Have you noticed

[MaximusParthas]

A decidedly small number of clerics as compared to maybe 3 months ago? Even fewer favored souls as well. forming raids/party's are often impossible due to the lack of divines.
W the introduction of arti and now it's maturity in the game (tr's, geared out, practiced) I can understand some of the reduction in the # of capable healers. But in any case the results are (IMO) it's like the entire server is being held hostage for lack of heals.
Orien could be so much more vibrant but for this current issue. Tons of great players at all levels, Good people and just enough drama to keep it interesting. Yet here we are. cancelling LFM's (guild or pug) like it's a hobby we're trying to perfect.
I would surmise our server is not unique in this issue. And I'm sure others have they're own ideas on how to solve the problem. (if they see it as a problem that is).
FVS already had a real nice nerf. they're good. But not clerics. So again, just my inexperienced opinion.
There is no real appeal to playing a cleric atm. They are long overdue for some love.
So here's my suggestion. Give them the earthquake spell. Make it class specific. More people would play that class, more groups would be balanced and turbine would have more happy TP purchasing customers perpetually distracted in zombie like focus and rapt attention.

[Seventh]

The forums have had this thread many a time before, so I'm just going to list all the responses you're going to get over the next 50 posts or so:

1) The divines are out there, they're just hiding form the pugs (which tend to be very rough on them, especially when it comes to raids). They run with guildies, friends and channel members. Or solo.

2) If you want a divine, you should roll one.

3) Divines need no love, they're the best classes in the game.

I used to feel rather confused about the lack of pugging divines myself until I was told to try one. I stick to self-sufficient arcanes nowadays, God bless those with the patience to heal.

[MaximusParthas]

I used to feel rather confused about the lack of pugging divines myself until I was told to try one. I stick to self-sufficient arcanes nowadays, God bless those with the patience to heal

Exactly. Bet a lot feel the same way. And I'm familiar with guild only clerics. But even in our guild (THC) no one really wants to play the healer. Likely for the reason you stated.

[Seventh]

Exactly. Bet a lot feel the same way. And I'm familiar with guild only clerics. But even in our guild (THC) no one really wants to play the healer. Likely for the reason you stated.

It does turn off a lot of folks from the class, but I actually mostly agree with the above points- there's no real shortage overall, it's just an issue with pugs (never had a problem in-guild myself). If you're looking at a shortage of healers in your guild, and not just in pugs, that's more of a problem. Gotta either build a rep as good folks to pug with or encourage your members to get into the class- not easy either way, especially if your guildies have had rough experiences while playing the class. Best of luck to you.

[MaximusParthas]

It does turn off a lot of folks from the class, but I actually mostly agree with the above points- there's no real shortage overall, it's just an issue with pugs (never had a problem in-guild myself). If you're looking at a shortage of healers in your guild, and not just in pugs, that's more of a problem. Gotta either build a rep as good folks to pug with or encourage your members to get into the class- not easy either way, especially if your guildies have had rough experiences while playing the class. Best of luck to you.

We have plenty of healers in guild. They simply are tired of the class or don't find it as entertaining as other classes. Not to mention the whole raid boss supernerf that made divines use pots via iv tubes. I think my perspective comes from tr'ing. I went solo and got to spend time in pugworld. Then in addition even with a guild of good people, talented players, high level & established reputation we find it hard to get outside healers to join raids for the same reasons. Mind you we've only got 20 active accounts so 12 aren't always available. I've been around about 2 years. There have been periods where people loved playing clerics. Nowadays i don't see that. But rather than complain I'm seeking a solution to the problem i perceive (even if it's apparently cyclical). Plus wouldn't having earthquake as an in game spell be soooo cool?

[Seventh]

We have plenty of healers in guild. They simply are tired of the class or don't find it as entertaining as other classes. Not to mention the whole raid boss supernerf that made divines use pots via iv tubes. I think my perspective comes from tr'ing. I went solo and got to spend time in pugworld. Then in addition even with a guild of good people, talented players, high level & established reputation we find it hard to get outside healers to join raids for the same reasons. Mind you we've only got 20 active accounts so 12 aren't always available. I've been around about 2 years. There have been periods where people loved playing clerics. Nowadays i don't see that. But rather than complain I'm seeking a solution to the problem i perceive (even if it's apparently cyclical). Plus wouldn't having earthquake as an in game spell be soooo cool?

I see- I'm in a large guild, so this has never been quite that much of a problem for me. I didn't mean to come off as dismissive of your problem, it's just, well, this conversation has come up before and it never goes anywhere. Adding some new tricks to the divine classes would be cool and would attract some temporary attention, but it wouldn't fix the fundamental problem (that healing oftentimes feels like an unrewarding chore to many players). I don't think it's a problem that Turbine can fix; it's just mostly the nature of the class (you see something similar in many other MMO's) perhaps aggravated by the fact that in D&D, healers often don't need other players nearly as much as other players often need them. It takes a certain kind of player to actually enjoy the healing role, and if you can't find any of them...

[SemiraLynn]

In the online games that I've played I've always enjoyed healing. While I'll always call my Wizard my "main" (in part to her being my first real character), I tend to spend most of my idling time on my Favored Soul when I'm looking for something to do. I have no guild and a pretty small friend's list so the vast majority of my groups are with pugs. As a "healer" (hard to call a Favored Soul just a healer) when it comes to raids there are a lot of things that can turn me off joining the lfm.

From the perspective of this healer:

Abbot:
Since update 9 I haven't done a single Abbot raid. I had only gotten to do the raid a handful of times before that and never really learned much about the puzzles. Since the recent updates, all groups seem to have the same expectation of everyone knowing everything and being beyond awesome. There is no learning curve for that raid anymore and I definitely won't subject myself to people who treat the game like a business. Unless the raid advertised "Piking Nannybot needed" I don't think the raid would want me and I probably wouldn't want them. Fortunately, most of the rare Abbot lfms I see are usually well populated with divines.

Shroud:
I haven't had the chance to do a post-u12 Shroud, but I'd imagine the only thing that would make me want to avoid clicking an lfm would be the concern that the party would expect me to drink a dozen pots (specifically if it was on Elite). Once my pots are gone they're gone and they will take time to replenish themselves. I never ask anyone to give me pots (and really...nobody ever does). Anything beyond normal I would have to avoid unless I had a large supply of pots at that moment.

VoD:
I like VoD. I run VoD on normal a lot and even tank it sometimes. I'm pretty comfortable with this raid and if I ever saw an lfm that needed me (and like above if I had a comfortable amount of pots) I'd probably join an Elite run.

HoX:
The only thing that keeps me from joining HoX groups is that every single pug I join fails. It would be easy to say it's my fault being the only common element in each run, but they don't fail from lack of healing. When we're 15 minutes in and slowly beaten down by swarms of beholders while the mother hound is at 75% and people are killing the dogs...it's not lack of healing.

ToD, MA, LoB, epic raids:
A lot of raids, and pretty much all epic raids turn me off simply by the lfm. They are typically posted by the “this game is all business and no fun” crowd and even if I am capable of helping the group succeed the attitude of a lot of high end players leaves me irritated. Know-it-all attitudes, "everyone should have X gear!!!", and condecending responses get old really fast. I've almost never see an epic anything with a positive lfm. It's always “know me”, “have a clue”, “no n00bs”, “don't be gimp”. Even if the raid is flawless and everyone gets hoards of loot, it's just not fun playing with those kind of players.

For me at least, it's not the changes to the game that make me not want to heal groups. It's how those groups respond to the changes.

Also, Earthquake would be cool.

[karl_k0ch]

Exactly. Bet a lot feel the same way. And I'm familiar with guild only clerics. But even in our guild (THC) no one really wants to play the healer. Likely for the reason you stated.

I enjoy running PUG epics with your guild's best* healer. :)

*that is, to my knowledge.

And Re: popular healers: I frequently see pugs with Smash, Romp, and Durk in them. Sometimes even Kath. No full names here, but if you know how I mean, you know who I mean.

[LordMond63]

True, this topic has been raised before and more than once.

But might the reason that it is being brought up yet again at least in part be because the core problem has not been addressed?

I play two Clerics who are primarily healers and that's by choice. I tend to play healer types in all the MMOs I've ever played because I enjoy the challenge of keeping a group alive (or at least minimizing fatalities). I do carry a few offensive spells but I very rarely use them because, while many, if not most, other classes have better dps than I have, few, if any, have better hps- that's "healing per second"- than I do, so I choose to contribute to the party's success in the ways in which I am most efficient.

But you know....I do get a bit tired of receiving the blame when things go wrong. Sometimes I have to make a snap judgement as to which character lives and which dies because I can only heal one of you. It's nothing personal if you weren't my choice in that particular circumstance so please don't blame me. I'll get you back up as soon as the situation permits. I might also not be able to remove your curse or cure your disease in the middle of a boss fight if I am the only healer. Please be patient.

But it's not only player behavior that drives this Cleric to drink Boone's Farm. Changes to the game, even before now, have made things a bit more difficult for me. Bosses have more tools to use against us, such as higher hit points, fortification and, it seems, somewhat enhanced AI. My healing capabilities, meanwhile, are stagnant- no better now than before these changes. Yes, spell point cost for various healing spells was dramatically reduced a few updates ago but not the ones that see the most use in endgame- Heal and Mass Heal. Quest and Raid difficulty might scale, but my healing has not.

Don't get me wrong- I'm not whining so much as stating the obvious (or at least what I hope is obvious), and I'm not demanding that this or that change. For all the challenge of playing a heal-based Cleric, I still find the class fun to play.....occasionally. But as my main? Uh-uh...too thankless an endeavor for regular playing.

[Solmage]

If people stop trying to complete on the backs of clerics drinking pots, perhaps people will want to play divines more. As it is, I don't want to pug even my arcanes, never mind anything else.

I would play one, but you wouldn't like it, because I WOULD let you fail if you required a pot to complete quest X. Guild or not, it seems people haven't gotten it through their head that no, mana pots are not supposed to be the norm when running something. If you are requiring them, then you're not good enough for content X, whether it's style of play, tactics, gear, experience, whatever.

(And I don't mean you personally, just the general 'you' :))

[weewoo0]

see the reason i dont play my healer as much anymore is because of the expectation of pots. I use pots when I feel it is necessary. I dont care if YOU think i should pot. if i end up potting in a pug its because its either MY fault or because i know a few people in the run and as such I want the run to succeed not because YOU think i should pot. (note this is a generic you. not a you you parthas i've always played nicely in THC runs).
That's 1 reason why i dont pug him as much.
the other is even more simple. He doesn't need anything. Healers gear themselves so quickly that its not even funny. Its not like they need anything really complex to finish their setup (note: i play a convoluted build so yes mine took a while... meleevoker ftw) so very quickly it goes from needing gear creating a desire to run a raid to having the only reason to run a raid be fun. And i'm sorry but being blamed for all the failings of the raid and being required to pick up the tab? thats just not fair.

tl;dr : healers dont show up because pugs aren't friendly enough to figure out that its not always their fault.

tl;dl the tl;dr : pugs suck.

[DakFrost]

I have never understood why anyone would willingly play a "healer". Don't get me wrong, I give anyone that plays a healing spec'd divine a lot of respect for their patience and attentiveness but I can't see how nanny bot-ing other people can be fun.

I've tried, and have only managed to make it to the mid levels, 11-14, before giving up out of frustration. Being held responsible for the actions of others, being expected to support those actions at your expense, and taking the blame for their failures isn't my idea of a good time.

Now granted, the majority of players probably do take responsibility for their own characters and have at least a basic amount of self sufficiency, but there are still plenty of "healz now!" guys out there to make playing a "healer" seem more like a baby sitting job then a game.

So thanks to all the "healers" out there still willing to do the job.

[Gawdzilla]

I must say I find a lot of ppl who complain about the lack of healing classes available to heal them and their parties in pug situations don't actually play a divine of any type themselves. Want more divines available to the server roll one up, they're actually a ton of fun to play.

[PNellesen]

For me, 99% of the pugs I run are enjoyable, fun experiences. It's that other 1% that sometimes destroys my desire to ever heal a pug again. The ones where the party leader screams at you over voice chat to "please heal the party and not fight" when you're standing with the melees in an Elite VoD, shield blocking while keeping your aura going trying to save SP for the big fight at the end (and where the only death is due to a player not drinking their remove curse pot), or the guy who calls you a "moron" for daring to click on his normal Shroud LFM (pre-U12) with a 19C/1F, or the leader who berates you over party chat for not healing in a Shroud where the lag is so bad that it takes 10 seconds to switch weapon sets and you're teleporting from one side of the room to the other...