People! Please, stop wasting my time... [Archive] - Dungeons & Dragons Online Forums

cdemeritt

10-23-2011, 07:14 PM

GermanicusMaximus

10-23-2011, 07:37 PM

I want to get in and start the quest, not stand around for another 15 minutes waiting for you to beat up the training dummy... 99% of the time, the buff isn't needed...

If they are taking 15 minutes to beat up the training dummy, the buff is probably needed but not sufficient

SHOCK_and_AWE

10-23-2011, 08:45 PM

Yes, everyone please hurry! Be smart about it! Remember, this is a raid we're talking about here, raids were designed to be run in quick sprints with little to no preparation.

HAH!

But with regards to the OP, I would indeed be annoyed if my group took 15 minutes to get buffs. Five minutes is more than sufficient :)

Chilldude

10-23-2011, 08:47 PM

Yes, everyone please hurry! Be smart about it! Remember, this is a raid we're talking about here, raids were designed to be run in quick sprints with little to no preparation.

rpasell

10-23-2011, 10:47 PM

Yes, everyone please hurry! Be smart about it! Remember, this is a raid we're talking about here, raids were designed to be run in quick sprints with little to no preparation.

If you can't run a raid without ship buffs, what did you do before airships?

I understand the annoyance he's talking about.

jaegarnel

10-23-2011, 11:07 PM

Yes, everyone please hurry! Be smart about it! Remember, this is a raid we're talking about here, raids were designed to be run in quick sprints with little to no preparation.

There is a difference between doing appropriate preparations (which you don't really need to run through ST in a full raid group, only inside the actual raid) and going on completely unnecessary detours within the pre raid.

It's also really annoying to have to wait for everyone to get ship buffs for 10 minutes while waiting to do a quest. It's one of the reasons I hate ship buffs (the other being that they trivialize low and mid level content).

But I've found one easy solution to that problem; when I get to the quest, I start with whoever's already there, and if I manage to finish it before some people finish getting their ship buffs, too bad for them.

To the OP: The only way to be sure you will never wait at the start of a quest: post a LFM while getting buffs, go to the quest, add "IP" to the LFM, and you're good to go.

Even if you don't think you can solo the whole quest, it pays off to do this, because I've found that decent player are much more likely to join a LFM that shows that the poster can actually do it.

Galeria

10-23-2011, 11:43 PM

While the last person is whacking the training dummy, the people who were prepared to go are watching their buffs tick away.

If a party is almost full, I start getting buffs as soon as I click the LFM so that I can get to the raid quickly.

It's the people who are farming Mabar or still doing turn in's in the Sands who click the LFM and really can't be bothered to get to the raid that tick me off.

(If you are in an event, we can see the stuff you are getting, BTW. Don't pretend that's not where you are!)

The bottom line is, if you aren't prepared to go, don't click the LFM. If you are accepted to the raid, get your booty there ASAP. It's not the time to post the stuff from your last raid on the AH, mosey on over to the ship, and tell people you'll be there shortly.

My favorite are the ones that make you wait while they sell/repair/buff only to get to Meridia and say:

"Oh, sorry guys. I'm on timer. GL!"

cdemeritt

10-24-2011, 12:26 AM

If you can't run a raid without ship buffs, what did you do before airships?

^^ This...

There are places I don't mind waiting for people to get buffs (Elite Amarath, EDQ, EDA, and a few others), but for normal quests/raids...

xveganrox

10-24-2011, 12:43 AM

Just start without them? If I recall correctly the Shroud portal stays open for several minutes ;) just let them know when you go in, then they'll buff faster!

lhidda

10-24-2011, 01:21 AM

Yes really, I am pretty annoyed waiting in average 15 minutes after group is filled to start the quest. I ran complete normal shroud in 25 minutes, and I am sure there are even faster groups.

NaturalHazard

10-24-2011, 01:43 AM

Share Plze!! :D

Chilldude

10-24-2011, 03:46 AM

If you can't run a raid without ship buffs, what did you do before airships?

I understand the annoyance he's talking about.

Most of the annoyance stems from improper leadership. Meeting at Meridia is silly and inefficient. In a 12 man raid, someone is bound to have a ship with good buffs and transport to Meridia. When the raid fills, find out who that person is, then everyone proceed to a ship portal and wait for the invite. Get your buffs and hit the navigator. Now everyone is there and everyone's buffs have the maximum time remaining.

Can it be done without buffs? Of course it can. However, if they are available, why? Some classes get a lot more use out of buffs than other classes. On my sorcerer I really don't need any buffs at all. On top of that, I can instantly teleport to Meridia. Join a shroud... poof!, I'm there and ready to go. On my barbarian, not only are the buffs more useful, especially resistances, but I also can't teleport to Meridia.

For a caster to cry about how long it takes everyone else to buff up and get there just seems a bit silly to me. Go get a drink. Browse the forums. Watch a video. Read a book. Waiting on the group is a big part of the game, if you can't handle it then you should try a single player RPG.

Havok.cry

10-24-2011, 04:14 AM

*snip*
Waiting on the group is a big part of the game, if you can't handle it then you should try a single player RPG.

Waiting on a group is why I don't play with players like you. Anyone that assumes I should have to wait for them does not belong in my groups (reasonable exceptions). Waiting for other people is only part of the game for people who can't handle things themselves and is not necessary 99% of the time. No offense but if you think I should have to wait for you for anything but DC/real life/OMW then your an arrogant SOB that I don't want around.

Chilldude

10-24-2011, 04:30 AM

Waiting on a group is why I don't play with players like you. Anyone that assumes I should have to wait for them does not belong in my groups (reasonable exceptions). Waiting for other people is only part of the game for people who can't handle things themselves and is not necessary 99% of the time. No offense but if you think I should have to wait for you for anything but DC/real life/OMW then your an arrogant SOB that I don't want around.

Yikes! I didn't mean to pee in your Cheerios. Reading your post I couldn't help but imagine a pitbull with a massive spiked collar furiously tugging at a stout chain.

There are people who are inconsiderate, and there are people who are impatient. Getting all bent out of shape about it isn't going to change that. I don't know of any multi-player games that don't entail some level of waiting on other people. I'm not advocating inconsiderate behavior, I'm simply trying to mitigate impatient behavior.

However, I do appreciate that you don't mean any offense by assuming I'm an arrogant SOB.

Havok.cry

10-24-2011, 04:33 AM

Yikes! I didn't mean to pee in your Cheerios. Reading your post I couldn't help but imagine a pitbull with a massive spiked collar furiously tugging at a stout chain.

There are people who are inconsiderate, and there are people who are impatient. Getting all bent out of shape about it isn't going to change that. I don't know of any multi-player games that don't entail some level of waiting on other people. I'm not advocating inconsiderate behavior, I'm simply trying to mitigate impatient behavior.

However, I do appreciate that you don't mean any offense by assuming I'm an arrogant SOB.

Hehe sorry, I haven't had my daily quota of drama yet.

Ugumagre

10-24-2011, 06:05 AM

I log on to DDO in order to play. Standing around waiting for people is not a fun game. If I wanted to read a book or watch a video I would do that, but I want to play DDO.

In fact, I find the whole concept of ship buffs so appalling that I refuse to have anything to do with them. None of my toons have ever been on a guildship (and my main is in a lvl 81 guild, so I know what I'm missing out on). In my experience all quests, on all difficulties, can be done without ship buffs.

On my fighter I really don't need any buffs at all, she has items to cover the requisite resists (lets be honest here: if you can survive in Shroud pt5 you didn't need any ship buffs for pt1-4). On top of that I can instantly teleport to Meridia by taking the soul-train express. Join a shroud... poof!, I'm there and ready to go.

Whenever I post an LFM I put it up as IP, grab a hireling (unless I'm on a self-healing toon) and accept the first 4 peeps that apply (as long as they are in the correct level range). When applying to existing LFMs I prefer to join ones that are already in progress or at least nearly full. If I discover that the leader is going to wait indefinitely for something before going in I politely drop group and go do something else.

I agree with you with one exception. Actually an Airship is a great thing, and it is fun WHEN your guild is composed by 6 accounts, that is , 6 RL friends. We meet there, and then discuss for 10 minutes what quest to do, and another 10 minutes exchanging useless stuff ("Do you want this wand of Bullstrenght? i have a wand of Bullstrenght" "No, thanks, I don´t need it." "Really, because I will sell it or dump it" ...repeat and fade...). In the time they are discussing I can get 10x the buffs, check the AH, the bank account, do some cleaning in my Characters, brew some tea... my friends are all spaniards, by the way :D

Edit: Ninja posted!! Atree, you lose 10 points.

Atree

10-24-2011, 06:07 AM

Most of the annoyance stems from improper leadership. Meeting at Meridia is silly and inefficient. In a 12 man raid, someone is bound to have a ship with good buffs and transport to Meridia. When the raid fills, find out who that person is, then everyone proceed to a ship portal and wait for the invite. Get your buffs and hit the navigator. Now everyone is there and everyone's buffs have the maximum time remaining.

Can it be done without buffs? Of course it can. However, if they are available, why? Some classes get a lot more use out of buffs than other classes. On my sorcerer I really don't need any buffs at all. On top of that, I can instantly teleport to Meridia. Join a shroud... poof!, I'm there and ready to go. On my barbarian, not only are the buffs more useful, especially resistances, but I also can't teleport to Meridia.

For a caster to cry about how long it takes everyone else to buff up and get there just seems a bit silly to me. Go get a drink. Browse the forums. Watch a video. Read a book. Waiting on the group is a big part of the game, if you can't handle it then you should try a single player RPG.

I log on to DDO in order to play. Standing around waiting for people is not a fun game. If I wanted to read a book or watch a video I would do that, but I want to play DDO.

In fact, I find the whole concept of ship buffs so appalling that I refuse to have anything to do with them. None of my toons have ever been on a guildship (and my main is in a lvl 81 guild, so I know what I'm missing out on). In my experience all quests, on all difficulties, can be done without ship buffs.

On my fighter I really don't need any buffs at all, she has items to cover the requisite resists (lets be honest here: if you can survive in Shroud pt5 you didn't need any ship buffs for pt1-4). On top of that I can instantly teleport to Meridia by taking the soul-train express. Join a shroud... poof!, I'm there and ready to go.

Whenever I post an LFM I put it up as IP, grab a hireling (unless I'm on a self-healing toon) and accept the first 4 peeps that apply (as long as they are in the correct level range). When applying to existing LFMs I prefer to join ones that are already in progress or at least nearly full. If I discover that the leader is going to wait indefinitely for something before going in I politely drop group and go do something else.

NaturalHazard

10-24-2011, 06:16 AM

Waiting for someone for 5 or so minutes is fine, when it starts to go into the realms of 15 minutes then there is often something wrong, and its a bit ridiculous to expect 11 people to wait 15+ minutes for you to run a normal shroud. Ive seen it all, people waiting at the ah in meridia in the middle of a bidding war on the ah expecting the whole raid to wait for them cause they are in the last hour of the bidding so any second now....... lolz. Thank goodness the leader saw sense and booted with the comment browse and bid on the ah on your own time.

mobrien316

10-24-2011, 06:22 AM

I generally return to the ship prior to logging out, get my ship buffs, and then log out. When I log back in I can look for an LFM that I want to join and immediately join it without making anyone wait for me while I get buffs.

If I log out without buffing, I will head to the ship and get buffs before looking at the group panel. Once I get the buffs I will start looking for an LFM, since I can then join and go without making anyone wait for me.

Of course, this assumes that I am going to bother getting ship buffs at all. At least fifty percent of the time I don't bother. I will usually only head for the ship when I don't see any groups doing quests I want to join, so I figure I might as well get buffs while waiting for a group.

I completely agree with the poster who wrote that he wants to play DDO, not wait around while other people are getting ship buffs, especially when the buffs are often unnecessary. If you have been at level 20 for months and have anything better than awful gear, ship buffs are not needed for a Shroud run on normal. I have seen high level characters ask me to wait for them while they buffed when I was doing a favor cleanup run on low level quests (and they got mad at me when I didn't wait for them.)

In my opinion, if getting buffs is going to make the rest of the party wait, then don't get buffs. If you are the second person to join a group and the leader says he wants to wait for a full party, go ahead and get buffs. If the group is waiting on you, stop what you're doing and get your butt to the quest.

If you can't live without buffs (literally and figuratively) then buff before you go looking for a group so you won't make other people wait for you.

Qaliya

10-24-2011, 08:20 AM

While the last person is whacking the training dummy, the people who were prepared to go are watching their buffs tick away.

Ding! This is what drives me nuts, personally. I get myself prepared and ready to go, and then watch my buffs disappear because of people who are unprepared.

There are lots of ways that inconsiderate people waste the time of others. Such as the "saving spot for my friend who's almost finished Shroud" or "since the group isn't full I'm going AFK for an indeterminate amount of time" or "I need to switch to my alt (but they disappear for ages)".

Once I joined a PUG for eSnitch and there were three or four people who seemed to be in the same guild and you'd think they were deliberately trying to waste my time. First it was the "waiting for Godot" move. Then one joined but it was a sorceror so the sorceror already there quits to "switch to his bard" but doesn't reappear for ten minutes. Then the group was finally ready to go, one of the group says "sorry dinner time, back in 10 minutes". I had literally been standing inside the entrance to the quest for 20 minutes and finally said I had had enough and left. Only time I've quit a group before the quest even started. Clerics don't have to put up with abuse. :)

hecate355

10-24-2011, 08:36 AM

if i stop wasting your time, do THEY stop wasting MY time as well? :D

why should they stop wasting YOUR time and not MINE???

gloopygloop

10-24-2011, 08:45 AM

^^ This...

There are places I don't mind waiting for people to get buffs (Elite Amarath, EDQ, EDA, and a few others), but for normal quests/raids...

I'm even cool with waiting for people to get buffs in some regular quests where the buffs are really helpful/convenient (1 hour of Acid resist for a pug Coal Chamber, 30 points of Fire before heading into StK at level 4 or 5), but it shouldn't take more than a minute on the ship to grab the quick shrines and then run back out to the quest.

How people manage to take several minutes on the ship AFTER the party is formed is just bewildering to me.

Knight_slayer

10-24-2011, 08:50 AM

IDK why you bother waiting. Just enter the quest and type in party chat "we are in"! You'll see how quick they get there then. If its a normal raid you dont need a full party anyway.

biggin

10-24-2011, 08:59 AM

I think that's the point though. The time it takes to buff can't outweigh it's usefulness. Take eChrono for example. Everyone needs full resists. It saves me time having to throw resists out on the entire party after every shrine if they have ship buffs, so I don't mind waiting an extra few minutes. If we are running a Shroud you don't need anything other than fire, and most don't even need that. There is no reason to buff before you get there unless you are just waiting to fill.

Also, if you don't have your own ship to teleport out to Meridia, don't ask for an invite to get out there and have an entire raid party waiting on you so you can hit the INT and CHA shrine on your barb. If there's less than half a raid party who cares, if we are close to full then the ship invitation was to expedite your travel out here. You can easily pick up another pugger that's probably standing right in front of Shroud who would be just as ******** but at least they are ready to go.

hecate355

10-24-2011, 09:01 AM

IDK why you bother waiting. Just enter the quest and type in party chat "we are in"! You'll see how quick they get there then. If its a normal raid you dont need a full party anyway.

the problem is that once you accept other people to your group you have at least basic obligations towards them, at least to give em reasonable time to make it inside and contribute.

i really really hate those who dont even attempt any kind of cooperation. why did you post the lfm first place then, if you can zerg through it, do it alone and skip annoying other people along the way.

this is not zerg vs slow play argument, but from the moment you open lfm and accept some one to your group, this is not your solo zerg run anymore.

biggin

10-24-2011, 09:13 AM

the problem is that once you accept other people to your group you have at least basic obligations towards them, at least to give em reasonable time to make it inside and contribute.

i really really hate those who dont even attempt any kind of cooperation. why did you post the lfm first place then, if you can zerg through it, do it alone and skip annoying other people along the way.

this is not zerg vs slow play argument, but from the moment you open lfm and accept some one to your group, this is not your solo zerg run anymore.

And that's where the opinions differ. I can run Shroud with 6 people, but it's faster with 12. If, however, you take 10 minutes to buff, then the entire reason I opened a LFM goes right out the window.

Most people who have been around a while will agree: you should be ready to go when you hit a LFM. I invite people to make it faster, not because we need you to complete.

MrkGrismer

10-24-2011, 09:20 AM

I can see everyone meeting on a high level airship for an Elite Shroud, but for a Normal Shroud I almost never even bother with ship buffs.

I don't get mad if others do, but sometimes it is fun to watch the drama...

FranOhmsford

10-24-2011, 09:22 AM

Just so you know - If the raid is full I'm not going to hold people up.

With that said though I paid good plat for my ship buffs - I'm gonna use em if at all possible.

Yunico

10-24-2011, 09:27 AM

The old saying is true: you dont buff for a Shroud (ok, maybe on Elite).

If you cant get past part 3 with buffs, what are your chances in part 4?

And you wont get any xp buffs either...

hecate355

10-24-2011, 09:37 AM

And that's where the opinions differ. I can run Shroud with 6 people, but it's faster with 12. If, however, you take 10 minutes to buff, then the entire reason I opened a LFM goes right out the window.

Most people who have been around a while will agree: you should be ready to go when you hit a LFM. I invite people to make it faster, not because we need you to complete.

not really disagreeing with what you said, but i tend to think that leader of a party should at least attempt making it work as a group run, sometimes there are valid reasons for delays.

and indeed, if you join a group you should be ready to go, i always try to drop everything not related to upcoming quest, if i see people being ready and about to go.

i can bring 1 example, i posted lfm for something, stating that im about to start and whoever joins should know the way etc, didnt really expect anyone to join first place, just thought maybe some1 wants to get piece of that exp.
but some people joined and i adjusted my play style to that group composition. i didnt just run to the end leaving em into dust. there is difference between total ignorance and being nanny for your group. i personally prefer it being somewhere at middle.

i agree your 6 man shroud vs 12 man shroud example, you have every right to expect quick run, but only if its stated in lfm, if its just blank lfm without criterias like 'know the quest' 'fast paced' etc, then its fairly reasonable to expect skill/gear and play style being quite uneven.

i totally get what you are saying with that 6 vs 12 example, i dont like spending more time in a quest with full group than i would solo or short manning either. in fact if im convinced i can solo something easier and faster than with full group, i usually go and solo it.
that kind of situation is valid for majority of game content(not exaggerating) and its not my fault that devs have taken this direction, rather than encouraging grouping.

cdemeritt

10-24-2011, 10:30 AM

I think the crux of the problem is that many people don't fully understand what most buffs actually do, or what buffs are really needed... I understand that not everyone knows that WF are immune to poison, and hold person... and when I get a FoM/ NP on my WF melee toons, I just smile to myself and whatever... But when I'm playing a cleric and a lvl 20 WF barbarian is practically in tears because no one will give him a NP/fom, it is pretty funny (and sad)... and I'll usually point and laugh... then explain...

Had a person die in the last room before the HoX, the three beholder area... he recalled for ship buffs... This is the kind of thing that make people mad... If I where the guy with the star, I would have booted him for that.... But the guy who recalled was the guy with the star... So I just recalled and dropped...As for starting without... yeah, If it is my party I will, and usually get much better players anyways...

I think my all time favorite was the guy who joined the shroud run, was the last to join, and then asked for a ship invite to a ship with a alter of devastation, so he could craft first...

Oh and yes, There are some that no amount of buffs are going to help...

Krell

10-24-2011, 02:02 PM

/Rant on

Ok, People... I'm annoyed... Why is it that 9 out of 10 quests I join, If I'm the last person to join, I still get my ship buffs and am the first one in the quest? Ship buffs are nice but if you are a lvl 20 Barbarian, and you need 10 minutes worth of ship buffs for a "Normal" shroud, you might want to rethink some build choices.. It is really bothersome to join a group, get to the quest and watch half the party run back to their ships or worse ask for ship invites because they only have a lvl 30 ship...

Please make haste to the quest... When a 20 minute quest takes 40 minutes because people "need" ship buffs... you are wasting my time... I want to get in and start the quest, not stand around for another 15 minutes waiting for you to beat up the training dummy... 99% of the time, the buff isn't needed...

And along those lines, If you advertise a raid in the Sub-T, I expect we are going to go to that raid, not take the scenic route and exploring every nook and cranny along the way, or chase after every possible red name... and watch as the party keeps running after whatever it was you decided you must chase... (even though it already rebounded...) Let's get to the raid you advertized for. If you wanted to explore the Sub-T, put together an exploration group. and if you don't know the way well, it isn't that difficult to keep up... and make the effort to stick with the group...

/rant off...

Arg... just needed to vent... Ship buffs and raid leader lately have been just pushing my buttons...

Well, first I need to get my ship buffs. Then I need to get my house P buffs because jump and stuff is nice. I also have some house J favor and like to get those buffs. Then I go to the quest but if everyone is not there I might go back to house P because those buffs are shorter. If there is a mail box on the way I might make a quick stop to see what sold. If I come back to the quest and everyone isn't there, I might check the nearest AH, unless my buffs are running low again.

Ok, although this is actually just humor, I have actually seen it happen more than once and feel the OP's pain! When I join a group, I try to be buffed and at the quest in 1-2 minutes, and if something odd happens let the leader or party know with an ETA.