"Its our place"

[pseudomasochist]

This was probably inevitable with the free-for-all nature of Mabar mote/dust/fang farming.

It's early morning and I decide to gather some undead bits until sleep comes. One more item before the event ends would be nice so I hop into Delera's with my warchanter and go to town with his Triple Positive maul. The place was pretty empty and I had my pick of undead packs until a group of three from the same guild show up. There's plenty of space for everyone so I went on my way, except they seemed very interested in the same undead I was beating on...

and then I find myself dancing. The irony of a dancing bard isn't lost on me so my first reaction was, "Haha, he got me. Now back to farming." They continue to hang around and soon I'm dancing again. The second time isn't as funny but maybe they'll go away now that someone had his fun. When I'm danced a third time(that's some luck with the Kormor's), I send one of them a /tell and it turns out I had unknowingly encroached upon their territory. Here's the bulk of the exchange:

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j400/pseudosadist/ScreenShot00019.gif

We've done some House P and Red Fens epics together in the past with these very toons - my bard and the fighter and barbarian of their group - without any issue so I was surprised and very disappointed by the behavior. That must have been before the dog-eat-dog world of Mabar farming though.

As indicated in the screen capture, I did end up reporting for harassment but that didn't stop one of them from returning two or three more times to try getting me killed.

I'm not even sure why this is being posted. Maybe it's to rant a bit because reporting abusive behavior is apparently a waste of time. Maybe it's to remind people that events, and the game itself, are supposed to be about having fun. I can't help but smile when someone happens by while I'm fighting in Delera's or Crystal Cove and throws me a heal and I try to do the same on occasion. Maybe it's in the hopes that the other parties read this in which case, thanks for the past runs but I know whose parties to avoid now.

Regardless, thanks for reading.

[Chai]

1. What do they think this is? EQ? Do we have to argue now about what areas are camped and which are not? Where does the border around my space end and yours begin?

2. outlined here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=278526&highlight=ignore

“I keep trying to move to a different area, but they keep following me, spamming emotes, and generally invading my personal space. Help!”
Rule #1 of the Code of Conduct specifically states: “While participating in Dungeons & Dragons Online, you must respect the rights of others to play and enjoy the game world as intended by Turbine, Inc.”
If after politely asking the player to move on they continue this behavior, please submit a report. We recommend you also place the player on ignore and go about your business, letting In-Game Support handle it from there

[sebastianosmith]

I feel your frustration. I encountered this type of territorial nonsense during the last Mabar event and generally ignored it until I was dancing as well. There is no justification for a group to "claim" part of a public area. You did the correct thing in reporting them for malicious behavior.

[somenewnoob]

One of the things I hate about other MMO's is that it isn't instanced. Dungeon campers, kill stealers, etc.

IMO the public area killing grounds in this and cove bring out some of what I can't stand about other games. Seems like it brings out a lot of people's inner idiots.

Instanced events = win

[sebastianosmith]

Do we have to argue now about what areas are camped and which are not? Where does the border around my space end and yours begin?

My general rule of thumb is to move along if the prevailing group level is four or more above my character's level. That way I don't spawn mobs that they get "watched" for killing and they don't spawn mobs that can beat me down in one swipe. If everyone is about the same level, well, it's a public area and there's plenty of room and multiple instances for everyone.

[Pank]

One thing that may occasionally turn effective is notifying some officer or leader form his/their guild.
If they are the kind of people we usually have leading guilds in Thelanis it might work better than reporting.

Just my 2 coppers.

[Viisari]

Why didn't you just change instance until they couldn't find you anymore? Problem solved.

[sebastianosmith]

Why didn't you just change instance until they couldn't find you anymore? Problem solved.

Really?!?!?! If you don't understand then there's no use explaining it to you.

[Viisari]

Really?!?!?! If you don't understand then there's no use explaining it to you.

Actually, nevermind :p

After playing for almost three years, I have to say that I never really took note that you see someones instance from the "who" -search.

Though I would've done some instancesurfing and moved around anyway, chances are that would've lost them even though they could see your instance. And if they would've still persisted through that then yeah, report them.

[Chai]

Actually, nevermind :p

After playing for almost three years, I have to say that I never really took note that you see someones instance from the "who" -search.

Though I would've done some instancesurfing and moved around anyway, chances are that would've lost them even though they could see your instance. And if they would've still persisted through that then yeah, report them.

Yeap that would have been all the proof needed right there.

Chat log:

You have entered instance 2
You are affected by (name's) irresistable dance
You /tell (name) to stop
You have entered instance 10
[...a few minutes go by with other entries]
You are affected by (name's) irresistable dance
You /tell (name) to stop following you around again
You have entered instance 4
[...a few minutes go by with other entries]
You are affected by (name's) irresistable dance
etc...

Id send that in with the report. Image hosting is free.

[PNellesen]

Why didn't you just change instance until they couldn't find you anymore? Problem solved.


The place was pretty empty and I had my pick of undead packs until a group of three from the same guild show up. There's plenty of space for everyone so I went on my way, except they seemed very interested in the same undead I was beating on...

Sounds like the people who should have changed instances were the 3 d*ckh**ds who showed up and proceeded to give him grief. He was being nice simply moving away from the area, even though he was there first.

[Viisari]

Sounds like the people who should have changed instances were the 3 d*ckh**ds who showed up and proceeded to give him grief. He was being nice simply moving away from the area, even though he was there first.

Yes the other guys were being retards, but my point was that by changing instance a few times I very much doubt they would've been able to follow him around anymore, in which case this whole scenario wouldn't have happened and there wouldn't have been any tears shed.

But whatever.

[sebastianosmith]

...but my point was that by changing instance a few times I very much doubt they would've been able to follow him around anymore, in which case this whole scenario wouldn't have happened and there wouldn't have been any tears shed...

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

-Friedrich Gustav Emil Martin Niemöller

[jcliffo3]

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

-Friedrich Gustav Emil Martin Niemöller

love that quote its so true

[Viisari]

love that quote its so true

Yeah and also holds such a huge amount of meaning in an online video game. An online video game in which your interractions with other players are basically limited to helping them, trading with them and talking with them.

Go try something with open pvp and you might actually have a point. In DDO if someone is annoying juch squelch him and change the area, problem solved. In this game it is very difficult to get any real consequences for acting like an idiot, but on the other hand the idiots can't really do anything to you either.

And if someone is trying to kormors you just equip spell absorb items :p

<edit> And no I'm not saying that the trio in OP weren't a bunch of idiots, they were, but what I find amusing is that avoiding them would've almost certainly been extremely easy.

[Nysrock]

I must be too stubborn and too much of an A-Hole because I wouldn't move if I was in an area and others showed up either. And if they keep dancing me that's when I put up an LFM and get as many others in that spot with me.:D

[Delt]

MMO darwinism, survival of the fittest, etc. The only one that "owns" an area is the person/group able to dominate the spawn camping.

As for dancing...about as annoying as dispel. Report if you must, personally, I'd just ignore it.

[Vellrad]

What are they doing to dance you?
I used kormor's belt on guildies over 100 times, and never saw even 1 dance.

[Ssdprref]

Why you just didn't go in the brawling pit and perma dance them?.
I never claimed land but is kinda weird have wizard stealing my cleric kills =P. Dispell for them, then run away, (sarcasm).

[Forzah]

Get the Phiarlan shield that absorbs 5 enchantment spells, problem solved!

[pseudomasochist]

What are they doing to dance you?
I used kormor's belt on guildies over 100 times, and never saw even 1 dance.
In addition to the Irresistible Dance, I was also getting hit with True Seeing, Barkskin, and other such effects so it must have been Kormor's belt.

As for avoiding them, I didn't go out of my way to be honest and there wasn't any need to. Delera's graveyard is pretty big and, even at that late hour, there were four instances. Aside from the first couple of chance encounters with that group, I saw only the one individual I had exchanged tells with, which brings to question why they felt the need to defend their turf at all. He was obviously seeking me out, using his Komor's, then running off to recharge.

In any case, I wasn't able to find a guild officer online so I sent one of them mail. According to MyDDO, their leader hasn't played since February which may explain why the rank and file are running amok.

[sebastianosmith]

Yeah and also holds such a huge amount of meaning in an online video game. An online video game in which your interractions with other players are basically limited to helping them, trading with them and talking with them.

Go try something with open pvp and you might actually have a point. In DDO if someone is annoying juch squelch him and change the area, problem solved. In this game it is very difficult to get any real consequences for acting like an idiot, but on the other hand the idiots can't really do anything to you either.

And if someone is trying to kormors you just equip spell absorb items :p

<edit> And no I'm not saying that the trio in OP weren't a bunch of idiots, they were, but what I find amusing is that avoiding them would've almost certainly been extremely easy.

So, your advice is to just ignore such behavior or run until it goes away because the environs are not worthy of chastising those who would seek to disrupt the illusion of harmony. I see.

Well, allow me to rebut.

As I-me-you-we-us-them-they will likely never interact in any more than a metaphysical sense through the confines in question, calling out those who would abuse social norms becomes even more important than simply allowing the willow to bend, so to speak. With an immediate threat of reprisal removed from the equation, unchecked and unacceptable behavior is likely to be reprized. Boundaries will be expanded. The grotesque will become the rule.

These circumstances are not to be allowed if for no other reason than that they will be brought to bare upon those that cannot defend themselves if left unchecked. The real world and our interactions with one another are changing. To abandon social procedure, etiquette and protocol is to invite anarchy. No matter the means of communication, some sense of decorum must be maintained lest we fall victim to our most base nature. Our world, no matter its state of reality, simply cannot be dominated by adolescent behavior. A race to the least common denominator means we all end up on the bottom.

[Viisari]

So, your advice is to just ignore such behavior or run until it goes away because the environs are not worthy of chastising those who would seek to disrupt the illusion of harmony. I see.

Well, allow me to rebut.

As I-me-you-we-us-them-they will likely never interact in any more than a metaphysical sense through the confines in question, calling out those who would abuse social norms becomes even more important than simply allowing the willow to bend, so to speak. With an immediate threat of reprisal removed from the equation, unchecked and unacceptable behavior is likely to be reprized. Boundaries will be expanded. The grotesque will become the rule.

These circumstances are not to be allowed if for no other reason than that they will be brought to bare upon those that cannot defend themselves if left unchecked. The real world and our interactions with one another are changing. To abandon social procedure, etiquette and protocol is to invite anarchy. No matter the means of communication, some sense of decorum must be maintained lest we fall victim to our most base nature. Our world, no matter its state of reality, simply cannot be dominated by adolescent behavior. A race to the least common denominator means we all end up on the bottom.

I see, you're new to this place we call The Internet. Welcome.

Besides, the chaos that reigns here has spawned some awesome stuff, don't be so quick to judge it :p

Anarchy has it's places, just like order does, it is not all so black and white.


These circumstances are not to be allowed if for no other reason than that they will be brought to bare upon those that cannot defend themselves if left unchecked.

Also... wut? Defend? Against what? Were still speaking about an online video game here, squelch, move on. There's nothing to "defend" against. If you we start filing tickets for every ****** around here then the poor GM's aren't gonna see anything else but those.

Bloody lawful good pallies arguing about stuff... neutral ftw

[protokon]

I see, you're new to this place we call The Internet. Welcome.

Besides, the chaos that reigns here has spawned some awesome stuff, don't be so quick to judge it :p

Anarchy has it's places, just like order does, it is not all so black and white.



Also... wut? Defend? Against what? Were still speaking about an online video game here, squelch, move on. There's nothing to "defend" against. If you we start filing tickets for every ****** around here then the poor GM's aren't gonna see anything else but those.

Bloody lawful good pallies arguing about stuff... neutral ftw

Hi, welcome to the DDO community. Like every other MMO out there, you agree to adhere to a basic set of rules of respect to other players and/or turbine staff. Failure to follow these rules will result the removal of your ability to participate.

This isn't some random, unmoderated forum/game on the internet. It is a game with moderators that will remove those who do not abide by the rules. Bully/harrassing is not only strictly against the rules here, but frowned upon by the community as a whole.

I'd like to also point out that, among other things, trolling is against the rules here :).

[Viisari]

Hi, welcome to the DDO community. Like every other MMO out there, you agree to adhere to a basic set of rules of respect to other players and/or turbine staff. Failure to follow these rules will result the removal of your ability to participate.

This isn't some random, unmoderated forum/game on the internet. It is a game with moderators that will remove those who do not abide by the rules. Bully/harrassing is not only strictly against the rules here, but frowned upon by the community as a whole.

I'd like to also point out that, among other things, trolling is against the rules here :).

Which is why this is pretty much moot:



With an immediate threat of reprisal removed from the equation, unchecked and unacceptable behavior is likely to be reprized. Boundaries will be expanded. The grotesque will become the rule.

Idiots won't simply stop being idiots because you smack them a few times. They will either grow out of it with time or they will be idiots for the rest of their lives. Which is why it's simply better to avoid such people as much as possible. Now *IF* they persist and follow you around even if you've done your best to avoid then yes go ahead and report them, but that wasn't clearly the case here.

Turbine sets the rules, so there's really no expanding them other than by when Turbine wills that. Sure if you like enforcing those rules so much go ahead and report everything you can, but I'd rather play the game than get annoyed by every ******* I encounter when I can just simply shut them out by writing one line in the chat window.

[FranOhmsford]

Which is why this is pretty much moot:



Idiots won't simply stop being idiots because you smack them a few times. They will either grow out of it with time or they will be idiots for the rest of their lives. Which is why it's simply better to avoid such people as much as possible. Now *IF* they persist and follow you around even if you've done your best to avoid then yes go ahead and report them, but that wasn't clearly the case here.

Turbine sets the rules, so there's really no expanding them other than by when Turbine wills that. Sure if you like enforcing those rules so much go ahead and report everything you can, but I'd rather play the game than get annoyed by every ******* I encounter when I can just simply shut them out by writing one line in the chat window.

I didn't realise squelching someone stopped them casting spells / item effects on you in a public instance?

[Viisari]

I didn't realise squelching someone stopped them casting spells / item effects on you in a public instance?

These (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Item:Mantle_of_the_Worldshaper) guys (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Item:Pale_Lavender_Ioun_Stone) say (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Item:Epic_Phiarlan_Mirror_Cloak) hello (http://ddowiki.com/page/Battered_Phiarlan_Shield). (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Item:Scarab_of_Spell_Absorption)

There are *two* spells you can cast on someone in a public instance that might be considered harmful: Greater Dispell and having dance proc from kormors. That's it. In a public instance dispelling is irrelevant and kormors relies on luck and can be blocked.

But obviously you people would just rather stay around fools so you have a reason to report them, I'll either start trolling them or change scenery depending on how I'm feeling, each to his own I guess.

[FranOhmsford]

These (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Item:Mantle_of_the_Worldshaper) guys (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Item:Pale_Lavender_Ioun_Stone) say (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Item:Epic_Phiarlan_Mirror_Cloak) hello (http://ddowiki.com/page/Battered_Phiarlan_Shield). (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Item:Scarab_of_Spell_Absorption)

There are *two* spells you can cast on someone in a public instance that might be considered harmful: Greater Dispell and having dance proc from kormors. That's it. In a public instance dispelling is irrelevant and kormors relies on luck and can be blocked.

But obviously you people would just rather stay around fools so you have a reason to report them, I'll either start trolling them or change scenery depending on how I'm feeling, each to his own I guess.

One epic item, One item that costs upwards of a million plat in trade, the mantle from Threnal {one of the least popular packs in the game} and a Scarab of spell absorbtion.

I'm VIP so Threnal not a problem BUT for most people...Well I suppose one out of four ain't bad.

Also Griefing should be stamped on FULL STOP. I don't care if the person they're trying to grief has ways around said griefing - It's still griefing.

BTW Skull and Pumpkin Heads are Griefing also.

[Viisari]

BTW Skull and Pumpkin Heads are Griefing also.

I think I'm done here.

Also you missed the shield which is extremely easy to get.

[Crystalizer]

this thread perfectly states why i almost never have ddo events
they draw players from questing, and they generate that sort of standard/boring mmo side effects

nerf events, ty

[sebastianosmith]

I see, you're new to this place we call The Internet. Welcome.

Ah, the ad hominem defense. Clever.



Besides, the chaos that reigns here has spawned some awesome stuff, don't be so quick to judge it :p

Anarchy has it's places, just like order does, it is not all so black and white.

Chaos and anarchy are two very different beasts. Chaos implies a system with simple rules and no predictable outcome. Anarchy is a system without rules and a very predicable outcome.



Also... wut? Defend? Against what? Were still speaking about an online video game here, squelch, move on. There's nothing to "defend" against. If you we start filing tickets for every ****** around here then the poor GM's aren't gonna see anything else but those.


a dicto simpliciter ad dictum secundum quid...

Because it would be supposedly difficult to separate the truly obnoxious from the simply "********" we should ignore the problem? Without doubt one of the finest arguments for apathy I have ever encountered - So nuanced and laced with subtlety. I especially enjoyed the bit about social harassment being relegated to insignificance because it takes place in a game.


Bloody lawful good pallies arguing about stuff... neutral ftw

I am not a paladin by any means. I just understand that any community, be it in the real world or a game, which allows the decay and aberration of social convention is doomed. As you point out, there are not enough GMs to handle all reported social transgressions if the player base were comprised of infantile fools as you imply them to be. The exercise of prudent judgement would be enough in most cases to weed out the frivolous from the justified, which I think is well within the capabilities of the player community at large. The OP provided an excellent example of such judgement in action.

[FranOhmsford]

I think I'm done here.

Also you missed the shield which is extremely easy to get.

As I said: It matters not whether the person can get an item to defend themselves - Griefing is griefing and not everybody has these items.

Your answer is: You got griefed, woe, get yourself an item that can protect you and have it on at all times.

My answer is: Punish the griefer.

[JOTMON]

BTW Skull and Pumpkin Heads are Griefing also.

You can buy party po oper potions for those.

[Emizand]

Anarchy is a system without rules and a very predicable outcome.


Apparently only in America!

The folowing quote is from Wiki.

"Anarchy (from Greek: ἀναρχίᾱ anarch�*ā), has more than one colloquial definition. In the United States, the term "anarchy" typically is meant to refer to a society which lacks publicly recognized government or violently enforced political authority.[1][2] When used in this sense, anarchy may[3] or may not[4] be intended to imply political disorder or lawlessness within a society.

Outside of the US, and by most individuals that self-identify as anarchists, it implies a system of governance, mostly theoretical at a nation state level although there are a few successful historical examples[5], that goes to lengths to avoid the use of coercion, violence, force and authority, while still producing a productive and desirable society.[6]"


Personally I quite like anarchists, think their heart is in the right place and belive they would agre with the majority of your arguement Sebastian.

[protokon]

Apparently only in America!

The folowing quote is from Wiki.

"Anarchy (from Greek: ἀναρχίᾱ anarch�*ā), has more than one colloquial definition. In the United States, the term "anarchy" typically is meant to refer to a society which lacks publicly recognized government or violently enforced political authority.[1][2] When used in this sense, anarchy may[3] or may not[4] be intended to imply political disorder or lawlessness within a society.

Outside of the US, and by most individuals that self-identify as anarchists, it implies a system of governance, mostly theoretical at a nation state level although there are a few successful historical examples[5], that goes to lengths to avoid the use of coercion, violence, force and authority, while still producing a productive and desirable society.[6]"


Personally I quite like anarchists, think their heart is in the right place and belive they would agre with the majority of your arguement Sebastian.

Hey Emizand. No offense, but if you are ever going to argue semantics or technicalities, never and I mean never use a Wiki as a source for your argument ;). Even though in this case I might incline to believe that entry.

[Emizand]

Oxford English dictionary online (http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/anarchy)

Anarchy

noun
[mass noun]

1 a state of disorder due to absence or non-recognition of authority or other controlling systems:he must ensure public order in a country threatened with anarchy
2 absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual, regarded as a political ideal.




Read somewhere that view number 1 is prevalent in America, whilst view number 2 is more widely accepted elsewhere. Cant remember where I read that though. ;-)


Better?

[LrdSlvrhnd]

I had a similar situation... I signed onto my L14 monk and started playing, and I ran around and switched instances until I found a happy hunting ground that was relatively empty, and didn't contain anybody much under or over my level. And then I proceeded to beat up on stuff.

Three hours later, a bunch of L20s show up. I continue to beat up on stuff, but now a touch more circumspectly as I have to to watch out for large groups of frostmarrow skellies. One or two I can handle, more than that is just asking for trouble. But I mostly stick to my wights and shadows and skellie archmages, with the occasional frostmarrow or small group of mummies for the thrills.

About 10 minutes later, I get a tell from one of the L20s, telling me to go away because I'm spawning stuff too low level for them. And I basically respond with "No, I was here first." I probably would've been more polite had he ASKED instead of TOLD, but it would've been the same gist.

And he sends me a couple of more tells, and I respond similarly.

And then his party leader joins in, and I still refuse, but now I'm getting annoyed.

Then they cast dispel on me, which cracks me up 'cause the only buffs I have going are the ones I got from THEM as they mass-buffed while I ran through.

And a couple more get into the act, and by now I'd just flat out refuse to leave even if I wanted to go offline. I'm at the point where I'd just stand in the center of the area and go afk rather than logging out. And the leader keeps suggesting other places I could go, and I say "Sounds great! Have fun over there, because I WAS HERE FIRST."

Now... I would've never claimed to 'own' that spot, and had they asked nicely, I probably would've left... but the way THEY acted like they owned the spot just beccause they were a group of L20s and I was a mere solo L14... well, that kinda torqued me off.

I did leave after about half an hour of this, but only because the dungeon opened up, and as a solo, I really have a vested interest in getting in ASAP so I have a shot at a full dungeon lol