Perhaps Turbine made a mistake with the bravery bonus...

[Mattytron]

Now that TRs are running more quests on elite for the bravery bonus, we all get more favor. If we get more free TP from favor we spend less actual cash to get DDO store goodies. It's a win situation for us but I wonder how it effects their bottom line.

[mobrien316]

Now that TRs are running more quests on elite for the bravery bonus, we all get more favor. If we get more free TP from favor we spend less actual cash to get DDO store goodies. It's a win situation for us but I wonder how it effects their bottom line.

I would suspect that it still winds up in Turbine's favor.

If people are running quests on elite at level they are more likely to need resources from the DDO Store. There is more incentive to run quests at elite because of the bravery bonus. More elite runs will result in more favor, but I think the additional resources used up likely make up for the extra points given out for accumulating favor.

[Crazyfruit]

I'm sure the people buying Res Cakes, instant hirelings, pots, and stuff'll easily make up for the extra TP others get. It's sort of like the best players (if they choose to do elite when they wouldn't have before) are being subsidized by the less capable players. I hope that's right word, thinking in french right now.

[LordRavnos]

I think its going to lead to the f2p crowd buying more packs to keep the streak going, or if they lose a streak get it back easier, and to try to avoid farming quests over and over. Plus yes TRs can open hard and TR2+ can do elite, and VIPS can, but I bet there are f2ps who just bought a massive bleep ton of elite unlocks to get that streak and keep it going now, instead of waiting to TR or even do it in the first place

[karsion]

I think its going to lead to the f2p crowd buying more packs to keep the streak going, or if they lose a streak get it back easier, and to try to avoid farming quests over and over. Plus yes TRs can open hard and TR2+ can do elite, and VIPS can, but I bet there are f2ps who just bought a massive bleep ton of elite unlocks to get that streak and keep it going now, instead of waiting to TR or even do it in the first place

Ok, first of all if they are f2p then they don't spend money hence they don't increase the profit.

Nitpicking aside unless they are very unwise they won't do this cause to open a bunch of quests will cost you couple of dollars. For ten dollars you can have VIP for a month...

[Mattytron]

Perhaps it's just me, but halfway through this life all I see is more PUGing by TRs. I'm not seeing a change in people eating pots or cakes that much. It's possible that at later levels I will but I kinda doubt it. On a side note people are actually waiting for trapmonkeys now since the few traps you can't avoid are deadly. This is just from my personal experience though.

[fuzzy1guy]

I'm betting its an overall loss of cash for them.

With more TR's now running elite only, byoh, know the way, guild only, zerg only, no -10%, selective for bonus groups...

Alot of newer people are left out. They get bored before they've paid turbine any money at all and leave.


What little mixing we had with older/newer players is now reduced even more with some of these latest changes.

[LordRavnos]

Ok, first of all if they are f2p then they don't spend money hence they don't increase the profit.

Nitpicking aside unless they are very unwise they won't do this cause to open a bunch of quests will cost you couple of dollars. For ten dollars you can have VIP for a month...

Sorry I meant premium, I usually lump them together because for some reason f2p just means no monthly fees in my mind, so yeah stupid but its hard for me to break habits. But I still stand by it since I see people asking more frequently which packs to buy for loot and xp and favor so they can maximize there streak. Lets face it, people who want instant gratification are not always wise, and some of them may have just been waiting for a good reason to buy a pack, never mind buying stuff inside a quest when they realize they need it.

As for the 10 a month gets you vip, yes it does if you buy 3 months in advance, but a lot of premium players want to "own" the game, not "rent it", some do not have enough disposable income to reliably have a subscription so prefer to buy what they need and some just like being able to drop there sub and have access to quests they love.

[Mackem]

Now that TRs are running more quests on elite for the bravery bonus, we all get more favor. If we get more free TP from favor we spend less actual cash to get DDO store goodies. It's a win situation for us but I wonder how it effects their bottom line.

I have to disagree. I am "premium" and I do love extra TP, but the only only difference post-bravery system for me is that now I run my every TR character on elite at about his level (potentially at higher resources cost - good for DDO store :) ) while before that I was farming content on normal till my eyes bleed and STILL waste my time speed running favor much much later at higher level.

So in a nutshell: same TP generated, you do not run same stuff twice (once for EXP, once later for favor) plus you may buy a res cake here and there if you screw something up :)


I'm betting its an overall loss of cash for them.

With more TR's now running elite only, byoh, know the way, guild only, zerg only, no -10%, selective for bonus groups...

Alot of newer people are left out. They get bored before they've paid turbine any money at all and leave.

What little mixing we had with older/newer players is now reduced even more with some of these latest changes.

While the social aspect of grouping indeed can be somewhat affected, I hope there would be still enough groups going on LFM. I personally like to start banking exp on my TR's early. And while I may prefer to run that first elite Tear with a guildie or hireling (dungeon scaling) under-level, I'd be happy to farm it dry right after on Normal with anyone who cares to join. :)

[sirgog]

I'm betting its an overall loss of cash for them.

With more TR's now running elite only, byoh, know the way, guild only, zerg only, no -10%, selective for bonus groups...

Alot of newer people are left out. They get bored before they've paid turbine any money at all and leave.


What little mixing we had with older/newer players is now reduced even more with some of these latest changes.

I PUG more now.

Pre-U11, solo normal was the way to get XP.

Post-U11, 6 player Elite is better. Usually, that's about 2 vets, 2 longer-term casual players, and 2 newbies.

Yes, you seldom get the 10% flawless bonus, but that's only 3-4% of the XP for a first-time elite run anyway. Those newbies contribute enough DPS to cut 3-4% off the completion time for sure.

[Bodic]

Well lets look at TP ans say you have never earned any favor what so ever and you make it to 3767 /100 37x25= 925 +450(first time bonuses)=1375 TP and go earn another 100 favor on a different toon and you get 5 Major Xp pots(30h 20%).

Now the common is 925 w/o bonuses so grind out another 300 favor on toon and net 5 Greater Xp pots(15h 20%)

Yeah I dont think the common folk are going to 1-20 in 30 hours on a TR. Its possible sure, just not probable.

[Nahual]

Now that TRs are running more quests on elite for the bravery bonus, we all get more favor. If we get more free TP from favor we spend less actual cash to get DDO store goodies. It's a win situation for us but I wonder how it effects their bottom line.

Dont think it makes a diference really as trs farm normal and would always run elite at some point. Newbies only get TPs faster basically.

[bashemgud]

People need to stop thinking there's a giant conspiracy to make more cash behind every one of Turbine's actions.

It sounds retarted, really.

[peetrs]

I think it's nice bonus for TRs, but it has potential to screw up 1st lifers, because they just do lvls so fast they won't have enough time to properly learn their class . I created sorc recently and these bravery bonuses are like insta win button. I'm VIP so since i can open elite everywhere, I don't do other difficulties then elite (I would do elite even without bravery, since elite is fun, other difficulties are not). Perhaps on few XP heavy quests, where it's nice to get all 3 1st time bonuses (like Tear, SC, Delara and Pit).

But it kinda feels strange when you can make it from fresh lvl 5 to lvl 6 just by running Tanglewoot on elite, that's just sick :D Seriously, I've done SC with late arrival (-80%) and it still netted 13k xp, whoa? This can't be serious. It feels like Turbine is giving free xp to anyone, which in fact is going to increase their income, because there will be more Hearts sold from store (just because you hit the cap in no time), I'm sure it's possible to make lvl 20 in one day (even faster in fact) with guild group.

Ad pugging: I don't really think this is going to help pugging in any way (or make it worse either). I don't pug much (I just don't like people who doesn't listen and act like complete noobs), if you don't count groupping with people on my friendlist as pugging and only change I'm seeing when I check LFM panel is that more quests are run on elite then before. That's about it.

[Ugumagre]

The more XP, the more people TR.
To TR what do you need? And where do you buy that what you need?

[Gkar]

Dont think it makes a diference really as trs farm normal and would always run elite at some point. Newbies only get TPs faster basically.

Right, instead of: Nx6 Hx1 Ex1 its now Ex1 Nx5 Hx1

[Gkar]

The more XP, the more people TR.
To TR what do you need? And where do you buy that what you need?

You buy a Heart for free from an NPC by trading in token from running epics.

[learst]

Erm, no offense, but if you're talking about new players or strictly F2P, not all of them care too much bout XP. They're still exploring what DDO has to offer. At most they grind for favour, but not necessarily starting with Elite to get the streak.

So it probably would affect them less, other than less quests being run since they level up so quickly.

And as much as vets and old players focus so much on TR, not all players are aware and focused on it.

[Ugumagre]

You buy a Heart for free from an NPC by trading in token from running epics.

Well, yes, but it is a horrible grind, and a difficult one, at least I have heard that. And the tokens are BtC.
I think a lot of people buy the heart at the store.
But I may be mistaken.

[Vellrad]

Well, yes, but it is a horrible grind, and a difficult one, at least I have heard that. And the tokens are BtC.
I think a lot of people buy the heart at the store.
But I may be mistaken.

You are.
tokems are bta, and not hard to get (jut takes couple days).

[Ugumagre]

You are.
tokems are bta, and not hard to get (jut takes couple days).

Ok, yes, the heart you get from the NPC is BtC, right. So actually not a problem.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I don't believe it generates (much) more favor.

The grinders were already running elite once anyway.

It might help casual players get more favor though.

[Crazyfruit]

You are.
tokems are bta, and not hard to get (jut takes couple days).

20 hours worth of repeating a form of content most players don't like, and quests they might've already done countless times at lower levels.

Would be very surprised if the majority of TR hearts weren't sold through the store.

[Gkar]

20 hours worth of repeating a form of content most players don't like, and quests they might've already done countless times at lower levels.

Would be very surprised if the majority of TR hearts weren't sold through the store.

Most L20 do run epic raids. Epic raids generate epic raid tokens that can be traded for epic dunegon tokens so a lot of people get them almost by accident while grinidng for epic gear.

[Crazyfruit]

Most L20 do run epic raids. Epic raids generate epic raid tokens that can be traded for epic dunegon tokens so a lot of people get them almost by accident while grinidng for epic gear.

'fraid not. Epic players are a minority, and people who do the raids & enough of these for 20 tokens are even less.

All of us posting on the forums are a minority too :)

[Oakianus]

While it may be true that very few people run enough epics to get epic hearts from the store, it's definitely a bad, bad decision. Epic BoB, Tide Turns, Snitch and Partycrashers can be run by all but the most incompetent capped toons, and between them are good for roughly 3 epic tokens per day. Which means you're looking at only about a week for a heart, and I know that the vast majority of folks (especially those scared to run epics!) aren't too likely to finish a TR in a week. :P

Not that I mind people failing to run super easy epics and thus spending money on keeping my favorite game running. :D

[protokon]

the only mistake they made was the fact that the bonus is one-time.

If you examine the base exp for a quest on elite vs. a quest on normal, the exp difference is extremely marginal (other than the first-time bonuses).

Let's look at gianthold tor for example:

on normal difficulty it is base exp of about 6,200
elite base exp is roughly 6,900

..so after I get my bravery bonus for the first time on elite, what incentive do I have to farm it out on elite difficulty?
-10% from a death is almost guaranteed
-it takes usually a considerable amount of time more to finish each run as far as exp per min goes.

Don't get me wrong, I love the whole concept - last life I got a really nice streak racked up. but all I did was first time on elite for each quest - after that I farmed them all out normal or hard. It's a step in the right direction for sure, but some incentive to keep running the harder difficulties.

[Tharlak]

Turbine does not make mistakes.

Just ask them.

[Chai]

http://i54.tinypic.com/10qw6iu.jpg

[Darkrok]

I'm sure the people buying Res Cakes, instant hirelings, pots, and stuff'll easily make up for the extra TP others get. It's sort of like the best players (if they choose to do elite when they wouldn't have before) are being subsidized by the less capable players. I hope that's right word, thinking in french right now.

First of all, just wanted to mention that your English was dead on here. You put it very well. Bravery bonus is a trap for people that are mediocre or worse players. Or on builds that can't handle it. I have toons I wouldn't dream of trying to solo through on a bravery bonus. I'm smart enough to realize that my halfling spellsinger cc-based toon is probably a poor choice for racing through elites solo. Not everyone understands the game well enough to realize that the bravery bonus isn't really for them though...and they address those shortcomings with the ddo store, giving Turbine more money and subsidizing the play for those of us that don't need those crutches.

Now on the toons and players that can hack it though, the Bravery Bonus is really changing the leveling game. My human sorc I just rolled up last Friday is now a rank away from level 15 and on a 50 bravery streak. I haven't played a ton (though a decent amount)...went through 2 xp pots. I haven't even really repeated many quests...2 times in Shadow Crypt elite to unlock the 5-charge necklace, 2 times in WW's just to finish out a level and take advantage of the first-time Hard bonus, farming out Diplo/Framework/Eyes on Normal at 13 and then Hard at 14 for gear purposes (and nice xp/min) but beyond that pretty much once per quest on elite. Picking the right quests and hitting them on elite first time really allows first-lifers to skip the Nx? part of the farm and bring it down to either Elite and done or Elite, Hard and done. You can still farm if you'd like but it's not even remotely necessary. I haven't done any quests I wouldn't normally do and flew through to 15.

[Stanley_Nicholas]

TRs used to run N-N-N-N-N-N-H-E. Now they run E-N-N-N-N-N-N-H instead. Either way they get the same favor.

Newbs / first lifers, if they're even able to do elite the first time at-level, will perhaps get more quests completed on elite than they would have before, but they're also getting more XP out of it so they also need to run a smaller number of total quests. Needing to run fewer quests will help counteract the greater amount of favor gained per quest.

I don't see any substantial loss here for Turbine.

[Postumus]

Most L20 do run epic raids.

Most? Stats please.

[fool101]

I know I sure didn't get enough epics to buy a TR stone the first couple guys.

I was mostly running shroud to gear up when I was on. By the time I had all my GS made I figured it was time to TR on my first two capped toons and run epics on the TR lives.

Now that I have a couple capped TRs it'll probably be easier to get the heart via tokens.

[mystafyi]

I don't believe it generates (much) more favor.

not sure about everyone else, I can only comment on my experience on this matter. I TR a fair bit, iirc my account has about 15 lives between 3 toons, certainly not up to stars level though ;)

currently running 2 tr's since u11. I am finding that I am gaining a bit more favor with the bravery bonus then prior to it. I would estimate perhaps 25% more. It seemed to me that most of the favor gains were accumulated in lvls 1-10.

Edit: the 20% xp bonus currently running might have skewed things a bit though, along with the desire to check out quests i might not have run in a while.