Simple Mabar fix for level spawns/camping

[Riggs]

Like last time - the constant need for high level players to basically run away from low level players because;

a) the level of monsters is keyed to the lowest level near, and

b) players can do nothing to stop someone from basically wasting their time - which is the definition of griefing.

So - easy fix.

Make monsters spawn by the highest level players in the area - or at least the average level of the mass - not the single lowbie being a jerk. (sometimes unknowingly - but a jerk nonetheless because almost not a single person leaves when you ask nicely)

They want to camp a group of level 20s with their level 8-12 useless character? Fine they wont be able to kill anything and will die in seconds.

Otherwise the griefing continues once again.

[Riggs]

I guess that leaves open the possibility of higher level people griefing lower levels too by mobbing an area and running away...

But either it is done by low levels or high level - the second is more obvious griefing so should be reportable.

Or maybe just reduce the limit on when you dont get drops from lower level spawns - I mean it is not like it is hard for a 12 person group full of casters and clerics to kill the spawns anyway.

Either way - lower level people should be hiding from the 'scary monsters' more than high level players being forced to run away from low level characters if they want motes for their time.

[Xioden]

They want to camp a group of level 20s with their level 8-12 useless character? Fine they wont be able to kill anything and will die in seconds.

Or if they know what they're doing they earn more motes per hour than anyone else, since it's pretty much the best motes/hour aside from buying them.

[Galeria]

I don't understand why the instances don't automatically sort people by level using the same level ranges that you will be sorted into inside the summoning chamber.

It shouldn't be too hard to limit the instance list to only those instances that are initialized by existing players in a specific level range.

[Riggs]

Or if they know what they're doing they earn more motes per hour than anyone else, since it's pretty much the best motes/hour aside from buying them.

Someone low level is going to have a far harder time stealing kills...unless you are implying that 1 level 10-12 mediocre half caster/half ranger (or whatever else pikes us) can kill a group of undead faster than 12 level 20 casters/clerics?

[Riggs]

I don't understand why the instances don't automatically sort people by level using the same level ranges that you will be sorted into inside the summoning chamber.

It shouldn't be too hard to limit the instance list to only those instances that are initialized by existing players in a specific level range.

that was actually suggested at one point the past time too I believe.

A player had spent 15 minutes shadowing our group, a uber sorc/ranger build. People tried vainly to get him/her to leave, but after a while they must have gotten bored or went to shrine.

Not long after they came back.

You tell <\Player X>, 'back to grief us some more?'
\Player X> tells you, 'yup, that's why i'm standing on top of you.. public area'

So the person admits point blank they are knowingly griefing us - I sent a ticket in on principle (and they also insulted me in the reply) - but what is going to happen?

Nothing just like last event.

A fun-ish event that continues to allow griefing.

[-Nismu-]

I really hate how high level soloers come to steal spots from low level groups.. they only need to stand on area and soon party has to move or get slaughtered by vampires and mummy lords. or then casters waste theirs all sp to take them out.

and other problem with casters slaughtering the creatures easily and too fast for melees to get any items (well some but nothing like the casters get in party.)- casters get like 1-3 items per mob spawn while melees are lucky to get even 1 per 10 spawns.

[Galeria]

A player had spent 15 minutes shadowing our group, a uber sorc/ranger build. People tried vainly to get him/her to leave, but after a while they must have gotten bored or went to shrine.


I have never heard of an uber sorc/ranger build. Now I am totally distracted from the topic at hand...

[fuzzy1guy]

Ask the low person nicely to move on. Explain that he is hurting your spawn rates. And not helping his own any either. Point him to his own level range of monsters. Offer suggestions.

When all that fails.. Wait for a massive spawn. Agro them all without killing any. And go stand directly on his dot and shield block till they die from random swings here and there off the mobs. Some even use aoe attacks.

Any moderately geared high level with group backup can take quite a beating. The lowbie can not. Use cold to heal the mobs.

Yeah.. not cool to do. but if your group has been minding their own business parked in an off the path area... And a low guy comes in and ruins your fun. On purpose. After being asked nicely to stop. Do whatever it takes.


Also. Take note of their name/guild as well. You may have a chance to balance the karma later in the year for them.


Kobold remembers waterworks... Player remembers mabar... ;)

[Delt]

Someone low level is going to have a far harder time stealing kills...unless you are implying that 1 level 10-12 mediocre half caster/half ranger (or whatever else pikes us) can kill a group of undead faster than 12 level 20 casters/clerics?

You don't have to kill anything faster, you just have to be the first person/group to do damage.

For the record, I enjoy solo camping busy areas.

[AX1200]

As someone mentioned, you don't need to kill anything. So load a low-level caster up with aoe spells, wait down the hill from Delera's Tomb where most people tended to camp. As soon as you see spawns start spamming spells. You'll tag most of the mobs, so get most of the loot. Easy 5k+ motes an hour, it just ****es a lot of people off.

Yeah this was the method I used with my level 10 Earth Savant, farming was much faster than when I was hanging around in a party on my paladin. Just kept chucking Acid Rain left and right.

[Xioden]

Someone low level is going to have a far harder time stealing kills...unless you are implying that 1 level 10-12 mediocre half caster/half ranger (or whatever else pikes us) can kill a group of undead faster than 12 level 20 casters/clerics?

As someone mentioned, you don't need to kill anything. So load a low-level caster up with aoe spells, wait down the hill from Delera's Tomb where most people tended to camp. As soon as you see spawns start spamming spells. You'll tag most of the mobs, so get most of the loot. Easy 5k+ motes an hour, it just ****es a lot of people off.

[somenewnoob]

Make a little crypt......hell you can even use a dungeon already created........make it a quest instance with respawning monsters that a group can go in.

Easy.

One thing I absolutely hated about other MMO's is having to compete with people for mobs. I love that DDO is instanced.....except for the events.

[Dawnsfire]

I don't understand why the instances don't automatically sort people by level using the same level ranges that you will be sorted into inside the summoning chamber.

It shouldn't be too hard to limit the instance list to only those instances that are initialized by existing players in a specific level range.

I prefer this fix. If they can not make that work then double the drop rate for the draughts of midnight. I am getting a little sick of having to switch instances looking for one I can farm peacefully in.

[cforce]

I'm still scratching my head about why people are grouping up and camping for this one, anyway. As last year, I get a higher rate of return running around with my level 20 *melee*, moving from spot to spot, then I do with an AoE caster in a full group. (And I get a *way* higher rate of return on the move with the same caster.)

Moving from spawn point to spawn point gets more spawns/hour than camping -- so why aren't more people forming small, solo, roving bands? (Aside from the guys who just want to pike in a big group, of course!)

(And yes, soloing and tagging a camped groups spawns gives way more than *any* of the above -- and is cheap 'n' cheesy ;) )

[Dawnsfire]

I'm still scratching my head about why people are grouping up and camping for this one, anyway. As last year, I get a higher rate of return running around with my level 20 *melee*, moving from spot to spot, then I do with an AoE caster in a full group. (And I get a *way* higher rate of return on the move with the same caster.)

Moving from spawn point to spawn point gets more spawns/hour than camping -- so why aren't more people forming small, solo, roving bands? (Aside from the guys who just want to pike in a big group, of course!)

(And yes, soloing and tagging a camped groups spawns gives way more than *any* of the above -- and is cheap 'n' cheesy ;) )

I can't speak for anyone else but I camp corners in the graveyard because I am sick of people running by, spawning low level stuff and wasting my time killing it. When I move from spawn to spawn I seem to get a lot more low level stuff than anything useful. It is a huge waste of time for me. I find it a lot less stressful to shift from instance to instance to find one where a corner is clear.

In short, I am way passed sick of neg levels.

[Chaos000]

what about level range instances?

[leadhead]

Like last time - the constant need for high level players to basically run away from low level players because;

a) the level of monsters is keyed to the lowest level near, and

b) players can do nothing to stop someone from basically wasting their time - which is the definition of griefing.

So - easy fix.

Make monsters spawn by the highest level players in the area - or at least the average level of the mass - not the single lowbie being a jerk. (sometimes unknowingly - but a jerk nonetheless because almost not a single person leaves when you ask nicely)

They want to camp a group of level 20s with their level 8-12 useless character? Fine they wont be able to kill anything and will die in seconds.

Otherwise the griefing continues once again.



I dont think it works that way... I being the lowbie got tatooed for 114 points of negative damage followed by death by electric chair from an arcane caster simply because a higher level guy was passing through a nice quiet spot I picked out for myself in the back corner of the graveyard.

[LordMond63]

what about level range instances?

While they can obviously do this in the regular wilderness zones, I'm not sure that they could for short-term events like Mabar, no matter how much such a fix would make sense.

Everquest was like this. Whoever first tagged the mob got the xp no matter who ended up killing it. Of course, the mob tended to stay aggroed on whoever first tagged it so you had to live long enough to collect the xp.....

[JOTMON]

With all the instances they have, they really should have them by level..
and make it so you cannot go into an instance more than 3 levels different then your character level.

It is annoying to the high level player as much as it is to the low level one when you are both prowling an area to kill undeads and are both penalized in some way.

[redspecter23]

Try a little diplomacy on the mobs. Last time if I remember correctly the DC check on the random high level mobs was actually quite low. If the lowbie has to tackle enough high level mobs solo and wins, by all means, let him stay as he's earning his keep, but my gut says he will die and it will only take so many deaths like that before he moves on... or reports you. I guess that's the risk you take.

[rocky0]

Very rarely will I be with a group. It gets boring for me when a big group of monsters appear and then someone nukes them all in one spell and I barely get a chance to hit anything. I use my monk for Mabar's and I have a pattern that I run. It always seems to work well for me. I try to help those I see having a tough with monsters and if I steal a kill and get something for it, I try to give the item away.

I dont like taking someone elses kill just because I hit a monster once as i run by. Anyway, I enjoy it more with my melee monk than I do being in a group. Of course this means nothing in the greater scheme though :)

[Daine]

As a programming solution, how about running a counter on above level kills, say 5 levels above. When it hits around 100 in an instance have all the mobs in an instance use AoE for the next minute. High level only groups should be able to handle this, low level groups fighting level appropriate mobs should be able to handle this but wrong levelled leechers will cop it, that and it might just break up the grind every now and then.

[roguebaby]

Like last time - the constant need for high level players to basically run away from low level players because;

a) the level of monsters is keyed to the lowest level near, and


--------

They want to camp a group of level 20s with their level 8-12 useless character? Fine they wont be able to kill anything and will die in seconds.

Otherwise the griefing continues once again.


First off, the monsters were not spawned according to lowest level. I believe it was random. I was playing an 8th lvl alt with the BF and when a higher lvl would run by, suddenly mummies. The only good thing was that if they didn't agro them for whatever reason, they would despawn pretty quickly.

Also, how are 8-12 useless? Once you were 8-12 yourself... and if you ever alt, you will be again. What makes you so much better and more important just because you are 20 lvl?
And for the record, I have been playing for over 3 yrs, I just like alts, and lots of them.... so probably have more experience than some of the "useful" lvl 20s who just jetted through the game in a few weeks

I certainly had trouble with being in an area for several hrs and suddenly a high level group would show up and just take over. Lots of people were not having any courtesy at all. Low AND high.
It is a poorly designed event all in all

[Plantman81]

BTW, if someone is griefing you, a greater dispel magic or similar spell can debuff them. You can use this if the person doesn't get the message the polite way. Just don't use this to be a jerk.

[LrdSlvrhnd]

I know that the "lowest available" doesn't work like that in the Cove... I'd go out to a secluded spot with my L14 monk, running around all by myself, and an L4 would come running through... and I'd still get plenty of hobbies and bugbears among the kobolds.

Alternatively, I'd go out to a secluded spot with my L14 monk, running around all by myself... and then an L20 would come racing through, kill all my bugbears, and leave a dozen minotaurs in his wake.

I've seen zero evidence to suggest that Mabar is any different (last year, with my L6-7 or so ranger, I was getting slaughtered by the big boys until I finally gave in and joined a group...)

[Jendrak]

Try a little diplomacy on the mobs. Last time if I remember correctly the DC check on the random high level mobs was actually quite low. If the lowbie has to tackle enough high level mobs solo and wins, by all means, let him stay as he's earning his keep, but my gut says he will die and it will only take so many deaths like that before he moves on... or reports you. I guess that's the risk you take.


BTW, if someone is griefing you, a greater dispel magic or similar spell can debuff them. You can use this if the person doesn't get the message the polite way. Just don't use this to be a jerk.

I find that a combination of the two is the best way to deal with the really special guys who dont understand the concept of a warning and politly asking. Nothing more satasfying that to watch that lowbie whos been messing your spawns up and refuses to leave getting smeared all over the graveyard by a pack of lvl 20 spawns :D

[samthedagger]

This whole problem would be solved if they would just find a way to sort entries to the graveyard by level. They can do it for the dragon. Why the heck can't the do it for Delara's? Just because its a public instance?