Heavy Tempest II (12 Ranger/7 Fighter/1 Barbarian)

[LuKaSu]

So, it seems like Rangers get no pug love in higher levels. Maybe they just don't like my ranger, who's a squishy elf, who I created at the start, before I figured out character planning. I don't know. But I've decided to scrap him and re-build him as a Heavier, more melee-focused character. I still think that Rangers have a ton going for them, but we need more hp. So this guy has 7 fighter levels, for fighter toughness and the extra feats, so I can pile on a few extra toughness feats. I think this guy has about twice the hp as my current ranger, so I'm looking forward to him.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Neutral Good Dwarf Male
(7 Fighter \ 1 Barbarian \ 12 Ranger)
Hit Points: 478
Spell Points: 140
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 20
Reflex: 13
Will: 5

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 18 25
Dexterity 14 16
Constitution 18 20
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 6 6

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Bow Strength
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Tower Shield Proficiency


Level 3 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility
Feat: (Automatic) Dismiss Rage
Feat: (Automatic) Fast Movement
Feat: (Automatic) Rage


Level 4 (Ranger)
Feat: (Automatic) Rapid Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 5 (Ranger)
Feat: (Automatic) Diehard


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack


Level 7 (Ranger)


Level 8 (Ranger)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Manyshot


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 10 (Ranger)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Wild Empathy


Level 11 (Ranger)


Level 12 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion


Level 13 (Ranger)


Level 14 (Ranger)
Feat: (Automatic) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Precise Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Precise Shot


Level 15 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 16 (Fighter)


Level 17 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting


Level 20 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Reduction Boost I
Enhancement: Ranger Energy Resistance Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack II
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Dwarven Tactics I
Enhancement: Ranger Swamp Lore I
Enhancement: Ranger Swamp Lore II
Enhancement: Ranger Desert Lore I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy III
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) II
Enhancement: Ranger Item Defense I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness IV
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest II
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III

[LuKaSu]

Here is the Utility Version of the Build. Replacing the Barb level with Rogue, you trade 2 Str, 4 hp, 10% movement speed, and a couple little rages for full disable, search, spot, umd, and some open lock. The downside of the utility build is that full melee potential comes later, as the ranger levels don't hit 12 until level 20, to keep skills maxed.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Dwarf Male
(7 Fighter \ 1 Rogue \ 12 Ranger)
Hit Points: 474
Spell Points: 140
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 15
Will: 5

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 23
Dexterity 14 16
Constitution 16 18
Intelligence 16 16
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 6 6

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Dwarven Stability
Feat: (Automatic) Dwarven Stonecutting
Feat: (Automatic) Giant Evasion
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Orc and Goblin Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Poison Save Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Spell Save Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Dwarven Waraxe
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Tower Shield Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Trip


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility
Feat: (Automatic) Bow Strength
Feat: (Automatic) Wild Empathy


Level 4 (Ranger)
Feat: (Automatic) Rapid Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 5 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Spring Attack


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Diehard


Level 7 (Ranger)


Level 8 (Fighter)


Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 10 (Ranger)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Manyshot


Level 11 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 12 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Wild Empathy


Level 13 (Ranger)


Level 14 (Fighter)


Level 15 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion


Level 16 (Ranger)


Level 17 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 18 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Precise Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Precise Shot


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Ranger Energy Resistance Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack II
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Ranger Swamp Lore I
Enhancement: Ranger Swamp Lore II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy III
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) II
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness IV
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I

[Alex301]

You made quite a few sacrifices for the extra toughness feats imo. I'd drop most of them for weapon focus: slashing, weapon specialisation: slashing, khopesh proficiency, quickdraw and i'd also consider getting improved critical: ranged. I'd also go half elf for 3d6 sneak attack damage and human versatility damage boost or go half orc for more action boosts and +4 str. This will increase your dps considerably.

Unless you're tanking, 500+ hp is plenty for most content. There are some places where more would certainly be nice but it's not necessary imo.

12 ranger/ 8 fighter is also worth considering as you'd gain an extra feat and +1 damage from fighter khopesh specialisation I. This would mean losing barbarian damage boost I and 10% movement speed however.

Obviously pick up the kensei enhancements now. I'd drop critical accuracy III; these enhancements are useless and I begrudge having to pick up critical accuracy II to qualify for kensei. I think you'll also find barbarian damage reduction I, ranger energy resistance boost I and all the lores fairly useless too, but then there isn't much else worth picking up. Maybe get sprint boost IV and pick up ranger extra action boosts in their place?

[wax_on_wax_off]

Swap the fighter levels for barbarian levels and you have an awesome thing going.

This (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=337152) post is a little end game oriented but the theory behind the build is solid.

6 (or 7) fighter levels don't really do much as the real power in the fighter class comes at level 12 with kensai power surge. Kensai I just doesn't do all that much. On the other hand, frenzied berzerker is much more evenly spread across the tiers and tier I has quite a lot going for it (primarily the vicious damage which is really nice).

This still lets you take 2 fighter levels for fighter strength I and haste boost for an all around solid build. The utility version that swaps fighter for rogue is fine too (but might be tight on feats). Ideally I'd like the half-elf version with rogue dilettante (still can't do traps but usually better DPS imo than the half-orc version in the build above).

[Alex301]

8 fighter is actually about the same as 6 barbarian/2 fighter. The barbarian levels are less dependent on gear/buffs so they perform better in less favorable conditions and rage/frenzy can be kept up longer than the more limited supply of haste boosts too though.

And while half elf can achieve higher dps, the half orc can have a higher attack bonus and more action boosts. Once half elf is out of haste boost/ HV damage boost it loses a lot of dps. They are both viable choices imo, although i'd go with half elf too.

[EpiKagEMO]

you should just go: 12 ranger 6 barb 2 rogue. barb and ranger give enough points, if you raised intel a bit. 14 intel should do. can even go 28 pt build. uncanny dodges from barb+rogue/ranger evasion. UMD from rogue.

i think you should go d-axes
its like two greataxes in your hand w/o power attack.

[Salvidrim]

12Rgr/7Fgt/1Brb is exactly what I used on this build (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=294196). It was a TN Dwarf (using Dwaxes), and I daresay I often match DPSs of the same level damage-wise. Plus, I love it. =D

I briefly considered 12/6/2 instead, but wanted HasteIII.

My next life will be the reverse, 12Fgt/6Rgr/2Rog, which will be basically the same build (Tn Dwarf, Dwaxes TWF DPS), but KenII/TemI instead of TemII/KenI. I still get evasion, and by taking Rogue instead of Bard I can skill things out. Both get evasion, too.

So yea, excellent option. You'll have good DPS (not "the very top" but more than enough to be very useful), good survivability (saves, HP & evasion), etc.

[Arshan]

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=337192

I think frenzied I adds more overall dps than haste boost III, and in new raids it's good to NOT rely on boosts =)

I assume that 7 fighter is a lot of feats added, i know it, but 4x 3 minutes rage and perma frenzy is something too imo.
20% proc off hand => 10% more 1D12 + 1 + 3 dmg (frenzy + rage) overall, and permanent almost. You get full use of each split, and don't just take barb for its speed.
I think the sinergy between tempest II + frenzy I > sinergy between tempest II + kensai I.
Kensai routes costs a lot of AP too.

I've done all the computations when i made that thread, even if i don't speak about it, and 6 barb 2 fighter is ALWAYS ahead 7 fighter 1 barb or 8 fighter, whatever the situation is, and the highest the fort is, the better it is.

I'm putting in a nutshell what everyone seems to say here, more or less. But as i said i've done the computations and if you want dps i definitely advise you 6 barb 2 fighter over any other split.
Then... it's your call :) I'm just saying

[Hurak]

13 Ranger/6 Barbarian/1 fighter gets you another +1 dam on FE, so if you don't need the last feat spot, drop 1 fighter and take an extra ranger.

[Alex301]

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=337192

I think frenzied I adds more overall dps than haste boost III, and in new raids it's good to NOT rely on boosts =)

I assume that 7 fighter is a lot of feats added, i know it, but 4x 3 minutes rage and perma frenzy is something too imo.
20% proc off hand => 10% more 1D12 + 1 + 3 dmg (frenzy + rage) overall, and permanent almost. You get full use of each split, and don't just take barb for its speed.
I think the sinergy between tempest II + frenzy I > sinergy between tempest II + kensai I.
Kensai routes costs a lot of AP too.

I've done all the computations when i made that thread, even if i don't speak about it, and 6 barb 2 fighter is ALWAYS ahead 7 fighter 1 barb or 8 fighter, whatever the situation is, and the highest the fort is, the better it is.

I'm putting in a nutshell what everyone seems to say here, more or less. But as i said i've done the computations and if you want dps i definitely advise you 6 barb 2 fighter over any other split.
Then... it's your call :) I'm just saying

8 fighter levels also offers +2 damage from weapon specialization feat, +1 from weapon specialization enhancements and +1 from weapon mastery. These are all affected by damage boost and increase critical hit damage. Kensei I will also add +2 seeker.

6 barbarian would perform better for half orcs as they gain an additional +2 strength from enhancements. The 2-12 vicious damage is also unaffected by damage boost so it doesn't perform as well for helfs/humans. If you're playing helf, the extra action boost from kensei also gives you an extra HV damage boost.

[Arshan]

8 fighter levels also offers +2 damage from weapon specialization feat, +1 from weapon specialization enhancements and +1 from weapon mastery. These are all affected by damage boost and increase critical hit damage. Kensei I will also add +2 seeker.

6 barbarian would perform better for half orcs as they gain an additional +2 strength from enhancements. The 2-12 vicious damage is also unaffected by damage boost so it doesn't perform as well for helfs/humans. If you're playing helf, the extra action boost from kensei also gives you an extra HV damage boost.

Well, to be honnest what kensei offersi rather the same as the rage itself of a lvl 6 barbarian, even half elf (expect 2:30-3 minutes rages x 4), +6 STR and CON => +3 to hit/damages, and half orc doesnt bring THAT much to a lvl 6 barbarian only so the difference isnt that shiny.
And Frenzy may not be affected by damage boost, but it's still a PERMANENT 1D12 +1 damage on any swing, untyped.

I really think frenzy I > kensai I in almost any way, but you may like the feats :)

[emptysands]

8 fighter levels also offers +2 damage from weapon specialization feat, +1 from weapon specialization enhancements and +1 from weapon mastery. These are all affected by damage boost and increase critical hit damage. Kensei I will also add +2 seeker.

6 barbarian would perform better for half orcs as they gain an additional +2 strength from enhancements. The 2-12 vicious damage is also unaffected by damage boost so it doesn't perform as well for helfs/humans. If you're playing helf, the extra action boost from kensei also gives you an extra HV damage boost.


Lvl 8 Fighter vs Barb 6/Fighter 2:

Fighter Specified Weapon Specialization I: lvl8, +1 dmg. (specific weapon)
Feat Weapon Specialization: lvl 4, +2 dmg. (specific weapon)
Kensei Specified Weapon Mastery I: lvl6, +2 seeker, +1 tohit/dmg. (specific weapon)
Greater Weapon Focus: lvl8, +1 tohit. (weapon type)

Total: +4dmg/+1tohit/+2seeker for specific weapon. +1 tohit for weapon type.

vs

+8 STR (*) or +10 if HO = +4 dmg/tohit for all weapons including ranged dmg with bow strength.
+6 CON


(*) +4(rage)+2(frenzy)+2(power rage)

Haste Boost III might be worth the numbers, depends on what you are running mostly.

[stoerm]

Hush! Stop making more awesome ranger builds. How am I supposed to make a "sleeper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleeper_%28car%29)" character if everyone finds out you can still (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=258294) get good DPS on a ranger?

[Arshan]

Lvl 8 Fighter vs Barb 6/Fighter 2:

Fighter Specified Weapon Specialization I: lvl8, +1 dmg. (specific weapon)
Feat Weapon Specialization: lvl 4, +2 dmg. (specific weapon)
Kensei Specified Weapon Mastery I: lvl6, +2 seeker, +1 tohit/dmg. (specific weapon)
Greater Weapon Focus: lvl8, +1 tohit. (weapon type)

Total: +4dmg/+1tohit/+2seeker for specific weapon. +1 tohit for weapon type.

vs

+8 STR (*) or +10 if HO = +4 dmg/tohit for all weapons including ranged dmg with bow strength.
+6 CON


(*) +4(rage)+2(frenzy)+2(power rage)

Haste Boost III might be worth the numbers, depends on what you are running mostly.

You sill have haste boost I with 2 fighter, and you forget +7 damage per swing (average) due to frenzy. And as far as kensai I is something good, to make the best use of tempest II 20% proc i think we have to maximize damage per swing, and here frenzy is SIMPLY +7 damage, period.
Add to that that for now, most of the high level content has very high fortification, so don't rely on your crits too much, but more on your guaranteed sources of damages. Frenzy is just a great one :)

And as i said, while 7 fighter 1 barb just uses barb for speed, 6 barb /2 fighter uses both full potential of each split. Fighter is here for the haste boost, for the +1 str, and for the 2 extra feats that are needed i admit it.


Hush! Stop making more awesome ranger builds. How am I supposed to make a "sleeper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleeper_%28car%29)" character if everyone finds out you can still (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=258294) get good DPS on a ranger?

Tempest caps at 12 ;)

[Alex301]

Well, to be honnest what kensei offersi rather the same as the rage itself of a lvl 6 barbarian, even half elf (expect 2:30-3 minutes rages x 4), +6 STR and CON => +3 to hit/damages, and half orc doesnt bring THAT much to a lvl 6 barbarian only so the difference isnt that shiny.
And Frenzy may not be affected by damage boost, but it's still a PERMANENT 1D12 +1 damage on any swing, untyped.

I really think frenzy I > kensai I in almost any way, but you may like the feats :)

All the bonuses barbarian add are static and gear makes no difference. Comparing these bonuses with a fighter's haste boost isn't easy as the increase to dps it brings is dynamic and will increase as your dame output increases. For most people i'm sure barbarian will add more, but with great gear, buffs etc i wouldn't be surprised if kensei pulls ahead.

The difference in dps is close to negligible for the most part though. I'd just go with whichever builds seems more attractive.

[Arshan]

All the bonuses barbarian add are static and gear makes no difference. Comparing these bonuses with a fighter's haste boost isn't easy as the increase to dps it brings is dynamic and will increase as your dame output increases. For most people i'm sure barbarian will add more, but with great gear, buffs etc i wouldn't be surprised if kensei pulls ahead.

The difference in dps is close to negligible for the most part though. I'd just go with whichever builds seems more attractive.

Haste boost I vs Haste boost III looses only 10% speed attack WHILE boosted. I think it's important to take in consideration that the time you're boosted is limited. And with 7 levels of fighter, not sure you can achieve 12 boosts/rest.

New content implies dps that is constant, not only relying on boosts, cause you'll run out of these pretty quickly on Velah/Elite Sully/Horoth.

And to be honnest i tend to pull aggro on whatever i meet with 12 ranger 6 barb 2 fighter (so i'm careful when needed of course), but haste boosts, as great as it is, is a bit overestimated now that u11 is out imo :)

[Alex301]

Haste boost I vs Haste boost III looses only 10% speed attack WHILE boosted. I think it's important to take in consideration that the time you're boosted is limited. And with 7 levels of fighter, not sure you can achieve 12 boosts/rest.

New content implies dps that is constant, not only relying on boosts, cause you'll run out of these pretty quickly on Velah/Elite Sully/Horoth.

And to be honnest i tend to pull aggro on whatever i meet with 12 ranger 6 barb 2 fighter (so i'm careful when needed of course), but haste boosts, as great as it is, is a bit overestimated now that u11 is out imo :)

The top dps builds all rely on boosts to some extent, with helf fighters relying on it the most. All builds come with their strengths and weaknesses though and no one can claim top dps in all situations. Better burst dps isn't necessarily better or worse than greater sustained dps; it's just a matter of preference.

The difference between the 'top' dps builds is all fairly minor, with gear making much more difference than splashing barbarian over fighter for example.

[Arshan]

The top dps builds all rely on boosts to some extent, with helf fighters relying on it the most. All builds come with their strengths and weaknesses though and no one can claim top dps in all situations. Better burst dps isn't necessarily better or worse than greater sustained dps; it's just a matter of preference.

The difference between the 'top' dps builds is all fairly minor, with gear making much more difference than splashing barbarian over fighter for example.

Well i've played both build we're here considering and i can tell you one i way over the other for almost everything, to not say everything. Though everyone is free to play what he likes and what he WANTS ;) . 12 ranger / 7 fighter /1 barb is a really good build, so i was just speaking of daring going a wee up ahead only.

The final output of dps is rather the same i guess anyway :)

Just a question, are u planning to use the evasion of the ranger or not (aka will u wear a marilith chain ?)

[LuKaSu]

I guess my main issue is, I've never really had a main that relied on boosts, so they seem to me like they would run out too quickly. I've had several divines, a monk, an AA Ranger, and a Rogue/Tempest combo, and I've always shyed away from the chars with use-uppable boosts. Bards with their songs, barbs with their rages, paladins with all of their clickies (still not sure if I'd be up for that. I'm a bit of a perma-n00b, who's quite good, but only with the first half of the game). So as a n00b (me), would you recommend the 6 barb 2 fighter, or the version heavy on the fighter? Also, if I put barb levels in there more, would it be better to go WF instead of Dwarf, so I don't have to worry about being fatigued?

[Arshan]

If i had to level something with 12 ranger on it, i would start with it, simply because at 12, you then have your TWF line for free, otherwise you have to wait for it.