you sell us bags that then hold years worth of rewards and those bags vanish because of mistakes your programmers made ... there is no excuse for just shrugging when your customers suffer that kind of loss due to problems with the game.

[biggin]

It is inexcusable that your company hasn't put together a fix for this sort of thing. When you sell us bags that then hold years worth of rewards and those bags vanish because of mistakes your programmers made ... there is no excuse for just shrugging when your customers suffer that kind of loss due to problems with the game.

I don't think he/she shrugged, I think he/she agreed with us that there needs to be some remedy to the situation.

It doesn't help our causes to snap at the only people who can make a difference.

Thanks MadFloyd for recognizing this issue. Please go into the next board meeting with a great new way to make Turbine some money while at the same time servicing a need of customers.

[HernandoCortez]

As both a Turbine employee and a fellow player, I'm very sorry to hear that you lost items - I can't think of a worse play experience.

I do know that CS cannot help in these situations (although offhand I forget the specifics) but I agree that some sort of response/explanation should have occurred.

Thats... lame.

[Lifespawn]

As both a Turbine employee and a fellow player, I'm very sorry to hear that you lost items - I can't think of a worse play experience.

I do know that CS cannot help in these situations (although offhand I forget the specifics) but I agree that some sort of response/explanation should have occurred.

so too bad so sad loyal customer of over 5 years start over?

[waterboytkd]

As both a Turbine employee and a fellow player, I'm very sorry to hear that you lost items - I can't think of a worse play experience.

I do know that CS cannot help in these situations (although offhand I forget the specifics) but I agree that some sort of response/explanation should have occurred.

I'm glad that you're aware of this, MadFloyd. That you realize it's about the worst kind of play experience and that you feel something should have occurred on Turbine's part is also good to know. That said, you should absolutely push for the development of some way to remedy any more instances of gear getting eaten by the game. I know if I lost all my epic scrolls, seals, etc, I'd seriously consider just leaving the game behind. That's too much work to just lose.

And that would just be loss for all parties involved.

[MadFloyd]

It is inexcusable that your company hasn't put together a fix for this sort of thing. When you sell us bags that then hold years worth of rewards and those bags vanish because of mistakes your programmers made ... there is no excuse for just shrugging when your customers suffer that kind of loss due to problems with the game.

I totally agree. There is no excuse.

[Ulurjah]

I don't think he/she shrugged, I think he/she agreed with us that there needs to be some remedy to the situation.

Firstly, you should read MF's post more carefully. He did indeed say that nothing can/will be done about it. What he said is that there should be some kind of apology/communication with the affected player to try and make them feel better. That is not a remedy to the situation.


It doesn't help our causes to snap at the only people who can make a difference.


I didn't snap at anyone. I expressed my viewpoint that this sort of loss is unacceptable. A customer should not be even able to lose years worth of rewards due to a code bug, but if God forbid it does happen, there has to be a way to restore it for the player.

And apparently Mad Floyd cannot make a difference as he said that there would be no restoration.



I totally agree. There is no excuse.

Well, this is not the first time I've seen a report of this happening. I worked as a programmer for my first career and I can attest to the fact that there are efficient ways to approach this kind of problem. Whomever makes the decision on how to appropriate resources should be made aware of this particular issue. Even if you only end up restoring a few of these kinds of cases a year, that's worth the investment in your playerbase. Imagine if the OP quits over this and takes a whole mess of people with him. I know if he was a guildie and left over it, I would feel like I should also leave in protest. There is no way to quickly replace years of raid rewards... to see what you've spent years accumulating vanish is about the worst thing that can happen to an MMO player.

Please communicate to whomever can make a decision that this is the sort of bug that needs fixing. If you can't fix the bug, then find a way to track these things so you can offer a restoration. I should think there is already a log of when stuff like this is spent/used in crafting and so it should be a simple matter to go "Bag was there on x date at x time. Player never spent anything that was in it. Bag was gone the next snapshot. Ok, verified." ... but that assumes you have data snapshots (which character restorations confirm) and that you have at least rudimentary item tracking (which banning of people for RL currency trading seems to confirm).

And lest you think I'm just a forum troll or just being critical... I love Turbine's games. I've been playing games your company developed since early in the Asheron's Call beta. (By the way, AC1 seriously needs to go f2p, and also AC2 should be resurrected as f2p, just saying). You guys tend to make really good games with interesting systems and things that other mmo's don't have ... which is what makes it so infuriating and bothersome when seemingly small and basic things go wrong and just never get fixed. It's like... you guys could be so much more ... you have all this potential ... but something is missing in the implementation. I have a lot of friends who have sworn off Turbine games because of this sort of thing. I've recruited many friends to Turbine games, and the little things really do add up and keep them from sticking long term. It's a bit depressing really.

[biggin]

Well then it's an agree to disagree situation Ulu. He said that Customer Service can't help in these situations. He didn't say that Customer Service will never help in these situations until the day they unplug the servers.

Turbine employees are the only people who can fix this. Try to remember, not every Turbine employee today has been here since 2006 like we have. You said you were a programmer before. As you may well know, it's 1000 times harder to fix other peoples **** ups than it is to just get it right the first time. This is a major **** up.

[Tolastun]

these "Vanishing" bags have been happening since CC, i lost a bag back when it first opened with epic tokens, shards seals and a epic scroll. GM response was "im sorry, we cant do anything about it." we really need to have something be done about these bags that vanish. maybe there is a problem with the code that QA needs to go over with a fine tooth comb and some GMs need some lessons.

[waterboytkd]

Please communicate to whomever can make a decision that this is the sort of bug that needs fixing. If you can't fix the bug, then find a way to track these things so you can offer a restoration. I should think there is already a log of when stuff like this is spent/used in crafting and so it should be a simple matter to go "Bag was there on x date at x time. Player never spent anything that was in it. Bag was gone the next snapshot. Ok, verified." ... but that assumes you have data snapshots (which character restorations confirm) and that you have at least rudimentary item tracking (which banning of people for RL currency trading seems to confirm).

Now, I'm not a professional programmer, so take what I say with some salt. It seems impossible to me for them to be able to prevent any bug that might crop up that eats items. That's why, a better idea in my opinion, would be an item tracking system so they can see that you did in fact have an item and that it was in fact eaten, thus enabling the DM to restore the lost item.

Normally, on ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. But, in this case, I don't think prevention actually exists, thus, again in my opinion, it would make more sense to make the best **** cure possible.

[goodspeed]

hey is this just the gargant bags that are screwing people over or does this happen with medium/larges? I might rethink keeping valuable stuff in those.

[Ulurjah]

Now, I'm not a professional programmer, so take what I say with some salt. It seems impossible to me for them to be able to prevent any bug that might crop up that eats items. That's why, a better idea in my opinion, would be an item tracking system so they can see that you did in fact have an item and that it was in fact eaten, thus enabling the DM to restore the lost item.

Normally, on ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. But, in this case, I don't think prevention actually exists, thus, again in my opinion, it would make more sense to make the best **** cure possible.

That's why I said that developing a tool for customer support people to use that can show them the "history" should be created. If they can see the bag with its contents there one day and then gone the next, and then confirm that the player didn't use the stuff up ... it should be a simple matter to go "okay, player is telling the truth, restore"

The real question is how much do they track things. Since they can do character restorations going back years, we know they at least keep old copies of characters and all their belongings... it seems to me that if you already keep those records, adding a bit of tracking in shouldn't take too much doing. A competent programmer should be able to put something rough together inside of a week, and then you QA it and polish it and then you TEST it and then you stop punishing your customers when your shoddy code eats all of their years of accumulated rewards.


hey is this just the gargant bags that are screwing people over or does this happen with medium/larges? I might rethink keeping valuable stuff in those.

A forum search would help you find this answer for sure. I've seen at least reports of Huge bags also mysteriously lost.

[mystafyi]

I do know that CS cannot help in these situations (although offhand I forget the specifics) but I agree that some sort of response/explanation should have occurred.

So if you pay real cash for TP, then spend those TP on an in game item and turbines bad code deletes the item, customer service wont replace it?

ofc the bag was filled with items that are worth more to the player then the bag itself, but at the very least the bag should have been replaced. I know my credit card charges would be reversed and put towards a game that doesnt treat its customers like wallets

[Tolastun]

So if you pay real cash for TP, then spend those TP on an in game item and turbines bad code deletes the item, customer service wont replace it?

ofc the bag was filled with items that are worth more to the player then the bag itself, but at the very least the bag should have been replaced. I know my credit card charges would be reversed and put towards a game that doesnt treat its customers like wallets

thats the stance of the GMs, you are just SoL, go buy a new one and spend more time in game getting replacements...

[Diyon]

I totally agree. There is no excuse.

I really hope that this means that a solution to these sorts of problems is being addressed, so that when this sort of thing happens in the future, the means to confirm and amend the situation are available.

[Qaliya]

FWIW, I give major props to MadFloyd for both his honesty and willingness to wade into this snake nest.

[gloopygloop]

As both a Turbine employee and a fellow player, I'm very sorry to hear that you lost items - I can't think of a worse play experience.

I do know that CS cannot help in these situations (although offhand I forget the specifics) but I agree that some sort of response/explanation should have occurred.

Is this the reason why Turbine lets players keep the loot that they get from exploits?

Because no one can figure out which loot comes from the exploit and which loot the exploiter had before their fun?

[dTarkanan]

As both a Turbine employee and a fellow player, I'm very sorry to hear that you lost items - I can't think of a worse play experience.

I do know that CS cannot help in these situations (although offhand I forget the specifics) but I agree that some sort of response/explanation should have occurred.
Can you at least reccomend preventative measures so we can minimize risk for these kinds of errors? When the majority of in-game wealth is measured in ingredients and scrolls, this kind of loss can pauper a player in an instant.

[donfilibuster]

Last time i heard about losing bags in the bank there was going to be a fix, so this new bug that risk losing items should go into top priority.
There ought to be some mechanism to inject newly serious issues into the bug queue and promote them to urgent.
As for ways to fix them, failover measures are a must. It would be the same conditions as with the lag monster feeding and the abbot's maldisjunction.

[umeannothing]

I feel so bad for you Lifespawn. I have never lost this much, but I have lost some things, and the one that caused me to start the thread in my signature was my Admirals Tricorn hat I got from the first CC event via a birthday invitation. Now, it is minor, not even so much as a speck of dust compared to your massive loss, but I took a 7 day ban over it.


I logged in on my OLDEST character on DDO, a wiz I stopped playing a couple years ago (I spent my first year creating and deleting characters), and had just started playing again, and went to CC, I popped on my fancy Admirals Tricorn, and went about my business for a few hours before bedtime. I logged in the next morning for a bit of copper dubloon farming before work, and my Tricorn was gone. Just gone.

Now, most of you are likely going 'pshaw, just a stupid CC hat' but I was proud of this hat. It was the only character I have that got a tricorn from the birthday event, to me, it meant alot. I opened a ticket clearly stating I did not want a GM with a name that rhymes with "chronix" to respond. I got a cut and paste 'not in known issues' from said GM I did not want to respond, I opened another ticket, demanding a GM supervisor, I got sent a tell from GM I refused to deal with, ticket was closed.

I opened ticket a third time and clearly stated I was going to open tickets over this issue until I was banned, or I got my Tricorn back. I was banned after the 7th ticket I opened for abusing the in game ticket system.


My answer is to go to outside forums that Turbine cannot shut threads down on and let people know how terrible the in game GM's are before they become invested in the game. ****** of me? Yes, yes it is. Especially when you look at the fact that each and EVERY time a player logs a character out of the game, their data is saved, otherwise, how could we log back in the next time, even months down the road and still have all our stuff?

This issue is beyond belief ridiculous. There are obviously saved data banks that SHOULD be available to any and ALL GM's to look at, not change anything in them, just look at to verify if a player is telling the truth. And then, a "GAME MASTER" should be exactly that. Not a policeman, not a moody plick that only helps a player that speaks kindly of him/her on the forums, but a game MASTER empowered to help the player, and EXPECTED by their employer to do anything and everything in their power to keep the customer coming back, and spreading good things of this game for free word of mouth advertising.

Of all the games I personally have played, the lack of concern from a GM to even so much as send a player a tell to discuss the issue is pathetic. It is time to empower the player to decide if they were helped, like my siggy says, it is not a numbers game in how many or how fast tickets get closed to us players, us players want to be able to say GREAT things about DDO as a whole, we love this game, but on the flip side, we are quickly getting to the point where that love is not being returned by the game.

And MadFloyd, thank you for taking time on a Sunday to reply to this thread. I honestly feel if it was not for you and MajMal I would have left the game when I got my 7 day ban, but seeing you guys in the forums at least letting people know you are there was HUGE to me. It showed me that at least someone in this organization was truly listening to the players.

[Melondrop]

This reminds me of what happened to EQOA for the ps2 when SOE moved all their programmers to EQ2
and hired a skeleton crew of trainees, who couldnt write a "hello world" program, to manage the game.
Literally every problem ticket you sent to a gm was closed before you could blink. Getting any kind of
resolution to your problem was like pulling teeth. I really do think that the people that worked there
literally decided to do next to nothing for their pay and sweep it all under the rug so their superiors
wouldnt know any better. Maybe they took naps all day, i dont know.
I hope the same thing isnt happening with DDO.
Maybe someone needs to make some surprise inspection drop ins into the QA/CS dept to shake them up a little.

What makes item loss really bad for this game is that we are pretty much forced to put our items in bags,
due to the limited inventory slots, and the sheer outrageous number of items which keeps growing.
Not being able to track and/or replace a bag in this game is just silly considering how important they are.
Hope you get yours back.

[Synnestar35791]

I find that the people that *work* on a staff like this want to be supportive, but the mass amount of users, & the sheer number of problems that come to light each day for an MMO of this magnitude make it very hard to be responsive to every issue, but if we consider the GOALS & DESIRES of the TOP BRASS.... the *Customer Support* lacking is exactly as they see it.
"We don't have time, as we have so much "New Content" in development, that to sacrifice two people on a short staff load to respond to *In-Game software error* nor develope a *Recovery* of items technique .... I personally understand what goes on, but service to the consumer extends also to repairing broken restoring VAPORIZED... really now.... a change in perspective here IS CALLED FOR....

[Xioden]

There really isn't an excuse to not item movement logs going back at least a week or two. And in conjunction with that, there's no reason a GM shouldn't be able to see that "Yes you're right you had gargantuan bag ID#1355673 on Thursday and it didn't move from your inventory so it must have bugged out let me restore it for you".

[anto_capone]

Really need a backup image of characters and their items. Once a week would be fine even. It can be automatic, or it can be a button in options 'backup your character now'. We should be given the option to restore if something beyond our control is broken.

Honestly, I would rather lose a whole week of raiding/questing than to lose years worth of grind. To me, grind isn't very fun so I would be hard pressed to log in anymore if my stuff vanished with no recourse or recompense.

Sorry for your loss OP. I really hope this issue is addressed soon, for all our sakes.

[ferrite]

Tragic.

I think its bad when you have a blanket rule in place 'CS cannot help you to restore any item' with no exceptions, then the rule is inflexible and should be abolished.

The first role of any staff member at Turbine, including manager, developer, donut eater or whatever should be customer service. All other priorities are secondary. Any customer that experiences a tragic event like this should be given top priority.

The rest of us are watching closely to see how this will be handled, as the same could easily happen to any of us.

[oradafu]

As both a Turbine employee and a fellow player, I'm very sorry to hear that you lost items - I can't think of a worse play experience.

I do know that CS cannot help in these situations (although offhand I forget the specifics) but I agree that some sort of response/explanation should have occurred.

Well, it sounds like you need to talk more with your CSRs then. Almost every dealing I've had with Turbine CSRs have resulted in "I can't fix it, so it's not my problem so go post it on the forums and hope someone with the company cares." Seriously, that's almost verbatim what they tell you. Not only that, if you ask for their supervisor, the response is "Since I can't fix it, my supervisor can't so go post it on the forums and hope someone with the company cares." Okay, I did get one CSR that did say that he'd tell his supervisor and would call me back the first chance he got...it's been a few months, but I haven't received that phone call yet.

[red_cardinal]

I totally agree. There is no excuse.

There is no UNDO either! That's the worst case!

What can in game support do to confirm if the OP is telling the truth? Nothing?
What can in game support do to help if the OP is telling the truth? Nothing?

So, why have GMs?

[dunklezhan]

So, why have GMs?

I know they can let you out of rooms if the door closes and there's no lever (Sorrowdusk Black Pudding room, I'm lookin' at you) but other than that... I really don't know. tech support are pretty good in my experience (in that they're like a dog with a bone, they really didnt' want to let me close the ticket I had till I was up and running again).

But customer services do seem pretty bad.

I really cannot fathom that they cannot track inventory stuff. Perhaps no MMO does this, but I know that if you raise a GM ticket in WoW saying you lost an item, I have never heard of a GM not turning up and simply replacing it, no questions asked. Now either they have the ability to check whether you ever had the item, or they have a policy of 'assumed honesty' (probably with a policy checking the ticket history of the player to make sure they don't make a habit of it). That's customer service.

I don't blame customer services so much however - they'll work with what they're given. If they're not given the tools, its hardly their fault - its the company policy and the person who refuses to change it that want the slating.

Major sympathies though. If I lost all my ingredients in one go after all this time with no replacement, I'm pretty sure I would give all my unbound stuff to guildies and just quit on the spot. Seriously. And I dont' have anything like the valuables you did - but its still my time, and as I've said I am not a fan of grinding. I could not bring myself to start building another stockpile when everything could just go again with no warning.

This could happen to any of us, any time. I'm grateful to Madfloyd for his honesty and sympathy, but unless he's actually going to go do something about it, the honesty and sympathy is largely a waste of time. Measures need to be put in place to address this, its gone on for too long.

[Astraghal]

Do not let supply crates from the challenge quests stack up in your inventory and go to open them and sell all the **** at once.

Worried about weight i didn't open the crates so i wouldn't get bogged down so i had 40-50 of them in my inventory because you know how much you have to grind those challenges to make the items you want.

So i opened them and sold all the **** off making a few hundred thousand plat couple good items and even 2 +2 tomes it was a good haul.

Log off last night all happy i had a productive 4-5 hours of questing in made a good dent in the ing i needed to craft these new items.

Log in today and go to my mailbox to grab a scroll that my loot sales from last night had allowed me to afford it goes to my inventory no bag message thought it was odd so i went to check my ing bag but could not find it.

Took every item from my inventory and moved it to another spot thinking it had gotten hidden nothing empty my bank to check the same thing nothing.

My gargantuan bag that i bought and was bound to char is gone it had every single ing in it that was not bound to char hundreds of scrolls over 200 epic dungeon/raid tokens 15+ scales and stones all of my seals shards the new challenge quest ing everything.

I'm not much of a rage quitter but this was everything i had years of grinding all gone.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.

This bug is old and well known. This is DDO remember.

Edit - For the semantics lawyers, this recurring type of bug that Turbine has known about for some time, has manifested itself on multiple occasions, over a period of time, across a range of content and has affected many players.

[Ulurjah]

I really cannot fathom that they cannot track inventory stuff. Perhaps no MMO does this, but I know that if you raise a GM ticket in WoW saying you lost an item, I have never heard of a GM not turning up and simply replacing it, no questions asked. Now either they have the ability to check whether you ever had the item, or they have a policy of 'assumed honesty' (probably with a policy checking the ticket history of the player to make sure they don't make a habit of it). That's customer service.


From what I understand they actually can do restorations, but it's a lot of trouble to do a selective restoration. At the very least there should be a "Give me last week's character back and I'll take the week of losses as opposed to losing my entire playing career worth of stuff" option. They CAN do the latter, and simply refuse.

And that's why I don't really give them any slack. This is a situation where they have the means to help the player. Is it an ideal solution? Of course not... but I bet Lifespawn would be on that option like a fat kid on a twinkie if they would offer it to him. I don't care if he had found an entire set of +4 tomes in the last week, he'd give that up in a heartbeat to have his bag and stuff back.

But they simply do not care enough to even do that for him. We know they can, because if he had deleted that character, he could have paid $20 and had it back in a few hours.

THAT is what offends me so much. When you have the means to do something for someone that is right, and you refuse to do so ... I don't see how you can defend that.

[Ungood]

As both a Turbine employee and a fellow player, I'm very sorry to hear that you lost items - I can't think of a worse play experience.

I do know that CS cannot help in these situations (although offhand I forget the specifics) but I agree that some sort of response/explanation should have occurred.

Thank you for this response.

While I understand there is nothing you can do about this, or change the company policy for that matter, it is good to know that, as fellow players, we are not alone in realizing that this is a problem, and something needs to be done about it.

[Astraghal]

THAT is what offends me so much. When you have the means to do something for someone that is right, and you refuse to do so ... I don't see how you can defend that.

That's what people mean by 'standards' slipping when they talk about it. In theory in a free market economy, businesses will compete for customers. That used to be the case and still is for some industries. But a lot of established industries are now indistinguishable and have terms and conditions that suit the industry and keep customers over the barrel, as they have no recourse.

You could have told that story 20 years ago and people would have thought it could not have possibly happened. Only when people start to realize their rights as consumers again and demand certain standards and put their money where their mouth is will this change.

But I agree it's an immoral, disgraceful position for Turbine to take.

[Hokiewa]

This is incredible. I'm amazed at the restraint of the OP. If this happened to me, I'd be done.

[Miow]

Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! I feel so bad for you, this would make me quit.

[Cyr]

Oh wow bud.

That is preposterous.

Yet another new game mechanic that Turbine just had to do differently and which surprise surprise is buggy. Lost data is the second worst thing that can happen in a game.

The worst is not having proper back ups on data so that it can be recovered or have a policy which basically is a giant middle finger to every player playing the game.

[Kraak]

....what they really mean is that it's not worth the cost to do it for us...

To the OP, this is the heart of your problem. If there was anything in the bag that you purchased directly from the ddo store, then there may be fringe/borderline issues of fraud. But other than that, you're really subject to their state of Customer Support (from the tech standpoint. i.e. being able to review game logs, see disconnects and or issues, and empowered to resolve them, Turbine would rate as an unsat). "They" have a lot to learn in this space compared to "their" competitors, and if "they" haven't learned it in the past 5 years, its unlikely anything will motivate "them" to do it.

I recently came back to play casually because I like DnD not necessarily DDO, and this is currently the best framework for DnD, imo. That said, if you need anything that isn't BtA, BtC, send me a PM and I'll mail you what I have. Kind of a ****/poor consolation I know, but its all I can do to help.

Also, many thanks are due to MadFloyd for responding to your post and is most likely equally frustrated that "Turbine" can not help you recover this. In the end, he can build an internal UI to the system logs for support to use for these types of recovery. And if they had a legitimate issue, autofile a bug back to development for the recovery if it was going to be that nasty. But first you need qualified people to read the logs, understand the game, determine if recovery would be appropriate, and or determine if they need help (versus telling you to eff off directly or through silence). Point is that the problem is bigger than him. Despite his ability to help CS, its really for the producer to push with the operations team to let me them know these kinds of responses are not appropriate, and to make it a priority for development to give CS better tech tools to assess what happened. So that CS can respond appropriately.


<They/Them> - to be sure its easy to say them, and its easy for many Turbine employees to be frustrated and or offended by this. To be sure, customer engagement/resolution for tech issues hasn't been a priority for Turbine. (note I said Tech issues, Tolero can't do it all) Getting a muted, "Good Luck Chuck" response is pretty inappropriate and a sad reflection on Turbine. For the OP's sake, I hope that Turbine read's through any flames to see that this situation just sucks and that there has to be a better way to address these situations.

[Kraak]

This bug is old and well known. This is DDO remember.

Edit - For the semantics lawyers, this recurring type of bug that Turbine has known about for some time, has manifested itself on multiple occasions, over a period of time, across a range of content and has affected many players.

Which just reinforces how inappropriate Turbine's response was based on individual player impact. "Suck it up" is a valid Customer Support strategy, just not a good one. And they can do better than that.

Kraak

[Cyr]

As both a Turbine employee and a fellow player, I'm very sorry to hear that you lost items - I can't think of a worse play experience.

I do know that CS cannot help in these situations (although offhand I forget the specifics) but I agree that some sort of response/explanation should have occurred.

Mad,

I know for a fact that you know that this sort of thing is not a unique occurance. Not only the random loss of items, but also the truly horrible customer service that accompanied it.

I also know that it is not your job to respond to customer service complaints.

However, you are a developer at the company and it is very clear that bugs in the game are causing items to be lost. I will not even say that it is one bug, it seems like there are numerous ones at this point.

With that in mind next time you guys want to add yet another new random system to the game do not do it.

Instead spend the development time on a robust and accessable back up system. Clearly item loss bugs are dramatically more common post EU then prior to EU. Since I think it is a pipe dream that the developers will discover and fix all these bugs and not let anymore into the game a system needs to be in place to quickly and efficiently restore lost items when they do go poof.

Turbine as a whole has failed it's players when it comes to lost data. They need to develop the systems to fix these mistakes for their players and in the meanwhile they need to change policies and simply restore items to people regardless of if they can verify the item's prior state or not.

[gaki]

I rebuilt a fighter/rogue I didn't quite like and after building the three possible replacements, transferred the gear to the one I liked best. When I went through deleting the old toon and the unused replacements, I got delete happy and accidentally nuked the one with the gear. I was heartbroken. Seven epic items, a bunch of rare gear on top of the epics, etc. Gone.

Of course, Turbine has the character replacement, right? Well, I pay 20 bucks for the toon and get him back ... empty. I pay 20 more bucks for the next alt toon that day thinking I got the names wrong ... empty. I pay 20 bucks for the third alt toon ... empty. I pay 20 more dollars for the old toon ... empty.

Four years of equipment simply vanished and all Turbine can tell me is that the character undelete team can't "see" equipment. 80 bucks is nothing on my salary. I'm miffed about wasting the money, of course, but I'm far more miffed that that this gear, which represents hours upon hours I will never get back is simply gone, with no explanation. So, it could be worse. You could be out both cash AND gear like me. ;-)

How many more days until SWTOR launches? Not few enough.

[Battlehawke]

Obviously "gliches" happen. However, when they do Customer Service needs to kick in. I know ultimately this a game but it's a game that I invest countess hours and dollars into. It's a game by which our playing employs people at Turbine and WB. With that said, I can't believe how completely helpless the GM's are in game. 90% of every ticket I have ever submitted is has had a response of "We apologize, unfortunately........ YOU need to submit a ticket" So, I'm telling you something is wrong with your game that supports your job and you want me to do the "follow up/work". REALLY? As far as I know the GM's can resins with a respawn of a boss, respawn of a key or unlocking item or teleport you somewhere you need to be, if they are more interested in helping yoymu than playing whatever game they happen to be playing. Oh, and my favorite is when your ticket is "resolved" when they never even bother to /tell you!

Sorry, getting off a tangent. Anyway, there should be someway for someone in game to fix your problem or at least compensate you for tine and/or items lost.

Thanks

[Ulurjah]

I rebuilt a fighter/rogue I didn't quite like and after building the three possible replacements, transferred the gear to the one I liked best. When I went through deleting the old toon and the unused replacements, I got delete happy and accidentally nuked the one with the gear. I was heartbroken. Seven epic items, a bunch of rare gear on top of the epics, etc. Gone.

Of course, Turbine has the character replacement, right? Well, I pay 20 bucks for the toon and get him back ... empty. I pay 20 more bucks for the next alt toon that day thinking I got the names wrong ... empty. I pay 20 bucks for the third alt toon ... empty. I pay 20 more dollars for the old toon ... empty.

Four years of equipment simply vanished and all Turbine can tell me is that the character undelete team can't "see" equipment. 80 bucks is nothing on my salary. I'm miffed about wasting the money, of course, but I'm far more miffed that that this gear, which represents hours upon hours I will never get back is simply gone, with no explanation. So, it could be worse. You could be out both cash AND gear like me. ;-)

How many more days until SWTOR launches? Not few enough.

If you pre-ordered on day one, you have a good chance of being able to head start on December 15th like me! PM me if you want to play together :)

As for the rest of your post ... that's staggeringly bad. Not only did you lose the stuff, but they took $80 from you and didn't give it back ... just ... that's theft in my opinion.

[danotmano1998]

Ok, so ....

Any idea what caused the bag loss? Was it the challenge stuff ?
Was it something the OP did that can be avoided?

I have to admit that if I lost my bag full of goodies I've worked the entire last year for, I would cancell my sub and not come back.

[Cyndrome]

Ok, so ....

Any idea what caused the bag loss? Was it the challenge stuff ?
Was it something the OP did that can be avoided?

I have to admit that if I lost my bag full of goodies I've worked the entire last year for, I would cancell my sub and not come back.

He was opening the trunks from Rushmore's challenge. The trunks were badly bugged and some people were using them in unconventional ways. Sounds like that was not the case with OP; he claims he was just opening a lot of them at the same time causing an overloaded inventory.

[smatt]

Ok, so ....

Any idea what caused the bag loss? Was it the challenge stuff ?
Was it something the OP did that can be avoided?

I have to admit that if I lost my bag full of goodies I've worked the entire last year for, I would cancell my sub and not come back. Hard to say on this one, since it was a BTC bag. One of the big no-no's when it comes to mitigating the cahnces of lost items is to make sure, You wait 30 seconds or so after moving important stuff from inventory to bank or shared bank, or mailing an item. And longer IF you notice an extreme amount of lag while doing so. Such as mailing an item and it not leaving your inventory for a while etc. I've neer lost anything of great import over the last 5 years and use the amil and inventory sharing stuff A LOT. The peopel I knwo that have lsot items such as bags etc, are the type that log here log there over here over there very fast very A.D.D.....

Not likely, that this is what happened in this case, but a bit of patience as I pointed out will most likely lessen the chance of loosing items.

[Tyrande]

Part of my festivult wish list:

1) Why limit people to open supply chests? Why can't lower character level characters open higher level supply chests? If the items inside cannot be used, then they cannot be used. ML Limit usage on items, not chests please.

2) Supply chests should be stack-able like other ingredients to 10,000 per inventory space.

3) Supply chests should be able to put into ingredient bags.

4) Kill the gremlin(s) that stole stuff out of ingredient bags and inventories. (Test the inventory boundary conditions?)

[barecm]

From memory, I believe there was a bag issue when they first released them. I guess they added that feature back in.... I am always amazed how they allow previously fixed issues back into the game. I guess there are ignoring the whole "release/version control" aspect of managing a project. Poor grade here.

[balancetraveller]

F*ck. This is horrible. Sorry to hear that OP :(

Does this mean that we have to make sure we've got lotta inv space when openning up those challenge treasure boxes, or the produced loots will flux away everything else inside the inv???

This is some serious sh*t that needs to be addressed ASAP...

[HAL]

At the very least there should be a "Give me last week's character back and I'll take the week of losses as opposed to losing my entire playing career worth of stuff" option. They CAN do the latter, and simply refuse...

We know they can, because if he had deleted that character, he could have paid $20 and had it back in a few hours.

THAT is what offends me so much. When you have the means to do something for someone that is right, and you refuse to do so ... I don't see how you can defend that.

THIS. They obviously can do it but they don't. But I would not be satisfied with rolling back my character. We know that other games can replace your stuff. We know that there are records of our characters or we wouldn't be able to login each day and have our stuff as others have stated. This game is doing well, put some of that money into customer service.

[Lifespawn]

To the OP, this is the heart of your problem. If there was anything in the bag that you purchased directly from the ddo store, then there may be fringe/borderline issues of fraud. But other than that, you're really subject to their state of Customer Support (from the tech standpoint. i.e. being able to review game logs, see disconnects and or issues, and empowered to resolve them, Turbine would rate as an unsat). "They" have a lot to learn in this space compared to "their" competitors, and if "they" haven't learned it in the past 5 years, its unlikely anything will motivate "them" to do it.

I recently came back to play casually because I like DnD not necessarily DDO, and this is currently the best framework for DnD, imo. That said, if you need anything that isn't BtA, BtC, send me a PM and I'll mail you what I have. Kind of a ****/poor consolation I know, but its all I can do to help.

Also, many thanks are due to MadFloyd for responding to your post and is most likely equally frustrated that "Turbine" can not help you recover this. In the end, he can build an internal UI to the system logs for support to use for these types of recovery. And if they had a legitimate issue, autofile a bug back to development for the recovery if it was going to be that nasty. But first you need qualified people to read the logs, understand the game, determine if recovery would be appropriate, and or determine if they need help (versus telling you to eff off directly or through silence). Point is that the problem is bigger than him. Despite his ability to help CS, its really for the producer to push with the operations team to let me them know these kinds of responses are not appropriate, and to make it a priority for development to give CS better tech tools to assess what happened. So that CS can respond appropriately.


<They/Them> - to be sure its easy to say them, and its easy for many Turbine employees to be frustrated and or offended by this. To be sure, customer engagement/resolution for tech issues hasn't been a priority for Turbine. (note I said Tech issues, Tolero can't do it all) Getting a muted, "Good Luck Chuck" response is pretty inappropriate and a sad reflection on Turbine. For the OP's sake, I hope that Turbine read's through any flames to see that this situation just sucks and that there has to be a better way to address these situations.


the bag itself was purchased

[Cyr]

Does this mean that we have to make sure we've got lotta inv space when openning up those challenge treasure boxes, or the produced loots will flux away everything else inside the inv???

Unknown.

There are known issues (by the players at least) that swapping items from one type of storage to another is not secure (ie bank, shared bank, bags, inventory, and TR cache). This could be a more severe example of this (as in not only are moved items vulnerable, but anything within the storage medium effected) or it could be some sort of inventory overflow issue.

I have heard no reports personally of inventory overflow issues specifically causing lost items in the past and we have a guildy who runs with inventory overflowing almost as a constant.

Or should I say I had heard of no reports where this was implicated. Now I have heard of one where it is a suspicion.

Safest way to avoid the OPs issue. Do not run any challenges.

[Ulurjah]

Unknown.

There are known issues (by the players at least) that swapping items from one type of storage to another is not secure (ie bank, shared bank, bags, inventory, and TR cache). This could be a more severe example of this (as in not only are moved items vulnerable, but anything within the storage medium effected) or it could be some sort of inventory overflow issue.

I have heard no reports personally of inventory overflow issues specifically causing lost items in the past and we have a guildy who runs with inventory overflowing almost as a constant.

Or should I say I had heard of no reports where this was implicated. Now I have heard of one where it is a suspicion.

Safest way to avoid the OPs issue. Do not run any challenges.

We shouldn't have to keep mental lists of what content we can and cannot do if we care about our stuff not vanishing.

And to be clear ... it's not bugs that I find unacceptable. Bugs happen and no developer that I'm aware of has ever released a bug free program. It's the refusal to make things right with the customer when a bug causes harm. Not the inability, mind you. If they really couldn't do anything, that would be bad but not morally bankrupt. They can do something and simply choose not to.

[Cyr]

We shouldn't have to keep mental lists of what content we can and cannot do if we care about our stuff not vanishing.

I certainly am not disagreeing with you.

I am just stating that with the severity of this bug it might be wise to just avoid the problem area all together (like the abbot and dispearing items which Turbine never put in their bug list until they thought they had fixed it...).

[Kraak]

the bag itself was purchased If it was purchased with TP, then they're going to need to replace that. Not necessarily the contents, but definitely the bag. GL.

Kraak

[Cyr]

If it was purchased with TP, then they're going to need to replace that. Not necessarily the contents, but definitely the bag. GL.

Kraak

Yup.

They can not say they can not verify that you purchased it. Turbine keeps a log of store purchases. The bag is BtC so it's not like the GMs can not check your toon for it and see it's not there nor could you have traded it to some random guy.

[slimkj]

Disclaimer: This is not in any way meant as a Captain Hindsight comment directed at the OP, for whom I have huge sympathy and I hope they get some kind of resolution. It's intended as friendly advice for other sympathetic readers of the thread.

Threads like this in the past are why I keep a spread of plat & ings/items over different chars and different bags/banks. If any players have the slots to do so, I would advise doing the same. This should help lessen the impact of particular bugs and hopefully undo less of your invested time.
--
Hope you get your bag back but I know it's unlikely. If it's any consolation, I had fun building up my gear again from scratch when I moved here from the EU servers before the transfers were available. Maybe you'll be able to enjoy the game in a different way even if you don't see the bag again. Here's hoping.

[Tyrande]

May be there should be a new feature for 595 TP from the character login screen:

[Backup your character]: can be back up as much times as you like with the feature purchased.

And for 2000 TP: [Restore your character from latest backup] Can be activated once per paid TP.

[Lifespawn]

Disclaimer: This is not in any way meant as a Captain Hindsight comment directed at the OP, for whom I have huge sympathy and I hope they get some kind of resolution. It's intended as friendly advice for other sympathetic readers of the thread.

Threads like this in the past are why I keep a spread of plat & ings/items over different chars and different bags/banks. If any players have the slots to do so, I would advise doing the same. This should help lessen the impact of particular bugs and hopefully undo less of your invested time.
--
Hope you get your bag back but I know it's unlikely. If it's any consolation, I had fun building up my gear again from scratch when I moved here from the EU servers before the transfers were available. Maybe you'll be able to enjoy the game in a different way even if you don't see the bag again. Here's hoping.



Well thats kind of the reason i put them all on the same char in a bound to char bag because of the horror stories i'd heard of people moving bags through the bank and losing them.

I figured if i needed anything i could either mail it or send things individually through the bank to lessen the impact of a loss like only one run of the shroud of that bag not a huge loss i put each bag through the bank with little in it.

mad has pm'd me to get more info and i'm waiting on CS to get back to me before anything drastic.

[Phoenix-daBard]

I don't know if this helps, but here is what I do to avoid bag lag issues:

1. Start opening the bag.
2. Try to open a tiny bag. When the tiny bag opens I figure the server is finished messing with the big bag.
3. Do whatever I planned.
4. Test with the tiny again.
5. Close the big bag.
6. Test with the tiny again. When the tiny bag opens and closes properly I figure the server is finished saving the changes.

After this I would feel safe logging out.

ETA: I also don't have auto-gather set on anything larger than a medium. I just don't trust it.

[slimkj]

Well thats kind of the reason i put them all on the same char in a bound to char bag because of the horror stories i'd heard of people moving bags through the bank and losing them.
Yeah, that's why I only moved a bit at a time and not through bags. It took a while but I feel safer now. Kinda like spreading your investments in RL I guess (not that I have any savings :/).


mad has pm'd me to get more info and i'm waiting on CS to get back to me before anything drastic.
That's good to hear, hope you get the outcome you'd like!

[ferrite]

May be there should be a new feature for 595 TP from the character login screen:

[Backup your character]: can be back up as much times as you like with the feature purchased.

And for 2000 TP: [Restore your character from latest backup] Can be activated once per paid TP.

What?!

This should already be given to me FREE GRATIS. Its enough that I choose to spend my leisure time playing this game with my $$. I'll not pay for such a service.. I already expect it as a courtesy.

That hard truth is, when it comes to MMO's its a players/buyers market. If Turbine cannot satisfy its players then step aside and make way for a company that can, and will.

[Tyrande]

What?!

This should already be given to me FREE GRATIS. Its enough that I choose to spend my leisure time playing this game with my $$. I'll not pay for such a service.. I already expect it as a courtesy.

That hard truth is, when it comes to MMO's its a players/buyers market. If Turbine cannot satisfy its players then step aside and make way for a company that can, and will.

Nothing personal pointing at you.

I was just suggesting a solution on demand. It was an on demand restore solution instead of waiting on Customer Support.

Turbine currently charges $20.00 for the restore service anyways. 2000TP is pretty close to the called $20.00 service.

[NaturalHazard]

sorry to hear this......

Also those crates have opened up a serious can of worms, not just with stuff disapearing either........ but I won't get into that.

The thing is, i know nothing about programing, mmo's and what ever, but it is disapointing that this stuff was released with all these issues cropping up. I know everything can't be perfect, but with a little more testing could they have maybe found these issues then delayed the release till they found a fix for them?

[Astraghal]

May be there should be a new feature for 595 TP from the character login screen:

[Backup your character]: can be back up as much times as you like with the feature purchased.

And for 2000 TP: [Restore your character from latest backup] Can be activated once per paid TP.

How did you arrive at those TP values?

Why should we have to pay extra for what should be part of the service?

Once it's been verified that something like this has happened, players should be able to submit a ticket and have their character replaced with a recent backup.

[Ungood]

However, you are a developer at the company and it is very clear that bugs in the game are causing items to be lost. I will not even say that it is one bug, it seems like there are numerous ones at this point.

While bags can get lost due to bugs, that was not the case in this situation, and Mad can only do so much with his time. It is neither his call to fix the problem, or within his authority to change corporate policy as to how CS handles situations like this.

However it is good to know that he is on our side in this situation, as I am sure if he (or anyone) called the CS department, they would want to be helped, not shoved away and told "Tough Luck" which means, While maybe he can't make the call to spend corporate resources looking into the problem, he can suggest that it be looked at and placed higher on the priority box of things that need attention.

Or maybe suggest that CS get a policy revamp, which might cost the company far less ;)

Thank you again Mad for being on our side.

[Ulurjah]

While bags can get lost due to bugs, that was not the case in this situation

Did you read the same op I did? His bag went poof due to a bug.

[Thalmor]

How did you arrive at those TP values?

Why should we have to pay extra for what should be part of the service?

Once it's been verified that something like this has happened, players should be able to submit a ticket and have their character replaced with a recent backup.

Yes this should be a service that should be supplied not a paid service ( Pay to Win ). If something goes wrong with you character you should have a restore point to return to ( either a save point or maybe a login point, upto a limit of say 5 save/log points)

[Cyr]

May be there should be a new feature for 595 TP from the character login screen:

[Backup your character]: can be back up as much times as you like with the feature purchased.

And for 2000 TP: [Restore your character from latest backup] Can be activated once per paid TP.

Are you seriously suggesting that Turbine profit when their program has a major bug in it that hurts their users experience?

A user had an amusing term for this sort of thing...crippleware where you pay a company to correct the problems they put into their own program.

[Kraak]

mad has pm'd me to get more info and i'm waiting on CS to get back to me before anything drastic.

+1 +1 +1 +1 to Mad - if everything went down as stated, then I hope you get your gear back and hope this triggers some thought/dedicated time to provide CS a better way to help the folks that run into nasty bugs of this nature.

[Lifespawn]

While bags can get lost due to bugs, that was not the case in this situation, and Mad can only do so much with his time. It is neither his call to fix the problem, or within his authority to change corporate policy as to how CS handles situations like this.

However it is good to know that he is on our side in this situation, as I am sure if he (or anyone) called the CS department, they would want to be helped, not shoved away and told "Tough Luck" which means, While maybe he can't make the call to spend corporate resources looking into the problem, he can suggest that it be looked at and placed higher on the priority box of things that need attention.

Or maybe suggest that CS get a policy revamp, which might cost the company far less ;)

Thank you again Mad for being on our side.

This WAS a bug i was NOT exploiting had been running a ton of challenges and had my inventory full of these supply crates thought it was just like every other overflow click till full sell then repeat till all used up.

It seemed to work that way but my bag was gone.

[macubrae]

May be there should be a new feature for 595 TP from the character login screen:

[Backup your character]: can be back up as much times as you like with the feature purchased.

And for 2000 TP: [Restore your character from latest backup] Can be activated once per paid TP.

This would never work, it would be too exploitable. It would be a way to double rare unbound items and money. Save, transfer items to someone else, load back-up with all items. Not going to happen. You would be better off begging the devs every day for them to reimburse your stuff until they squelched you.

Be mindful of the OP's 'CAUTION' and don't overload you inventory, because once it's gone, there is little that anyone WILL do. Sorry it happened and thank you for letting those of us who never heard of this, know about it.

[countfitz]

Nothing personal pointing at you.

I was just suggesting a solution on demand. It was an on demand restore solution instead of waiting on Customer Support.

Turbine currently charges $20.00 for the restore service anyways. 2000TP is pretty close to the called $20.00 service.

Wait, seriously? They can fix stuff like this for $20? So the OP could just spend $20 and fix the problem? I'm not saying it's right, (the shock in my tone is that this is the first I've heard about this, not that he shouldn't be peeved) but he CAN?

Since when?

[countfitz]

Also, isn't what the OP did (maybe accidentally) that thing we're not supposed to talk about?

[Diyon]

Wait, seriously? They can fix stuff like this for $20? So the OP could just spend $20 and fix the problem? I'm not saying it's right, (the shock in my tone is that this is the first I've heard about this, not that he shouldn't be peeved) but he CAN?

Since when?

They are referring to the relatively recent character recovery service. You can pay $20 to restore a deleted character, even one from years ago. However, based on other posts here, it seems that you don't get the equipment back? Or maybe nothing in bags?

[Ulurjah]

They are referring to the relatively recent character recovery service. You can pay $20 to restore a deleted character, even one from years ago. However, based on other posts here, it seems that you don't get the equipment back? Or maybe nothing in bags?

My guess is that you get back whatever was on the final save state of the character before it was deleted. In this case, deleting his character and paying the fee likely wouldn't help Life out very much.

[Diyon]

My guess is that you get back whatever was on the final save state of the character before it was deleted. In this case, deleting his character and paying the fee likely wouldn't help Life out very much.

I was referring to the poster that was talking about deleting multiple characters and accidently picked the wrong one, and when restored none of the characters had anything.

[Lifespawn]

Also, isn't what the OP did (maybe accidentally) that thing we're not supposed to talk about?

no what i was doing wasn't exploiting i was merely running quests and got overloaded with the crates thats not the exploit which we can't speak about anyway.

if it was mad wouldn't have come into the thread they would have just locked or removed my post.

[countfitz]

Ah, well, since they don't let us talk about Lord Voldemort (get it, he who shall not be named as a reference to exploits, since we cannot name them?)(Get it?) (cricket) it's hard to tell what the actual Voldemort was, and what was just kinda a bug that possibly had to do with Lord Voldemort. But to me, not knowing the specifics, it seems tied to the same bug, no?

[Ulurjah]

Ah, well, since they don't let us talk about Lord Voldemort (get it, he who shall not be named as a reference to exploits, since we cannot name them?)(Get it?) (cricket) it's hard to tell what the actual Voldemort was, and what was just kinda a bug that possibly had to do with Lord Voldemort. But to me, not knowing the specifics, it seems tied to the same bug, no?

If it happened the way life says it did (and I believe him), then no, it's not tied to the exploit.

[Lifespawn]

Update turbine has replaced my bag.

Thank you very much for the return it took awhile but i assume that was you making sure about the items inside.

[stainer]

Update turbine has replaced my bag.

Thank you very much for the return it took awhile but i assume that was you making sure about the items inside.

Holy Smokes! Nice move Turbine.

[Galeria]

Update turbine has replaced my bag.

Thank you very much for the return it took awhile but i assume that was you making sure about the items inside.

THIS is big news!! What an awesome update for this post. Thanks for letting us know.

[waterboytkd]

Wow. That's awesome, dude.

[Aelonwy]

Update turbine has replaced my bag.

Thank you very much for the return it took awhile but i assume that was you making sure about the items inside.

Good for you. And really, really good for Turbine. This greatly restores my faith in their integrity. So kudos turbine!

[Callavan]

Update turbine has replaced my bag.

Thank you very much for the return it took awhile but i assume that was you making sure about the items inside.

THIS is the kind of class I keep hoping to see coming from Turbine. Glad to see it finally happening. It needs to keep happening if WB/Turbine wants to turn things around for DDO.

It isn't that hard, really. Two main steps:

1. Listen to the customer wot paid for your services.
2. Make the customer happy that they paid you for your services.
3. Repeat. Customer stays happy and keeps paying for your services.

Looking forward to more of that, Turbine. We'll see.

[LucidLTS]

Update turbine has replaced my bag.

Awesome! I didn't think there was the remotest chance of that, I am very glad to be proven wrong.

To whatever Turbine employees participated in this recovery, nice job, we need more like you. You are a credit to your company and a friend to the user community.

Wow.

[Qaliya]

Glad to see this too. No matter how much Turbine may frustrate at times, it is showing that you care that really matters, and they did that here.

Good job. :)

[umeannothing]

Update turbine has replaced my bag.

Thank you very much for the return it took awhile but i assume that was you making sure about the items inside.


That is truly jaw dropping news! I am still trying to process this turn of events.

Now if only they would return my Admirals Tricorn to my PM!

I am truly happy to see they have done the right thing here, maybe there is a chance for hope in the future for all the others that will lose things to get it back!


EDIT: was everything in the bag? Nothing missing that mattered?

[Cendaer]

Do not let supply crates from the challenge quests stack up in your inventory and go to open them and sell all the **** at once.

Worried about weight i didn't open the crates so i wouldn't get bogged down so i had 40-50 of them in my inventory because you know how much you have to grind those challenges to make the items you want.

So i opened them and sold all the **** off making a few hundred thousand plat couple good items and even 2 +2 tomes it was a good haul.

Log off last night all happy i had a productive 4-5 hours of questing in made a good dent in the ing i needed to craft these new items.

Log in today and go to my mailbox to grab a scroll that my loot sales from last night had allowed me to afford it goes to my inventory no bag message thought it was odd so i went to check my ing bag but could not find it.

Took every item from my inventory and moved it to another spot thinking it had gotten hidden nothing empty my bank to check the same thing nothing.

My gargantuan bag that i bought and was bound to char is gone it had every single ing in it that was not bound to char hundreds of scrolls over 200 epic dungeon/raid tokens 15+ scales and stones all of my seals shards the new challenge quest ing everything.

I'm not much of a rage quitter but this was everything i had years of grinding all gone.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.





UPDATE BAG WAS RETURNED TODAY THANK YOU TURBINE

They should do this to exploiters, all except that last part in red...

[AtomicMew]

Turbine, why do we even these supply creates? Getting dozens of these in certain challenges will over-flow almost anybody, and for what, 99% vendor trash which just takes up time to sell? How about just giving us plat, or more ingredients, or even just making the supply crates stack-able in inventory?

[Cyr]

Update turbine has replaced my bag.

Thank you very much for the return it took awhile but i assume that was you making sure about the items inside.

Wow bud I am amazed.

You are the first person that I know of who has had their bag returned.

[mystafyi]

UPDATE BAG WAS RETURNED TODAY THANK YOU TURBINE


Excellent news. now Turbine set a precident to replace items lost via the shared bank bug.

or was this just because it was a store bought item?

[Cyr]

Excellent news. now Turbine set a precident to replace items lost via the shared bank bug.

or was this just because it was a store bought item?

I think it much more likely it was because the OP got some attention from their posts on the forums from a developer who thought that it was indeed lame and went above their particular job function to do right by the customer.

To take this as a sign that lost item policy has changed seems like too much of an extrapolation to me until we see evidence that this is the new policy.

[umeannothing]

I think it much more likely it was because the OP got some attention from their posts on the forums from a developer who thought that it was indeed lame and went above their particular job function to do right by the customer.

To take this as a sign that lost item policy has changed seems like too much of an extrapolation to me until we see evidence that this is the new policy.


This is exactly what I thought as well when I saw he got it back, then my second thought was "that was cool of you MadF"

[BOgre]

Applause.

+1 Turbine.

[PurdueDave]

Update turbine has replaced my bag.

Thank you very much for the return it took awhile but i assume that was you making sure about the items inside.
It's a Festivus Miracle.

[EnjoyTheJourney]

I'll add my voice to the list of those who is glad this was ultimately resolved in a just way.

The "we're not going to help you" response received earlier should never have been given. Very bad form by those who responded in that way, but kudos to the DDO online employee(s) who decided not to stand by the original decision to be unhelpful.

[katz]

http://www.someworthwhilequotes.com/images/graphics/applause.gif

awesome news!

[Psiandron]

Update turbine has replaced my bag.

Thank you very much for the return it took awhile but i assume that was you making sure about the items inside.

:eek:
Great news. I'm happy for you and I hope this marks a new era in CS here in DDOland.

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j339/Psiandron/thyeehaw.gif

[Yalina]

UPDATE BAG WAS RETURNED TODAY THANK YOU TURBINE


Superb!!

[slimkj]

Update turbine has replaced my bag.

Thank you very much for the return it took awhile but i assume that was you making sure about the items inside.
Pleased to hear it. Nice work, Turbine.

[Taryana]

It seems that the same happened to me. I play challenges with two chars only, and after getting lots of ingreds, I made a pause to distribute them to one char to see the figures, ie what I can count with.

The first thing I noticed is that there should have been more of them, so I checked all chars & all green bags, but couldnt find the green bag with epic tokens, boot ingreds, challenge ingreds, shroud ingreds and who knows what else.

Fortunatelly, it was a green bag, but SUCH A LOSS DO HURT!!! I will recheck chars, and then decide what to do.

[Taryana]

I will recheck chars, and then decide what to do.

Just not to forget to mention - a strange graphical bug occured - the icon of the one of inventory items (Royal Guard Mask) was shown in all ten slots in the same bar!

[Backley]

Just not to forget to mention - a strange graphical bug occured - the icon of the one of inventory items (Royal Guard Mask) was shown in all ten slots in the same bar!

Did you have that bar set to each of the teleport locations from the mask's menu? If so, moving the mask out of your inventory and back would do what you describe (when the item isn't in your inventory, the hotbar icons change to grey 'Royal Guard Mask' icons, and don't switch back to the sub-menu icon when the mask is returned to your inventory).

[Taryana]

Did you have that bar set to each of the teleport locations from the mask's menu?

No, I didnt. It was a strange effect I noticed when my inventory got overflown.
BTW I dont think this is fixed as Life stated - still missing my bag :(

[Phoenix-daBard]

No, I didnt. It was a strange effect I noticed when my inventory got overflown.
BTW I dont think this is fixed as Life stated - still missing my bag :(

MM posted that the patch is still pending. If you haven't already, bug it. It is the only way to flag it for customer service to reconstruct it for you.

[HawkFest]

I felt like giving my 2 cents, even though the couple of years old this thread is (I've lost a bag a month ago, but not enough was lost for me to go rampaging around forums or even spend efforts in dealing with bug tickets and client service).

There is absolutely no excuse for the game to eat years of someone's rewards and for them to say "nothing we can do about it." ... what they really mean is that it's not worth the cost to do it for us.
Agreed, although I can't comment about "what they think" or really meant.


One week of one coder's time and they could have a tool coded that would allow their support staff to help people. Make restoration free to VIP's and have a nominal fee for Premium players. Problem solved.
LMAO!! That would be the most creative way to capitalise upon incompetency... "don't repair it, and make people pay for them getting back their stuff, like we're Mafia boys"... The abuse from Turbine's side would be too obvious, as stealing is a bad thing.

[Cordovan]

/necro