could a sorceror beat 300 barbarians in any arena in one round?

[neverconsentual]

I think so

60% displacement
100% fort
300% movement speed from things like expeditious retreat and shadow walk
aoe instakill (shock ball with metamagic feats on) on less than 2 second cooldown
the blink air savants get at third prestige

around 500 base hp
can heal self at the pace a pally can lay on hands

he could win without having to heal himself once, and maybe without getting hit once. He could probably win without even moving from his spawn and inch

i guess its realistic but you could also do something were the twelve disables some uses of magic in arena or something if you wanted the lore to be correct and pvp balanced

[twix]

Im not even sure how to reply to this....

[dkyle]

Not if all the Barbs have Lightning Strike throwers.

Also, you really don't understand how stacking works. A sorc can get 50% displacement, and +50% movement speed.

[-Zephyr-]

All I have to say is your thoughts of movment speed buff stacking couldn't be wronger. The best a pure sorc can achieve is 150% base speed with phiarlan pendant of time.

[Angelus_dead]

In general, casters with AOE spells can defeat huge numbers of melee players in a PVP arena. But in the super-lopsided example you describe, the barbs will win in one of a few ways: either all use a thrower weapon at the same time, or Sprint Boost and come in from different directions trying to Trip.

Actually for best results, half would use each method.

[barryman5000]

The sorc could win if he got a stack of store pots. The barbs could win if they bought store cakes.

J/K. I'm just trying to get the flamers that have been around on it.

[Tinco]

Congratulations, you've found one of the many reasons why this game is as pvp-centric as it is.

[Diyon]

In general, casters with AOE spells can defeat huge numbers of melee players in a PVP arena. But in the super-lopsided example you describe, the barbs will win in one of a few ways: either all use a thrower weapon at the same time, or Sprint Boost and come in from different directions trying to Trip.

Actually for best results, half would use each method.

Use stunning blow instead of trip, the example he used seems to indicate Air Savant III which trip won't work on.


But ya other than that, the Barbs would win at the very least by sheer numbers/probability.

[Sweyn]

Not if he got harried from all that dungeon alert.

[AMDarkwolf]

"you have angered many players...."


Pvp red alert... lol

[Xionanx]

Are you talking about PnP? If so then yes, any PREPARED lwizard or sorceror could wipe the floor with any number of barbarians.

If you are talking about DDO, then a single bowbarian would make short work of your piddly HP, much less 300 of them.

[NaturalHazard]

Not if all the Barbs have Lightning Strike throwers.

Also, you really don't understand how stacking works. A sorc can get 50% displacement, and +50% movement speed.

imagine the lag? let alone fitting 300 barbarians into the brawling pits where is the sorc going to run to? over the heads of all the barbs?

[Jarah]

I wonder about the mass instant-kill.
Wail has a fortitude save. What's a raged barbarians fort save again?
The long cooldown and short range of the spell would probably make it an one-use-only spell.
Used right before the sorcerer dies ...

But in the end, the lag monster eats them all before they can get close to each other. :p

[Chai]

One stun, trip, or crit and its over. One dead sorc, and one barbarian, standing on top of the pile of barbarian corpses who the sorc was able to kill before the now victorious barb decided to use a tactics feat. While this is being showcased, more barbarians are dying to the still ticking dots.

With hundreds of them in the area, the orc wouldnt be able to kite away from them all.

[Forgeborn]

Not if all the barbarian's use kormor's belt on the sorcerer, from 300 shots at least one should proc an irresistable dance, putting the sorcerer dead in the water.

[lugoman]

Not if they are Spartan barbarians.

[heyytoi]

I think so

60% displacement
100% fort
300% movement speed from things like expeditious retreat and shadow walk
aoe instakill (shock ball with metamagic feats on) on less than 2 second cooldown
the blink air savants get at third prestige

around 500 base hp
can heal self at the pace a pally can lay on hands

he could win without having to heal himself once, and maybe without getting hit once. He could probably win without even moving from his spawn and inch

i guess its realistic but you could also do something were the twelve disables some uses of magic in arena or something if you wanted the lore to be correct and pvp balanced


Spell

Absorbtion

Item

Ty for listenning


.

[Kmnh]

One barb with a power word kill scroll? Or even power word: stun? :)

[Grenada]

Depends, are all the barbs close together?

[protokon]

Inspiration to make this poster :)

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz19/lion6679/barbmotivation.png

[gerardIII]

60% displacement
300% movement speed from things like expeditious retreat and shadow walk


Stop posting on the forums and go back to leveling your lvl 3 sorcerer.

[fuzzy1guy]

If they all group up nicely. a good one/two aoe set would wipe them all out.


"calls down the lightning and fire from the sky upon those with a... stick to hit stuff."

Now don't make me say the word that kills you too... :D

[KingofDiamondz]

Could a Barbarian beat 300 sorcs in any arena in one round?

I think you have your answer sir

[Meetch1972]

300 barbs in one room? Isn't that critical mass for cloudkill? Most would probably die without the Sorc's help. :)

If they were all outdoors tho, and there were a stiff breeze, the sorc wouldn't have the benefit of the massive noxious cloud hanging over them...

[AMDarkwolf]

If half the barbs were dwarves, and the other half were dwarven thrower spec'ed, The barbs would own 300 wizards each :P

[Havok.cry]

This thread does not have enough drama please insult each other more! Thank you!

[loki_3369]

I think so

60% displacement
100% fort
300% movement speed from things like expeditious retreat and shadow walk
aoe instakill (shock ball with metamagic feats on) on less than 2 second cooldown
the blink air savants get at third prestige

around 500 base hp
can heal self at the pace a pally can lay on hands

he could win without having to heal himself once, and maybe without getting hit once. He could probably win without even moving from his spawn and inch

i guess its realistic but you could also do something were the twelve disables some uses of magic in arena or something if you wanted the lore to be correct and pvp balanced

I'd believe it... Assuming they were around level 4.

Tharne's.
Sprint Boost.
Natural 10% striding+30% item+35% sprint boost. (Don't worry, you're 40% is still cute).
Pale Lav.


One on one: A well played barb could kill a poorly played caster. A well played caster=god mode (unless a well played AA is thrown in >.>)

3-300 on one: Dead sorc is dead.

[Psiandron]

This thread does not have enough drama please insult each other more! Thank you!

You could always create a 2nd forum personna: 'War.Dogsof', and send him in to stir things up for you.


Oh yeah, and as uber as casters are in this game, my money's still on the 300 barbs in this one. That's going to be like what 150,000 hp with 300 saves for everything you do and its not going to take a lot of hits to whipe out your sorc's hps.

[protokon]

considering I can kill most casters 1 on 1 on my barb, who doesnt even have a spell absorption item, doubtful a caster could stand against 10 barbs let alone 300.

[powerclan]

considering I can kill most casters 1 on 1 on my barb, who doesnt even have a spell absorption item, doubtful a caster could stand against 10 barbs let alone 300.

Barbarians are indeed the most underestimated pvp'ers ingame. A well played barb can in fact defeat a well played sorcerer, and sure if the barb has spell absorption item.
Sorcerers aren't god mode, only Tukaw builds can be real good pvp'ers, for different reasons

AA vs Sorc: AA wins
Sorc vs Sorc: The first to icy prison/earthgrab/heat death wins.
Sorc vs Insightful reflex Wiz/monk: Wiz/monk wins

Sorcerers also die because of stupid spells like Trap the soul, a spell frenzied chain lightning from a lightning spec wizard, a kukan-do monk.
Main reason u see in any of this: insufficient saves/HP/DC.
Nuking is all they really got.
So 300 barbarians vs 1 sorcerer? I think almost any 2 lvl 20 barbarians would be sufficient, or maybe one.

[scottmike0]

Barbarians are indeed the most underestimated pvp'ers ingame. A well played barb can in fact defeat a well played sorcerer, and sure if the barb has spell absorption item.
Sorcerers aren't god mode, only Tukaw builds can be real good pvp'ers, for different reasons

AA vs Sorc: AA wins
Sorc vs Sorc: The first to icy prison/earthgrab/heat death wins.
Sorc vs Insightful reflex Wiz/monk: Wiz/monk wins

Sorcerers also die because of stupid spells like Trap the soul, a spell frenzied chain lightning from a lightning spec wizard, a kukan-do monk.
Main reason u see in any of this: insufficient saves/HP/DC.
Nuking is all they really got.
So 300 barbarians vs 1 sorcerer? I think almost any 2 lvl 20 barbarians would be sufficient, or maybe one.
don't forget the sorc/monk vs wiz monk in this case which ever has the ioun stone wins, so if sorc/monk has an ioun stone its auto win :0

[oradafu]

If all the barbarians were Occult Slayers and used Mind over Magic and Vanquish Magic, I think the barbarians would have a pretty fair shot at killing the Sorcerer with minimum casualties.

Of course, I;m sure the Devs will mess up the Occult Slayer when it's created so it becomes useless.

[GregorianPL]

this is impossible every barb will take throwing dagger hit you for 2 damage (it is xtreamly low) and u are dead so gl

[powerclan]

don't forget the sorc/monk vs wiz monk in this case which ever has the ioun stone wins, so if sorc/monk has an ioun stone its auto win :0

No, because if you do not make Tukaw (16 sorc/2 paladin/2 monk (or was it 2 rogue?)) the saves of the sorc will be insufficient to save the DC of a wizard.
Besides, a pale lavender ioun stone is the most OVERestimated item ever. It can be stripped easily, but is very nice to prtect you versus casters who jump down stun/dance. Or versus clerics or FvS who do not have a meteor swarm clicky.
I have a pale lavender ioun stone on my FvS/monk, it is nice, but overestimated by some.

Of course, you can frighten people with it who do not know it are spell LEVELS :D...

[Elixxer]

Oh my god, just let this thread die :D

[knightgf]

I hate to admit it, but this is the first PvP thread I've seen that actually seems useful to post in. That being said...

There's a lot of assumptions we would have to make. Some of them can be automatic, others manual. If you factor in lag, the sorcerer stands a 0% chance of winning. However, if you factor in only the acceptable or better lag, then he might stand a chance...

There's not much in the way of instant kill spells a sorcerer could use that are useful anyways...circle of death has both fort and will saves, saves that a barbarian are great against when raged. Then there's FoD, which just has a fort save. Even if you had trap the soul components, the will save is a bit of a issue. Wail of the Banshee could be a great way to get rid of a bunch of barbarians, but you would need a insanely high dc for it to be valuable, plus the risk is high.

Though truth be told, I think instant-kill spells are not the answer...nuke AoE spells are. While players can use deathward, FoM, protection from elements, resist energy, and other protections and resistances, no player that I can think of can make themselves totally immune to any element, even the elemental savants themselves. That being said, if it were me, and if i had time, id just set up firewalls first, acid rain, maybe a few glyphs and other traps as well. Then, when they're in range, just start spamming spells like crazy; ball lightning, chain lightning, and other spells that hit long, and spread. After that, when they start getting a bit close, prismatic spray and a few other short-but-not-quite spells would be used to try to keep some of them at bay. When it gets really close, wail, circle of death, and many other spells can be used.

One important thing is to never lose your escape path; if you do, its game over for the sorcerer. Sure, invisibility might help, if it ACTUALLY worked in PvP, but odds are, if the barbarians can bypass your displacement, they can see you invisible, so it 'probably' will not work, especially since the characters are all level 20. Assuming that the barbarians cannot use your dimensional door, you can use that as well if you need to escape and are not by the entrance. Keeping your distance from all barbarians is pretty much mandatory, as is moving, especially if the barbarians are throwing things at you as well as meleeing.

Overall, could 300 level 20 barbarians be toppled by one level 20 sorcerer? In theory, yes, but in reality, theres a 98.6% chance of failure.

[McFlay]

I think your theory about 300 barbs being stupid enough to run around through a bunch of nasty aoe spells until they die is a wonderful example of why a lot of people would like a little attention to pvp in this game.

In pvm, what you described would happen is perfectly legit. I'd agree with you that 1 sorc could wipe out 300 dumby ai barbs without getting a scratch.

In pvp though, people would just do what smart pvm players do. When they saw aoe effects they'd either just run around them or start chucking throwing weapons at the guy camping in the middle of them. Unless of course they had evasion and high saves, then they might play a littly more risky around aoe effects.

It's a shame they can't even do minor work on the portion of the game that let's you play against intelligent opponents rather then just generic attempts at making pvm more difficult like beefing blade damage in shroud or inflating mob hp.

[Miow]

Did a sorc kill you repeatedly in the pvp? There there it's gonna be okay...

[gloopygloop]

I think so

60% displacement
100% fort
300% movement speed from things like expeditious retreat and shadow walk
aoe instakill (shock ball with metamagic feats on) on less than 2 second cooldown
the blink air savants get at third prestige

around 500 base hp
can heal self at the pace a pally can lay on hands

he could win without having to heal himself once, and maybe without getting hit once. He could probably win without even moving from his spawn and inch

i guess its realistic but you could also do something were the twelve disables some uses of magic in arena or something if you wanted the lore to be correct and pvp balanced

A well played, well built, well geared Sorcerer could slaugter an enormous number of mediocre Barbarians given appropriate terrain.

A well played, well built, well geared Barbarian could slaughter an enormous number medicore Sorcerers given appropriate terrain.

Fundamentally, either side will win by getting in the first shot. The Sorcerer will generally have an easier time getting in the first shot, but that's really not any different from high level play in Pen and Paper D&D. Whoever gets in the first "hit" wins.

In fact, in Pen and Paper that's still true for casters starting even at relatively low levels. In Pathfinder, even more so.

[bennar]

I think so

60% displacement
100% fort
300% movement speed from things like expeditious retreat and shadow walk
aoe instakill (shock ball with metamagic feats on) on less than 2 second cooldown
the blink air savants get at third prestige

around 500 base hp
can heal self at the pace a pally can lay on hands

he could win without having to heal himself once, and maybe without getting hit once. He could probably win without even moving from his spawn and inch

i guess its realistic but you could also do something were the twelve disables some uses of magic in arena or something if you wanted the lore to be correct and pvp balanced

I don't even know what to say... Do you know anything about stacking in this game? And even if that was possible... All I say is True Seeing and Lighting Strike Throwing Weapon.

[heyytoi]

Snip....
only Tukaw builds can be real good pvp'ers

...




/laugh

You are a funny man!!

[~sumptingwong]

I doubt it unless all the barbarians were piking and did not have any ranged weapons, and even if they only had melee weapons they could just barbarian sprint boost to you and surround you

[AMDarkwolf]

Or run straight at the sorc in single file, eventually the sorc would run out of sp and a barb would smash him gud!

[enochianscholar]

it would be very hard for a sorc to even kill 2 barbs at the same time because 1 barb equals to atleast 700 hp fully raged by the time u kill him the other barb would reach ya n then stun=dead plus even 1 barb can kil the sorc if the barb has a mantel or a pale stone -_-

[powerclan]

/laugh

You are a funny man!!

Ok, now I have to laugh at you
Only Tukaw build SORCERERS can be good in pvp.

I got 2 toons good in pvp, and inside entire Ghallanda I know exactly ONE player that defeats both of them.
However I'm convinced when I hit the HP I want to hit with my FvS/Monk the battles will be moe equal again, the 800 HP I got atm isn't sufficient enough, YET.

So before u quote on all my replies trying to laugh at me bring a toon both My FvS/Monk and my Wiz/Monk cannot beat...

[heyytoi]

Ok, now I have to laugh at you
Only Tukaw build SORCERERS can be good in pvp.

I got 2 toons good in pvp, and inside entire Ghallanda I know exactly ONE player that defeats both of them.
However I'm convinced when I hit the HP I want to hit with my FvS/Monk the battles will be moe equal again, the 800 HP I got atm isn't sufficient enough, YET.

So before u quote on all my replies trying to laugh at me bring a toon both My FvS/Monk and my Wiz/Monk cannot beat...

Heh..

Don't get all worked up if you're not good enough to play you're own character :)

And asking for an unbeatable toon is just silly, there's no such thing. There is also no Ultimate pvp build. I'm fine with my fvs/monk, other people prefers arcane.. some play AA's..... It all depends on how you handle different situations. ATM PVP is pretty much super broken with the new arcane spells (black dragon bolt would be a good exemple). But hey!!!! I still enjoy it!!!!

All i'm saying is that you can't make a perfect pvp toon. Some are better than other but there's always a way to counter some build..

And i will continue to /laugh at people that thinks they know everything. *should be laughing at myself ah!!*

Anyway, long live PVP and forum hate!!!


PS: the entire population of Ghallanda do pvp? daaaam!!

[bhgiant]

Some things deserve to die quickly, nay, don't deserve to live long enough to annoy others for longer than is necessary to kill it. But then you get those pesky buggers that just. won't. die.

I am of course referring to the thread.

[Ravoc-DDO]

Of course the sorcerer would win. The barbarians are to dumb to avoid stepping into firewalls.

[Psiandron]

Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Di e!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die! Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Di e!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die! Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Di e!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die! Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Di e!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die! Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Di e!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die! Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Di e!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die! Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Di e!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die! Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Di e!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die! Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Di e!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die! Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Di e!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die! Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Di e!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die! Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Di e!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die! Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Di e!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die! Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Di e!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die! Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Di e!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die! Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Di e!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die! Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Di e!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die! Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Di e!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die! Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Di e!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!Die! Die!Die!Die!Die!Die!


what?

[enochianscholar]

Of course the sorcerer would win. The barbarians are to dumb to avoid stepping into firewalls.


lol u cant firewall in pvp -_-

[powerclan]

Heh..

Don't get all worked up if you're not good enough to play you're own character :)

And asking for an unbeatable toon is just silly, there's no such thing. There is also no Ultimate pvp build. I'm fine with my fvs/monk, other people prefers arcane.. some play AA's..... It all depends on how you handle different situations. ATM PVP is pretty much super broken with the new arcane spells (black dragon bolt would be a good exemple). But hey!!!! I still enjoy it!!!!

All i'm saying is that you can't make a perfect pvp toon. Some are better than other but there's always a way to counter some build..

And i will continue to /laugh at people that thinks they know everything. *should be laughing at myself ah!!*

Anyway, long live PVP and forum hate!!!


PS: the entire population of Ghallanda do pvp? daaaam!!

I advice you at learn to read before you comment, there is no such thnig as someone who knows what a text contains before hearing or reading it. I said I only KNOW one player, not that there only is one player.

May I give you an advice? If you have a FvS/Monk for pvp, and he has troubles with surviving bdb, REROLL.
Of course there is no such thing as an ultimate pvp build, if there was, would I have challenged you to bring a build that defeats all my toons ;-)

I do not pretend to have ultimate pvp knowledge, I'm still learning alot, and all I try to do on the forums is hleping people solve minor pvp problems, and help them with a first pvp build that is not as gear dependant as some other pvp builds are, and it seems that some people like you do not appreciate that, well, get over it.
Stop just replying on what I said without adding something useful, I do not say u can't make a joke of something I reply, but I think u took small parts of everything I ever wrote on the forum and mixed them together to make it look something totally different. I might should do the same to show it, but I do not intend to act as childish as you do

Have a nice day

[heyytoi]

I advice you at learn to read before you comment, there is no such thnig as someone who knows what a text contains before hearing or reading it. I said I only KNOW one player, not that there only is one player.

May I give you an advice? If you have a FvS/Monk for pvp, and he has troubles with surviving bdb, REROLL.
Of course there is no such thing as an ultimate pvp build, if there was, would I have challenged you to bring a build that defeats all my toons ;-)

I do not pretend to have ultimate pvp knowledge, I'm still learning alot, and all I try to do on the forums is hleping people solve minor pvp problems, and help them with a first pvp build that is not as gear dependant as some other pvp builds are, and it seems that some people like you do not appreciate that, well, get over it.
Stop just replying on what I said without adding something useful, I do not say u can't make a joke of something I reply, but I think u took small parts of everything I ever wrote on the forum and mixed them together to make it look something totally different. I might should do the same to show it, but I do not intend to act as childish as you do

Have a nice day

If you we're not making all these untrue comments about what is best for pvp and what not i would not reply into these pvp threads.

**reminder**


Snip....
only Tukaw builds can be real good pvp'ers

...



You're fault buddy!

And yes i should definitly reroll.. Being PVP spec is stupid!!

Have a bad day!!

[powerclan]

i should i definitly reroll.


To remind you how u cut and paste my quotes

[heyytoi]

To remind you how u cut and paste my quotes

Thank you!

[DrNuegebauer]

I didn't read the whole thread, I know it's old and all but to answer the original question:



YES - a sorcerer CAN beat a 300hp barbarian in any arena in one round.



Wait - what?

[MRH]

299 distractions in the front of the sorc...... while the 1 sneaks up from behind and bashes his head in.....:eek:

[knightgf]

Would it be a lose if the sorcerer teleported out or would it be a draw?

[MrWizard]

well, I know a wizard can.
A wizard has intelligence.

All he has to do is tell the barbarians in the room that the guy who can hit the other guys hardest gets shiney magical helmet and elixer to make him stronger.

Then after all of them kill each other, the one standing, almost dead, gets hit by a lightning bolt and dies..

wizard 300, barbarians 0

[Yajerman01]

/laugh

You are a funny man!!

I concur with your thought.

[Yajerman01]

only Tukaw builds can be real good pvp'ers, for different reasons


I am going to take a stab at this quote. And I think I understand what Made is saying and why he is laughing (you have to get through his outrageous thick Quebecian accent :)). The fact that your stating that "Tukaw's builds"... can be real good pvper's... is simply stating that by having that type of build makes anyone a good pvper is a tragic misnomar. Tukaw's build is a good pvping build because of Tukaw, period. I know a few Tukaw-like builds on our server and quite frankly they suck, not necessarily because of the build but because of the players playing them.

If that was not your intention of your statement, then I stand corrected; however, your statement is clear and unambiguous.

[PeWBOOMPeW]

snip
May I give you an advice? If you have a FvS/Monk for pvp, and he has troubles with surviving bdb, REROLL
snip

You can survive about 400 damage every two seconds along with the other damage? h4x! But one crit with a major lore..adios amigo!

[powerclan]

You can survive about 400 damage every two seconds along with the other damage? h4x! But one crit with a major lore..adios amigo!

I'ma ignore your comment and guess u never heard of acid absorption...
*EDIT*: I decided to explain it to you: it means I only get hit 60% of regular damage, minus 30 from res, minus 120 if it's first hit.

[gloopygloop]

I'ma ignore your comment and guess u never heard of acid absorption...
*EDIT*: I decided to explain it to you: it means I only get hit 60% of regular damage, minus 30 from res, minus 120 if it's first hit.

Your calculations are incorrect.

All subtraction takes place in damage mitigation before any percent reduction from absorbtion or dungeon scaling.

Your 30 (or 120) is taken off first and then your absorbtion is applied.

Also, your 60% is incorrect. You don't add up the absorbtion to get the final percentage. You multiply the percentages together.

0.9 * 0.85 * 0.8 = 61.2%

It's not a big difference with just a Shroud absorbtion item, but it makes a HUGE difference with a couple of stacking Fire Shield effects and a Fire or Cold absorbtion item.

[Yvonnel-1]

could someone plz, PLEASE shut this useless and mindblasted thread finally?

id rank it in the most useless created ever place 1 to 20 at least!!!

[powerclan]

I am going to take a stab at this quote. And I think I understand what Made is saying and why he is laughing (you have to get through his outrageous thick Quebecian accent :)). The fact that your stating that "Tukaw's builds"... can be real good pvper's... is simply stating that by having that type of build makes anyone a good pvper is a tragic misnomar. Tukaw's build is a good pvping build because of Tukaw, period. I know a few Tukaw-like builds on our server and quite frankly they suck, not necessarily because of the build but because of the players playing them.

If that was not your intention of your statement, then I stand corrected; however, your statement is clear and unambiguous.

Heytoi would be correct if I actually made that quote. He took the quote out of a post where a 20 sorc asked how to gear up well for pvp, I replied: For sorcerers, only tukaw builds can be real good pvp'ers. But he just cut the 'for sorcerers' and changed it slightly.
That's where Heytoi is incorrect

The reason why only tukaw sorcerers can be good sorcerer pvp'ers is due to saves. The saves of the other builds are that poor that a wizard simply hypno, TTS etc. a monk simply kukan-do's. A ranger could kill a regular sorc all day etc.
So whatever Heytoi quote's of me: do not believe it, it is probably untrue

[powerclan]

Your calculations are incorrect.

All subtraction takes place in damage mitigation before any percent reduction from absorbtion or dungeon scaling.

Your 30 (or 120) is taken off first and then your absorbtion is applied.

Also, your 60% is incorrect. You don't add up the absorbtion to get the final percentage. You multiply the percentages together.

0.9 * 0.85 * 0.8 = 61.2%

It's not a big difference with just a Shroud absorbtion item, but it makes a HUGE difference with a couple of stacking Fire Shield effects and a Fire or Cold absorbtion item.

My 60% was an average. I didn't make the sum because that would give 55%

One more mistake he made: bdb doesn't hit 400 on a regular hit, but only like 250.
Minus 30 that is 220, with 61% of it left that makes like 130, maybe slightly more.
Not really a reason to be in danger...

[Llewndyn]

Of course a sorcerer could kill 300 barbarians. Lay down a maximized, empowered fire trap and stand on the other side of it. Barbarians LOVE traps!

[96th_Malice]

If you are talking about DDO, then a single bowbarian would make short work of your piddly HP, much less 300 of them.

Yup old school bowbarian and epic thornlord kills faster than my AA with Trip neg bow and slayers.

[zex95966]

yeah a well played sorc can kill a barb with 300 hp.

___________

*re-reads title*


Ohhhhhhhh....

[PeWBOOMPeW]

26d3*(1+1.2(ED and sorc capstone, i'm guessing it goes here)+.5(Enhancements))*(2.5(Max and Empower)
26d3 is average 52. 52*2.7=140.4*2.5=351. Not quite my 400, but it can go higher with decent damage rolls.
Crits are 21%, x2.75. 3 ticks, after two full bdb's one tick is likely to crit.


On a side note, why would you make an acid absorb GS? That is almost never useful except in pvp. Those ings could be used for far more useful things.
On a side side note, my 18 sorc/2monk can hit 33 reflex self buffed, and with Holy aura and recitation its 39 iirc, lucky cape from my fellow arti's brings it up to 40.

[DrawingGuy]

I think so

60% displacement
100% fort
300% movement speed from things like expeditious retreat and shadow walk
aoe instakill (shock ball with metamagic feats on) on less than 2 second cooldown
the blink air savants get at third prestige

around 500 base hp
can heal self at the pace a pally can lay on hands

he could win without having to heal himself once, and maybe without getting hit once. He could probably win without even moving from his spawn and inch

i guess its realistic but you could also do something were the twelve disables some uses of magic in arena or something if you wanted the lore to be correct and pvp balanced

Ahh, makes me think of this time doing an elite Reaver Fate. Someone needed to tank him until all the skulls were lit, and the monk volunteered stating that he was "an easy heal as he had over 700% healing amp". Can't even begin to think what math got him that number, or he thought the exaggeration made him sound cool.

However, never, I'll PVP your lvl 20 Sorc 1v1 against my lvl 20 Barb any day. And that's with my barb being first life and very poorly geared (no epic gear, no t3 GS, no cannith weapons).

[TheDjinnFor]

In general, casters with AOE spells can defeat huge numbers of melee players in a PVP arena. But in the super-lopsided example you describe, the barbs will win in one of a few ways: either all use a thrower weapon at the same time, or Sprint Boost and come in from different directions trying to Trip.

Yup.

I used to PvP all the time on a melee barbarian for kicks, and throwers are half the reason why I could win against ranged characters. Not that throwers themselves could kill anything, but they were an amazing distraction that required them to constantly be healing themselves instead of hitting me.

That and I'd only ever PvP in house D, which is inherently favorable to melee characters.

[StableKobold]

Spell

Absorbtion

Item

Ty for listenning


.

Yea!Haha,+1.
Anyways,Barbs not gotta hold anything spicel;
Lets say it`s even a one barb.
You stand at stash,I come to you tho the creats up there,Even without spell absoration,With sprint boost and such-You have 3 seconds to cast a spell.Afew options.
mass hold-Not a bad choice.hay brow,You forgot i`m a warfoge.
Wail:Oh oh.Sorry.70 fortitude save.Oops.
Magic missle:Gets my spell absorb-Tho-I hav`nt saw anybody scoring more then 700 at 1 MM ; )
Power word kill:DW googles,Or any DB item.And cya in hell
Summon monster:Sorry,You`re tripped with GS greataxe doing around 700 demage per swing b4 you end casting it.
Meteor swarm:Afew options.Maybe fire absoration,Maybe the fact that till all the swarm will come i`ll be there,or maybe sometimes it`s 2 low demage.You can also count on that i got afew HPs right there.Thats your best choice.
Neg level:Warfoge-Screw you.
Stoneskin:700-10=690,Thats only the trip.And i also assume we all got Min II greataxe.
Some wierdows would may pick iresistable dance.Yea,Thats an other option that would help you.Ways to avoid it:
1)Spell absorb
2)Some ranged atacks
3)Thats a low range spell.When you`ll cast it i`ll dance for 8 secs,You tripped for 30,Means 22 secs.Kabyum all over your face baby.
Sorry mate-1 barb can get most of sorcys.Spell absorb surely help,But even it is not a must.All you need to have is a brustly 700 HP or over/Evasion,afew immunetys,And a decent DPS.

[Habreno]

Got two replies to your 700-hp WF barb:

Debuff, Polar Ray.

[MrWizard]

not sure if I mentioned this earlier, but its called quicken and mass charm, persuasion, and grease....

great fun.

or if going bad, teleport or ddoor to confuse them

[dredre9987]

But who is gonna buff all the barbs????? O_o

[porq]

Are these 300 barbarians from Sparta?

[BitkaCK2]

This thread is irrelevant to my interests however, yes a level 20 sorc can kill 300 level 1 barbs in one round.

http://www.myfacewhen.com/images/142.jpg

bitkaCK2

[StableKobold]

Got two replies to your 700-hp WF barb:

Debuff, Polar Ray.

Spell absorb.Trip.

[StableKobold]

not sure if I mentioned this earlier, but its called quicken and mass charm, persuasion, and grease....

great fun.

or if going bad, teleport or ddoor to confuse them

Grease is fun,But it`ll yet take awhlie and i`ll be standing there and on you.Maybe the main tactic shall be Grease+MM<Spell absorb off>+Iresistable dance+Your choice of DPS spell.

[MrWizard]

Grease is fun,But it`ll yet take awhlie and i`ll be standing there and on you.Maybe the main tactic shall be Grease+MM<Spell absorb off>+Iresistable dance+Your choice of DPS spell.

i think when I charm or persuade you and about 20 others, you will be fighting the other 280 barbarians as I cast grease and keep charming. Eventually there will only be few of you.

[Eighnuss]

If you havin' pvp problems, i feel bad for you son
i got 99 problems but a sorc ain't one

[RedDragonScale]

Not even with Mangar's Mindblade.

[StableKobold]

i think when I charm or persuade you and about 20 others, you will be fighting the other 280 barbarians as I cast grease and keep charming. Eventually there will only be few of you.

Well,I`m not speaking about PnP.About PnP,Yea,At PvPs a well prepered wizard or sorcy can rock-But thats DDO,And they <Sadly?> made melee charters a bit stronger<Not enough if you ask me> for PvPs.You cant charm-SO yet there is a chance.At the stash,yea,You can kill from distance.At the wayward?Well,I was starting the describe,But whats going on Argo,Stays on argo!

[Dendrix]

300 20th level barbarians with plain +5 bows, with normal arrows.

1 in 20 miss your AC as they roll a 1.
0 miss from displacement as they are all wearing Tharnes goggles and have true seeing.
Average Damage: 1D8+5 (9.5)

300 * 9.5 * 0.95 = 2707 damage.

They kill you 5 times over before you finish casting your spells.

if you take away tharnes goggles from them all they do 1353 damage and still triviall kill you before you finish casting your spell.

[StableKobold]

300 20th level barbarians with plain +5 bows, with normal arrows.

1 in 20 miss your AC as they roll a 1.
0 miss from displacement as they are all wearing Tharnes goggles and have true seeing.
Average Damage: 1D8+5 (9.5)

300 * 9.5 * 0.95 = 2707 damage.

They kill you 5 times over before you finish casting your spells.

if you take away tharnes goggles from them all they do 1353 damage and still triviall kill you before you finish casting your spell.

300 level 1 barbs:each wear +2 throwing hammer- thats 1d6+2<modifier>+7<str>=avrage 12 per.not counting crits.
12*300*0.95=~3400.Leve 1 barbs.Oh oh,Yea,Displacement?thats 1700.Stoneskin?1500.Sorry brow.And those are level 1!barbs.level 20 means +40 str,for 3+5<modifier,Not counting elemental>+40<str>=48*300=14940.~7500,7300.Yea,7300 HP.Good luck with that brow.

[StableKobold]

Unless that caster got some DR trinket<VoN4>-That`ll might save him from the level 1 some,<Calced for 840 demage-Any sorcerer have this amount of HP?if yes,He might have the chance to servive....Post a myddo link>But the level 20 some wont really be effected....Maximum for the level 1`s-Go rage =P and get 50 guys to go trip that sorcy.

[Forzah]

Can we finally close this way beyond stupid thread? :p A single sorc already has a difficult time beating one good barb (at least, I can beat almost all of em). Air savant is the only sorc PrE that really has an edge due to the immunity to knockdown. 300 barbs... no chance.

[Dendrix]

I've seen this kind of thing time and time again, when some caster or other thinks that they can destroy many other classes.

They always want perfect setups that favor them.
They never want the opponents to have "reasonable" gear.
They always seem to forget about massive ranged damage.

[StableKobold]

not bad,+1.