Proof is in the Poison.

[Iwinbyrollup]

Why is everyone so afraid of this quest? I don't get it. This is like one of the easiest quests in the Market. All you need is a little acid resistance and you're good.

I don't understand why people are so afraid/hateful of this one? What the hell is so bad about it?

It's a long quest, the experience and rewards aren't great. The map is confusing to follow and if you don't know where you're going next you'll probably end up doubling back on yourself several times throughout. Yes, it's easy if you know what you need and come in prepared, but if you PUG it and end up with unprepared folks it can be a nightmare. And in the end, the nightmare isn't worth the rewards you get out of it.

I personally like it but I understand why others don't. I really don't think it's one of the easiest in the Marketplace though. The only one which comes close in difficulty is Freshen the Air. I mean, you're comparing it here to Missing in Action, the Sunken Sewers, Redfang, Swiped Signet, and Devil Assault. I guess Devil Assault might be considered difficult by someone?

EDIT: I ninja'd the OP. Oh, fun.

[Meetch1972]

Elite once and done for me if I can, and doesn't have to be at level...

If you like a challenging quest with twists, turns and traps, it's good. But the end reward xp just isn't worth the time it typically takes to complete, IMNSHO.

The acid resistance point is valid, but I think you also need to remember the protection from magic missiles. There are an awful lot of casters, and if I don't prepare to prevent all that damage, I'm forever topping up HPs.

[Foxhound3857]

Why is everyone so afraid of this quest? I don't get it. This is like one of the easiest quests in the Market. All you need is a little acid resistance and you're good.

I don't understand why people are so afraid/hateful of this one? What the hell is so bad about it?

[Kmnh]

This quest WAS scary. Before ship buffs, guild augment slots and some changes to the jumping puzzles. Now it's fairly easy, if you bring enough resources.

[SemiraLynn]

On Elite it can be a bit rough with casters constantly stunning or hypnotizing you. Even more irritating when you're soloing it at level. But it's fun and everyone definitely should give it a go at least once.

[Aashrym]

Why is everyone so afraid of this quest? I don't get it. This is like one of the easiest quests in the Market. All you need is a little acid resistance and you're good.

I don't understand why people are so afraid/hateful of this one? What the hell is so bad about it?

It depends on where you are getting your acid resistance and what other resources you have available. If I go in there with hour long ship buffs with twinked equipment and a wealth of consumables I'm good.

If I were to walk in there with my first character on a 28 point build, no plat, no guild yet, and no idea what to expect I would die.

The difference is knowing what to bring and actually having it.

[Ugumagre]

Why is everyone so afraid of this quest? I don't get it. This is like one of the easiest quests in the Market. All you need is a little acid resistance and you're good.

I don't understand why people are so afraid/hateful of this one? What the hell is so bad about it?

Questions:
What is a "little acid resistance"? 5?20?30?
Normal? Hard? Elite?
Character Lvl? TR? PUG? Guild run? Solo?

Surely you are megauber, but as I did this question the first time at level, it took us 3 hours (There were a lot of RL issues also "have to bring kids to bed" and so on...as we are a group of RL friends, np) and 22 deaths.
Now is your turn to tell me how much I suck, feel free.

[Caliban]

Why is everyone so afraid of this quest? I don't get it. This is like one of the easiest quests in the Market. All you need is a little acid resistance and you're good.

I don't understand why people are so afraid/hateful of this one? What the hell is so bad about it?

Eh, just someone posting to brag about how easy the game is for them.

Congrats, have a cookie. :)

[Razcar]

It's the first "tough" quest new players face, with the possible exception of Irestone Inlet. Irestone has respawns and open area causing new players to run around like calfs on spring pasture, separate from the group and get killed. Proof is in the Poison has buff requirements - Acid and preferably MM protection due to its high concentration of casters (and has few shrines to boot). No other quest before had any requirements like this.

So no, I wouldn't like to run this with pugs and just solo it myself. Other market stuff I don't mind as much to pug if I get bored soloing, but not this one.

[Cogdoc]

Why is everyone so afraid of this quest? I don't get it. This is like one of the easiest quests in the Market. All you need is a little acid resistance and you're good.

I don't understand why people are so afraid/hateful of this one? What the hell is so bad about it?

Dear Foxhound,

this quest is very hard compared to all the others players experience before this one. It doesnt mean it cannot be done, soloing Lailat can also be done, but I dont tell you that you are not a man enough until you didnt do it.

DDO is not always forgiving to new players. Getting into this quest as a newbie can be a very threatening experience for many, and maybe the first time for them to think about buffs and equipment needed to complete a certain quest.

Cogdoc

[Foxhound3857]

Eh, just someone posting to brag about how easy the game is for them.

Congrats, have a cookie. :)

If that were true, I wouldn't have such a hard time with quests like Durks Got a Secret and Haverdasher, but I do. Those quests are way harder for me.

[Ugumagre]

If that were true, I wouldn't have such a hard time with quests like Durks Got a Secret and Haverdasher, but I do. Those quests are way harder for me.

Dear Foxhound,

Just a question, please do not feel insulted, it is really (really) not my intention:

Are you trolling?

[Foxhound3857]

Dear Foxhound,

Just a question, please do not feel insulted, it is really (really) not my intention:

Are you trolling?

...

I can't tell if you're trolling, or just really, really thick.

[sirgog]

This quest was nerfed hard. It used to be a lot harder than it is now, the casters had significantly nastier spells when it first came out. (Not to mention Dungeon Scaling making everything generally easier).

When the quest launched, we were at a level cap of 14, and the quest was considered fairly difficult to solo on Elite at any level, which just isn't true of any other level 1-6 quest (except one or two with failure conditions).

It's very much beatable at-level (and was pre-nerf too), but it is much more punishing of poor or sloppy play than any other low level dungeons.

[parvo]

Why is everyone so afraid of this quest? I don't get it. This is like one of the easiest quests in the Market. All you need is a little acid resistance and you're good.

I don't understand why people are so afraid/hateful of this one? What the hell is so bad about it?

We run poison in permadeath pretty regularly. There is no question it is the hardest level four quest, but it's fun and doable.

[Ugumagre]

...

I can't tell if you're trolling, or just really, really thick.

Then I am really, really thick. As a brick. It just doesnt get in my head that you have no troubles finishing Proof with a lvl 4 character, but have troubles to finish Durk or Haverdasher with a lvl 2 character. On level, Normal. Well, sure, now that I think of it, Haverdasher has no shrines...

Could we have more info? Are you soloing with a Rogue?

[somenewnoob]

Ah Proof......the quest that at level 4 on your first life/first toon makes you say "Oh, maybe I'm not so badass after all....."

[Matuse]

Oh god, no shrines in haverdasher! I totally need to rest up after the first two scorpions before I can take on the other 2...and sometimes a named one! AAAAGH!

I'll take 50 magic missile/melf's spamming invisible mages any day over that! It's got ONE shrine, and therefore is automatically easier.

[FrancisP.Fancypants]

Why is everyone so afraid of this quest? I don't get it. This is like one of the easiest quests in the Market. All you need is a little acid resistance and you're good.

I don't understand why people are so afraid/hateful of this one? What the hell is so bad about it?


There's not really a reason to run it other than the challenge (and if you know what to prepare for it isn't much of one), which means most of the PUGs are going to be full of players who haven't run it and don't know what's in store.

Between the acid, the magic missiles, grease knockdown, and only one shrine in the whole quest.. I'm not going in there with people I don't know.

[zeonardo]

WARNING: Possible WALLOFTEXT ahead.

I like Proof.
It's on my list of consistent and PnP style quests.
- Proof, Swiped, Irestone, Freshen, Stormcleave, Bounty, Korromar, Redwillow, Gwylan's, Mirra's, Deleras and Catacombs (they feel the same), Rainbow, Acid Wit, Prey and a few others.


I think you should try it at least once.
It's hard for the level indeed and has many wipe-possible spots, (blades below and fire above, anyone?)

Challenges (trying not to spoil):
- First mob wave. You were fighting mostly easy-to-hit kobolds speedbumpers till then.
- Blades and fire. If you don't know what is coming, you-will-die! Period.
- Super Mario I: Lever upstairs.
- Super Mario II: Lever on the acid cage
- Shrine: Yay we're safe now! *weird blob sound* *acid hissing* *ding*
- Run around the shot-stand: Open the door, acid walking or wall climbing with MM coming from above.
- Ninjas: Yay a lonely foe! Let's kill it!! *surrounded* *ding*
- Grease: For overkill!
- Wait! Is this spider web?: (The best part in this quest IMHO. Felt like roleplaying on the first time. Perfect for a break-in feeling, eventho it's the only way)
- Die on the shore: And when you think you will finish it... it's just too much.

This is real challenge IMHO. Not a beefed-up boss or wing nerfs.

[Cendaer]

It's the first "tough" quest new players face, with the possible exception of Irestone Inlet. Irestone has respawns

Irestone doesn't have respawns, it has roaming patrols (using their hide/sneak skills to be invisible to those with low spot skill) which are commonly mistaken for respawns.

[Razcar]

Irestone doesn't have respawns, it has roaming patrols (using their hide/sneak skills to be invisible to those with low spot skill) which are commonly mistaken for respawns.
Yes, and those roaming patrols respawn. And while I'm no Irestone expert :), the ddowiki agrees with me.

[Afyndax]

Honestly, as a new player.. Proof was one of those ´moments´. I did it on normal at level solo and without being in a guild. I read the wiki, had the map open (which doesn´t help much) and basically knew it was going to be a long, challenging dungeon.

It was one of the best experiences yet in DDO. It was challenging to the point of wanting to kick myself for jumping off something and losing 2hps of fall damage. Twice I sat at the rest shrine waiting for the 15 mins to finish. I was frequently under 10hps and hoping a breakable would drop a cure light wounds potion.

But the big thing is, it just gave a unique experience that was new at that point. The good thing is, if you don´t like it, it is completely optional since the exp isn´t that good and it is at a point where even FTP players aren´t starving for exp to level up.

[HAL]

Why is everyone so afraid of this quest? I don't get it. This is like one of the easiest quests in the Market. All you need is a little acid resistance and you're good.

I don't understand why people are so afraid/hateful of this one? What the hell is so bad about it?

I'm not afraid of it. I refuse to do it because it's just not worth the irritation.

[Matuse]

Yes, and those roaming patrols respawn. And while I'm no Irestone expert , the ddowiki agrees with me.

Then the wiki, and you, are wrong. I once went AFK in there for 40 minutes after I cleaned out the first couple of camps near the entrance and then wandered all the non-camp areas and killed off every patrol I could find. I was trying for Conquest, and had RL stuff to do at the same time, so I could afford to step away for a while.

No patrols ever respawned.

[Cendaer]

Yes, and those roaming patrols respawn. And while I'm no Irestone expert :), the ddowiki agrees with me.

...and...as usual...a wiki is only as good as the information which is fed to it.

Just because you found it in a wiki, does not make it true.

Raise your spot so you can see all the sneaky hobgoblins, slay everything, stand around and wait, a loooong, loooooooong time, and then note the results.

[Razcar]

Raise your spot so you can see all the sneaky hobgoblins, slay everything, stand around and wait, a loooong, loooooooong time, and then note the results.
Oh I can see them alright. Even see them popping back with the distinct blue DDO mob respawn graphic effect, right in front of me. Maybe they stop to respawn when you cleared all the regular mobs? Well, then it's Cendaer and Matuse against the wiki and Razcar. Who will win the Irestone wars? ;)

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I don't understand why anyone is scared of any quest! (with any group!)

Well....unless you play a healer anyway...lol


But I love PiitP and similar challenging quests..... I love them even more with bad PUGs.

I do wish there was a shrine near the beginning though.....cause way to many people drop group cause they aren't having fun as a soul stone. (res shrine only would be ok)

[Koshy11]

*cough* wimps *cough*

Okay, if you would actually sit back a little and consider this: Pre level 10 F2P quests are a learning curve for newlings to learn what DDO is about.

Proof is a little speed bump along the way that teaches you about resource. I think besides the end reward being meh... it's quite a well made quest to teach the newlings the 'hard way' how DDO is not just a rinse and repeat bore.

I am fairly surprised no one mentioned the pit.

Personally I like these 'most hated' quests since they are out of the norm of the other rush and hack quests. It gives the game flavour if you ask me.

[Ugumagre]

*cough* wimps *cough*

Okay, if you would actually sit back a little and consider this: Pre level 10 F2P quests are a learning curve for newlings to learn what DDO is about.

Proof is a little speed bump along the way that teaches you about resource. I think besides the end reward being meh... it's quite a well made quest to teach the newlings the 'hard way' how DDO is not just a rinse and repeat bore.

I am fairly surprised no one mentioned the pit.

Personally I like these 'most hated' quests since they are out of the norm of the other rush and hack quests. It gives the game flavour if you ask me.

No one mentions The Pit because the The Pit is great XP.
Chronoscope is bad XP, is difficult BUT is fun.
Proof is just fun because is extremly challenging, but actually is not a fun quest, and it is horrible xp.
For the OP, take for example The Depths (4 and 5 lvls). In the time you do once proof is in the poison with good gear and ship buffs, I think it is posible to do the four Depths quests TWICE, with Korthos gear. (in both cases lvl 4 Chars, normal PUG or solo)

[FrancisP.Fancypants]

Then the wiki, and you, are wrong. I once went AFK in there for 40 minutes after I cleaned out the first couple of camps near the entrance and then wandered all the non-camp areas and killed off every patrol I could find. I was trying for Conquest, and had RL stuff to do at the same time, so I could afford to step away for a while.

No patrols ever respawned.

Uh...either they respawn or there are about 30 patrols. Every time I run the thing, either the lone archer or the 2 fighter/1 witchdoctor groups pop in just when I reach a camp and usually again while I'm looting the chest.

Curiously, I always thought most spawns in DDO were triggered by movement.

[PurdueDave]

Why is everyone so afraid of this quest? I don't get it. This is like one of the easiest quests in the Market. All you need is a little acid resistance and you're good.

I don't understand why people are so afraid/hateful of this one? What the hell is so bad about it?

It's a weird quest. For some classes it's trivial. For others it's a pain. And it's almost always harder in a group than alone.

[Sarisa]

I actually tried this the other day. Single TR, so could only open hard, and solo'ed. It's a lot better experience when "streaking" than I remember, netting 9400 total experience for 32 minutes. If I remembered it better, and didn't take a wrong turn, it probably could have been done in 28 minutes. Not too bad for a solo run.

It's also WAY easier than it used to be, due to the power of the newer twink gear (Chrono stuff especially, crafted items), ship buffs, and a stack of Shield clickies.

I feel it's definitely one of the more difficult quests out there for ungeared or newer players, and it's one that I feel could definitely eat a Permadeath player or two.

I actually felt that Freshen the Air was a little bit more challenging, it's just a lot shorter.

[Cogdoc]

Proof is in the poison and Freshen the air are two great quests to be done in a group on elite. Real DDO feeling.

Soloing them - not so exciting for me.
Grouping them with a fully blown overpowered TR group - not challenging
Grouping them on level with skilled players who dont have overpowered gear - challenge and excitement.

Cogdoc

[Templarion]

Proof is in the Poison is my one of my favorite low level quests. It is challenging and long, full of surprising traps and puzzling obstacles - just as every quest should be! :)

Too bad, the quest lacks of xp so bad there is no reason to run it. No good named items there either.

I really would like to do quests like these for XP and/or good loot but grinding xp is taking enough time already so I don't have time for sightseeing quests - too bad for me. :(

[LrdSlvrhnd]

Uh...either they respawn or there are about 30 patrols. Every time I run the thing, either the lone archer or the 2 fighter/1 witchdoctor groups pop in just when I reach a camp and usually again while I'm looting the chest.

Curiously, I always thought most spawns in DDO were triggered by movement.

There are a few spawn points (such as near where the big wolf sometimes is) where you can sit there and watch 'em spawn. However, they only do so a limited number of times each. It's like Kobold Assault, if you leave the fort and find one of the spawn points, you can camp nearby and clean it out fairly safely without worrying too much about the kobolds from the other half-dozen points... but eventually you'll have to move to find another spot to complete the quest, because they'll stop spawning there.

"Limited respawning" would probably be more accurate. However, the wiki's "spawning/respawning monsters" line is a bit of a catch-all - it doesn't mean that there are monsters that will spawn AND monsters that will respawn, it means that there are monsters that will pop out of nowhere given certain conditions (you walk into a room and get ambushed, you open a chest and get ambushed, you blow up a ship and a bunch of angry hobgoblins run to the beach, you kill something and a few minutes later it gets replaced...)

[MRMechMan]

It's a lot harder then most quests in the 3-5 lvl range. I make sure to do it at least once during every TR. Breaks up the monotony of invis zerging Tangleroot/necro1 :)

Not the best xp/min (garbage actually). Pretty bad loot (I've never seen anything named). Doesn't mean it's a bad quest, but it does need some love. And maybe a 2nd shrine.

[samthedagger]

The XP/minute ratio is horrible because of all the back-tracking you have to do. The chest/minute ratio is likewise horrible. That said, it is very easy if someone in the group can load everyone out with acid resistance, be that from a guild ship, spell, or whatever.

I usually solo it elite once around level 7 or so and never come back.

[Afyndax]

There are a few spawn points (such as near where the big wolf sometimes is) where you can sit there and watch 'em spawn. However, they only do so a limited number of times each. It's like Kobold Assault, if you leave the fort and find one of the spawn points, you can camp nearby and clean it out fairly safely without worrying too much about the kobolds from the other half-dozen points... but eventually you'll have to move to find another spot to complete the quest, because they'll stop spawning there.

"Limited respawning" would probably be more accurate. However, the wiki's "spawning/respawning monsters" line is a bit of a catch-all - it doesn't mean that there are monsters that will spawn AND monsters that will respawn, it means that there are monsters that will pop out of nowhere given certain conditions (you walk into a room and get ambushed, you open a chest and get ambushed, you blow up a ship and a bunch of angry hobgoblins run to the beach, you kill something and a few minutes later it gets replaced...)

All you have to do is try for the conquest bonus and you can tell it is limited respawns. You HAVE to do the boat to get the conquest bonus, there never will be enough mobs without killing the ones on the boat.

[MRMechMan]

The XP/minute ratio is horrible because of all the back-tracking you have to do. The chest/minute ratio is likewise horrible. That said, it is very easy if someone in the group can load everyone out with acid resistance, be that from a guild ship, spell, or whatever.

I usually solo it elite once around level 7 or so and never come back.


Ah ha! With new bravery bonus you have to solo it at lvl 6 instead :P

But yea, it's not hard. None of the quests around this level are. But it is harder, and requires a bit of planning. Can't just invis by everything, and even if you could, you are right in that there is a LOT of distance to cover, levers to pull, etc...could double/triple the xp and it probably still wouldn't be up there with the top 4-5lvl xp quests.

[Enoach]

As far as quests go at this level, this quest has a lot to offer players as a teaching tool.

Currently with XP Bonus of Streaks this quest can net you 9K+ XP.

Is it long - Yes
Is it Challenging - Yes
Can you have fun even with a PuG - Yes

All of the Traps are 100% avoidable - So Trapping is not required

The Element of Choice - Acid, usually in the form of Acid Arrow. A Resist 10 is all you need. For those with Wand capabilities Resist Wands go a long way. If not, Resist Potions. A Resist Acid Cloak is also a good investment. Additional favor with House P. can get you access to Resist elements for a price that will last 30 minutes.

Casters main Spells - Magic Missiles and Charm. Charm can be defended by using Protection from Evil which also comes in wands and potions.

Poison - Spiders will poison you if given the chance, At Level 4 Poison resistance potions are not available - here a more Reactive approach may be needed in the form of Lesser Restore.

Jump - Two Jump potions can help bypass two areas

There is only 1 shrine. On normal you can wait 15 minutes or Track back. Hard and Elite that is not an option so should be used wisely.

Some suggestions on ways to make this quest easier at level:

Stick together
Clear each section before you move ahead

================================================== ===========
Prior to the nerf on this quest - a full group of level 8s would shudder at the thought of doing this quest. This quest and the House K fire elemental one have had the most screams of being too hard. They raised the Level on the House K one, I wish they would have done it on this one as well.

Never be afraid of a quest and the challenges it holds. Instead, prepare yourself and work together and have fun.

[Robai]

I remember doing this quest the very first time. I tried to solo it with my lvl 3 character (1 Fight/2 Rog), it was the very first time I entered Marketplace and when I turn left it was the first quest I tried to do.
Oh God, it was fun :)

This was the quest where I used all my hp potions (I had more than 100), because I thought it is a short quest and soon will be the end, but it was endless :)

Now with guild buffs this quest isn't that challenging as it was before. Pugging is fun there, just make sure everyone has Acid res 20.

It is the best XP lvl 4 quest (maybe not good XP/min, but for F2P it is a good XP source).
Couple months ago I did it with random lvl 5 pugs and it took about 50 min to complete and it gave about 6500+ XP.

[FrancisP.Fancypants]

There are a few spawn points (such as near where the big wolf sometimes is) where you can sit there and watch 'em spawn. However, they only do so a limited number of times each. It's like Kobold Assault, if you leave the fort and find one of the spawn points, you can camp nearby and clean it out fairly safely without worrying too much about the kobolds from the other half-dozen points... but eventually you'll have to move to find another spot to complete the quest, because they'll stop spawning there.

"Limited respawning" would probably be more accurate. However, the wiki's "spawning/respawning monsters" line is a bit of a catch-all - it doesn't mean that there are monsters that will spawn AND monsters that will respawn, it means that there are monsters that will pop out of nowhere given certain conditions (you walk into a room and get ambushed, you open a chest and get ambushed, you blow up a ship and a bunch of angry hobgoblins run to the beach, you kill something and a few minutes later it gets replaced...)

I feel enlightened.

[Sarisa]

Note that guild poison and cure potions can be used at earlier levels than the normal NPC bought ones.