3BC & Ataraxia's & a few others

[Captain_Wizbang]

Since the devs trend towards developing events & challenges seem to be taking precedent over what this game is built on, (hand crafted quests) they should seriously consider revamping or upgrading the classic areas, to make them more in line with the new BB & over-populated weapons & gear tables.

I realize all the code work that's involved, but the time being spent on non-relevant questing is taking away from what you really need to be working on. (New content & upgrading certain areas.)

ALL of our wilderness areas need some dev love. And while you're at it, put a castle or a keep in "The Hills" so we can lay siege to it, like you all promoted over 2 years ago.


Just a thought, Id like to hear from the players, what areas could be re-worked & how.

[FlimsyFirewood]

Woa, hold on a minute. Which one is it?

New content?

Or upgrading the old areas?

[dunklezhan]

Woa, hold on a minute. Which one is it?

New content?

Or upgrading the old areas?

Yes.

though personally, I vote the latter. 3bc needs love like a kobold needs shinies.

[Bonulino]

I would love to see Searing Heights reworked. It's a fun place to explore, but it's short of loot and there is only one quest in the area. Also, it's odd that the Searing Heights wilderness area is FtP, but the quest in the area in PtP

[Symar-FangofLloth]

A properly upgraded old area in need is practically new content.

[Galeria]

+1 to upgrading existing areas!

3BC, Ataraxia and Searing Heights are all very cool areas that could use some love.

[brian14]

And while you're at it, put a castle or a keep in "The Hills" so we can lay siege to it, like you all promoted over 2 years ago.
What does that mean? Castle in Cerulean Hills?

Who promised it and when?

[oradafu]

Personally, I think 3BC is fine, except it needs an XP adjustment (upwards) and some loot. Maybe a teleporter similar to GH as some suggest, but I think just moving some of the questgivers near the enterance would be work fine, such as Prove Your Worth (although that's one of the closer quests).

Ataraxia and Searing Heights both feel like they could have additional quests added to the areas.

I've never heard that Cerulean Hills was suppose to have a keep. That does seem like a nice addition to the area. Personally, I've always thought that the Hills might work as a location for a high level siege on Stormreach by Goblins.

Threnal needs a real slayer area when it gets some love. At least fix the flagging, please.

Another expanded wilderness area that I would love to see is Black Anvil Forest. I'd love to see more quests there and a slayers area.

Now, the main problem with these suggestions is that they are for the areas that need the least amount of attention: levels 2~10. The Black Anvil could be stretched a bit further...but it would still not help the levels that need more XP and quests: 14 and higher.

[somenewnoob]

+1 to upgrading existing areas!

3BC, Ataraxia and Searing Heights are all very cool areas that could use some love.

I agree. These areas are really cool and fun to run around in and explore, but so few people go there because there isn't much reason to. I've always really enjoyed fully exploring each explorer zone, finding all rares and explorer points......and I have fond memories of these 3, especially 3BC which I still say is the most kick ass awesome explorer area in the game.

[madmaxhunter]

/snip
Now, the main problem with these suggestions is that they are for the areas that need the least amount of attention: levels 2~10. The Black Anvil could be stretched a bit further...but it would still not help the levels that need more XP and quests: 14 and higher. /snip

Agreed, but they could add high(er) level content in those areas. Separate chains, maybe across ALL wilderness areas? Oh, lightbulb oer ma head!

Wouldn't it be fun to have to stop assaults across all slayer areas, starting with Korthos? Maybe they could tweak the gameplay so that the group/raid has to make it between each area in a given time frame? seeing 12 level 14-16 players racing through the harbor to the Hills would be a hoot.

[sebastianosmith]

+1 to upgrading existing areas!

3BC, Ataraxia and Searing Heights are all very cool areas that could use some love.

Searing Heights got a slight upgrade with Sentinels of Stormreach. I think it's fine at level and has some important lessons for new players learning how to run an effective character. Plus, it's a relatively easy and F2P slayer completion.

3BC - Without a doubt that area needs some love. The scenery alone draws me back at least once per character (and I'm a slight alt-o-holic). Better, more up-to-date loot would be a nice start. One truly Grand Adventure (i.e. more than heading back to the Fire Caves) of three parts and a raid needs to be added with some at-level (5-7) loot comparable to Chronoscope. That might give new players a chance to get familiar with raid flagging and a reason to buy the pack.

Ataraxia's Haven - Good lord yes! Give that island some love! Once again lovely scenery, yet there are but two quests on the whole thing neither of which are terribly exciting or worthwhile. At level the slayer options are at best "meh". Why not include a quest line about the Duergar and their origins? Might clear up some of the confusion surrounding them and expose a sinister plot involving House D...

[AmatsukaIncarnate]

I've always really liked Ataraxia but there was little reason to go there since there are only two quests...I'd love to see it expanded...

Searing Heights and Cerulean Hills are both kind of in the same boat (CH less so since it's at a level that is saturated with content).

I'd love to see an update to Threnal, 3BC, Restless Isles and maybe Necro 1-3 (3 less so but still...). Those packs really need some love in comparison to other packs and especially the newer ones. I really really enjoy the newer packs and would love to see ALL content in the game be put at that level of detail.

[Rydlic]

Woa, hold on a minute. Which one is it?

New content?

Or upgrading the old areas?

I think, and this may just be me, that there is enough content in the 1-15 range now (heck i just cap'ed a second life character without doing much IQ, no Canith, no Reavers Refuge and no Shavarath). There is a huge amount of exp in the game. I would love to see some of the older content get a good polish: DM voice matching, appropriate loot that would give reason to run (other than exp).

The streak and bravery fixed the major issue of grind in the game, now lets look at making those less looked at pack a bit more spruced up. Take a look at the quest levels, there are quest that are run for exp and other that were made that are wonderful quest (challenging and exciting at times) that have a mind boggling low exp (2 spring to mind, Final quest in Catacombs, really you need to look at that. Easter Threnal Part 3, a 15 minute protection instant fail quest should never have that low of a base exp)

If one or two people could take a fresh look at a quest or two every update, this would be great. I know everyone begs and shouts for end game, but there is still the lead up to end game and if the journey is more fun then more TR's and more playing of quests. If anything, just give the code a good once over and maybe set it up for something in the future.

edit: prime example quest:
Stealthy Repossession.
This quest was designed and created to be stealthy the entire way. It was made when pulling leavers did not break stealth, when Dungeon Alert did not exist and when Invisibility was not broken unless you attacked. can you still stealth it, oh yeah, bout it takes 25-30 min. I can run it in 2 min zerg. A small change, replace the leavers and doors with presure plates or some such. Being able to knock out the prophets (kinda like Coyle) or something. Do I think that Stealthy Repossession needs weeks of work, no. It is an example of a quest made for a different game, when the main mechanic just does not work anymore.

[Aashrym]

Woa, hold on a minute. Which one is it?

New content?

Or upgrading the old areas?

More new content, but feel free to add some of it old explorer zones. ;)

[somenewnoob]

3BC......high level end game raid involving warring pirate fleets.

That is all.

[Coldin]

Woa, hold on a minute. Which one is it?

New content?

Or upgrading the old areas?

In the case of 3BC? Yes, it needs some love. Awesome area, and even awesome quests. But it really lacks both good loot and good xp, which other quest packs have in droves. It's also a huge pain to cross the cove for all the various quests which isn't as big of a problem at later levels with buffs like haste.

Plus, since it's at the level 3-7 range, it's competing with a lot of other content, and most players will simply fly by that level range. I've said for a while that it really should be raised up a few levels. Give players something else to run around level 7-10.

As for Ataraxia. I think it's okay. It could maybe use a few extra quests, make it feel like you actually make a difference in restoring the island resort. But beyond that, the explorer area is pretty fun and good xp.

[Gratch]

ALL of our wilderness areas need some dev love. And while you're at it, put a castle or a keep in "The Hills" so we can lay siege to it, like you all promoted over 2 years ago.


Yes! A castle we can siege and kill minotaurs. Not just some minotaurs... but a ton of minotaurs.... and once we're done with that... even more of them. Also add in trebuchets that can fling us into the castle!!!! Also make it so we can take the castle by storm or by stealth.

Roundabout thanking the devs for Frame Work. That said, another new content quest using said trebuchets would be fun. Let me fire kobolds off them. Or fire enraged minotaurs at giants. Something in the L18 range. I'd prefer new content over reworked explorers.... especially ones like 3BC that were already REWORKED.

[somenewnoob]

Yes! A castle we can siege and kill minotaurs. Not just some minotaurs... but a ton of minotaurs.... and once we're done with that... even more of them. Also add in trebuchets that can fling us into the castle!!!! Also make it so we can take the castle by storm or by stealth.

Roundabout thanking the devs for Frame Work. That said, another new content quest using said trebuchets would be fun. Let me fire kobolds off them. Or fire enraged minotaurs at giants. Something in the L18 range. I'd prefer new content over reworked explorers.... especially ones like 3BC that were already REWORKED.

No no no......if we get more trebuchets they have to use HALFLINGS as ammo!

[Theolin]

3BC / Atrax .... I never go to them because it takes way to long to run around and get to the quest it always feels as though it takes a 1/2 hour to get anywhere, yes its pretty, its just way way too big to run around in. I feel this way about sands to but put up with it to flag for DQ ... but I only run out to the far quests because I have to not because I actually like to.

Some of the dislike also comes from playing chars with blue bars ... you waste 1/4 or more to get to the ones in 3BC or Atrax then have no easy (close) way to refill before starting the quest, just adds another annoyance to them, wasted time I don't want to waste in that way.

[countfitz]

Before complaining, just want to say really looking forward to tomorrows update, wife can't wait to try out some new clothes :) and I can't wait for the new challenges (TOWER DEFENSE!)

That said, I'm fine if the devs want to update some lower level things, especially the ones we don't run too often. 3BC is one of the wife's favorites, but we NEVER run it because there is 1) no reason to 2) it takes way to long to get anywhere and 3) by the time we get to it, we're way past level.

But I really don't see the need to add anything in any of those packs, areas, etc. They are just too low level to begin with and there is already an overabundance of low level stuff. I skip so much, on TRs, and I only run every quest once on elite and move on (really hate grinds). And I still skipped a lot of low level stuff, with banking XP, and now I'm at level 15 and thinking, SERIOUSLY, 6 quests?

The devs really need to be adding end level (to me, 15+) quests so that our TRs, that need almost exponentially more XP by those levels, have something to do that isn't grinding the same dozen quests over and over.

So fine with a polish up on the low level stuff, but really, end it at that. The low levels are done.

Just to end on a positive note: I was grinding TP (the wife is 100 TP under the price of the last pack) on Wayfinder, and ran Heyton's Crypt. I was like, WOW, how cool is this!?! A quest I'd done a hundred times, and look at how spiffy it is. Now that I can get behind. Spiffying up some quests. But we don't need new ones (at that level, and by "that level" I mean under level 15).

[Bladedge]

More new content, but feel free to add some of it old explorer zones. ;)

Add new mid and high level content to 3BC, Ataraxia's Haven, Searing Heights, Restless Isles.


3BC......high level end game raid involving warring pirate fleets.


or

Droaam arrives to make 3BC a new base of operations, their in inhabitants refuse to surrender.

[Jandric]

Before complaining, just want to say really looking forward to tomorrows update, wife can't wait to try out some new clothes :) and I can't wait for the new challenges (TOWER DEFENSE!)

That said, I'm fine if the devs want to update some lower level things, especially the ones we don't run too often. 3BC is one of the wife's favorites, but we NEVER run it because there is 1) no reason to 2) it takes way to long to get anywhere and 3) by the time we get to it, we're way past level.

But I really don't see the need to add anything in any of those packs, areas, etc. They are just too low level to begin with and there is already an overabundance of low level stuff. I skip so much, on TRs, and I only run every quest once on elite and move on (really hate grinds). And I still skipped a lot of low level stuff, with banking XP, and now I'm at level 15 and thinking, SERIOUSLY, 6 quests?

The devs really need to be adding end level (to me, 15+) quests so that our TRs, that need almost exponentially more XP by those levels, have something to do that isn't grinding the same dozen quests over and over.

So fine with a polish up on the low level stuff, but really, end it at that. The low levels are done.

Just to end on a positive note: I was grinding TP (the wife is 100 TP under the price of the last pack) on Wayfinder, and ran Heyton's Crypt. I was like, WOW, how cool is this!?! A quest I'd done a hundred times, and look at how spiffy it is. Now that I can get behind. Spiffying up some quests. But we don't need new ones (at that level, and by "that level" I mean under level 15).

It's true that we don't need more low level quests for xp, but it would be nice to have options to doing the harbor slog for the 451st time :p Adding new quests to old areas would be a way to do this and pull people into less populated areas of the game.

[BruceTheHoon]

Since the devs trend towards developing events & challenges seem to be taking precedent over what this game is built on, (hand crafted quests)

That's a wild assumption.
As prof. Yoda once tought me: One datapoint progression makes not.

On the other hand, I'd really like to have a greater motivation to run around 3bc and searing heights, because they are two of my favourite explorables. Rackham's challenge remains one of my favourite quests.
For 3bc it could be as simple as increasing the XP and/or planting a rowboat-teleporter that takes you to the other side of the island.
For searing heights, I don't know. Plant a xoriat infested drow skiing resort somewhere...

[sirgog]

Woa, hold on a minute. Which one is it?

New content?

Or upgrading the old areas?

A smallish amount of work would make Threnal, 3BC and other ignored areas feel new.

[Seikojin]

Personally, I think 3BC is fine, except it needs an XP adjustment (upwards) and some loot. Maybe a teleporter similar to GH as some suggest, but I think just moving some of the questgivers near the enterance would be work fine, such as Prove Your Worth (although that's one of the closer quests).

Ataraxia and Searing Heights both feel like they could have additional quests added to the areas.

I've never heard that Cerulean Hills was suppose to have a keep. That does seem like a nice addition to the area. Personally, I've always thought that the Hills might work as a location for a high level siege on Stormreach by Goblins.

Threnal needs a real slayer area when it gets some love. At least fix the flagging, please.

Another expanded wilderness area that I would love to see is Black Anvil Forest. I'd love to see more quests there and a slayers area.

Now, the main problem with these suggestions is that they are for the areas that need the least amount of attention: levels 2~10. The Black Anvil could be stretched a bit further...but it would still not help the levels that need more XP and quests: 14 and higher.

^this^

I definitely think Threnals flagging needs to be fixed. It is always a pain to run it because of that. And if not fixed, a better way to indicate where to go next.

[Galeria]

I gotta believe that adding quests/raids to existing wilderness areas is a whole lot faster/easier than creating entirely new zones.

And although they are low level explorer areas, nothing says you couldn't put higher level quests in them, particularly Searing Heights which only has the one quest now.

I am intrigued by the towers in Searing Heights and the fact that you can see into the Twelve from it's higher elevations. I'd love to see a Sul'atar theme storyline in that area, even if it meant that the slayers/quest level were not close. There is a whole center section that you currently cannot explore that contains some mysterious towers... and maybe the fire giant masters of the dark Sul'atar drow. You could actually put a higher level area in the center of Searing Heights with access to those towers and quests, eliminating the need for a long walk through lowbie territory.

[Aelonwy]

Please consider making these changes to 3BC, pretty please.

1. Pirate themed named loot... think crystal cove but far, far less uber.
2. Over-arching quest line/quest giver... think someone like the lead quest giver for Sharn Syndicate.
3. Major end quest or pirate style raid perhaps involving airships... personally I think something should be done with the giant white arch by the Rare Troll that doesn't even have an explorer location.
4. Have the intermittent quest givers (those the lead quest giver would point you to) teleport you to their respective quest locations (but only after you have them, say from one explorer run through) much like its done in Tangler Root.
5. Possibly, bumping the quest levels up abit thus the xp abit too, placing them more advantageously in the whole course of the game.

(I've made these suggestions before, and will keep making them.)

[FranOhmsford]

I gotta believe that adding quests/raids to existing wilderness areas is a whole lot faster/easier than creating entirely new zones.

And although they are low level explorer areas, nothing says you couldn't put higher level quests in them, particularly Searing Heights which only has the one quest now.

I am intrigued by the towers in Searing Heights and the fact that you can see into the Twelve from it's higher elevations. I'd love to see a Sul'atar theme storyline in that area, even if it meant that the slayers/quest level were not close. There is a whole center section that you currently cannot explore that contains some mysterious towers... and maybe the fire giant masters of the dark Sul'atar drow. You could actually put a higher level area in the center of Searing Heights with access to those towers and quests, eliminating the need for a long walk through lowbie territory.

I'm going to second this suggestion.

As to 3 Barrel:

Guard Duty is in town - no problem getting to that one.
Prove Your Worth/Rackham's Trial can be reached without fighting more than a Hyena or two and has a shrine outside it.
The Troglodyte's Get/Old Grey Garl can be reached without fighting anything - just run to bridge and drop to quest entrance {In water so u won't even take damage from the fall}.
The Legend of Two Toed Tobias and Ghost of a Chance can be swam to - No fighting whatsoever.
The Scoundrel's Run can be reached after the swim to Ghost of a chance by running up the hill - again not a single fight.
The Fire Caves are a different story - 5 bards, a hobgob and a couple of dogs outside town, bypass Orcs by running up hill thru Scorps {5 of them max} then run thru Fire Mephit Valley to quest clearing fire elemental on the way. Run back from quest to shrine if need be.

Seriously the complaining about getting to quests in 3 Barrel is way over the top - The only thing I would agree with is having The Minotaur appear outside the Fire Caves after pt 1 to save you having to run back to town and back in between {the same goes for the Garl's Tomb quests}.

The xp for quests apart from the Fire Caves isn't great but the slayer xp more than makes up for this in my view.

The loot NEEDS a huge boost though - Frankly the end rewards are a joke.

[MartinusWyllt]

No no no......if we get more trebuchets they have to use HALFLINGS as ammo!

You could tie up a bundle of halflings to use as ammo...halfling cluster bombs.

[dTarkanan]

3BC either needs a lot of loving or to cheapen itself a ton. It's 650 TP for the unlock- the same as the vale- for a bunch of quests with poor xp, drops, and next to no replayability.

[FranOhmsford]

3BC either needs a lot of loving or to cheapen itself a ton. It's 650 TP for the unlock- the same as the vale- for a bunch of quests with poor xp, drops, and next to no replayability.

I'd second the reduction in TP cost but I'd prefer they double the cost and add Crystal Cove to 3 Barrel year round.

[varusso]

Dont worry about adding new quests to 3BC. There are plenty . They are just not ran because there is a HUGE glut of quests in that level range, even before you consider the p2p content in that range.

Bump 3BC up to 15~17-ish. Add some loot worth running it to get at that level. Bump the price up to reflect the higher level content.

This solves a few problems:
(1) We get new high-end content that would be fun and challenging, in a level range that is actually needed.
(2) Players who have wasted TP on this pack would actually RUN it, just because it is in that level range. In its current level range, it is just a waste of server space; it is highly skippable, because the Xp is bunk, as is the loot, and there are WAY better quests to run for both loot AND xp in that range, now.
(3) We get "new" content without devs having to actually create a whole new zone and supporting quests/explorers. Some tweaks would be needed of course, and the loot would need to be revamped, but there is a good base there.

Bottom line, I would run this area if it were in a level range with loot and XP that made it actually WORTH running. As it is now, I just want my TP back for it.

[Falco_Easts]

New quests using existing outdoor area's would be my suggestion.

You enter Cerulean Hills as level 1-7 you see the 2(?) normal quests that are currently there.
Enter it as 8-14 and 3 more quests are available plus you fight minotaurs and ogres instead of hobgobs and bugbears.
Enter it as 15-20 and another 4 quests are available plus higher level mobs (blonde moment and can't think of any suitable for the environment at the moment).

Use seperate instances/maps, for each level range so the lower level characters cannot even see the higher level quests yet and the higher level characters get level appropriate mobs in the explorer area. Let the story arc continue on but grow in CR per the level range.

[Nagantor]

While those areas mentioned need updates: why do people suggest to move quests up in level just because we have more then required to level. You know, being able to choose a subset of quests and getting enough xp to reach 20 should be a goal. Why only have enough that you got to run all or repeat some?
Of course, currently the rewards and effort make some parts of the lower level choice not attractive at all.

[Elixxer]

They could add an adventure pack in Ataraxia, centered around that dra- I mean kobold. Heck they could even make them p2p quests while leaving the existing ones f2p.

[varusso]

While those areas mentioned need updates: why do people suggest to move quests up in level just because we have more then required to level. You know, being able to choose a subset of quests and getting enough xp to reach 20 should be a goal. Why only have enough that you got to run all or repeat some?
Of course, currently the rewards and effort make some parts of the lower level choice not attractive at all.

Because we have so many quests at low lvl (f2p and p2p), that a significant number of them are seldom run for anything other than favor -- IE at those higher levels. Or perhaps the occasional desperate multi-TR. Meanwhile, there is a decided lack of good quests at higher levels -- which is where the REAL bottleneck for XP on a TR actually occurs.

Having "choices" at low level doesnt really matter when the vast majority of players "choose" to not run those quests. Also, there is something to be said for more "choices" at higher level -- where we decidedly do NOT have many choices.

Now, when you are talking about PAID content that most players wouldnt even purchase, then its a waste of dev time AND a loss of revenue for them. So move it up to a level range where players WILL buy it and play, just because it is IN that level range.

[WizardMerrick]

Just a thought, Id like to hear from the players, what areas could be re-worked & how.

The shrine in Tomb of the Shadow Guard (Necro 2) shouldn't require a jump skill of 10+ to get to.

It's the *only* shrine in that quest and even with a 10~ish jump skill, you have to be EXACT due to the overhangs above your head preventing full height jumps, the tiny two-step running space you get to actually MAKE a jump, and the curved ledge you have to grab onto necessitating precise aim on the way down from the crux of the jump. I spent almost an hour trying jump after jump after jump to get up there. It completely ruined the quest for me.

Either add a second set of shrines or make that one accessible by everyone.

[Edwinge]

While we're talking about changing old packs, one change that I'd love to see is for the quests levels of chains to be condensed somewhat. It's really annoying to have the Tangleroot chain span from level 3 to level 7. There's no way to run the chain in one sitting and get bravery bonuses, let alone decent xp for all the quests (unless you are pretty low yourself). I'd rather see the entire chain be the same level or only span 2 levels (maybe 4 to 5, or all level 5).

The same treatment for Sorrowdusk would be great. Perhaps make the Grey Moon part level 7 and the Cult of the Six part level 8. That would be appropriate in a level 7 wilderness area.

In addition to other suggestions already made (i.e. flagging, xp, making it a real wilderness zone, etc.) Threnal could have it's levels adjusted as well. It's annoying to run two level 8s, a 10, then a 9, two more 10s, two more 9s to end with another level 10 quest. A good idea might be to make the outdoor into a real level 8 wilderness zone (there's not one at that level now) and then make the giant caves level 8 quests with the chain being all level 9. Also, give some favor for doing the giant caves, even if it's a tiny amount (1n,2h,3e even), but any amount would make them worth running and make the pack more desirable.

A level consolidation for Shan to Kor wouldn't be bad either. Perhaps leaving the Sacred Helm at 3 and making the chain all level 4 quests would work.

Also, make the chain in Delera's all the same level (or at least more condensed). The whole chain being level 6 (or 6-7) would be great.

I've not done the math on how many quests this would put at each level, so some adjustment to my numbers might be warranted. Regardless, I think an adjustment to quest chain levels similar to what I've laid out would go a long way to making many of them more desirable to run.

[Angelus_dead]

Woa, hold on a minute. Which one is it?
New content?
Or upgrading the old areas?
A good theoretical topic! Consider these two sample games:
Game X has 3 good quality sections, while Game Y has 4 good sections and 2 bad ones. Which game is better?
Although Game Y has a bigger amount of good content, it also has an infinitely higher ratio of bad parts: players who don't know any better will be in the bad areas around 30% of the time. Oftentimes audiences judge a work by the weakest element. It takes effort to sort out the good from the bad, and not all viewers will be willing to put up with that- so the creator is better off if he can make all of it something to be proud of.

On top of that, something like fixing the named loot in Three Barrel Cove should hopefully require just a tiny fraction of the effort of building a new area.

[Feithlin]

Duergars would make great epic ennemies. One quest could be added in Ataraxia with an epic version. It would be nice to have a connexion with the 2 black anvil forest quests (made to order and relic of a sovereign past), perhaps with a *real* epic holy avenger :)

*Edit: One problem could be to add epic content in a F2P area. But you could design a pack involving quests for all the houses. That could bring some nice stories.

[balancetraveller]

It's a real waste they made these large wilderness maps and let them sit there and rot. I mean, when was the last time you actually been to Cerulean Hills, or Searing Heights, and do something other than pressing R then auto-running to a quest?

A few ways to fix them:

- Make it mandatory to do something in the area to access the quests, eg. Subterrane (puzzle-solving / mob-cleaning)
- Add some good item drops, eg. Sands, Amrath (possible larges for the desperates)
- Make it possible to travel from one wilderness to another (so people can go on a wild killing spree)
- Anything that makes sense and makes them as great as the Vale (most successful wilderness area ever made, LFM constantly there solely for this)

[Arakiel]

Since the devs trend towards developing events & challenges seem to be taking precedent over what this game is built on, (hand crafted quests)

Um...

U8, U9, U10, U11....all had new hand crafted quests (and IMO some of the best our content guys have done), all within the last 12 months. Yet somehow we are trending towards events and challenges and not new quests?

[nibel]

Dont worry about adding new quests to 3BC. There are plenty . They are just not ran because there is a HUGE glut of quests in that level range, even before you consider the p2p content in that range.

Bump 3BC up to 15~17-ish. Add some loot worth running it to get at that level. Bump the price up to reflect the higher level content.

What about turning 3BC into something Devil-Assault-ish? Normal is level 5-7 (like it's now), hard level 13-15, and Elite 17-19. The loot? Crystal Cove stuff, or pieces. This is a very popular loot, and can be added to the normal game fulltime. So, normal quests drop level 4-8 loot, hard drops 12-16, and elite drops 16-20. All tier 1. We get gems and doubloons from chests and random killing in area and quests, and use it to upgrade. The trinkets may be very rare loot eardweller-style.

After all, with the challenges comming on U12, there is few reasons to bring back CC on a later date, since many challenges are CC with a new skin.

[Meetch1972]

Droaam arrives to make 3BC a new base of operations, their in inhabitants refuse to surrender.

Me like. This sort of thing could be done in a somewhat similar vein to Korthos island snowy/sunny side. Different editions of the same zone, with tweaks... it could be that a certain set of earlier 3BC quests are prerequisite to getting to the next chapter (having further quests or modes unlocked).

[RandomKeypress]

Um...

U8, U9, U10, U11....all had new hand crafted quests (and IMO some of the best our content guys have done), all within the last 12 months. Yet somehow we are trending towards events and challenges and not new quests?

Well, we went from zero challenges before CC, and now we're onto five or six (with Mabar off to one side). If this trend continues we'll be looking at hundreds of challenges a month by 2014! Stop this madness now! :-P

(Although I do agree that the recent content has been superb)

[brian14]

After all, with the challenges comming on U12, there is few reasons to bring back CC on a later date, since many challenges are CC with a new skin.
Are you saying U12 challenges provide you same loot as CC?

[nibel]

Are you saying U12 challenges provide you same loot as CC?

No, but quest-wise, many challenges are "guide a bunch of kobolds to gather crystals".

[flaggson]

Um...

U8, U9, U10, U11....all had new hand crafted quests (and IMO some of the best our content guys have done), all within the last 12 months. Yet somehow we are trending towards events and challenges and not new quests?

Wait a second... these are the forums.. no voices of reason allowed here :)

meh.. ignore the haters.. the new content has been superb

[dunklezhan]

Um...

U8, U9, U10, U11....all had new hand crafted quests (and IMO some of the best our content guys have done), all within the last 12 months. Yet somehow we are trending towards events and challenges and not new quests?

Agree that the last few quest additions really have been great content (House C is really amazingly good, and feels more like Eberron that all the rest of the game put together).

But on the other hand you've had 2 completely new events in the last 12 months (bringing the total to 6 I think?), one of which has been challenge system based (which I know was essentially demoing the shiny new tech), and this update is all challenges (leveraging the shiny new tech). It's not unreasonable to extrapolate that there will be more content like this in future, and if you dont' like this kind of content, then its fair enough to call DoooOOOoooMM!!one!1eleven!!

Don't actually agree with Ferd here, because new kinds of content are just as valid as new 'proper' quests in my view (even though I don't generally bother with festivult, risia, Mabar, easter eggs or succubi events because I don't enjoy them very much, unlike Cove) - but I can certainly see where he's coming from.

[Galeria]

Love the new content, would love to see some life breathed into existing areas in the near future too.

My hubby's computer has full graphic settings turned up (unlike the laptop I use that has two dedicated deskfans to keep the video card from catching fire while I play, even at low resolution) and recently I was playing on his computer while mine was being worked on.

This game, at cranked-up video settings, is breathtaking. It was like a whole new experience. (I know what I want for Christmas now!)

Three Barrel Cove in particular with the water settings turned up (and on a huge monitor) is fantastic. I felt like I was on vacation at a beach infested with kobolds and sahuagin. Even more fun is that I was running my artificer and with long range draw settings I could mow down enemies with my repeating crossbow like I was playing a first person shooter. It was a blast!

I'd love to see some content built around the WF pirates and their airship out there- that whole setting looks like fun.

[GoldyGopher]

Um...

U8, U9, U10, U11....all had new hand crafted quests (and IMO some of the best our content guys have done), all within the last 12 months. Yet somehow we are trending towards events and challenges and not new quests?

Yes, U8/9/10/11 did all have hand crafted quests in them, but the question is how often are those quests run, how often do you see LFM's up for those quests?

The answer as far as I can tell is not very often.

To be far it is not unusual to see LFMs up for U8 Content "Attack on Stormreach" not as common as "Gianthold" however? However having put up LFM's for U9 and U10 content and completing multiple quests before someone joins is not a good sign.
Unfortunately I think U11 is relegated to the same fate.

Why?
I would argue the problem is in the amount of XP awarded. I follow that up with the amount loot earned, and finally the lack of meaningful favor rewards.

U8 is roughly equivalent to Ruins of Gianthold quest pack in terms of level, and the amount of time spent in the quest.
However when you look at XP on a first time normal run the GH quests earn you 20 to 35% more XP depending on your luck with optionals appearing. Running something like a Cry for Help will net you more XP on a third run than typical first run of Assault on Summerfield.

This is a problem with a lot of content out there in DDO as a player it doesn't make much sense to run this content because the XP, Loot and Favor gain you very less than other existing content. I have long argued that Turbine needs to normalize the XP earned from quests this is just another example.

As for challenges, my opinion is they will be run far less often than quests.

[Captain_Wizbang]

Um...

U8, U9, U10, U11....all had new hand crafted quests (and IMO some of the best our content guys have done), all within the last 12 months. Yet somehow we are trending towards events and challenges and not new quests?
Thanks, my original post didnt translate thoughts to words correctly.

But I do have a question for you all, from a devs perspective, is it easier to write all new content or alter existing?
ie, adding a new quest to a wilderness area and/or altering existing content vs, designing new content?

It's not as far flung a question as some would think. The amount of work needed to alter existing content is huge!
Glad you all have chimed in a little.

*Since TRing one of my main 4 toons, Ive heard A LOT of "I can't stand this quest or I can't wait to get this over with atttitude" I have looked at every quest with a different outlook, and I have to say, there's not one quest I dislike!*

[varusso]

What about turning 3BC into something Devil-Assault-ish? Normal is level 5-7 (like it's now), hard level 13-15, and Elite 17-19. The loot? Crystal Cove stuff, or pieces. This is a very popular loot, and can be added to the normal game fulltime. So, normal quests drop level 4-8 loot, hard drops 12-16, and elite drops 16-20. All tier 1. We get gems and doubloons from chests and random killing in area and quests, and use it to upgrade. The trinkets may be very rare loot eardweller-style.

After all, with the challenges comming on U12, there is few reasons to bring back CC on a later date, since many challenges are CC with a new skin.

I won't say its a bad idea, cos technically its not, but heres the thing:
(1) We already have alot of content at the lower end -- 3BC is simply wasted in that range, even if it has higher versions included. The same problems that plague it as a "useless" pack now woudl continue in the low-tier version of it later, unless it included a significant increase in loot and XP. And even then, there are still just too many other quests in that range for it to really shine until later in the game.
(2) They have done this with quests, but they havent done it with a wilderness area. Its an interesting idea as an experiment, but I am not sure I would like having an entire wilderness area that changes levels -- and if it doesnt change levels to match the content in the quests, then its a boring run that ppl will just demand teleporters for.
(3) This would take alot more engineering time for them to rebalance mobs/traps, XP, and loot for multiple level ranges than just bumping it up once. While I am not opposed to making them work a bit for the good of the game -- I am not convinced it would be worth the effort just to add tiered level ranges. I personally prefer the current method of level difficulty increases on quests. DA is the exception to this pattern, I dont really want to see it become the rule.

[FranOhmsford]

I won't say its a bad idea, cos technically its not, but heres the thing:
(1) We already have alot of content at the lower end -- 3BC is simply wasted in that range, even if it has higher versions included. The same problems that plague it as a "useless" pack now woudl continue in the low-tier version of it later, unless it included a significant increase in loot and XP. And even then, there are still just too many other quests in that range for it to really shine until later in the game.
(2) They have done this with quests, but they havent done it with a wilderness area. Its an interesting idea as an experiment, but I am not sure I would like having an entire wilderness area that changes levels -- and if it doesnt change levels to match the content in the quests, then its a boring run that ppl will just demand teleporters for.
(3) This would take alot more engineering time for them to rebalance mobs/traps, XP, and loot for multiple level ranges than just bumping it up once. While I am not opposed to making them work a bit for the good of the game -- I am not convinced it would be worth the effort just to add tiered level ranges. I personally prefer the current method of level difficulty increases on quests. DA is the exception to this pattern, I dont really want to see it become the rule.

^This

I still say the best way to boost 3 Barrel is to double it's TP cost and add Crystal Cove to the pack year round.

2nd option - Take away TP cost entirely and add the pack to 1000 Vet Favour - Vets now start in 3 barrel instead of Korthos.

[varusso]

^This

I still say the best way to boost 3 Barrel is to double it's TP cost and add Crystal Cove to the pack year round.

2nd option - Take away TP cost entirely and add the pack to 1000 Vet Favour - Vets now start in 3 barrel instead of Korthos.

I would love to see CC year round, but i dont think it will happen -- it takes away alot of the "shiney" form it. More likely, if they DID add it though, it would be in House C with the new challenge stuff.

CC would make a great foundation for a raid in 3BC though... :D

[nibel]

DA style was more to keep all the CC items (evel 4-20). I have no problem with upping 3BC to level 15+ and upgrading the quests inside as needed. I was just saying that CC loot is thematically right into 3BC, and is already playtested. And everyone loves CC loot. And with the challenges, the "new quest" thing CC had is not unique anymore.

[oradafu]

Um...

U8, U9, U10, U11....all had new hand crafted quests (and IMO some of the best our content guys have done), all within the last 12 months. Yet somehow we are trending towards events and challenges and not new quests?

I'm not going to dig through every single post. But it has been said multiple times that DDO will be using the CHallenge system more and more in the future. I believe it was first stated back at PAX 2011 by Fernando. And it was recently repeated by Major Malphunktion in his weekly posts. So, yes, from what we are hearing and seeing with a Challenge only pack (that basically only contains 3 challenges on 4 maps with multiple variations at an insanely high price), players are weary about the future content from the Devs... not to mention the total lack of Prestige Classes lately...

[Claver]

Um...

U8, U9, U10, U11....all had new hand crafted quests (and IMO some of the best our content guys have done), all within the last 12 months. Yet somehow we are trending towards events and challenges and not new quests?

Agreed... I think some of the quest that Turbine has been putting out in the last few updates have been fantastic - they seem to be getting better and better.

One update with challenges doesn't constitute a trend - 4 successive updates with ONLY challenges constitutes a trend

[voodoogroves]

3bc could use better transport to/from - more accessible. Once there, better amenities. Now that we're all addicted to guild ships, having to recall to house D, use the ship, drop into K, etc. is annoying.

Lower-level named items (or say a higher chance at the throw-back items like Sunblades, etc.) would be an incentive as well.

[Fomori]

I'm not sure if they are going to put more time into 3BC. The version you see now is a vastly upgraded version from the original one that came out. The quests were not too far away from the entrance but no other reason to go there. Granted I was happier with the old version, as I just wanted to get to the entrance and be done with the quests.

However as an explorer area its pretty and not too difficult to kill the rares. As is, its perfect for its level range. Threnal on the other hand could use some love (hopefully along with ending Coyle FOREVER!)

[UnderwearModel]

Three Barrel Cove is an upgrade.

Before that you just had Old Grey Garl, Guard Duty, Fire Caves, and Scoundrel's Run. No slayer area, no sea to swim in.

In Scoundrel's Run, back then the fire corridor was an ELITE challenge. It was always fun to volunteer for that duty and make it.

Plus, we had a fine strumpet trying to lure unsuspecting mariners into useless chatter. She has since been banished for the politically incorrectness.

[varusso]

It really doesnt matter if 3BC is an "upgrade" from its original release. If no one runs its except at cap for favor, then it still needs to be improved. Putting it into a level range that actually needs more content would be a great way of doing this. The quests themselves are already designed well enough for that level, if the mobs/traps/etc are just upgraded.

I honestly cannot think of a single person I have ever met who has ever said "hey lets go run 3BC -- I just LOVE that zone!" On the contrary, every comment I have ecer seen (other than "3BC -- meh") has been a request for turbine to upgrade it in loot/level.

Yet everyone flips about every other quest in the game that includes pirates. This zone is nothing BUT pirates!?!

3BC needs attention, regardless of whatever attention it may have received in the past.

[Vormaerin]

While I agree that there are assorted issues with the zone, as my previous posts indicate, I really do object to baseless assertions like "no one runs it except to cap favor".

There's usually at level players in the Wench or passing through when I go out there. Not as many as you see in Delera's Graveyard, but its definitely in use. I am quite certain that it is completely off the radar of speed leveling players. Please remember that your playstyle or even the playstyle of a plurality of the forumgoers does not intrinsically constitute a majority view.

[Fomori]

It really doesnt matter if 3BC is an "upgrade" from its original release. If no one runs its except at cap for favor, then it still needs to be improved. Putting it into a level range that actually needs more content would be a great way of doing this. The quests themselves are already designed well enough for that level, if the mobs/traps/etc are just upgraded.

I honestly cannot think of a single person I have ever met who has ever said "hey lets go run 3BC -- I just LOVE that zone!" On the contrary, every comment I have ecer seen (other than "3BC -- meh") has been a request for turbine to upgrade it in loot/level.

Yet everyone flips about every other quest in the game that includes pirates. This zone is nothing BUT pirates!?!

3BC needs attention, regardless of whatever attention it may have received in the past.
I'll give you two points, the loot is not named, only standard, and a lot of people really do only run it for favor. However that does not make it a bad or poor zone for everyone, just the xp/min and min/max loot crowd. I tend to fall into the later categories but I still think its fine as is. If they wanted to polish it up a bit and bring in new loot to make it the 'flavor of the month' there is room for that. However its still run by more casual players that are subbed. Since there is nothing "shiny" there is doesnt tend to get picked up as a quest pack for FTP/Premium players so its not run all that often.

The bigger/faster/stronger/better crowd is making its way into the DDO majority these days. There is always going to something not as good or less efficient. 3BC might just fit that bill. Changing it will just make something else take that spot. If you feel the need to constantly make the least efficient thing better all you do is keep going around in circles until Monty Hall is handing out millions of plat and greensteel items on Korthos. (ok that is a very broad and unrealistic exaggeration I'll admit :D )

I'm not dissing on you, your post just happened to be there. Something I think that I just have a different perspective in that not everything in a MMO needs to be a golden goose.

[Chai]

Im surprised Turbine hasnt upgraded 3BC as of yet (since the last minimal upgrade). This would have made a great area to have some challenges for the new challenge quests, or a couple of the house D pirate zombie type quests, with some neat rewards, both regular and epic.

More ship to ship combat would be cool as well.