New Point Codes - Rise In Real World Trading?

[Unreliable]

So this is just my assumption. Now that Turbine has made points so easy to trade between people (through a simple code, which can be sent through email, or even an in game tell [if your stupid...])

Anyone else think this is going to lead to a huge rise in RWT'ing? (Real World Trading)

I dont know, this is just my assumption... I know Turbine has some pretty strict rules in place for RWT'ing, but it seems to me they just made it that much easier.

Here is the link to the website you can buy a DDO Store Point Code:
You buy it, you get emailed a code, go into the DDO Store enter the code and you have your points.
http://store.turbine.com/store/turbine/html/pbPage.ddopage

[Vellrad]

What u talking about?
Where's some dev post?

[redspecter23]

I'm also a bit confused. A helpful link or some info for the sake of the discussion please. It does sound intriguing.

[Unreliable]

What u talking about?
Where's some dev post?


I'm also a bit confused. A helpful link or some info for the sake of the discussion please. It does sound intriguing.

Ill put the link in the OP one sec.

[redspecter23]

Interesting. It's probably against the rules to buy the points then give the code to somebody else and receive any sort of payment for it. Not that it will stop people from doing it behind the scenes if it's to their benefit. I suppose a good question might be, is it ok to buy the points, then give the code away for no compensation?

[Unreliable]

Interesting. It's probably against the rules to buy the points then give the code to somebody else and receive any sort of payment for it. Not that it will stop people from doing it behind the scenes if it's to their benefit. I suppose a good question might be, is it ok to buy the points, then give the code away for no compensation?

Yeah thats kind of what I was thinking...

It is against the rules, but people will still do it anyway...

And its not like people havent been doing it before this... Its just that now Turbine has made it a whole lot easier.

Just a thought.

[Musouka]

This isn't anything really new. Turbine is just doing it directly from them now. There were websites where you could buy point codes or VIP codes already. And you can just go buy a point card from a store and share the number too.

[smeggy1384]

Haven't the point cards been out for a while anyway? You go to the store, buy a card (works for those with no debit/credit card) and use it ingame to redeem the points. If someone wanted to "abuse" that by letting others redeem it they already have been.

[Vellrad]

Cool.
Now I don't have to live in USA to give someone TP as a gift.

[Unreliable]

Haven't the point cards been out for a while anyway? You go to the store, buy a card (works for those with no debit/credit card) and use it ingame to redeem the points. If someone wanted to "abuse" that by letting others redeem it they already have been.

I guess... Now its just cheaper and easier, no need to go to the store to buy a code anymore. Just do it all online.

[destiny4405]

WTT red scales for redeem code topics soon?

[darkrune]

WTT red scales for redeem code topics soon?

More like you want that +4 tome of x that I just pulled... Well I need ## of points who is in?

[Pfold]

More like you want that +4 tome of x that I just pulled... Well I need ## of points who is in?
Ooh, I didn't even think about that. Yeah, that's pretty sinister. Then again I believe the only ones pulling +4 tomes nowadays will be in guild/channel runs.

[BOgre]

Who's going to buy a point code from a middleman who's going to charge a markup when they can go buy their own code from Turbine for less?

[BOgre]

More like you want that +4 tome of x that I just pulled... Well I need ## of points who is in?

Um, all that would take would be ONE person reporting it to result in a permanent ban.

[destiny4405]

Um, all that would take would be ONE person reporting it to result in a permanent ban.

why? gifts are encouraged by turbine.

[BOgre]

gifts. not trading in-game items for real world currency. Trade a loot drop for a TP code, get reported, get banned. If a CSR would comment about this that'd be great, but I for one wouldn't be trying it.

[MsEricka]

It is against the Code of Conduct to exchange real life money for in game goods.


You may not advertise the intent to, or commit the act of, unauthorized selling or buying of game items for real-world monetary values.

Rule #11 http://www.turbine.com/support/134

[Veriden]

Cool.
Now I don't have to live in USA to give someone TP as a gift.

why every time I read giving some one a 'tp' gift do I think of covering their house and lawn in toliet paper?

[Thebeest]

It is against the Code of Conduct to exchange real life money for in game goods.



Rule #11 http://www.turbine.com/support/134

but would you not actually be trading in-game turbine point code (only usable in-game) for in-game items? if you say no, then what about this example:

player a buys/VIP vale of twilight adventure pack - they then sell/trade LDS for heart of wood. if you say no to the above, then how is this example not a violation also, as you would not have a LDS without having paid real life money to obtain the pack, and therefore, the LDS.

*assume that player A does not buy vale with earned tp's for sake of argument

[MrkGrismer]

It is against the Code of Conduct to exchange real life money for in game goods.



Rule #11 http://www.turbine.com/support/134

Otherwise people might start wondering how many TP a Large Devil Scale would go for...

and that would be just wrong...

[SilkofDrasnia]

So this is just my assumption. Now that Turbine has made points so easy to trade between people (through a simple code, which can be sent through email, or even an in game tell )

Anyone else think this is going to lead to a huge rise in RWT'ing? (Real World Trading)

I dont know, this is just my assumption... I know Turbine has some pretty strict rules in place for RWT'ing, but it seems to me they just made it that much easier.

Here is the link to the website you can buy a DDO Store Point Code:
You buy it, you get emailed a code, go into the DDO Store enter the code and you have your points.
http://store.turbine.com/store/turbine/html/pbPage.ddopage

yh think it will happen, poeple doing trades for a set amount of points (or a code). it will lead to some scams but still it will keep on happening like in evry other mmo out there. the next logical step if for them to add a "code section" in the AH

the reason will be " to avoid scams"






Otherwise people might start wondering how many TP a Large Devil Scale would go for...

and that would be just [i]wrong...

tp or more to the point "codes" are not real life money

[Cyr]

It is against the Code of Conduct to exchange real life money for in game goods.



Rule #11 http://www.turbine.com/support/134

That is true. However, Turbine has argued pretty strongly in the past that TP are not real life money and are a virtual currency with no inherent real life monetary value.

[MrkGrismer]

tp or more to the point "codes" are not real life money

I dunno, if the codes can only be bought with real life money then they are functionally identical. TP, on the other hand can be earned in game so it is technically a little different. But I would think that selling me 5 Large Devil Scales for 5000 TP would be a violation (and perhaps a rip-off as well ;) ).

[SilkofDrasnia]

I dunno, if the codes can only be bought with real life money then they are functionally identical. TP, on the other hand can be earned in game so it is technically a little different. But I would think that selling me 5 Large Devil Scales for 5000 TP would be a violation (and perhaps a rip-off as well ;) ).

perhaps i agree with u even BUT in my humble experience for evryone that agrees there will be many that disagree,
look at perfect world for example ;) or last chaos etc etc etc and you shall see its turbines and the suits from WB that will decide.

so if they see an increase in "codes" sales from this in game code trading what do u think will happen ? ;)

[Musouka]

perhaps i agree with u even BUT in my humble experience for evryone that agrees there will be many that disagree,
look at perfect world for example ;) or last chaos etc etc etc and you shall see its turbines and the suits from WB that will decide.

so if they see an increase in "codes" sales from this in game code trading what do u think will happen ? ;)

I know what I will do. I will say bye bye and walk away from this game forever if they ever allow it or endorse it. I doubt I am alone on this, because that is when it really does become 'pay to win'

[SilkofDrasnia]

I know what I will do. I will say bye bye and walk away from this game forever if they ever allow it or endorse it. I doubt I am alone on this, because that is when it really does become 'pay to win'

and so what if u do?

its been proven in other games for everyone like u that does walk away 2 people with big pockets will take your place, again look at PW or LC amongst a few examples

[smatt]

There is no doubt in my mind that this will open up the possibilities of people selling in game lot items for the TP equivalant of real world money (IE Point Codes). Will I do it? Nope.. Will others? Yep... Will it be officially sanctioned by Turbine? Not likely.. Is there anyway for them to enforce some kidn fo rule against it? Nope... Did Turbine think abou tthis prospect when they came up with this idea? They most certainly did.... But at the saem time they are addressing an issue where some people had issues with buying Turbine points.... And it seems ahve little problem with people sellign in game loot for TP's since... Well Turbine itself is profiting from said sales, not some outside entity, such as the old plat sellers ETC....

Business is Business, now I shall hide from the incoming arrows of the "How dare they crowd" :D

[Musouka]

and so what if u do?

its been proven in other games for everyone like u that does walk away 2 people with big pockets will take your place, again look at PW or LC amongst a few examples

You're missing the point. If I walked away from it, however it goes afterward really has no effect on me.

Also, it's been proven that people will make up stuff online all the time without supporting it except citing 'it's been proven.'

However, in my previous post in this thread, other websites have been selling Turbine Point Codes already. So it's not like this is a NEW feature.

[dunklezhan]

Cool.
Now I don't have to live in USA to give someone TP as a gift.

This.

[SilkofDrasnia]

You're missing the point. If I walked away from it, however it goes afterward really has no effect on me.

Also, it's been proven that people will make up stuff online all the time without supporting it except citing 'it's been proven.'

However, in my previous post in this thread, other websites have been selling Turbine Point Codes already. So it's not like this is a NEW feature.

im not saying i want this to happen im just saying there's good chances it will happen and threats of i will quit im sure will do zippo

as for proof ive pointed out 2 games as the basis of my opinions so before u claim im just making up stuff just go try those to games out and then when YOU do KNOW what ur talking about come back n refute my opinion

[dunklezhan]

perhaps i agree with u even BUT in my humble experience for evryone that agrees there will be many that disagree,
look at perfect world for example ;) or last chaos etc etc etc and you shall see its turbines and the suits from WB that will decide.

so if they see an increase in "codes" sales from this in game code trading what do u think will happen ? ;)

Much though I don't want to defend the globalhypermegacorp, you are aware that Turbine has a 'suit' layer just like any other corp, right?

Never mind. At least the Shiawase decision was averted. Now I wonder what xmas eve will bring this year...

[SilkofDrasnia]

Much though I don't want to defend the globalhypermegacorp, you are aware that Turbine has a 'suit' layer just like any other corp, right?

Never mind. At least the Shiawase decision was averted. Now I wonder what xmas eve will bring this year...


im not sure i understand what your trying to communicate to me here?

yes im aware turbine has "suits" are u aware that the "suits" in WB own the ones in turbine?

[EustaceTrevelyan]

Um, all that would take would be ONE person reporting it to result in a permanent ban.

/this, really. Doesn't stop you from making the arrangements outside of the game, but still, all modern mmporgs have a way to flag susupicious activity. Of course you can lay a mil plat on someone once in awhile, but a mil isn't worth $30, so we're talking multiple characters/transactions, etc. Possible but given that only premium or better can hold large sums of money, you're still going to be trackable. Making it a lot harder to do this for a living and not get caught, even at the lower CoL that prevails in non-western countries.

[Musouka]

im not saying i want this to happen im just saying there's good chances it will happen and threats of i will quit im sure will do zippo

as for proof ive pointed out 2 games as the basis of my opinions so before u claim im just making up stuff just go try those to games out and then when YOU do KNOW what ur talking about come back n refute my opinion

Stating look at a couple games doesn't actually prove anything. You're saying look at this game, it seems to be doing fine, but is it really doing better than not having it? Do you have articles or numbers to support the differences?

You're really showing your point by throwing out acronyms that everyone is immediately going to understand, right?</sarcasm> I looked up PW in google, thankfully it popped up. LC, I couldn't find a definitive answer on the first page of google search.

I sincerely doubt both of those actually have a player base to consider any likeness to that of the major MMORPGs that are against RMT. I get this opinion just from reading PW's forums on the topic.

EDIT: Overall, it seems like a gamble regardless. It also depends on how good the game really is.

[B0ltdrag0n]

but would you not actually be trading in-game turbine point code (only usable in-game) for in-game items? if you say no, then what about this example:

player a buys/VIP vale of twilight adventure pack - they then sell/trade LDS for heart of wood. if you say no to the above, then how is this example not a violation also, as you would not have a LDS without having paid real life money to obtain the pack, and therefore, the LDS.

*assume that player A does not buy vale with earned tp's for sake of argument

Ok. I will also assume that Player B doesn't buy Hearts of wood but instead found one. *crashes the logic train at the station*

[SilkofDrasnia]

Stating look at a couple games doesn't actually prove anything. You're saying look at this game, it seems to be doing fine, but is it really doing better than not having it? Do you have articles or numbers to support the differences?

You're really showing your point by throwing out acronyms that everyone is immediately going to understand, right?</sarcasm> I looked up PW in google, thankfully it popped up. LC, I couldn't find a definitive answer on the first page of google search.

I sincerely doubt both of those actually have a player base to consider any likeness to that of the major MMORPGs that are against RMT.

i could likewise ask you for ur numbers but then i know better than that as in forums its not about numbers but about opinions

as for player base well LOL tis clear u dont know know what u are talking about.

anyhoot im not gonna debate this further (as ur just leading this away from the topic) ive said my piece and u can believe wat u want just as i may

[dunklezhan]

im not sure i understand what your trying to communicate to me here?

yes im aware turbine has "suits" are u aware that the "suits" in WB own the ones in turbine?

Ignore the second sentence. Please. It's irrelevant to your post, honest. My first sentence was just that the way you'd written your post it was as if only the WB lot are 'suits'. It's probably not what you meant. :)

[Musouka]

i could likewise ask you for ur numbers but then i know better than that as in forums its not about numbers but about opinions

as for player base well LOL tis clear u dont know know what u are talking about.

anyhoot im not gonna debate this further (as ur just leading this away from the topic) ive said my piece and u can believe wat u want just as i may

http://www.brighthub.com/video-games/mmo/articles/35992.aspx

How many of those listed there allow RMT.

[SilkofDrasnia]

http://www.brighthub.com/video-games/mmo/articles/35992.aspx

How many of those listed there allow RMT.

that a small and limited list and is why i dislike the whole show me the number as numbers can be manipulated to prove pretty much w/e also note those game are mostly subscription based and as such kinda mean zippo as its f2p games that allow rmt usually also ur forgetting much of my claim is that trading for a coupon codes isnt "rmt"

RMT would be more like what the new diablo is planning which is very different that what we are talking about

[Thebeest]

Ok. I will also assume that Player B doesn't buy Hearts of wood but instead found one. *crashes the logic train at the station*

are not purchased hearts of wood BTA? (untradeable) *train is revived and on track*

[Unreliable]

That is true. However, Turbine has argued pretty strongly in the past that TP are not real life money and are a virtual currency with no inherent real life monetary value.

I like your logic.

[Musouka]

that a small and limited list and is why i dislike the whole shoiw me the number as numbers can be manipulated to prove pretty much w/e also note those game are mostly subscription based and as suck kinda mean zippo as its f2p games that allow rmt usually also ur forgetting much of my claim is that trading for a coupon codes isnt "rmt"

RMT would be more like what the new diablo is planning which is very different that what we are talking about

Ok, from previous posts though... 2 taking the place of 1, and me saying they'd do better without it vs. having it. Agree both of those are just opinion.

[B0ltdrag0n]

are not purchased hearts of wood BTA? (untradeable) *train is revived and on track*


Who said it was purchased? Hearts are very rare loot drops in game and I believe the ones from Festivault were specifically unbound.

[SilkofDrasnia]

Ok, from previous posts though... 2 taking the place of 1, and me saying they'd do better without it vs. having it. Agree both of those are just opinion.

oh yes that just my opinion and my 2 will replace 1 is way out there im just trying to make a point.

i played LC when it was very young n played it for a long time it had really good potential but changes were made and i argued against them like many other and like many others eventually quit thinking aww doom the game gonna fail yet it hasn't and is still going 3 years or so after i left along with most of the other "vets"

and is why the people will quit etc is just not an effective argument

[Thebeest]

boltdragon -

i was specifically comparing something that has to be paid for (vale pack) and the then acquired LDS because of said purchase, and then trading that for something in-game that is random loot or purchased and tradeable (what player A is buying is not really relevant).

LDS = T.P. Code

[BOgre]

boltdragon -

i was specifically comparing something that has to be paid for (vale pack) and the then acquired LDS because of said purchase, and then trading that for something in-game that is random loot or purchased and tradeable (what player A is buying is not really relevant).

LDS = T.P. Code

Complete Red Herring. Your example is trading loot for loot. The owner of the Vale pack isn't giving it up, he keeps it.

I wish that the CSRs would not be standing back waiting to see how this argument shakes out. Step in and **** this down please, Turbine.

[Rodasch]

The mental gymnastics some of you people are doing to try to muddy the water is ridiculous.

Trading a LDS for a heart of wood is not in any way shape or form paying real world money for in game items. The traded items are exactly that, in game items traded directly within the game. How you obtained either is irrelevent to the trade at hand. Whether you got it by owning a pack, riding a guest pass, or random f2p chest doesn't matter.

Selling a LDS or that Tharne's Goggles that just dropped for 5000 TP directly to a player when you are not an agent of Turbine authorized to make DDO Store sales to players is clearly a violation to anyone who's not deluding themselves with double-talk and ridiculous hypothetical obfuscations.

Whether you're trading credit card numbers, paypal payments, TP point codes (card or online), mailing cash check or money orders, or whatever...if the trade involves using any system outside the game itself to resolve, including a browser window, you are likely violating the ToS and could earn a ban.

Let's not fool ourselves.

[Thebeest]

Complete Red Herring. Your example is trading loot for loot. The owner of the Vale pack isn't giving it up, he keeps it.

I wish that the CSRs would not be standing back waiting to see how this argument shakes out. Step in and **** this down please, Turbine.

Agree, would like clarification as it is obviously not clear at all. comes down to turbines decision on whether tp codes are considered real life money. If yes, banning offense, if no, pay 10k tp to me per LDS :)

[MrkGrismer]

if no, pay 10k tp to me per LDS :)

Now you really are dreaming. A hunnert bucks for an LDS would be way over priced.

(notice I am in no way talking about real money here, I'm talking about a mythical species of deer)

[Thebeest]

The mental gymnastics some of you people are doing to try to muddy the water is ridiculous.

Trading a LDS for a heart of wood is not in any way shape or form paying real world money for in game items. The traded items are exactly that, in game items traded directly within the game. How you obtained either is irrelevent to the trade at hand. Whether you got it by owning a pack, riding a guest pass, or random f2p chest doesn't matter.

Selling a LDS or that Tharne's Goggles that just dropped for 5000 TP directly to a player when you are not an agent of Turbine authorized to make DDO Store sales to players is clearly a violation to anyone who's not deluding themselves with double-talk and ridiculous hypothetical obfuscations.

Whether you're trading credit card numbers, paypal payments, TP point codes (card or online), mailing cash check or money orders, or whatever...if the trade involves using any system outside the game itself to resolve, including a browser window, you are likely violating the ToS and could earn a ban.

Let's not fool ourselves.

I believe you may be fooling yourself that you can somehow intepret turbine's intentions when there is nothing to backup your claim. can you answer the following with absolute certainty: are turbine point codes real life money in the context of the DDO Terms of Service?

that is the only question that needs answered, all other scenarios and questions come from this one.

[Desdemonte]

I've seen "Wanted to Buy" messages in trade chat for Guest Passes. How is this any different?

[Rodasch]

I believe you may be fooling yourself that you can somehow intepret turbine's intentions when there is nothing to backup your claim. can you answer the following with absolute certainty: are turbine point codes real life money in the context of the DDO Terms of Service?

that is the only question that needs answered, all other scenarios and questions come from this one.

I have news for you...turbine point codes are the same thing as turbine point cards. If you tell someone to mail you one of those or email you the code off of it before you give them an in game item, you're still requiring someone else to pay real life money directly for that code, which in itself represents a real life money expenditure of x dollars (or euros, or whatever) until such time as it is converted into TP's by redemption. Once it's turbine points, then sure, it's not "real life money", but until it is redeemed as such, it still represents a real world value rather than an in-game one.

By your "argument", credit card numbers are not real world money, but only represent the opportunity to redeem them for stuff we want, so they should be fair game to trade for in game items too, huh? Oh that's different because credit cards can be used outside the game to buy stuff? So can turbine point codes, if you know where to trade them (hint: it's online, and it pays cash money for valid codes for all sorts of redeemable cards).

If turbine comes on here and says I'm 100% wrong, I'd be terribly surprised. It doesn't take a mind reader to look at what people are suggesting and see it's clearly against the ToS. The intention behind the rule is to protect the user from scams and cons by restricting all expense transactions to Turbine or it's authorized re-sellers...removing the ability for another player to "legally" trick another player into paying them for something they then do not relinquish once they get the money.

[Cordovan]

Trading in-game items for real-world monetary values is prohibited by the Code of Conduct. (http://www.turbine.com/support/134)


11. You may not advertise the intent to, or commit the act of, unauthorized selling or buying of game items for real-world monetary values.