need help: Halfling Bard

[Bimbelbo]

I want to make a Halfling bard who is specialized in enchanting enemies (charm, dominate). <- This is the main thing and nothing to debate about it. ;)


So now I'm mainly interested in starting points (32 pt). What charisma would be advised at least to make him a decent caster? Spellsinger Prestige Enhancement? Ok then of course he needs some Con, sure. As halfling there is the 'problem' of -2 str/+2 dex; but it has to be a halfling :) How would i make him a mediocre melee-fighter? Should i go for TWF/THF and how many points into STR/DEX? Esp. interested how i could use the extra dex here to my benefit, and not waste it. Or should i focus on songs/casting and forget about melee altogether? Any suggestions appreciated, thank you very much!

[Gorbadoc]

I want to make a Halfling bard who is specialized in enchanting enemies (charm, dominate). <- This is the main thing and nothing to debate about it. ;)


So now I'm mainly interested in starting points (32 pt). What charisma would be advised at least to make him a decent caster? Spellsinger Prestige Enhancement? Ok then of course he needs some Con, sure. As halfling there is the 'problem' of -2 str/+2 dex; but it has to be a halfling :) How would i make him a mediocre melee-fighter? Should i go for TWF/THF and how many points into STR/DEX? Esp. interested how i could use the extra dex here to my benefit, and not waste it. Or should i focus on songs/casting and forget about melee altogether? Any suggestions appreciated, thank you very much!

The goals in yellow are at odds. You want good enchantments? You dump oodles of ability points, feats, and action points into it. Every +1 dc counts, and you need solid spell penetration. You want to be useful in melee? That's a relative thing, but for your DPS to be worth the healing you'll need in a raid, figure on needing a handful of feats and a not-quite-maxed strength-- things that will cut into your offensive casting ability. And, of course, you'll want a solid constitution whatever build you go with.

I've heard of bards that successfully bring on both decent melee pain and effective CC spells. I know little about them. I think an Epic Elyd Edge (http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Elyd_Edge) might be involved.

[InsanityIsYourFriend]

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)
Level 20 Chaotic Good Halfling Male
(6 Fighter \ 14 Bard)
Hit Points: 298
Spell Points: 839
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 12
Will: 11
Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 12 17 18
Dexterity 10 10 10
Constitution 16 18 18
Intelligence 8 8 8
Wisdom 8 8 8
Charisma 18 23 26
Tomes Used
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 20

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 0 0 0
Bluff 4 8 13
Concentration 7 21 28
Diplomacy 8 25 26
Disable Device n/a n/a n/a
Haggle 8 25 25
Heal -1 -1 -1
Hide 0 0 4
Intimidate 4 8 9
Jump 1 4 6
Listen -1 -1 1
Move Silently 0 0 2
Open Lock n/a n/a n/a
Perform 8 25 25
Repair -1 -1 -1
Search -1 -1 -1
Spot -1 -1 -1
Swim 1 6 6
Tumble n/a n/a n/a
Use Magic Device 8 27 31

Level 1 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Perform (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Enchantment
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Dismiss Charm
Feat: (Automatic) Fascinate
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Agility
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Bravery
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Keen Ears
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Luck
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Size Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Thrown Weapon Focus
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Courage
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Spell (1): Charm Person
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I

Level 2 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Spell (1): Hypnotism
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I

Level 3 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Competence
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I

Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (2): Hold Person
Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II

Level 5 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat
Spell (2): Blur
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II

Level 6 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
Feat: (Automatic) Suggestion
Enhancement: Bard Spellsinger I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration II

Level 7 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (2): Suggestion
Spell (3): Charm Monster
Spell (3): Haste
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II

Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Inspire Courage
Spell (3): Good Hope
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III

Level 9 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Augment Summoning
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Greatness
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song II
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music III

Level 10 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (3): Displacement
Spell (4): Otto's Sphere of Dancing
Spell (4): Dominate Person

Level 11 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (4): Hold Monster
Enhancement: Bard Charisma III

Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Feat: (Automatic) Song of Freedom
Enhancement: Bard Spellsinger II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II

Level 13 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (4): Cure Critical Wounds
Spell (5): Mass Suggestion
Spell (5): Mind Fog
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music IV

Level 14 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (5): Greater Heroism
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning III

Level 15 (Fighter)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Tower Shield Proficiency
Enhancement: Halfling Guile III

Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning IV

Level 17 (Fighter)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Halfling Guile IV

Level 18 (Fighter)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I

Level 19 (Fighter)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II

Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Swim (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Kensei Greatsword Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


can charm great, and can melee with a GS greatsword
get urself a GS hp item asap though

[Gorbadoc]

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)
Level 20 Chaotic Good Halfling Male
(6 Fighter \ 14 Bard)
Hit Points: 298
Spell Points: 839
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 12
Will: 11
Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 12 17 18
Dexterity 10 10 10
Constitution 16 18 18
Intelligence 8 8 8
Wisdom 8 8 8
Charisma 18 23 26
Tomes Used
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 20

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 0 0 0
Bluff 4 8 13
Concentration 7 21 28
Diplomacy 8 25 26
Disable Device n/a n/a n/a
Haggle 8 25 25
Heal -1 -1 -1
Hide 0 0 4
Intimidate 4 8 9
Jump 1 4 6
Listen -1 -1 1
Move Silently 0 0 2
Open Lock n/a n/a n/a
Perform 8 25 25
Repair -1 -1 -1
Search -1 -1 -1
Spot -1 -1 -1
Swim 1 6 6
Tumble n/a n/a n/a
Use Magic Device 8 27 31

Level 1 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Perform (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Enchantment
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Dismiss Charm
Feat: (Automatic) Fascinate
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Agility
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Bravery
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Keen Ears
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Luck
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Size Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Thrown Weapon Focus
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Courage
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Spell (1): Charm Person
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I

Level 2 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Spell (1): Hypnotism
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I

Level 3 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Competence
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I

Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (2): Hold Person
Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II

Level 5 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat
Spell (2): Blur
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II

Level 6 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
Feat: (Automatic) Suggestion
Enhancement: Bard Spellsinger I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration II

Level 7 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (2): Suggestion
Spell (3): Charm Monster
Spell (3): Haste
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II

Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Inspire Courage
Spell (3): Good Hope
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III

Level 9 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Augment Summoning
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Greatness
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song II
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music III

Level 10 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (3): Displacement
Spell (4): Otto's Sphere of Dancing
Spell (4): Dominate Person

Level 11 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (4): Hold Monster
Enhancement: Bard Charisma III

Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Feat: (Automatic) Song of Freedom
Enhancement: Bard Spellsinger II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II

Level 13 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (4): Cure Critical Wounds
Spell (5): Mass Suggestion
Spell (5): Mind Fog
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music IV

Level 14 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (5): Greater Heroism
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning III

Level 15 (Fighter)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Tower Shield Proficiency
Enhancement: Halfling Guile III

Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning IV

Level 17 (Fighter)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Halfling Guile IV

Level 18 (Fighter)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I

Level 19 (Fighter)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II

Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Swim (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Kensei Greatsword Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


can charm great, and can melee with a GS greatsword
get urself a GS hp item asap though

This is obviously a joke build, but I'm not seeing any humor in how you've presented it.

[BoBoDaClown]

Halfling Spellsinger

Str: 12
Con: 16
Cha: 18: level ups

Feats:
1) Toughness
3) Extend
6) Maximise
9) Spell Focus: Enchant
12) Quicken
15) Greater Spell Focus: Enchant
18) Heighten

Personally, I'm a fan if Human on a CC bard; nets you +1 cha, +2 spell pen (extra feat).

This build can CC, heal, and do a modicum of dps - useful while levelling.

As an endgame spellsinger, I actually went 18con 18cha (on a Human), and dropped toughness; thus allowing for both spell pen feats (toon has 500hp without toughness). Since I found a small amount of str to be pretty worthless.

If you actually want to do worthwhile dps, you'll start cutting into your CC ability.

[karl_k0ch]

Feats:
1) Toughness
3) Extend
6) Maximise
9) Spell Focus: Enchant
12) Quicken
15) Spell Focus
18) Heighten


Is the bolded feat a Greater Spell Focus: Enchant?

Other than that, I would't know what to do differently. :)

[BoBoDaClown]

Is the bolded feat a Greater Spell Focus: Enchant?

Other than that, I would't know what to do differently. :)

Yup. Will change for clarity.

[unbongwah]

If you're sincere about wanting to do some melee DPS, one option: take Bobo's build, swap Extend for Power Atk & GSF Enchant for IC Pierce (may need to redo feat order); pick up an epic Elyd Edge and a decent shield (maybe epic Swashbuckler slotted w/-15% ASF); and swing away. You'll have mediocre DPS at best, but at least Elyd Edge benefits from high CHA and is a nice weapon for any bard to have; and you only sacrifice +1 Enchant DC to get it.

So maybe something like this:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 True Neutral Halfling Female
(20 Bard)
Hit Points: 262
Spell Points: 1075
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 14
Will: 13

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 12 14
Dexterity 10 12
Constitution 16 18
Intelligence 8 10
Wisdom 8 10
Charisma 18 30

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Enchantment


Level 2 (Bard)


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA


Level 5 (Bard)


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 7 (Bard)


Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 10 (Bard)


Level 11 (Bard)


Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell


Level 13 (Bard)


Level 14 (Bard)


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 16 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA


Level 17 (Bard)


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 19 (Bard)


Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Spellsinger I
Enhancement: Bard Spellsinger II
Enhancement: Bard Musical Prodigy
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration II
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Incredible Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Incredible Song II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic IV
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music III
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II
Enhancement: Bard Charisma III
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery III
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery IV


That said, I'm not fond of bards who are focused on CC spells, as I think they get a bum deal: you don't have the DC boosts & extra feats of wizards nor the beaucoup SPs of a sorc or FvS; and while other casters get plenty of offensive spells to use when CC is useless or unnecessary, bards only get a few sonic spells and a handful of debuffs like Crushing Despair. Trying to be a battle-bard as well just makes a bad idea worse, IMHO.

[Gorbadoc]

That said, I'm not fond of bards who are focused on CC spells, as I think they get a bum deal: you don't have the DC boosts & extra feats of wizards nor the beaucoup SPs of a sorc or FvS; and while other casters get plenty of offensive spells to use when CC is useless or unnecessary, bards only get a few sonic spells and a handful of debuffs like Crushing Despair. Trying to be a battle-bard as well just makes a bad idea worse, IMHO.

Sigh. I usually try to skirt around this idea. People shouldn't think enchanter bards are gimpy-- they're not. But I have to agree: there are more powerful options.

You've explained the advantage of going wizard or sorc. Looking at this from the other direction, I maintain that an enchanter bard gains little over a melee bard.
Melee bards can get CC songs without cutting much into their melee abilities: 14 AP for Music of Dead and Music of Makers (comes with +4 songs per rest); DCs are decent with maxed ranks in Perform and a +Perform item.
CC songs do a solid job of letting the party choose which monster to be hit by, and when. They effectively prevent party deaths.
Additionally, CC songs reduce the total amount of damage the party takes-- not as much as Disco Ball, Mass Hold or Web might, but one of those requires that you stare at the target for a few seconds, while the others aren't bard spells.
Songs cover an awful lot of ground in terms of what you actually *need* from crowd control. Enchanter bards do add to this, but they're satisfying a need that's already largely met by the fact of being a bard.

[Bimbelbo]

Thanks for the input guys. Helped me a lot. :)