Report on SWTOR -- not what ya think

[Malidane]

Report on SWTOR –

I have had the luck of being invited to the beta for this new and upcoming game that many may be thinking of migrating to. After putting this game under the microscope for a few days and really getting into it, I have a way to describe it – WOW with a Star Wars Theme. I have been able to get 2 toons to level 17 and there is no control over how your character develops and everything is based on gear.

I personally love DDO for the variety of ways you can totally customize a class(not to mention multi-classing and True Reincarnating) .. From the current fundamentals of SWTOR non of that is possible and will never be(No Enhancement/Feat like pools to choose from to separate your self from the rest). All might as well be clones. I know it’s Beta but fundamentals will not change and the release date is too close for changes.

It became boring and tedious after about one day of play – There are FLASH points in which a little movie like scenario is shown to address each situation, but how many times can you watch the same move over and over. If you wish to go and play WOW again – GOOD LUCK..

Much as I like Star Wars – I’m very disappointed they applied the kiddie/dumb version of MMO development to this..

My marks: 1-10

Graphics:7
Voice Acting: 8
Game Play: 5
Character development (for real players):2




…. If any of you have tried the beta … please comment


Long Live DDO … Just keep the updates coming and I better not see + 4 Tomes in the God forsaken DDO Store DEVS..

[Esserbe]

Surely no-one is surprised? Bioware's attempts at making RPG rulesets of their own have all fallen extremely flat, to expect them to make something inspired for a MMO is to expect far too much from such a mediocre developer.

It's World of Star Wars, nothing else.

[Pfold]

Just curious about a couple of things...


The lag, what is it like? I believe they have been doing stress tests on the servers. What's been your average ping?

The combat, is it twitch? What is it like?

How much content does there appear to be?

[Memnir]

No, that is exactly what I thought OR would be. ;)

[Symar-FangofLloth]

no, That Is exactly What I Thought Or Would Be. ;)

Qft

[learst]

Thanks for the review. Though I've to point out that this probably belongs in the Off-topic Chat section.

[Tocawe]

not what ya think

Wrong, it sounds almost exactly like what I thought :p.

But no character customization AT ALL? I thought they would give you at least some customization, something like the perk points or whatever they were called in WOW.

I guess the classes in the game are the standard 3 classes (Tank, DPS, Healer) with just a few different flavors?

[Auran82]

Wait, there's something in DDO other than casters and favored souls?

Since when?

:D

[Afyndax]

You hit on one thing.. the cutscenes... but really didn´t mention the other big drag on the game.. travel times.

Honestly, the gameplay is just too slow and disjointed. You spend so much time watching movies, listening to long, drawn out quest givers (voice acting).. and then just traveling...

I actually played WOW until recently and enjoyed it for the most part (besides the endgame grind).. but I think even WOW players won´t like SWTOR just because of the pacing... WOW players are very used to getting to the action quick.

Many players will not like it because it is on rails (ala wow), but even more will like it because those rails are very slow.

[knightgf]

All that hype for nothing eh?

You'd be better off taking that money you'd spend on World of The Old Republic and using it to buy Mass Effect 3 when it is released. I would. Not a MMORPG of course, but still, a better space-theme game.

[Delt]

I don't see how SWTOR is ***anything*** like WoW. I mean...at all. If you want to have one legitimate slam on the game, it's that there is zero end game.

[Grenada]

That's at least a sign that not everyone is moving to SWTOR.

The only drop off in people is gonna happen in November now, AFAIK. (November 11, to be exact). And that will only last a few months.

[Krago]

I got to try it as well and it did seem a little flat in terms of character development, but DDO started out the same way as well.

It was enjoyable, but not enough to keep me from the Cove.

[Uska]

Just curious about a couple of things...


The lag, what is it like? I believe they have been doing stress tests on the servers. What's been your average ping?

The combat, is it twitch? What is it like?

How much content does there appear to be?

Combat is wow styled not ddo so no it isn't twitch

[Uska]

No, that is exactly what I thought OR would be. ;)

Ditto I gave up on it a long time ago

[smatt]

Pretty much what I've heard from a couple in Beta..... Pretty mcuh what I expected.. It will be big because of the money and name behind it.. Then it will drop off....

DDO is it's own worst enemy.... Poor Producer leadership.... Adding so so content yet living with a game that overall is running like a 50 year old Ford Pinto...

[Vanquishedfo]

I do agree that SWTOR is wow with glowsticks. very sad waste of what should of been the next D20 MMO had they had the sense to use the same rules they had in KOTOR.

On the long live DDO note, you are net yet aware of the bigger picture and the near certainty DDO is done in 2014 i guess. Simply put thats the year Turbines lease on the D&D rights come up, WOTC is very unlikely to renew them as they are putting thier support behind the new 4E D&D mmo coming out by cryptic studios under the umbrella of Perfect World. Called Never Winter Nights Online its just simple logic with WOTC's history to expect them to deny turbine renewel and kill off DDO so NWNO wont have to compete with its older cousin.

This is why last year I put 400 into DDO in support and this year I wont spend a dime as the future has gone from hopeful to a near certain date of experation.

[Ruphus]

I do agree that SWTOR is wow with glowsticks. very sad waste of what should of been the next D20 MMO had they had the sense to use the same rules they had in KOTOR.

On the long live DDO note, you are net yet aware of the bigger picture and the near certainty DDO is done in 2014 i guess. Simply put thats the year Turbines lease on the D&D rights come up, WOTC is very unlikely to renew them as they are putting thier support behind the new 4E D&D mmo coming out by cryptic studios under the umbrella of Perfect World. Called Never Winter Nights Online its just simple logic with WOTC's history to expect them to deny turbine renewel and kill off DDO so NWNO wont have to compete with its older cousin.

This is why last year I put 400 into DDO in support and this year I wont spend a dime as the future has gone from hopeful to a near certain date of experation.

I would have to disagree, WOTC is a business, and if they can continue to milk a little more $$ out of old rules systems, by gosh they will. Will they openly support it and advertise and so forth? Probably not, but they will not turn down a nice, basically free, paycheck from something they do not have to put any real work into.

[broolthebeast]

as a fellow beta tester of TOR currently, and I've been playing for over a week now. Im absolutely in love with the game, and cant wait for launch. The comparison to wow, I do have to disagree with, but everyone's allowed their opinions. That being said we are still in a beta, and you might be in a different beta build than me for all I know, we are not getting the full version of TOR.

Im not going to say much, other than the combat is active and engaging. You are never in a 1v1 fight. The content is expansive and I've not ran a single quest more than 1 time in my current level up process. The story line is engaging, and yes I said story line when describing an mmo.

Do I think some things could be changed? yes
Have I voiced those opinions? yes, as have others.

Bioware has a history of making great games, and I expect TOR to be another hit in a long line of them. Who will be getting my money come 12/20/11? Bioware.

[Musouka]

I will say that it is a game. It's not for everyone. People used to the customization of characters here are probably going to have to invest more time into a different game to actually adapt to it. A few days just wont cut it, but it will give you a slice of what you are getting.

It's not WoW. It is TOR. There are similarities in every single game. Look at FPS games, how much different do those really get? Yet do you see people saying, OH it's just a MW Clone or Oh it's a Halo Clone?

Sure, it's not going to fit the style of play some people like, but that doesn't mean it is a fail of a game. The only way we'll ever tell if it is a good game is when the game launches and we see how their community grows and actually see how the game develops post launch. Only time will tell.

Also, this does belong in the off topic section.

I will also add. The current state of DDO and the amount of bugs that keep going unfixed, and the amount of lag that seems to get worse with each and every update, it will make it so easy to just leave it behind when TOR does come out.

[Ruphus]

While I am not a beta tester, I have been following TOR very closing for the last couple years as I am very excited to play it. This is what I have gathered from all my researching.

Characters - There will be "paths" so to speak, similar to WoW's talent trees, but not exact, and I doubt there will be much difference in one Sith Lord and another.

Combat will be like standard MMO's, not quite like DDO, less twitch, and more hotkey/rotation style play.

End Game will include some raids early, expect for this part to be like WoW/Everquest, starts out small, but each expansion will most likely add levels and mostly all high end content.

There will be lots of crafting, and I do mean lots. You will be able to make a lot of the gear you will use at any point in the game.

The leveling up process will be close to Knights of the Old Republic, with cutscenes, a story arc that lasts most of the way up. There will be dungeons and such as well, which are more optional than anything.

PvP will be a big deal, and include War Zones, ala Battlegrounds from WoW.

Thats all I can remember at the moment, but I am excited about it and will be there to try it out probably at launch or shortly after.

Does this mean I am leaving DDO? Heck no, I don't think one will replace the other.

I am thinking TOR will be more RPG and PVP like, where DDO is more custimzation and better raiding/grouping and so forth.

I will say there are going to be some similarities with WoW, of course, Bio - Ware isn't dumb, and WoW does have a HUGE playerbase. But Bioware does have some quality games.

[KajaGrae]

Star Wars already had it's best MMO by far. SW:Galaxies.

How did that game die? They changed it from a complex game that allowed you to tune your character to thousands of different combinations, to 9 Classes of SWG:WoW.

All the people I used to play with on SWG will probably port over to that game, feel the WoWines of it all, and bail.

Man that game was awesome back in the day. Best SW space fun ever.

I'm glad SOE is feeling the sting of that change and having to shut it down. The CU and NGE were the stupidest things a company has ever done to a a product. You changed the entire core mechanic. Every buiness knows that that's a terrible move.

I'm surprised Smedley wasn't terminated for that fiasco.

Don't get me wrong, I like Bioware, and I am sure the game will have pros in it's storyline delivery, cause that's what Bioware delivers. But it will never be as complex and awesome as SWG.

[Morgueman]

lmao I'm so sorry you didn't stick around to some of the better parts of the game. I beta tested it for about 2 months and a WoW clone it is NOT. ( Ex WoW player for 5+ years)
Yes there is alot of customization in the game from crafting to paths and picking your side (light Dark and supposed grey).

The combat is very mmorpg'ish (not as action packed as ddo to be sure) The cut scenes are varied in the fact of what path you decide to go with (options made during character leveling) Huge and i do mean HUGE worlds to explore and plans to introduce even more as the game grows. Yes there is little end game for now at least. But there is still alot of things to do so it will be awhile before you get really bored. ( and even as we speak BW and LA are making new end game raids and pvp areas and worlds to explore) This is a new step for BW and LA a first for both to really step into the MMO market ( SWG was good til sony aquired it and ran it into the ground).

Some will love it some will hate it but I say try it yourself before you say for certain if you love//hate it. And please to be fair lvl 17 is VERY low level in that game alot of really good action doesn't start until the mid 20's (1-20 is sort of the intro to the game and a how-to for most of it). The first flash point isn't until 25 (IIRC).

Is it a WoW killer? Nope Blizzy did that all on their own already. But I do think it will be a good game none the less.

As for some of the travel time wait until you get your mounts and your own starship before you really go into that. Both of which are very fun and very good ideas imo.

[DnD3]

Actually heard that SWG was great but when it first came out but ended badly due to some changes. As for SWTOR, lots of people are going to try it out, it looks great but I hate star wars, that being said I'll give it a try just in case I actually like it, to be honest DDO is starting to feel a lot more like some ofther Korean MMO's when it comes to end game changes, little challenge but a lot of time and grind involved, I gotta say TR is the best thing this game has going for it right now.

[Musouka]

Actually heard that SWG was great but when it first came out but ended badly due to some changes. As for SWTOR, lots of people are going to try it out, it looks great but I hate star wars, that being said I'll give it a try just in case I actually like it, to be honest DDO is starting to feel a lot more like some ofther Korean MMO's when it comes to end game changes, little challenge but a lot of time and grind involved, I gotta say TR is the best thing this game has going for it right now.

Yep. Sony entertainment eventually made the game horrible, making several classes obsolete, adding Jedis, but making it so if you died being a Jedi, you were dead for good. A lot of game mechanics were added that just contributed to its downfall. Now SWG is closing in December for good.

[fn_Chopper]

WOTC is very unlikely to renew them as they are putting thier support behind the new 4E D&D mmo coming out by cryptic studios under the umbrella of Perfect World

You should e-mail that to WB.

[redoubt]

Star Wars already had it's best MMO by far. SW:Galaxies.

How did that game die? They changed it from a complex game that allowed you to tune your character to thousands of different combinations, to 9 Classes of SWG:WoW.

.

Absolutely correct.

I've actually been hoping the EMU project would get done and I'd just go play that...

I dropped my SWG sub the day NGE released. I did not even go in.

I went back a year or two later on a free trial... played a day... I've not been back and I miss the old game like a first love.

[quijenoth]

Report on SWTOR –

I have had the luck of being invited to the beta for this new and upcoming game that many may be thinking of migrating to. After putting this game under the microscope for a few days and really getting into it, I have a way to describe it – WOW with a Star Wars Theme. I have been able to get 2 toons to level 17 and there is no control over how your character develops and everything is based on gear.

I personally love DDO for the variety of ways you can totally customize a class(not to mention multi-classing and True Reincarnating) .. From the current fundamentals of SWTOR non of that is possible and will never be(No Enhancement/Feat like pools to choose from to separate your self from the rest). All might as well be clones. I know it’s Beta but fundamentals will not change and the release date is too close for changes.

It became boring and tedious after about one day of play – There are FLASH points in which a little movie like scenario is shown to address each situation, but how many times can you watch the same move over and over. If you wish to go and play WOW again – GOOD LUCK..

Much as I like Star Wars – I’m very disappointed they applied the kiddie/dumb version of MMO development to this..

My marks: 1-10

Graphics:7
Voice Acting: 8
Game Play: 5
Character development (for real players):2




…. If any of you have tried the beta … please comment


Long Live DDO … Just keep the updates coming and I better not see + 4 Tomes in the God forsaken DDO Store DEVS..

Just to put this in Perspective a little...

I beta'd DDO for about a week. I thought it sucked then so returned to Everquest. Came back to DDO 4 years later and it had improved to include what I personally thought is lacked in Beta. Content is still light for a 4 year old MMO but the TRing softens that quite a bit.

Point is, the game is vastly different to what I experienced in beta.

I beta'd Everquest 2. I actually enjoyed certain aspects of this one on beta and subscribed immediately on release - I played it for 2 months before the xp grind and after release changes started to affect my enjoyment of the game. I quit and returned to Everquest.

Point is, the game is vastly different to what I experienced in beta.

See a pattern here?




In my experience with MMOs, "content" is far more important than flashy graphics and unique mechanics or balanced gameplay. If I could afford the subs I would probably still play everquest because it has so much content that every day I log in I can do something different.

Your review is mildly informative but you show it in a bad light just because it didnt fit "Your" expectations. Branding it towards WoW just fuels bad rep and invites trolls. It also shows lack of experience in the MMO industry.

[Esserbe]

Bioware has a history of making great games,

Bioware's only truly great game since HOTU is Mass Effect 2, and they accomplished that by virtually ripping out the entire skill system and leaving something that is eclipsed by self-described shooters like Borderlands, and the story is one page long.

[mystafyi]

You should e-mail that to WB.

Time Warner bought turbine for their microtransaction system. They stated this to their shareholders. They did not buy turbine for DDO. If you think TW cares 1 bit about ddo your sadly mistaken. Yes, they like the revenue stream but should that slow in the slightest....

oh ya thats why +3 tomes made it to the store :)

[Razcar]

WOTC is very unlikely to renew them as they are putting thier support behind the new 4E D&D mmo coming out by cryptic studios under the umbrella of Perfect World. Called Never Winter Nights Online its just simple logic with WOTC's history to expect them to deny turbine renewel and kill off DDO so NWNO wont have to compete with its older cousin.WotC wouldn't mind if there was two D&D MMO's, they wouldn't mind if there was 200 D&D MMO's. For them, the more, the better.

Perfect World would of course mind , and Turbine, since those are the ones in competition. But WotC will get license fees and publicity, so what's not to like for them?

[dunklezhan]

I would have to disagree, WOTC is a business, and if they can continue to milk a little more $$ out of old rules systems, by gosh they will. Will they openly support it and advertise and so forth? Probably not, but they will not turn down a nice, basically free, paycheck from something they do not have to put any real work into.

This might be the reason behind a lot of the changes to the underlying 3rd ed ruleset within DDO - perhaps if DDO moves away from recognisable core rules, Turbine are hoping WoTC will be more inclined to let them keep the license because it can be advertised based on pure setting (which still exists under 4e) not an outdated ruleset*.


*outdated, but still way better than 4e for tabletop. However my first play of 4e I thought 'hey this is a video game with cards and dice'. As the night went on, I rapidly concluded that I would definitely play 4e the MMO, because that would work really well, but that I would never, ever again play it as a PnP game because it was teh suxx0r.

[Ivan_Milic]

That's at least a sign that not everyone is moving to SWTOR.

The only drop off in people is gonna happen in November now, AFAIK. (November 11, to be exact). And that will only last a few months.

Exactly.

[Memek]

In my experience with MMOs, "content" is far more important than flashy graphics and unique mechanics or balanced gameplay. If I could afford the subs I would probably still play everquest because it has so much content that every day I log in I can do something different.

Your review is mildly informative but you show it in a bad light just because it didnt fit "Your" expectations. Branding it towards WoW just fuels bad rep and invites trolls. It also shows lack of experience in the MMO industry.
I disagree, i think this is about different tastes in gaming. How much content there is doesnt matter to me at all unless i find the gameplay fun.
A pal forced me to try the WoW trial. I got a quest to slay 10 piglets, for whatever reason. The piglets didnt even attack me. I clicked on a piglet and my character killed it. If i wanted to speed up the process, i could press 1 and 2, but that was purely optional. I played on for a while and it didnt really change much, except that dying became a possibility if i overpulled. I stopped playing because it bored me.
I dont care if there are a thousand huge areas to explore and a billion piglet-slaying-quests, it's boring so im not playing it. Might be that it becomes fun at higher levels but again, not gonna bore myself through 80 levels until it might get fun.

The OP sounds exactly like my reaction to WoW.
If the gameplay is boring, the content doesnt matter, the voice overs dont matter, i wont play it.

Apparantly there is another type of gamer, the archetypical "MMO gamer" who just wants "content" and doesnt care if the gameplay is boring or not... But to call the OP's criticism of the boring gameplay trolling is far fetched, and shows a very narrow focus of what an MMO player should value.

[issiana]

Absolutely correct.

I've actually been hoping the EMU project would get done and I'd just go play that...

I dropped my SWG sub the day NGE released. I did not even go in.

I went back a year or two later on a free trial... played a day... I've not been back and I miss the old game like a first love.

I highlighted the part most apt for me.

Old master Ranger/ master Rifles myself. And yes I still miss that game just like the first love you mentioned.

I have high hopes for TOR, but I know nothing will ever replace the joy of pre cu/nge galaxies. I miss you my love, heh.

[knightal]

well considering its subscription only, its automtically disqualified.

this isn't 5 years ago...f2p is taking over and any new mmo has to have multiple options to get people away from the hundreds they've spent on thier current subscription mmos.

personally i played ffXI for 6 months with my wife until guild wars came out. 2 subscriptions is just not worth the cost, and we haven't touched a subscription mmo in 6 years. neverwinter will be coming out as a f2p model, subscription is just dying out slowly but surely. DDO has a good model going with a quality game, and multiple options....is why i came back to it when i heard it was f2p after dismissing it shortly after release on a 2 week trial. granted we spent over $200, but its alot less than a sub.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

In this day and age of the popularity of point and click, zero-strategy simplicity of Facebook games like Mafia Wars and Farmville, its quite clear theres a huge market for games that dont force you to think.

D&D 4.0 is a very dumbed down D&D, and any old school P&Per knows that.

The MMO market is no different. It will be filled with content that has a near zero learning curve, minimal strategy required, and the ability to pay as you go. And those will be considered features!

And companies will squeeze this nitch until it breathes its final breath.

So no, Im not surprised in the least that SWTOR has no real depth.

[Ugumagre]

In this day and age of the popularity of point and click, zero-strategy simplicity of Facebook games like Mafia Wars and Farmville, its quite clear theres a huge market for games that dont force you to think.

D&D 4.0 is a very dumbed down D&D, and any old school P&Per knows that.

The MMO market is no different. It will be filled with content that has a near zero learning curve, minimal strategy required, and the ability to pay as you go. And those will be considered features!

And companies will squeeze this nitch until it breathes its final breath.

So no, Im not surprised in the least that LOTR has no real depth.

You mean SWTOR, not LOTR?

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

You mean SWTOR, not LOTR?

Jayzus Krismas, yes SWTOR is what I meant! dang dyslexia haha

[Uska]

This might be the reason behind a lot of the changes to the underlying 3rd ed ruleset within DDO - perhaps if DDO moves away from recognisable core rules, Turbine are hoping WoTC will be more inclined to let them keep the license because it can be advertised based on pure setting (which still exists under 4e) not an outdated ruleset*.


*outdated, but still way better than 4e for tabletop. However my first play of 4e I thought 'hey this is a video game with cards and dice'. As the night went on, I rapidly concluded that I would definitely play 4e the MMO, because that would work really well, but that I would never, ever again play it as a PnP game because it was teh suxx0r.

Well 5e is already being worked on

[Roguewiz]

As with any MMO, you're going to encounter some similarities. Not every MMO can be DDO, City of Heroes/Champions, etc.

SWTOR combat isn't DDO, but it isn't WOW either. It is more of a combination of the active combat from CoH/CO with some WOW aspects.

SWTOR has two selling points, or 3 if you want to get technical:
1. It's not WOW
2. It's based upon Star Wars
3. Story driven

While the mindless grind, go kill this, go gather that WILL exist in the game; it's something you have to expect nowadays. The DDO model, while extremely fun, is not for everyone. I know multiple gamers that find DDO to be completely boring. Granted, they're younger people, so they've grown up with only WOW. They haven't done other games beyond that, so to them, WOW is the baseline, and there is nothing else.

I'm planning on getting SWTOR. With that being said, there is nothing stopping me from having both games active. I can play DDO for free, if I so desired.

TLDR Version:

If you're expecting another DDO, then SWTOR isn't for you. If you're expecting something similar to other games on the market, but with a meaningful story; then SWTOR is for you.

[Uska]

I highlighted the part most apt for me.

Old master Ranger/ master Rifles myself. And yes I still miss that game just like the first love you mentioned.

I have high hopes for TOR, but I know nothing will ever replace the joy of pre cu/nge galaxies. I miss you my love, heh.

Doc/swordsman was my fave

[Beethoven]

On the long live DDO note, you are net yet aware of the bigger picture and the near certainty DDO is done in 2014 i guess.

WotC gave the license for D&D MMORPG's to Atari. The decission there can be only one D&D based MMORPG was far more Atari than WotC. Atari contracted Cyrptic to create Neverwinter and the same time started (allegedly) undercut Turbine in order to remove their license (for reference see the Turbine vs Atari lawsuit). Atari is out of the picture now and the license is back with WotC, which opened the door for Cryptic to develop Neverwinter Nights as second D&D based MMORPG without any side citing license violations.

WotC is not known to be half the sticklers about licenses than Atari and so far it looks like they have no beef with two games using the DnD brandname. Why wouldn't they? They get parts of the profit of each game that uses their license. Shutting DDO down would cost them money unless they can be sure everyone who pays money in 2013 for DDO would go to Neverwinter Nights and spend the same money there. They are not silly enough to believe that's going to happen. WotC effectively shuts down DDO many DDO fans are more likely to migrate to other games.

Neverwinter Night fails (for whatever reason, be it because it never really kicks off, Cyrptic some point decides to no longer support it or the game just gets messed up some point), WoTC Still gets many from DDO. DDO starts failing they still have Neverwinter Nights to fall back. There may also be people who actually play (and spend money) on both games. Allowing two DnD games to persist is (fiscally) a win/win for WotC.



Time Warner bought turbine for their microtransaction system. They stated this to their shareholders. They did not buy turbine for DDO.

Yes, because saying: "hey, we are a bunch of DnD nerds. So, we took /your/ money and bought a DnD game" would have gone over so well with TW's shareholders. You are reading too much into it. TW's press release sent to their shareholders is neither indicative TW cares for DDO or that they don't. It is only indicative that TW thought their shareholder did not care about DnD enough.

It doesn't change the fact now that they own Turbine they have a vested interest in Turbine's well being as company and if someone sets out to actively harm Turbine's business TW is probably not going to look kindly upon it(which in business terms is likely to mean get their legal team involved). I am not saying this would inevitably cause some sort of clash of the titans, but it' also not be a situation any company would want to get into unless for good reason (and as stated above, WotC does not stand to profit from there being only one DnD themed game).


I will also add. The current state of DDO and the amount of bugs that keep going unfixed, and the amount of lag that seems to get worse with each and every update, it will make it so easy to just leave it behind when TOR does come out.

That's operating under the assumption there will be no such issues down the line with Star Wars. However, I cannot think of a single MMORPG with a considerable playerbase where people do not complain about lag and unresolved bugs. Also, I cannot agree lag has gotten worse with every update. I did not experience a worse lag in the last past updates and some cases there is actually less lag than a year or so ago.

Neither did I experience worse lag when U11 went life. First time I got into a very lag-filled raid instance was after they turned the event back on. I don't really feel it is actually worse than last time the event was life and in fact seems to be exactly as bad as back then; and back then it was a cause why a lot of people complaint about the event causing lag and why some people kept stating how much they hated those events.

It doesn't seem consistent every time I enter a raid. It just is some instances which leads me to believe again (and as a lot of people speculated last time) it is caused by entering a raid instance roughly the same time the Cove opens and the server tries generate multiple (and likely very complicated) event based raid-instances. I am not saying they should not get that fixed. They should. What I am saying is that I believe the event is the actual culprit of the worsening lag we experiencing right now.

As for Star Wars: I am a little disapointed since in early reviews (~ a year or so ago) they made a big deal about active combat system, but ever since seem to have given up on it and generally decided to play it safe (ie: mainstream) instead in pretty much all their systems. So, my review would be: it's Star Wars. It's well done for what it is (mainstream), but what it is not is promising to be unique and different to other MMORPGs. It has the potential to be popular the same as WoW, but does not seem likely to infringe upon DDO's niche of active combat style MMORPGs.

[redraider]

After reading all this mess, I must say that I can't wait for Oct 25th when Battlefield 3 comes out. Playing Artificer has been good prep stepping back into FPS!

[Missing_Minds]

Long Live DDO … Just keep the updates coming and I better not see + 4 Tomes in the God forsaken DDO Store DEVS..

Aim that at marketing, not the developers.

[Krago]

Doc/swordsman was my fave

Master Squad Leader was a blast.

[Crystalizer]

I don't think you can compare DDO to any other MMO, DDO is a very specific MMO.
SWTOR will be much closer to the main MMOs gameplay, regarding Turbine MMOs, LOTRO will be closer than DDO to SWTOR.

Anyway, I will try SWTOR, I know that either i will stick to it straight or I will be back to DDO in some very few days.
From all echoes I have till now, SWTOR is very immersive, you don't grind the content, character customization is very poor and players will only play template characters. Combat system seems to be interesting, not as active as DDO but interesting. One thing seems to be very poor and needs a total revamp in SWTOR : space combat.

About the lack of character customization, DDO is getting closer to standard MMOs anyway, loads of aspects of DDO character customization have been nerfed by devs. You now need to build straight-forward characters if you don't want to finish capped with a useless character, with a stereotyped playstyle and role in a group. So all in all we are now very closed from the standard MMO template characters.

[Roguewiz]

I thoroughly enjoyed my Combat Medic/Pistoleer.

[Vanquishedfo]

WotC wouldn't mind if there was two D&D MMO's, they wouldn't mind if there was 200 D&D MMO's. For them, the more, the better.

Perfect World would of course mind , and Turbine, since those are the ones in competition. But WotC will get license fees and publicity, so what's not to like for them?

yeah right, this is why you see every edition of D&D ever published still fully supported. I spend alot of time at my local hobby shop. Word from the owner was when 4E hit he couldnt order anymore 3.5 books from the main whole saler. He had to resort to surplus ware house dealers. WOTC does not ever support nor endorse nor want to see thier older editions stay alive to compete with thier new ones. They dont want to see a pepsi born while starting the next coke.

[Vanquishedfo]

I don't think you can compare DDO to any other MMO, DDO is a very specific MMO.
SWTOR will be much closer to the main MMOs gameplay, regarding Turbine MMOs, LOTRO will be closer than DDO to SWTOR.

Anyway, I will try SWTOR, I know that either i will stick to it straight or I will be back to DDO in some very few days.
From all echoes I have till now, SWTOR is very immersive, you don't grind the content, character customization is very poor and players will only play template characters. Combat system seems to be interesting, not as active as DDO but interesting. One thing seems to be very poor and needs a total revamp in SWTOR : space combat.

About the lack of character customization, DDO is getting closer to standard MMOs anyway, loads of aspects of DDO character customization have been nerfed by devs. You now need to build straight-forward characters if you don't want to finish capped with a useless character, with a stereotyped playstyle and role in a group. So all in all we are now very closed from the standard MMO template characters.

yeah the build flexibility for what are considered viable end game epic builds has gone down to probably a top 12 list with one build ideal for each spot in a raid party. On top of that s the One Item to Rule them All mentality where every DPS is either khopesh or ESOS, Every caster has to get things like a TORC etc. Id sooner see epic items removed and epic only being something thier for those wanting action with thier fresh capped 20s rather then a grind that create a huge rift between 20s to the point many just decide to shelf them and play new toons or TR at 20 every time rather then waste time on a grind that doesnt even have the satisfaction for new lvls and class development.

[smatt]

yeah right, this is why you see every edition of D&D ever published still fully supported. I spend alot of time at my local hobby shop. Word from the owner was when 4E hit he couldnt order anymore 3.5 books from the main whole saler. He had to resort to surplus ware house dealers. WOTC does not ever support nor endorse nor want to see thier older editions stay alive to compete with thier new ones. They dont want to see a pepsi born while starting the next coke.


Printed properties are far different than what they have with the licensing of video game property rights.....

[Flugzeug]

I'm in the beta test as well and you know, i'll be buying and playing it. Who knows, I might play tor and ddo or just tor...depend on what turbine does to ddo in the next 2 months. To be honest, the UI is very frustrating in ddo now...i guess they are changing it back, but still, 1 month maybe 2 months of paying a sub while being frustrated. The nerf to fvs wings makes me angry, because it didn't solve the overpowered mechanics of blue bars in the game. It only took away a fun ability. They should turned wings off in lord of blades if they couldn't find a creative way to make lob hard.

you know. Star wars tor is the opposite of ddo and I enjoy that change of pace. Having been addicted to ddo for 2 years, maybee it's healthy that turbine makes me mad so I move on. Sw tor has a great story and it's fun. You don't need to grind you can just enjoy it. Not sure how the OP made it to level 17 without choosing skills or feats but they are definitely there and for customization. It's certainly not as unique as ddo used to be, but it's still fun. Do I think i'll be addicted to tor for 2 yrs like ddo. No. But it'l last til another game catches my eye or ddo gets fixed. You know, ddo is starting to become less varied and more more boring. Combat is not exciting. It used to be better but now you just beat on something or dot something and wait 25 min til it's dead. The claim that ddo cmbat is more exciting or varied used to be true but not anymore. Character customization is still the best part about ddo but do realize most multiclasses are gimped and ddo punishes that...so it's not like you can make a 6 bard 6 cleric and 8 wizard. Lol. Star wars tor's strength is ddo's weakness. Storyline and voice acting. It's a good change of pace to have that be great.

[Vordax]

Well 5e is already being worked on

Do you have an official link? All I can find is rampant rumor mongering and speculation based on Monte Cooks return. A new edition would be nice, especially if its a lot more like 3.5 or Pathfinder.

Vordax

[ghettoGenius]

Yeah I been following the development since it was announced and Im very disappointed to see them making a WOW clone. The sr devs have said they love the WOW model and they are being true to their words in replicating much of the system. It will seriously lack customization and the combat pales in comparison to DDO.

Im sure it will capture my attention for awhile as it is after all Star Wars, but for how long is another question. So sad that they cant get a Star Wars MMO right. Ive run the gambit of emotions following SWTOR and its just heart-wrenching to see them take the game in that direction.

[Tirisha]

In this day and age of the popularity of point and click, zero-strategy simplicity of Facebook games like Mafia Wars and Farmville, its quite clear theres a huge market for games that dont force you to think.


Let's be honest here, DDO isn't exactly exempt from that descriptions. I mean moving and holding down the attack button *or using auto attack* isn't extremely skill depended.



D&D 4.0 is a very dumbed down D&D, and any old school P&Per knows that.



4.0 has less strategy involved when compared to moving into flanking and swinging generic attack rolls?

To the OP: I really don't think you've gotten far enough in the game to make a fair judgment call. Traditional MMOs *not just WOW* are designed with end game in mind for combat complexity. Leveling isn't gonna be overly challenging as it isn't challenging whatsoever in DDO.

And no it is not a copy paste of WOW. It is built like a Standard MMO like WOW is, and rift, and Aion and Everquest and guildwars and LOTRO and FFXI and FFIV. There are differences between all of these games as there are with SWTOR, the similarities come with the GENRE.

DDO is more outside the genre in design, but there are pros and cons for both templates.

[Chai]

A WoW clone is just about what I predicted actually. At some point in time there had to be at least one occurrence of a bunch of corporate decision makers sitting in a room brainstorming a game just like WoW with a way to take market share in the LCD MMO market - and a real good way to do that is to base the MMO in a popular universe alot of people are familiar with. LOTR has already been done so the best one left was Star Wars.