eVoN6 is easy !

[Arshan]

Just a whiny thread, about how I’m tired of failing eVON6… on bases. That’s prolly the easiest raid of the game, and many people pug it. GREAT =D . If people pug it, we can assume the leader knows the basics (I don’t even say KNOW THE RAID, just the basics). All the will follow is related to the bard fascinating tactic, that almost everyone use (to not say everyone) on Sarlona. Few people would say : “but that’s not the only way to do it nananananana…” I know you can do it otherwise, but I’m speaking of pugs that can’t afford otherwise.
Let’s get back to the leaders. Once at the end of VoN 5, jobs repartition…

I have already ONE thing to say here…. Something obvious, but sooo annoying… YOU DON’T NEED A WARFORGED DPS ON EACH BASE ! ! ! I see many many people putting warforged whatever his class his to duo a base with a caster… YES BECAUSE HE CAN REPAIR ! omg… you don’t need repair if you know your job. Is it THAT hard to hide behind some rock and wait for a signal ? I also see some people putting healer + fleshie dps BECAUSE FLESHIES NEED HEAL… don’t you get that the reason why we usually put casters on base is that they can ddoor ? Base 1 can be run, but running from base 2 is sucky. Can be done of course I don’t say it’s THE way to do, but just the one clueless people should apply.
This can work in many many way, but PLEASE, don’t cry cause they is no warforged melee to fit to base 1. Just put anyone that can damage the pillar/kill djinni… any decent caster can solo a base to be honest (and even bad ones if they had a clue)

Another point now… the run through bases itself. Ok I see very often “give space to the bard”… well I would say to the runner and the bard but it’s ok… then WHY ON HEART is the first guy running on base the one who just said that ? Giving space isn’t only while running on bridges you know. If you enter on a base with the runner/puller, or in a more general way, before the bard fascinated the base, what happens is :

- You take aggro of mobs

- The puller can’t do his job

- The mobs aren’t gathered

- The bard can’t get all of them with one fascinate

- Mobs are randomly fascinated OR NOT and people hit the djinni + glancing blows or other goodies are unfascinating mobs (or just spreading them even more)

- Base is not done, bard has left because he doesn’t know what his job is about

- People start base 2 with a half dead party while people who actually KNOW the raid are still on base 1 trying to save it (or are dead for various reason).

- People blame the bard (even when he is good), people on bases, the guy who UNFASCINATED THE MOBS OMG… but don’t realize that everyone was messing it up

OK that was the WORST case possible (and still I’m not sure of that), but admit that you’ve seen it in soooo many eVON6 pugs.
I dare saying all that cause I’ve been playing this raid on all the possible spots (solo baser, runner, bard, ****** dps, kiter…) and I’m always facepalming when I see awful leading that I try to save with some /tell that often get the “shut up I know my job” answer.
So if you don’t know that raid… please don’t lead it ! Don’t accuse other people to make it fail while you are the first one jumping on bases before bard is done and messing up the fascination.

It’s NOT A RACE. You have plenty of time to do it smoothly, properly, you don’t need to run on other base as soon as one is done, you can well check, someone can say GO BASE 2 with voice or w/e… So many simple way to make it smooth.
Last but no least. Don’t call KILL KILL KILL from base 3 when your djinni is almost dead. Call it at 50% or so. Other people are only 2 to kill a djinni + a base, while you are just destroying the poor djinni with 8 people. Just synchronize. It won’t make it fail, just makes it look good.


To put it in a nutshell, here is a little *guide* to make your epic VON6 smoother, even if you have never led it before.

- Make sure your bard is not just a 1 base – 1 fascinate machine… it happens, it’s annoying to see the bard away when a base isn’t safe

- Make sure NO ONE will run on a base before it is fascinated. Make the bard call it or whatever. You have TIME to do it, I repeat, it’s NOT a RACE. This is really the key point. Don’t run on base before bard is done. Please please please =)
(an advice for bards : load your fascinate before you are on the base so that it will apply just when you are among the mobs, not start it when you are near them. Obvious but I see so many bards waiting forever to fascinate. In addition it makes the ****** dps behind you less willing to jump on the base too quick. If party is bad, quick fascinate = base ready quicker = afford dps to come in quicker even too early if they are too ******** :p)

- Have someone to call when the base is ready to be left behind so that the bard and the runner can go ahead at the good time. “SAFE BASE” on mic makes it or whatever.

- Call the KILL at the good moment, usually it’s 50% as I said, but if you know the basers are really good and will be ready, just call It at 30%... but please, stop calling it at 2,496% TY :D

This is just a point of view about the way many people intend to run epic VON6 and fail it.
I repeat : THIS IS NOT THE ONLY WAY TO DO IT, but hopefully this will help some people to find out why their eVON6 are always failing.
Some will say “I have more completions than fails, it’s always other people fault”… just check where you are running. Sometimes bard is good and stay on the base, sometimes it’s just about luck, sometimes party is just awesome

I dont bring the solution to all the runs, just a way to avoid stupid fails. Call it a *smooth run* advices if you want, assuming everyone is respecting what I wrote previously. It's Leader’s job now to share it if he realizes he was doing it wrong. Cause 90% of the time, if eVON6 fail and you have the star, you’re doing it wrong. (I’m not speaking of the first timer that didn’t get what you say... this happens.).
As a matter of fact, you always have some names you like to see leading eVON6 because you know it's a completion. These aren't uber players, just people that UNDERSTAND the raid, thus, know what to avoid and what to do.

Feel free to throw me rocks if that post is useless I’m just fed up with failing pugs that are failing in the way I predict it to the leader that didn’t want to listen to me with /tells.

[danotmano1998]

What is this "Bard" thing you speak of?
Ran plenty of those, none of which ever had a bard.

[cdemeritt]

Even more hilarious is how many PuG's fail HoX... 3 competent people (a healer, tank, and bard) can carry everyone else, and you don't even need that many... yet... 50% of PuG Hox fail...

[Arshan]

What is this "Bard" thing you speak of?
Ran plenty of those, none of which ever had a bard.


All the will follow is related to the bard fascinating tactic, that almost everyone use (to not say everyone). Few people would say : “but that’s not the only way to do it nananananana…” I know you can do it otherwise, but I’m speaking of pugs that can’t afford otherwise.

Forgot to say on Sarlona. But i post on Sarlona forum. Will add it though May be humor too, in that case => laugh

[Pallol_One-Eye]

Forgot to say on Sarlona. But i post on Sarlona forum. Will add it though May be humor too, in that case => laugh

Sorlona has no PUGs anymore, just random chances of failure guised under a generic LFM.

[Chai]

I think its hilarious that people will type up these huge guides after the fact but in my experience theres a lack of communication during. Ive seen alot of raids run nowdays where everyone just mutually expects everyone else to know what to do and assumes that all of the steps will be followed on their 58th run that were followed on their 1-57th run. The issue is its not everyones 58th run, heh. VoN 6, while not complicated to people who have run it a kazillion times, is one of those raids where one person screwing up can cost the party the completion, and this happening after VoN 5 had to be run just to get in the door is what makes it infuriating.

[Pallol_One-Eye]

I think its hilarious that people will type up these huge guides after the fact but in my experience theres a lack of communication during. Ive seen alot of raids run nowdays where everyone just mutually expects everyone else to know what to do and assumes that all of the steps will be followed on their 58th run that were followed on their 1-57th run. The issue is its not everyones 58th run, heh. VoN 6, while not complicated to people who have run it a kazillion times, is one of those raids where one person screwing up can cost the party the completion, and this happening after VoN 5 had to be run just to get in the door is what makes it infuriating.

DOn't forget to add the topping onto that "tasty sammich". This is after VON 5 was run by basically 3 people while everyone else got ship buffs or chilled at the entrance waiting.

[AMDarkwolf]

heh for sarlona it appears that 'DON'T do' means 'MAKE SURE you do'


I'm not sure how else to explain it.


Don't matter the raid, the quest, whatever, it WILL happen, if u say 'DON'T' do something, no matter HOW often u stress it, on voice AND in chat, someone will DEFIANTLY do it.

THIS is why pugs are an issue nowdays, if u cant be sure everyone in the group knows whats to be done and how to do it (IE you have to explain anything) things WILL go wrong.

HoX is the obvious example of this, as a test, take 11 random ppl into the raid, explain EXACTLY how u want it done, which ppl to do what, and its almost 99% guaranteed that 'someone' will do exactly what u asked them NOT to do simply because 'they know better'(Its the only thing I can think of why ppl do this ****.)


DOn't forget to add the topping onto that "tasty sammich". This is after VON 5 was run by basically 3 people while everyone else got ship buffs or chilled at the entrance waiting.

And this is why, even when preping for evon6, I refuse to allow people to 'pike' more than once. If I notice someone piking at the entrance when I'm doing a von5 before a evon 6, that person gets the 'decline' when I run evon6 again 3 days later.

[Arshan]

Even more hilarious is how many PuG's fail HoX... 3 competent people (a healer, tank, and bard) can carry everyone else, and you don't even need that many... yet... 50% of PuG Hox fail...

You dont need a bard for HoX. 80% of the people don't even know what bard is here for. Actually he is just on stone duty to be directly related to dogs and able to buff them. But you don't need to buff dogs to complete. Just make it smoother.
Bard is nice not needed i would say. Kinda like in VoN 6 but on Sarlona i dont know many people running it otherwise than with a bard. Same for HoX ^^

[Bodic]

Even more hilarious is how many PuG's fail HoX... 3 competent people (a healer, tank, and bard) can carry everyone else, and you don't even need that many... yet... 50% of PuG Hox fail...


All you need for HoX is a Self healing tank, 10 pikers, and 1 person to drag for stones/puppies it doesn't have to be a BARD.

[DragonMageT]

Even more hilarious is how many PuG's fail HoX... 3 competent people (a healer, tank, and bard) can carry everyone else, and you don't even need that many... yet... 50% of PuG Hox fail...

Well that's completely false. I can assure you that it takes more than 3 competent players.

It only takes 1 incompetent player to screw things up and wipe the raid.

Like the noob that kills the dogs and then 1 or more stones magically disappear.

Been on more than a few runs where 1 or both of those things happened.


Evon6 can be the same, one incompetent player taking the Djinn down before it's time, people
not standing behind rock, etc...

[Arshan]

DOn't forget to add the topping onto that "tasty sammich". This is after VON 5 was run by basically 3 people while everyone else got ship buffs or chilled at the entrance waiting.

I forgot that one... 11 people are waiting for 12th totally random pug on top of VoN5.
(Party) : XXX has joined your party
(Party) : XXX says : Shipbuffs and omw

Don't forget the SONIC RESISTANCE ! ! !

[Arshan]

I think its hilarious that people will type up these huge guides after the fact but in my experience theres a lack of communication during. Ive seen alot of raids run nowdays where everyone just mutually expects everyone else to know what to do and assumes that all of the steps will be followed on their 58th run that were followed on their 1-57th run. The issue is its not everyones 58th run, heh. VoN 6, while not complicated to people who have run it a kazillion times, is one of those raids where one person screwing up can cost the party the completion, and this happening after VoN 5 had to be run just to get in the door is what makes it infuriating.

You said it... Actually that's because it looks easy with some people that pugs thinks it's EASY to lead. The thread is about pointing out the little "stuff" to avoid... and maybe save one or two runs... Too much hope doesnt hurt does it ?

[Bakarne]

My biggest beef with eVoN6 is that the divine held in reserve to heal second should trust the lead healer and NOT burn through 2/3 of their spell points on "emergency" mass cures before Velah is at half health.

Also, good news everyone! LitIIs work on the dragon :) - not so helpful on the Djinns though.

[Chai]

heh for sarlona it appears that 'DON'T do' means 'MAKE SURE you do'


I'm not sure how else to explain it.


Don't matter the raid, the quest, whatever, it WILL happen, if u say 'DON'T' do something, no matter HOW often u stress it, on voice AND in chat, someone will DEFIANTLY do it.

THIS is why pugs are an issue nowdays, if u cant be sure everyone in the group knows whats to be done and how to do it (IE you have to explain anything) things WILL go wrong.

HoX is the obvious example of this, as a test, take 11 random ppl into the raid, explain EXACTLY how u want it done, which ppl to do what, and its almost 99% guaranteed that 'someone' will do exactly what u asked them NOT to do simply because 'they know better'(Its the only thing I can think of why ppl do this ****.)

There used to be a player who ran Shrouds twice a week who would invite people and say hello <name> whats the password? (Password was listed in the LFM along with "have voice") - after asking three or four times with no response..../boot.

On one hand, the sphincter factor of having to create groups using this tactic is about a 9.5, but on the other hand, it gets people who are willing and able to communicate into the group. In other threads ive harped alot on teaching newbies how to run these raids, and part of that is making sure they are listening and willing to respond to directions.

[danotmano1998]

You dont need a bard for HoX. 80% of the people don't even know what bard is here for. Actually he is just on stone duty to be directly related to dogs and able to buff them. But you don't need to buff dogs to complete. Just make it smoother.
Bard is nice not needed i would say. Kinda like in VoN 6 but on Sarlona i dont know many people running it otherwise than with a bard. Same for HoX ^^

Thank you! I wanted to mention this as well.
Clerics and mages can do this duty as well. I have run the stones and buffed the pups just fine on my sorc. Stoneskin, blur, gh, maybe a displace? pfft. Done deal. Maybe even a scroll or two for fun..
Ever see the pups fight with the waterbreathing bubble on? Hehehe..

Granted, Sarlona isn't Thelanis, but everything else is just the same.

[krackythehoodedone]

Firstly E Von 6 isnt easy. Even good groups fail fairly regularly.

You need a competant Leader and strong players in a fair few key areas.

They need knowledge, a high level of skill in terms of Dc's etc, and teamwork and co-operation needs to be good.

The reason for the high number of fails is rather than just the whole party trying one difficult challenge at a time ie The Shadows in Tod (which is where the majority of fails have occured i would suggest). You have a situation where you are attemting three tricky situations at once and the party is divided. Just one small slip anywhere at multiple points and it goes pear shaped with frightening speed.

Just a simple case of far more potential to Fubar. Similar in principal to the three puzzles in Abbot.

In both these two examples (Abbot & E Von 6) you also have a dramatically increased chance of one person being able to screw the whole thing up with utmost ease. We had the Barb with the big axe forget to turn auto attack off last time. Un fascinated the mobs and killed the Djinni..

So get yourself a decent group with solid players in the key areas, make sure the rest have a good idea of what is going on and what is expected of them and you should succeed more times than you fail.

Even with the tougher end fight i have never been in a party ''fail'' post U11, once we have gotten to Velah. So the bases remain the key

[Arshan]

Firstly E Von 6 isnt easy. Even good groups fail fairly regularly.

You need a competant Leader and strong players in a fair few key areas.



I kinda disagree. Good group doesnt mean only GOOD players. People need to know what to do and not mess it up. If people listen to me i can complete the base with a total bunch of newbs first timers (just need people to know where to hide on bases, and the runner to be a wee competent, so total first timer not possible but well). There arent *key* spot if it's well done. Key spots are needed if things get bad = deficient knowledge of the raid.

I'm totally convinced it has nothing to do with the abiltiy of players... this is just a *know what do do or die* raid imo. Of course some people can save it, but it's not the way it should go

[cdemeritt]

You dont need a bard for HoX. 80% of the people don't even know what bard is here for. Actually he is just on stone duty to be directly related to dogs and able to buff them. But you don't need to buff dogs to complete. Just make it smoother.
Bard is nice not needed i would say. Kinda like in VoN 6 but on Sarlona i dont know many people running it otherwise than with a bard. Same for HoX ^^


All you need for HoX is a Self healing tank, 10 pikers, and 1 person to drag for stones/puppies it doesn't have to be a BARD.


Umm... in case you missed it, I'll quote myself and highlight the part that should have been stressed...



Even more hilarious is how many PuG's fail HoX... 3 competent people (a healer, tank, and bard) can carry everyone else, and you don't even need that many ... yet... 50% of PuG Hox fail...

The part in yellow implied that you don't "need" a bard or a tank... A Self Healing caster +1 to run stones can do this raid... it is usually the 10 others that fail it... But if you have a Healer/Bard/Tank that knows what they are doing, and you can keep the "others" out of the way, it goes very smooth...

Get a bard that doesn't know how to charm the dogs, and you fail out the gate... (seen it... Bard said ok to charming the dogs, and tried to use mass charm...repeatedly)

[Indoran]

I think its hilarious that people will type up these huge guides after the fact but in my experience theres a lack of communication during. Ive seen alot of raids run nowdays where everyone just mutually expects everyone else to know what to do and assumes that all of the steps will be followed on their 58th run that were followed on their 1-57th run. The issue is its not everyones 58th run, heh. VoN 6, while not complicated to people who have run it a kazillion times, is one of those raids where one person screwing up can cost the party the completion, and this happening after VoN 5 had to be run just to get in the door is what makes it infuriating.

In Khyber we just ask: someone new? the thing is most noobs don't want to say they are new and they think they won't screw the run...

... and don't ever take a bard that's scared to do the job... he will fail... if you have to convince him he can do the job... he can't!

[Xoltaz]

and the runner to be a wee competent, so total first timer not possible but well

Are you sure about this? I just remember a monk being forced to be the runner although it was his first time in eVon6 :p But well this was quite a few months ago... guess times changed

[destiny4405]

Are you sure about this? I just remember a monk being forced to be the runner although it was his first time in eVon6 :p But well this was quite a few months ago... guess times changed

same for a rogue that i know :) you can't run it for 2nd and 3rd time if you haven't run it for the first time eh? :)

Tar, nice guide, but to quote someone from a thread 'ways to make hp higher':

'this is a great thread, but players with 200 hp toons, don't usually come to the forums'.

[GrampaBill]

I've come to the opinion that a smooth eV6 base run really depends upon the runner -- maybe because I'm usually there as the bard. It's all in the placement of the mobs, some runners put them too close to the Djinni and some of them pull them real close to the base exit. Obviously, when they're close to the exit, the chance for a loss of control is reduced immensely. If I lose control of one or more, I just Otto's the ones that slipped out and then fascinate again.

Also, I use the term fascinate when in reality it's enthrallment. I've seen mobs take up to 5 hits before they break from enthrallment. So, that's what I use all the time, regardless of the raid or quest -- the only exception is when the enthrall is having a hard time hitting, then I'll switch to fascinate for a higher DC, but enthrall is probably a 99% solution.

While the part about starting the song earlier is good advice, I tend to start the song later than I need to because I don't want to get to the situation where it is started too soon. The cool down before a second song can be attempted can be quite painful.

[paraplegic]

heh for sarlona it appears that 'DON'T do' means 'MAKE SURE you do'


I'm not sure how else to explain it.


Don't matter the raid, the quest, whatever, it WILL happen, if u say 'DON'T' do something, no matter HOW often u stress it, on voice AND in chat, someone will DEFIANTLY do it.

THIS is why pugs are an issue nowdays, if u cant be sure everyone in the group knows whats to be done and how to do it (IE you have to explain anything) things WILL go wrong.

HoX is the obvious example of this, as a test, take 11 random ppl into the raid, explain EXACTLY how u want it done, which ppl to do what, and its almost 99% guaranteed that 'someone' will do exactly what u asked them NOT to do simply because 'they know better'(Its the only thing I can think of why ppl do this ****.)



And this is why, even when preping for evon6, I refuse to allow people to 'pike' more than once. If I notice someone piking at the entrance when I'm doing a von5 before a evon 6, that person gets the 'decline' when I run evon6 again 3 days later.


hahahah on sarlona is really funny. one time in HOX the lead was explaining. please dont move after we enter, and then he asked (AND I WAS TYPING to make sure every1 got it) everyone got it?. they all said yes.

one second later a guy move, and start running.