Intelligence based Rogue Assassin

[ron111star]

Hi,

was wondering if anyone ever tried an intelligence based assassin. seems like the assassination skill would be great, and the to-hit not worse than a dex based rogue.

cheers

[Syllph]

This works great -if- you have a ton of gear to support him (crafting helps immensely). Epic Midnight's greetings are wonderfully fun. However, if this is your first life and you have little gear then I would strongly suggest against doing this. It will be painfully tough and you'll need a friendly group to carry you to 20.

You're welcome to try it but without the gear I think you'll enjoy it a lot less than a STR based.

[Kale_Hagan]

This works great -if- you have a ton of gear to support him (crafting helps immensely). Epic Midnight's greetings are wonderfully fun. However, if this is your first life and you have little gear then I would strongly suggest against doing this. It will be painfully tough and you'll need a friendly group to carry you to 20.

You're welcome to try it but without the gear I think you'll enjoy it a lot less than a STR based.

What he said. I built my assassin with intelligence as an afterthought, and only got my Int up to 30 because I pulled a +4 int tome. It wasn't bad getting to 20, but my toon is pretty gear-intensive at this point. Had to do a lot of grinding (and I'm almost done :)) to get her just right.

And Epic Midnight Greetings makes it SOOOOOO much fun. I've almost ground out all the parts for a second one.

[Therigar]

There is more that goes into a character than just the "to hit" numbers. With rogues it is a matter of balancing several different elements and tipping the scales in one direction or the other without becoming totally unbalanced.

With Artificer it might be possible to work out a split that lets a character use INT to hit and incorporates Insightful Reflexes for saves. But, such a split would involve at least 3 levels of Artificer costing the character the tier 3 Assassin PrE. I'm not sure that is very valuable.

The other way to approach things would be to depend on STR to hit. The advantage there is that STR also adds to damage. And, while base damage is the least of the factors in a rogue's overall DPS, the more damage the better.

Here the problem is that you'd still need to rely on Insightful Reflexes for saves. Plus, you want enough DEX to qualify the TWF line (or most players do). What that means is the character has at least 3 stats to worry about and none of them can be too low.

But wait, there's more. :D

See, there is this little thing called CON that really isn't such a little thing. No build can legitimately minimize CON. To be successful most characters will require a CON of at least 14. And, more is better.

The end result is that the character has no easy way to go INT based and still meet the usual requirements for STR, DEX and CON -- even if these three are kept to their lowest starting values and bumped by tomes.

Turbine is about to offer +3 tomes in the DDO Store and a player might be able to get by with 15 in each of those key stats. On the typical halfling rogue that would let a 32 point build start with 14 INT.

It a player were to accept that STR isn't going to be the focus and also accept that DEX will provide their basis to hit, the last alternative would be to go with DEX and Weapon Finesse. On the typical halfling rogue that would let the player reduce STR to something like 13 and raise DEX and INT to 16 each.

From a starting 16 DEX the halfling could put 2 racial and 3 class enhancements towards DEX along with the store bought +3 tome for 24 DEX. They could also put 5 stat increases and a store bought +3 tome towards INT for an equal 24 INT.

This then lets the player go all the way to tier 3 Assassin and stay pure class rogue. It also eliminates the need for Insightful Reflexes since DEX and INT are equal (meaning there's no advantage to relying on INT for reflex saves).

IF I were going to try to make an INT based Assassin this is probably the approach I would take. I would go halfling because of the racial bonuses to sneak attacks that will boost my chances to hit with the Cunning enhancements. That is another +4 to hit that could prove very important overall since 24 DEX will only get me into the 36 range after items and buffs are added (+7 DEX item, +3 exceptional DEX item, +2 ship buffs) -- slightly higher for players with Yugoloth favor. Having +4 to hit is like boosting DEX another 8 points.

In any case, it isn't that people haven't given it thought in the past. It is more that it takes trade offs that many players aren't willing to accept. It can be done. It might be more likely with the tome sale that is about to happen.

[ron111star]

Thanks guys

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Apparently there are some builds/gear setups that can make this work quite well.

My feeling is to make a Rogue another way first, then when you get the gear LR/GR and redo his stats then.

IMO, it is very important for a Rogue to hit their target.
SA damage is huge, but only if they hit.

I really think that no other trait about a Rogue is more important than hitting things as often as you can.

Just about any other gain that you can get will not make up for the loss of DPS from a missed SA.


On a more personal note: I am a big fan of a Dex Based Drow Assassin with a starting 16 Int!

[Kale_Hagan]

I really think that no other trait about a Rogue is more important than hitting things as often as you can.



This. If you're not hitting, you really don't count. Just about anyone can make a trapmonkey, don't specialize in that unless that's all you want to do.

Make sure that you are hitting as often as possible, and shed as much aggro as you can (i.e. max Dilplomacy, Subtle Backstabbing). Do these two things to start and worry about the other stuff later.

[TheDearLeader]

Oschkosch, in the signature.

His starting stats were:
Str 18 +5 Levelups +2 Tome
Dex 15 +2 Tome
Con 13 +3 Tome
Int 13 +3 Tome
Wis 8 +2 Tome
Cha 8 +2 Tome

With his current gear, and a +2 Int Ship Buff, his Assassinate DC is 39. I have Epic Midnight's Greetings, as well, and can swap that in for a DC 41. With those ship buffs, I have a +9 Int Mod - so the Enhancement Bonus on the eMG is almost maxed out, since +10 is the highest it will go.

What I have found is that I can reliably go about Assassinating pretty much every Epic non-named Caster in the game. I also have a pretty good chance of killing other trash in the game - especially Drow. While casters may be having issues with their Spell Resistance, they have relatively low Fort Saves. Move in - Assassinate two - move on to mowing through the rest. By that point, a Monk/Fighter/Barb has another stunned for me to attack, etc.

I love this character, and I love how huge of a benefit Assassinate is to it. A useful Assassinate DC, over 400 HP, Improved Evasion, and all with no sacrifice being made towards to-hit/damage, via max Strength.

I'd say an Int-Based Assassin would be hard pressed to beat it. You'd get at most another +1 to hit out of the enhancement bonus of eMG, while losing the to-hit that you'd be given from Strength, or Dex - this means you'd actually net a loss of to-hit. You'd also lose out on the extra damage that Strength provides, bonuses to Jump, Carrying Capacity, the ability to unlock Power Attack, the ability to use other weapons (such as Khopeshes), etc.